[This message has been edited by MIDIROEL (edited 12-07-2005).]

Why such poor sound quality ?

Arno,

what is that instrument.. ? what brand and what does it do.. ?

SPAM.

Whats New.
See previous posts.

[This message has been edited by MIDIROEL (edited 12-07-2005).]

You are spamming this Forum and your english sucks (your sense of humor too).

[This message has been edited by MIDIROEL (edited 12-07-2005).]

Domenico, you are really pathetic...

It's an interesting video, but what exactly is going on? The player is hitting all kinds of buttons and doing what looks like cool things, but there is no explanation on features he is showcasing.

Also, why can't you take the audio output from the keyboard and go right in to the camera? If people see this they are not going to be impressed with the audio quality which is exactly what is going to sell this board, not the # of pretty buttons.

Why can't we get a decent demo from Lionstracs?

Al

I logged on just to say what Al said.
Amen! Ditto! etc.

Through the camera's internal mic, it doesn't sound too good and it is probably a lot better than that.
Also a commentary would be nice
Theodore

It's certainly a very cool looking (and well lit) keyboard. All you need is a flight wheel and you're sitting behind the seat of a 747. Seriously it's like a 747 dash board with keys

I think the board looks great. Features are impressive too. However like others stated, the sound quality of the video was quite poor.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-06-2005).]

This may be a great Keyboard, but you could never tell from this Demo. After 13
min I had to turn it off. All I learned from
the Demo is that the Board can count to 4.
I have seen Horses ans Dogs do the same thing. Kidding aside this Demo does nothing
about informing us of the features of this
Keyboard.
Bruce

I watched the Video myself .....although a very interesting concept of which I always embrace new technology with an open mind.
In the right application it could possibly do marvelous things........Small companies cannot compete with the big boyz but that dosnt mean they are not efficient. Like anything else it needs to be experienced buy the User/customer themself versus maybe a somewhat premature demo.......things are changing fast in the Music Scene & this KB is part of it with many inovative features that at this time are not mainstream......
I await more prgress from Liontracks in the future for sure.

[This message has been edited by MIDIROEL (edited 12-07-2005).]

After listening some demo's om the liontracks site i have one conclusion,it sounds like an old casio keyboard, the newer sound much better.
I am sorry, just my opinion

Arno,

MIDIROEL,
considering what Arno wrote above about the sound, check this out:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010918-2.html

go to page 2

it is an older discussion, in which you also took part...I recommended some simple things on the second page back then, 5 months have passed, and still you are trying to showcase the sound of a high end keyboard through what seems to be the built-in camera microphone.

Imagine trying to convince someone to give you a good job, and going to the interview with stained clothes, unbathed and with a 3 day stubble. You will not have a chance.

Ever seen a dirty Alfa Romeo in a display? They shine them every day. Guess why.

Get a pair of RCA cables for God's sake.
Theodore


[This message has been edited by trident (edited 12-06-2005).]

SPAM

MIDIROEL, aka D........

I watched this video till the end. I thought the instrument played OK. I could not figure out what it was playing - seemed like it could only play MIDI files, with some right-hand sounds over top (not the styles).

However, I want to give Mediastation the benefit of the doubt. When will there be one of these instruments at my local dealer?

If you are not planning to have a wide dealers's network, I will agree to try one for, say, 30 days, with no questions asked return and postage paid both ways.

This way I could evaluate the real capabilities of this instrument not by the way it sounds in a cheezy video, but by trying out tis actual features.

Regards,
Alex

[This message has been edited by MIDIROEL (edited 12-07-2005).]

What a adult reaction,we better ignore such answers.

Arno.

Nigel,
is it possible to remove this guy?
Maybe give him a warning first?
This, 'scuce my French, dork contributes to the downfall of the zone.
Thankyou!

Geez oh man, if you want to help the sales of this keyboard, at least learn to be decent to potential customers. Maybe it's just the mix up of your english translastions, but your humor is not funny, it's actually quite offensive.

Seriously, members here would be more than happy to give this board the thumbs up. Just provide something of good quality that we can watch or hear. We're all excited about the "New Improved Lemony Fresh" keyboards being released today. However, don't insult your potential customers.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-07-2005).]

what did he say.. ? Oh my god..he's spamming...YO DUDE STOP !!

did he swear.. ?

I will just ignore all future posts from this person.
DonM

Or perhaps that was the reply to my question of when Mediastation is coming to the dealers where we can try it for ourselves.

Nigel probably erased the text - just a guess !

but did he swear ? what a creep...this is a very cool forum and i'm fully enjoying it...please nigel and other administrators, do not allow these weird creeps who have nothing in common with music to mess up this cool athmosphere !

I'm sorry but I don't get it. I've got to defend Dominic and Liontracks. Both Dominic and Liontracks heve heard nothing but grief and sarcasim every since they introduced their product. It is obvious that they are a low budget operation trying to make a go of it. Also maybe they are better computer people than they are marketing people.

Many of us would love to have an arranger completly upgradable by software. An arranger that could use any of the excellent samples available commercially. It was exactly that premise that convinced me to purchase a Ketron X1. Unfortunately Ketron abandoned the X1 and reniged on their promise. I hope Liontracks puts all of them out of business.

I can understand Dominic's attitude. He and his company IMO were never givin a fair chance.

At least Squeak and Donny have keep their minds open and the snide comments out of their posts.

I don't want to keep worshiping at the thrown of Yamaha or any of the rest of them. They are milking us everytime they introduce a new product that is nothing more than the old product with a couple of features that they could have included on the prior model.

Let's wish Liontracks all the success in the world.

Tom

Tom, I hope the technology succeeds also, but I could never buy something from a person who has presented himself and his company in such a childish manner.
DonM

I agree wholeheartedly with every word you say, Tom.
This is why Yamaha never got my money for the Ty2, which, after several visits to my local music store, I find is nothing more than a teeny improvement over Ty 1.
However, this MIDIROEL only makes matters worse for LT.

Tom, I agree with giving a chance and all that and lease add me to Squeak and Donny as a supporter to the whole Mediastation concept but there is a certain way to conduct business, and Lionstracs or Domenico or whoever is posting here, is not aware of that.

As you said, they are perhaps more computer persons than a marketing persons and we know there is a huge difference between the two.

As I stated in a heated discussion in August, regarding a kind of offer "Mediastation for styles" that Domenico wrote about, IMHO Domenico was not the right person to represent the company, at least in this forum and in writing and in the English language, regardless if he owned the company or not. Too hot tempered, too protective to his "brainchild" the Mediastation, too deaf to realise what is constructive criticism trying to help and what is just written with the purpose of bashing his product/company/him. Please take a look at my posts in
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/010918-2.html and you'll see what I mean.

Apart from very few, most of the guys here simply stated that they would like to try the keyboard in person so they could evaluate, and they asked for better quality demos, they simply got answers like "you can't realise the arranger revolution going on, you are not good enough to judge me or my product, etc"

In a old book for sales I read once (those pocket "100 ways to sell" things), they tried to be humorous and wrote "Try to see the General Manager directly, don't see the accountant, because after you sell the idea to the accountant, he will have to sell it himself to the General Manager, and if accountants could sell, they wouldn't be accountants, they would be salesmen"

Now substitute the word "accountant" with "engineer".

IMHO, everything Domenico said in this forum was coming from the lips of an accountant/engineer/programmer, and that was his problem. Mediastation may be good enough, maybe brilliant, but he can't present it the right way. People here still wait for demos with acceptable sound. If they like it, and they think it will enhance their show and bring money to their pockets/families, they will buy it. Domenico seems to not realise that.

Sorry for the length of my post, I'll slung back to my hole now,
Theodore

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 12-08-2005).]

Take a look at Wersi OAS instruments, as they introduced the software upgradeable computer based OAS keyboards in 2000, original ones using OAS 2 and now all new instruments run OAS 7, with the updates for existing users due out shortly. (A more advanced jump in quality then the upgrade from OAS 4 to OAS 5, which itself was a major update and the coming of age of the OAS software)
The fact that Wersi instruments are now 5 years old, and still capable of being upgraded in to a virtually new instrument, proves that the software based keyboard (Which also now includes Korg oasis and Liontracs) is viable.

Bill

Bill,the Wersi may be an excellent keyboard, (they also have complaints, i read a terrible story on the net how a person was badly treated by them)but i have heard it said many times that it is soooo expensive,the way i see it is Liontracs is doing something very similar for a much cheaper price,and i think with perseverence they will get there,but their attitude does need to change for the better.mike

Hi friends and hello Mike!

Sorry, for the some last little bit hard words.
I know, it was a little bit hard......ok excuse me!
That's the point, that I have deleted all! ;-)

BUT........IF anybody don't want to give always comments like "shitt" , Domenico will post here again positive, nice and sympathic!

Mike, you mean this story of a customer, who had bought a Wersi?

Just now, read this:
http://www.mercy-no-wersi.com/

It's also in english language.
This is official in internet.

Cheers and have fun.

Yes I agree Wersi are quite expensive, and this has always been the case since the company started in about 1969, however there products in most cases have been so far in front of the competition (And even the early instruments were upgradeable) that people have always been prepared to pay a premium.
Interestingly as the new upgrades have been fitted, the price of the instruments since the new team took over about 2 years ago has not increased, (Unlike most manufactures) so the difference in price between Wersi and other manufactures is reducing, also if you look at the price the original Wersi owners have paid to upgrade to the 2005 versions, this has only been a small amount, compared to the losses made by others who had to trade in their instruments for new versions, (2 or 3 times in some cases over the same period of time) so in the long term the Wersi instruments work out cheaper.
One of the reasons I think Wersi are more expensive then Lionstracs, is because as they were developed in the late nineties, the only operating system available to them was Windows (The open source operating system Linux was around, but in such a limited state that it could not at the time be used as the basis for a keyboard, whereas when the Mediastation was developed the Linux software was more developed and so could be used) which meant paying license fees to Microsoft.
Regarding the apparent bad treatment of a particular customer, it has been well known in Wersi and other circles as well as being featured on many other forums, and if you read all the posts (Including between the lines) it is not as clear cut as it seems.
I myself reserve judgment at present, (Although as it has been going on for 18 months or so, its about time it was sorted) as since the new team took over things have improved a lot, (I have also met them at the various festivals) so am prepared at this moment in time to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Bill

Yes Midiroel,that was the story.
Bill i am not condemning, i am reflecting on what has been said in the past,i agree that Abacus is a highly praised keyboard,others have said they were concerned about windows operating system possible bugs or crashes.
All products have market leaders,look at Rolls Royce,at one time they were the most expensive car in the world,and people associated rolls as the best,so people tend to pay extra for the privelidge of "having the best" now that is not maybe true.
I am sure that the wersi is an excellent keyboard,but i also think that if they want to take more of a market share,then they must reduce their profits and reduce their prices.Maybe they would not be able to supply the demand if they cut prices. Liontracs on the other hand is doing a similar product at a cheaper price,they could steal a large part of wersi business, providing they straighten themselves out,mike

All I have to say is that I am VERY impressed with the Mediastation X76. I'd love to have one myself, but I know my wife/financial advisor would skin me alive for spending that amount of money on one of these puppies.

I love the design and layout of the Mediatation. Something about the cosmetic look of that board is very appealing to me.

Having DSL internet I've been able to listen and see the demos. I think that even though they sound may be a bit gritty, the overall quality is quite good. Also the power behind this beast isn't just the preset voices, but what all can be loaded into via software That's where the power is in this baby. Too bad there's no place to try them in my area.

Squeak

so i guess the theme to take from the Abacus story is that Mediastation is not as bad as them ??

UMMMMMM.....interesting marketing angle ..
You might want to rethink that one midiroel!! ( by the way thats just my hummour dont take offense)

If any of you read my posts regarding the Mediastation (yes I had one) you'll realise just how bad this instrument was and how Domenico tried to defend his company after selling me faulty goods.
Maybe if they spent more time trying to make something that worked instead of rushing pre production products out and acting childish on here with lame comments to me they would be able to compete with the bigger brands, until then they can keep their expensive toys.
The Mediastation caused me nothing but grief for well over a month! By the way the poor demos on their web site actually show the true sound of the instrument. If you want an arranger stay clear of this as it is not for arranger use. It does have huge potential, if only someone bigger could take the technology and make it work for them instead. I think another company is doing this, my guess is General Music (GEM), but this is NOT definite it's only a guess on my part. Who knows ? Is anyone bothered on here lol

Mediastation would get a lot of boost if someone like Nigel, George Kaye, UD, Dnj, Scott, you know the main characters here in the board have tried it and put their stamp of approval. Not even one has tried it on their own. Maybe one guy I remember a posted saying something very positive - sorry could not remember who.

If say Nigel or one of the guys tried it and liked it - you know it carries a lot of weight than some dude we don't know very well.

lukitoh the main posters on here have more sense than to try it after reading all the posts about it.
As I stated earlier and a few months ago, I purchased the top model (£2600 so not cheap) and it was shockingly bad.
Fair enough it had some faults on arrival (later found to be Domenico's fault as he had built it up wrong or something like that) but when it worked the sounds and styles were no better than a Casio or Yamaha PSR I could have picked up for a couple of hundred quid.
I was hoping the sounds used on the demos on Lionstracs site were old pre production stuff but nope, it does sound like that when you sit down and play one. It brings tears to your eyes especially when you see your bank balance and what you have in return.
Dom is always updating stuff for it which seems to be something to correct a fault, which then leads to yet another fault so it never ends. I even had to reformat mine on Dom's instructions after only 3 days because it was so bad. You do not expect to have to do something like this in such a short time!
All I can say is that if you are considering one, do not purchase without seeing one. This means you will have to go to Lionstracs in Italy or since they are popular in Lebanon you could pay them a visit lol
I doubt you will ever see any in the UK since Domenico is refusing to sell them to this country after a couple of people complained back to him that he had sold them faulty goods (Doms words here not mine).
Potential buyers beware, do not fall for the sales pitch and the promise that this is the do all and end all of all keyboards like I did as it is certainly not.
On a more positive side, Dom did refund me without me having to get the Euroepan trading standards onto him who I'd actually got waiting to act on my behalf so they are good in that respect. Also the potential for this keyboard is there if only someone larger could invest some serious money into making everything work inside it. As it stands I think they are shipping these when they should still be in the production and checking stages.
If you want to pay £2600 to be a Guinea pig for Lionstracs then go ahead.

I've just heard all the newer demos posted on Lionstracs site
http://www.lionstracs.com/site/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=37&catid=37&Itemid=59

They go from bad to worse in my opinion. Nice to see a different demonstrator, but this one seems to look totally baffled or he's trying not to fall asleep at the keyboard. Does he actually know how the instrument works?
Take a listen to their rendition of the Titanic, ahhhhhhhhhh I'd be ashamed to post something this bad. How on earth can someone want to buy one of these after listening to all of the poor demos, I can't believe that Lionstracs are still posting bad demos even after the new sounds and styles have been done for them (Groove Park was it). If this is the new quality Dom you told me I would be missing out on by getting a refund, then I'm delighted I sent it back to you 'cause I have missed out on nothing.
Long live my TYROS 2 and the others I have!

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 12-11-2005).]

hi everybody!
Everything what i read now is a very Interesting
But i would like to ask Mister professional - Craig_UC (as i see so many nice words about this MS)
Why Tyros 2 is better then Mediastation x-76?
I saw all the videos too and i do not think that is so bad. In the video of the 30 mins the MS was played with out bugs and it seems a very stable OS. I saw that they can play GiGA files and VST Plugs too.
Is the Tyros 2 able to play in the same way?
May you record some video and shown as how you can play better?
( If you really a performer, i hope you have no shame of shown something)
Regards

Did I ever say the Tyros 2 was better than the Mediastation - NO I DID NOT

Do you also think I would go to the expense of paying for someone to video me and upload it professionally onto a site just to keep the minority (1 person) entertained - NOPE

If you like the Mediastation so much then go and buy one.

Tyros 2 doesn't do VST or Giga. I couldn't care less as my PC and MAC caters for those instead. The Mediastation didn't load 99% of VST plugins I have anyway so what use is that?

As for MR Professional or whatever you put yes I do play professionally and I don't intend wasting my time replying to you anymore. The Mediastation for me was poor, for others I am sure it will fill all of their needs if Lionstracs have got it working now.
This is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions whether good or bad. It would be a sad place and nobody would bother with Synthzone if we all agreed on the same points LOL

By the way do you happen to be the person playing on the new demos I wonder?

There are lots of ways the company can do it. They can let these people try it out for couple of weeks to see its potential without spending any money and their endorsements would carry a lot of weight at least on this board, right ?

Or maybe, have a workshop setup at places like DanO or George K. Instead of putting out lots of postings and bad demos defending the products.

Totally agree lukitoh.
Domenico, if you still read and post on this site, as I suspect you do but more than likely under a different name, why don't you take these posters up on their suggestions?
They are all sensible suggestions and surely you could arrange something with the people who own music shops on here?
You've only managed to branch out fully into the Lebanese market by the sounds of things you told me on Yahoo, surely you'd love to try and win over the European, Asia and American markets?
Everyone knows by now that I don't like the Mediastation because of the faults and poor quality sounds/styles it had when I purchased it. Everyone also is aware by now that since it's software based it can easily be updated sooner or later to contain better sounds and styles and a more reliable operating system that you can rely on in a live situation rather than studio use.
We all know that in the right hands, software arrangers are the way the future will go and I for one look forward to it.

However, I'd like to know why Lionstracs seem to be holding back all of the time?
People are going blue on here holding their breath as they want to know all about the Mediastation and what it can and can't do. They also need somewhere to view it and can't fly to Italy just to see one, although I know you'd make them welcome.
I appreciate that money will come into things especially when marketing this sort of product, but what about some sort of joint venture? Get another company who specialises in marketing to do it for you?

To sum up, I had a very bad experience with the Mediastation and it has taken me ages to get over it, simple as that. Domenico however was a decent enough person and did spend time over the net trying to sort out the faults I was experiencing, so thumbs up to him there. Some shops would have told me Tough, you purchased it so you're stuck with it.
The demos definitely need working on and something with the quality you hear from the likes of Roland/Korg/Yamaha really should be posted as the ones on the web site do no favours in my opinion when it comes to selling this product. The piano demos if they are still on by Andy from the UK are the best to listen to.
I really wish Dom all the best and hope that this instrument can get everything working together asap. At least he's had the courage to compete with the established brands and he's trying to bring out technology that is the future of the arranger world. I know Wersi are also doing stuff similar to this but there's more features on the Mediastation and it's cheaper.
Glad thats all off my chest now lol someone feel free to bite my head off