.....then run away !

Now, please.

Sheesh .... I can't believe people are really bashing our GREAT host and friend!
Man, oh man .... just go away and complain to someone else!

I LOVE it here and I trust Nigel's patience and input in EVERY instance. It's HIS court....HIS ball ..... if you don't like it - you don't have to play. In fact, many of us ( ME included ) would rather you DIDN'T !

Nigel ... YOU ROCK!
Stay focused, my friend. You are loved and appreciated. I for one, NEED this place.
Fondly,
Uncle Dave

[This message has been edited by Uncle Dave (edited 10-10-2007).]

Thanks for your very kind support Dave. I just try the best I can but I really don't like to rule with a heavy hand cos I think people should be able to talk freely without thinking someone is continually looking over their shoulder making sure everything they say is politically correct.

There is enough restriction online without me adding to it.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-14-2007).]

Nigel,

What REALLY impresses me lately, is that the site has taken on a bit more class with the return of several long term members who had either left, or were lurking because of re-occurring issues that had become a bit unpleasant.

These members, most of whom were here before me, have really brightened up the place, and have taken it in a new and positive direction.

I don't know what the catalyst was for their sudden en masse return, but I am glad it happened, and I hope any others that have been absent, will follow in their footsteps and add their voices and knowledge to this forum.

Judging by the posts I've read lately, and also several personal e-mails sent to me, I'm not the only one that is happy to see so many friends of this forum return to roost.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but it seems much more civil here lately...I hope it continues.

Thanks, Nigel, for your open minded approach to forum moderation...it surely keeps this place both interesting AND informative.

Ian the Impressed

Ian , I certainly agree. I have looked in daily for the past five years, and find it is returning to it's hayday, thanks to the old time contributors.

Bernie

Yes, Bernie, and in spite of Dave's rather negative allegations that some members are "bashers", the spirit of the forum has actually improved by a great amount.

Negativity never accomplished anything, but now, with the positive spirit of the returning members, perhaps you will be proven right, and this place will return to it's former heyday.

T'would be nice.

Ian

Dave,Nigel,Ian, Bernie.

Congrats for very well placed words.

Chico

I've never doubted the caliber of most of the information on SZ. I enjoy participating in a keyboard based forum to learn and hear new ideas and sharing some of my own.

There was no single reason why I returned when I did. Just felt like the right time.

Many of us have been around Nigel's place for several years. Its awesome that he's able to provide this to us at the high level he does. We should never take this for granted, because it can all be gone in an instant...

There will always be "tweakers." They exist on every message board out there. Members can directly tweak people by intentionally being harsh or rude or pushing buttons that they know damn well will aggravate others. There's another tweaker as well...The kind that under the pretense of wanting NOTHING but the nicest, warmest, fuzziest of forums actually and perhaps unwittingly, does damage. Oversensitivity can be just as confounding as insensitivity...

This has probably been overly discussed, but the magic of this forum and others like it is when we're on topic, exchanging musical ideas and examples. Ideas, demos, etc. should always be welcome no matter the quality or experience of the supplier.

In short, the casual musician on this forum should feel just as comfortable sharing things as the pros do. Honestly, IMO, a burden falls more on the pros around here to make the amateurs feel welcome. Its just good manners, common sense and the right way to do things.

We were ALL amateurs at one point, lest we forget...

Hmmmmmmm.

I hope I'm not one of the ones perceived as "bashing Nigel".

(I didn't realise there WAS a bashing currently underway).

I haven't visited for a few days, but in case any of this is directed my way, I'm sorry it might've appeared as if I was pretending to know how to run a forum, I was merely imparting my experience - and exercising some free speech in the appropriate thread.

I think I've been nothing but supportive on the whole.

If UD's comment has nothing to do with me, but more to do with other member's words, then I apologise for being incredibly paranoid.

Peace out.

Hellboy,

Personally I think most of us would be paranoid after reading Dave's post especially if we speak candidly or openly about something that may peeve us.

Vagueness of both intent and content cause more damage than speaking openly, in my opinion, which is why I found Dave's post a tad on the negative side even though he did suavely praise our host, Nigel.

I always read your posts with interest and respect as you always call a spade a spade.

Ian

I could be all wrong here but I believe it was this quote that triggered UD's post:

"Though others may not agree, I honestly sense an urgency now for a more active forum moderator(s) who can devote more time to better keeping tabs on the threads to keep them focussed on topic, as well as prevent them from becoming so easily hijacked (and escalated into all out war) as they have so often become recently.

Scott"

If that's the case, then I can't say that he is entirely off-base. Is that open enough?

chas

Unless I missed something, I too have seen no evidence of anyone bashing Nigel. The ONLY bashing I've witnessed was between members.

That said, along with the recent homecoming return of many respected longtime member friends, I'm really encouraged by the new air of optimimism & civility the forum seems to have taken now. Interestingly enough, the only negativity that I sense now is the tone of this thread's 'topic' title. - Scott

- Scott

Chas, if indeed (as you appear to suspect) Uncle Dave's 'TRULY BASHING' remarks were directed at me, I would hardly call what I merely expressed as 'personal opinion', as:

"bashing" Nigel, nor

grounds for Uncle Dave calling for me to

"go away and complain to someone else", and then add:

"if you don't like it - you don't have to play", and then adding insult to injury, claiming:

"In fact, many of us (ME included) would rather you DIDN'T".

It would be interesting to know just 'how many' people here really feel the way Uncle Dave does as other than perhaps the same group of 3-5 people, I think I'm pretty well received here.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 10-11-2007).]

Thanks Chas...much better than vague...but still, that's only your guess...only the original poster knows for sure.

And I agree with you, I didn't think Scott was entirely off base either...just a bit overly concerned...much like Dave, I guess.

Ian

Sorry Ian, I guess I wasn't entirely clear. I was referring to UD, not Scott.

chas

You tell 'em, "PHILLY FLASH". I understand Nigel's commitment to free speach. What I haven't understood, occasionally, is a lack of appreciation of "Nige" and unnecessary rudeness and confrontation. But, you know what? I think I know this group, and most of the foolishness would disappear if we were "face to face".

Let's face it folks...we LIKE each other!
(I think UD's a gullible "dork", but he's "cute as a button").

"Redneck" Russ

Rock on Nigel ... we're with you !!!
t.

Dave....Please direct me to the posts that are negative or bashing Nigel, I must have missed it and would like to see it and who posted it....thanks....still looking for your nightingale song....
TR

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 10-11-2007).]

Keep up the great work Nigel !

And thank you for creating a place where help can be found and new ideas to surface.

Things change , they always do , but sometimes the more things change the more things stay the same.

We must remember that we are all equal and that there are no boundaries here.

Music is a passion , a way of live and a way for one to express him or herself.

Getting the help and new ideas to do so is what this forum is all about , or at least it should be , and for the most part it finds it`s needs to express, with upmost success.

Thanks again,

Gary

Now all we need is Fran to return and we'll be all set again in musical bliss.
Just stop rehashing the past & move on.

Scott, please don't think that I'm trying to give you a shot, but it was this quote ("I honestly sense an urgency now for a more active forum moderator") that I took issue with, as I sense no such "urgency" in any of the posts I've read. On the contrary, although I seriously doubt that I'm one of Nigel's favorite posters, I applaud his fairness and willingness to tolorate a diversity of opinions and even sometimes, a little silliness.

I can't speak for the others but for me, I need a fair and open-minded moderater, I don't need a "Mommy".

chas

Well Chas, this comment comes across good and clear...and I couldn't agree more.

Ian

Sometimes the people who want a moderator are the ones who need them....get over it, move on.........why keep rehashing the past?
this or any forum will never be perfect.
I vote NO to Moderators on BBs or in life.
Dont we have enough laws. If you need to be watched go hire a nanny. Everyone wants all kinds of stuff done which is easy to say ....let me know when this moderator baloney ends please.
Doesn't NIGEL have enough to do.

Thanx



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-11-2007).]

So we all agree then?! There is more that unites us than divides us.


[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-11-2007).]

Good Grief, Mike...we'd best be careful...two people agreeing with Chas at the same time on the same thing...it may be too much for the lad.

Ian the Concerned.

Hey, is that a personal attack?

chas the (usually) innocent

Make that three agreeing with Chas the "Atlanta flash"!


Russ

Amen to that!

Standing at attention and giving Nigel an Aussie salute.

Taike

Donny: Well consider this. Nigel has had to remove more than plenty of threads, which have included you (and me) too . . .

Scott

This is awesome. Thanks for ALL your support. I am so impressed that we have an very active thread on forum behavior that has managed to remain civil. It just goes to show that everyone can express themselves without slipping into in the same old personal attacks and digs.

Hellboy there's absolutely no reason for you to feel paranoid

chas I've nothing but respect for you

Taike thanks for the Aussie salute. I think that would be raising a beer to toast to all of us

It is wonderful seeing old friends return again to the forum.

Uh...actually I meant... uh...yes, whatever you say, Nigel. ...smack! smack!

Taike

THIS is why Nigel is my forum hero !
Keep up the great work, my friend!

How nice to see guns holstered and the boys reunited.

Yep...I gotta agree.

Nigel, you're a cool guy!

Nigel..........

Unfortunately, the ratio of civil to uncivil posts drops as Nigel is seen to not moderate. Some pretty ugly things stopped dead in their tracks only because he closed them, and now we are all behaving like good little children now teacher is back in the room.

The test is whether they can remain that way without his constant attention. Eventually, time pressures and his other interests may return Nigel to a more occasional visitor. What happens AFTER that occurs is what is going to be the true test of the membership. All is peace love and understanding right now, but for how long?

How to balance civility with the needs of the forum, to actually HEAR what members want to post? I don't believe, as some are saying, that NO demos should be posted. Nor do I believe that ANY posted demo should just be greeted with a 'nice one, mate!' no matter WHAT it's quality.

Appropriate response is always the key. Newbie and self-admitted rank amateurs DO deserve encouragement, no matter the quality, perhaps with a tip or two to improve the NEXT one. Intermediates, if they post they ARE looking for criticism and advice should receive it (and, after all, what's the point of posting if NOT to receive a peer review? Vanity?) but never with malice. There are plenty of constructive things you can say without just patting someone on the back.

Pro submissions deserve to be critiqued as such, but, once again, without malice. However, it is up to the demo submitter to be prepared to take a poor review, and not escalate it into a war. Argue about the points of the critique, certainly, but I have never seen the point of personally attacking the poster... It's only music, after all.

Self-styled 'experts' need to understand that their postings need to reflect their opinions. I include myself amongst those (!), and am always happy to receive any comments, and even EXPECT to be called out if what I say and what I demo don't match. That is only fair. But once again, it need never descend to personal insults. EVER...

This is quite a unique place, with arranger aficionados of ALL walks of life and experience. To not take advantage of the shared knowledge here is a waste. But it will only come if those with the experience to offer are not shackled by dread of committing some faux pas to an overly sensitive poster that just wants a pat on the back.

Just pretend (however hard this might be!) that you are in a room with some friends, all of whom play arrangers... You play something that stinks, and one of your friends laughs and goes 'That's not so good!'. Would you get as riled up as if the same thing happened here? Probably not... Let's try to get back to that degree of cameradie, and be a little less thin-skinned.

And those of us that DO offer criticism, let's try to remember we are critiquing the music, not the man...

Peace out, y'all......

well said, diki

Yep...that about covers it pretty well...good one Diki.

Ian

You are right off target Diki. I am NEVER an occasional visitor. I read the forums EVERY day. Because I don't post to a thread or delete postings does not mean I didn't see them. Sure a thread may develop over the day before I see what is happening but I always end up seeing it that day and decide whether to allow it to continue or not.

This is why I'm not interested in having someone else moderate. No-one has the time to monitor the forums hourly which is what it would take to quickly stop threads that start to go out of control. So I just deal with them on a daily basis. The only exception is if I am out of town once in while and can't get to a computer with web access. I am definately not going to stop living my life to play baby sitter every hour of the day.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-14-2007).]

Nigel,
We'd ALL be a lot pooer if not for YOUR place here. Thanx again!
UD

My mistake, Nigel, no offense intended.

But the decision to moderate a LITTLE more tightly, recently seems to have payed off, and my guess is that if this level of forced behavior (no-one was moderating themselves, for sure!) is continued consistently for a few months, those that actually WANT to sling mud will go elsewhere, and those that just react to it will no longer have cause...

But whatever the reason, it IS nice to see some more civility here! Kudos! Keep it up...!

I'm still waiting for Dave to show me where Nigel is being bashed or slammed or abused....
Yes, the forum has settled down quite a bit for whatever reason and I would like to see it stay that way...Dave, please show me the posts...thank you

Tony,
Please make your own observations. I refuse to fuel the fires of any name calling or mud slinging in person. My statement stirred enough emotion to prove the point. Let's just think and move on.

I just finished my second green coconut margaretta, read all the posts, then thought seriously about a third. Nigel does a great job of keeping things functional around here, booting an occasional idiot, and most of all, allows the forum to be as open as possible. Sure, there's an a**hole or two, but for the most part, pissing contests seem to be down, and for a change good information seems to be flowing again. Glad to see the forum making the transition back to some degree of sanity, and I sincerely thank Nigel for all he has done to keep the forum alive. It's his ballgame, and he calls the shots. We're just interlopers.

Thanks Nigel,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

No problem Diki. No offense was taken

But you are right. Because I made it known I was starting to get pissed off by some of the misbehavior there does seem to have been a lot more self moderation lately. That's all I ever asked for, and that isn't too much to ask of mature adults.

I appreciate the support on this thread from you all. But I will probably close this thread soon because it has definately served it's purpose and I don't think it needs to remain as an ongoing topic in the recent postings listing.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-14-2007).]

Before it's too late then....

THANKS Nigel for keeping Synthzone running. Not having posted very much recently I did still visit very regularly and got my 'fix'. It has been a lifeline for me during the past twelve months and has been part of my life for nigh on 8 years. Thats a long time especially for the internet where things are often here today and gone tomorrow.

Long may it continue.
Best wishes
Tony

Like you, Tony, I fail to see any bashing or abusing, but Dave started this whole thread with those allegations.

I think the reason he's failed to show you any such posts is because there aren't any.

I also like the new peacefulness on the forum, and like you, I hope it continues.

It is a cool place, for sure.

Ian

Nigel-

Uh, now might be a good time as any to close this thread...

Thanks Ian....however, it's Dave's thread and he chooses to keep it to himself it's his call....let's just keep "keeping the peace" and continue to make music and enjoy the forum, Nigel has provided this most informative forum on the net, thank you again Nigel and hope that the trouble makers just stay toned down, make music...
Dave, still waiting for nightingale....
TR

Right on, Bill.