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#116222 - 04/19/05 06:35 AM KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
ptram Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 55
Hi,

KORG Pa1X users may be interestred to know that the new Operating System will be avilable in May. You can read more about it in our web site: "http://www.korgpa.com".

Best regards,
Paolo
KI

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#116223 - 04/19/05 07:27 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
harosha Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 193
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
OSIMO, Italy Operating System Version 2.5 for the Pa1X and Pa1X Pro, Korg's flagship arranger keyboards, is expected to be available in May, 2005. As usual, the new OS will be a no charge download from Korg Italy's web site (www.korgpa.com), and can be easily installed by the user.

Here is a list of the major new features that you will find in the forthcoming OS:

* Song Markers, for a quick jump to a given position in the Song
* "Expert" chord recognition mode, adding Rootless chords to the basic set
* Style/RT Track Balance (Style Play mode) and Song/RT Track Balance (in Song Play mode) controlled via the Acc/Seq Volume slider
* Skip Setup Measure, for a quicker Song start, by skipping the first empty measure
* Lower Lock, to keep the Lower track unchanged when choosing a different Style, Performance or STS
* Style Track Volume Lock, to keep the volume of the Style tracks unchanged when choosing a different Style or Performance
* Keyboard Mode and Chord Scanning Lock, to keep the keyboard mode and chord scanning unchanged when choosing a different Style, Performance or STS
* Style/Song Volume Link functions, to proportionally change the volume of all Style or Song tracks at the same time
* Factory Sounds overwriting, to create custom Sound banks
* Auto Select settings saved into the Global
* Multiple file selection in the Disk (Erase and Copy) pages
* Play All Midifiles/MP3 files in a folder (Song Play mode)
* Copy FX between Styles, Performances, STSs and Songs
* STS/Variation Link controlled by the Single Touch button
* All four STSs of the current Style copied to a Song Book entry in a single pass
* Harmony Track memorized with each SongBook entry
* The volume of all four Pads can be assigned to the sliders or pedals

And you'll also find:

* File overwrite procedure enhanced (Disk mode)
* In SongBook and Disk mode, touching a label selects a different list order
* Start/Stop, Play/Stop Seq 1, and Play/Stop Seq 2 commands simulated by Control Change messages received on the Midi In Control channel
* In the Event Edit pages (Style Record, Pad Record and Sequencer modes), events can be scrolled by means of the Shift + Dial combination
* Select button turns green when pressed in the Drum Volume and Easy Edit pages (Style Play and Song Play modes)
* Lyrics loaded as ".Txt" files can be scrolled with the Dial
* Aftertouch On/Off
* Lock page splitted in more panes

Also expected for the Pa1X during this Spring is a new expansion card devoted to the Latin and Latin Dance music.

OS 2.5 follows on from the powerful options and new OS features released during the 2004. In its first year and a half the Pa1X Pro has become the keyboard of choice for countless professional musicians worldwide who demand the very best. Korg promised an on going series of powerful and exciting new features for the Pa1X Series.

OS 2.5 continues our commitment to deliver RX Technology (Real Experience) at its most useful, not gimmicks to show off, but real world usefulness: what professional musicians need. This is why the Pa1X and Pa1X Pro are the worlds leading Arranger Keyboards.

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#116224 - 04/19/05 08:26 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
All this but still only 62 note polyphony...
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#116225 - 04/19/05 09:31 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
silva Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 152
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex K:
All this but still only 62 note polyphony...


Again polyphony???

GREEEEEEEAT UPGRADE. THANKS KORG
Franky

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#116226 - 04/19/05 09:42 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1663
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
This is great, you buy a keyboard and Korg is still updating and listening to the owners, it's just a matter of time before all the points are covered.

As for the polyphony, I really think you need to try the board before the polyphony issue is brought up, I've had this board since last July and have yet to drop a note, or at least heard a note drop.

I guess more poyphony would be better, but I know a board with 128 note polyphony and it doesn't sound half as full as the Korg
_________________________
www.AudioworksCT.com

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#116227 - 04/19/05 09:47 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Alex K. Metaphorically speaking, when you piddle around in Kia Rio and never drive a Rolls Royce, this is the kind of attitude and mind-set you end up with.

[This message has been edited by renig (edited 04-19-2005).]

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#116228 - 04/19/05 12:48 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Metaphorically speaking, we are talking about a Rolls Royce with a very fancy interior, with full grain leather, wine cooler, and steering wheels on the right AND on the left to ease the job of a chauffeur while driving both in the UK (or Australia) and in the rest of the world. Unfortunately, it only has a 4-cyliner engine of a VW Bug - no matter how you soup it up with options, you always stand a chance to run out of power if you press on the accellerator hard enough.

I am sure that Korg is a perfectly OK instrument (I had a chance to try it yet again at a music store yesterday, only to walk away wishing I could like it better). It is also admirable that they continue improving the feature set even though the instrument has been released over a year ago. However, if we keep mum about the obvious shortcomings, we lead manufacturers to believe that they can continue selling us instruments with sub-standard features while charging exorbitant prices, we are doing everyone a disservice.

As I mentioned many times, note dropouts do not occur every time (even to me) - they depend on the style of one's playing and on how richly they layer sounds. It appeared to me yesterday that all of the OTS programs have only one or two realtime parts enabled (with the others muted out). I also have not noticed note dropouts yesterday, but the laws of arithmetics are unescapable - it is easy to exceed the 62 or 64 note polyphony on an arranger keyboard. I believe that for the price of PA1X Korg owes us more.

On the other hand, as long as there are people content to pay a Rolls Royce price for a fancy car with a VW engine, we are not likely to see anything better.

Regards,
Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#116229 - 04/19/05 01:22 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
silva Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 152
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Hi Alex K,
I presume you dont have a PA1X, right? You must play it in a deep away, not superficial and understand the keyboard first. After that you can speeak according to your sensibility. In this case yu have no right.

Franky

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#116230 - 04/19/05 01:59 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
i have to jump in and agree with alex..i owned a PA1X-pro, and would like to clear up something with the polyphony issue..there are many sounds (if not all) on the PA that use more than one voice in their operation, in fact some use up to four..now do the math... if all the soudns you are using in the style are using 2 voices that drops the poyphony to 32, then add mebbe playing the keyboard live, average chord size 5 to 7 notes, add the sustain pedal which holds those notes on, whilst adding additional embellishment notes, it all adds up. i played the PA styles mostly in full piano mode using the full keyboard for playing and creating the chord changes, and i can tell you i suffered note drop quite regularly..its why i changed to a GEM ProMega2 + the Geneysys XP module...IMHO serious players need a minimum of 128 note polyphony, ESPECIALLY with the richness and complexity of the styles being programmed by 'board manufacturers...PLUS only having 32 MB of sample ram (and not being able to physically increase it) was, in my view quite shortsighted.) anyhoo thats my 2 cents ( well 75c really LOL )

peace, out

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#116231 - 04/19/05 08:25 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Quote:
Originally posted by silva:
Hi Alex K,
I presume you dont have a PA1X, right? You must play it in a deep away, not superficial and understand the keyboard first. After that you can speeak according to your sensibility. In this case yu have no right.

Franky


I have every right to post my opinion. I did not misrepresent myself, stating that my opinions are based my experiences trying it at the stores (for a total of probably 10 hours by now) and reading the specs which Korg has provided to us. I resent anyone telling me that I have no right to voice my opinion.

As far the facts about PA1X go, I do not dispute that it has a long and complex set of features (some would call it being too complicated, but I won't dwell on it ). I take issue with the undeniable fact that PA1X has ONLY 62 VOICES OF POLYPHONY
- no matter how "deeply" you play it, it will not increase this number. The fact that Korg can offer such a handicapped instrument for $3600 is sheer insolence on their part.

I am not saying that it is a bad machine, and I commend Korg on trying to make things right by coming out with software updates late in the lifecycle of this instrument. However, I believe that those who do not question the obvious shotcomings are doing everyone a disservice.
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#116232 - 04/19/05 08:45 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Hi AlexK,

I agree that not to question shortcomings in any product, musical or otherwise, is a fair enough point. It's just that I don't see the Korg's 'shortcomings' as a hindrance as far as my playing requirements go. You know, it works for me, and for some folks it clearly doesn't - that's cool.

I guess my original moan was that this whole polyphony thing has been done to death in this forum on previous occasions.

Cheers,
renig

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#116233 - 04/20/05 01:21 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Exound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Hoorn, Netherlands
This is great news...and the fact that Korg listen to his users (Rootless chords is a very often discussed item on this forum) is something other brands can learn from.

About the polyphony issue, I never experienced any drop out notes.
I agree with frankieve:

Quote:
Originally posted by frankieve:


I guess more poyphony would be better, but I know a board with 128 note polyphony and it doesn't sound half as full as the Korg

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#116234 - 04/20/05 02:23 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
But do we know for a fact that 62 VOICES OF POLYPHONY on the Korg is a short coming when compared to 128 VOICES OF POLYPHONY on a Yamaha? Cant we also argue that 128 VOICES OF POLYPHONY is also a short coming to 256?

Are we just playing the numbers game (who ever has the highest number wins) or are we talking noticeable drop-outs when using keyboards to their most used max potencial?
_________________________
TTG

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#116235 - 04/20/05 04:56 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9214
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Allocation is a key factor when it comes to polyphony...As an example, I play a Roland G1000[only 64 voice polyphony], but the Roland allocation of the voices handles the limitation of 64 excellent....compared to other manufacturers, I found a noticeable difference[Solton/Ketron,64 poly and Yamaha 126 poly]....Roland is superior...
Korg probably handles polyphony better than Yamaha and Ketron, but I would agree they better upgrade the numbers to stay with the competition....personally I can't wait to have a G70...I know Roland 128 polyphonic keyboards win the game of drop outs..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#116236 - 04/20/05 03:12 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
silva Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 152
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex K:
I have every right to post my opinion.
...
I take issue with the undeniable fact that PA1X has ONLY 62 VOICES OF POLYPHONY.
....
The fact that Korg can offer such a handicapped instrument for $3600 is sheer insolence on their part.


Hi Alex K

Could you tell me the exactly number of keys+pedal that I have to press in order to drops the polyphony in PA1X?

Regards
Franky

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#116237 - 04/20/05 03:32 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
Silva, it depends on what sounds you are playing at the time..as you would be aware some sounds on 'boards use 4 voices..(1 voice= 1 note of polyphony)so if you play a 5 note chord, with a sound using just 2 voices, you are in fact using 10 notes of your polyphony..then if you use the sustain pedal over that chord, those notes are no longer available in the total polyphony(until you release the sustain pedal of course) so then you add say a bass sound/s (most of which also use 2 voices) then the pads/strings/brass/guitars a lot of which use 3 or 4 voices, then throw in drums and some more held notes via the sustain pedal...and hey presto you start getting notes dropping out...at least on most modern 'boards they give you the option of assigning preference to high or low note dropouts..for what its worth i hope that helps..........oh and in answer to "to the genesys" its not really a pissing contest as to the number of notes, its just a factor to be considered, along with your playing style, in the original purchase...traditional piano players, IMHO, need at least 128 because of how they form chords and melody chops, a person who is happy using the preset styles configuration using single finger modes, would pretty obviously not have too many problems with 64 note polyphony. as you are aware the ProMega 2 has 160 note polyphony (the 3 has 320) and they are pretty much just digital pianos...anyhoo

peace, out

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#116238 - 04/21/05 07:36 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Manic,

Thanks for answering Frankie's question.

The thing all arranger manufacturers have to keep in mind is that 64 notes of polyphony may be enough for a synth, which is intended to play one or two polyphonic parts at a time.

The arranger is intended to play that PLUS the rest of the band, with richer layering of the solo parts and the 8 or more polyphonic parts for the accompaniment voices.

Select one of the better piano sound (two voices layered), play a succession of 4 8-note chords with two hands, while holding the sustain pedal, and you have note dropouts, even before you turn on the arranger, or layer rich strings over the right hand.

GeneralMusic, for example, realizes that it takes 160 voices of polyphony to accurately reproduce the piano performance, allowing for layering and sustain (yet inexplicably, they make their "flagship" arranger with only 64 voices, but I digress, since this is a Korg thread).

Fran is certainly right that allocation does make some difference, and indeed there are instruments which advertise 128 voices of polyphony, but in reality have more note dropouts than some others with only 64 voices. However, even with well-handled allocation (as in my Roland), note dropouts are still quite possible if the max polyphony is too low (as in 64 voices).

As I said a number of times before, it truly depends on your playing style - some people may never experience note dropouts, but trust me, once it happens to you, you will hate it as much as I do.

Some people will recall that some middle-end arrangers today have only 32 notes of polyphony, and still sell like hotcakes, while some of the most popular arrangers of some years ago only had 24 voices. That is indeed true, and one can compromize and adjust his playing style to fit into the limitations of the instrument, such as playing piano parts with only 2 fingers, and not using sustain pedal.

But having paid almost $4000 (including tax), why should anyone be forced to make these types of compromizes? 15 years ago, when Roland E-70 and Ketron MS50 were released, they had more polyphony than almost anything else on the market - they were practically pushing the technological envelope. Today most mid- and high-end instruments have at least 128 note polyphony, even though much of it may be left unused. Arranger is one instrument that truly NEEDS high polyphony count. It is high time for the manufacturers to realize that.

Regards
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#116239 - 04/21/05 02:05 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
not that he needs it,,,but i totally agree with alex..why pay a zillion dollars for a "flagship" arranger board, only to have the company scrimp on a few notes, the 'board should fit your style , not the other way around and if you have to adapt yourself its the wrontg unit...in fact the korg is only 62 note polyphony...its one of the reasons i traded it on my current setup, so i have 160 notes with which to play my piano/organ/string parts with the Promega 2, and I let the Genesysy xp handle all the arranger/midifile duties, so i now have up to 224 notes to play with...and the cost? just about the same as i paid for the PA1XPro.....(btw alex, sorry for jumping in on the question)

peace, out

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#116240 - 04/21/05 02:54 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Ok, here's my 2 cents. I myself don't give a hoot about those posted polyphony specs as kb manufacters allocate their sound & voices differently. The bottom line is whether notes actually 'drop out' when you're playing the keyboard. We all have 10 finger max which can play the kb simulatneously so I'd think 62 note polyphony should cover that. Manufacterers allocate polophony to a single instrument voice differently with some assigning one and other 3-4, so it's not fair to base a keyboard on it's published maxiumum polyphony number alone. I played the Korg PA1Xpro on several occasions and NEVER noticed note drop outs so don't have complaints about its polyphony. The only reason I've had to pass on the PA1XPro is because it's chord table doesn't recognize rootless 'jazz' style chord voicings, which is critical to my style of playing. I can only hope that Korg will join Yamaha, Technics, and Ketron by including 'rootless chord' recognition on the PA1X/pro. It can EASILY be accomplished (as Ketron as done with the SD1) with a simple OS Update. This remains the primary reason which has kept me from purchasing a Korg Arranger so far. I'm very impressed with Korg's 'up to date' sounding styles & distinctively fresh Korg instr sounds (except for the lackluster acoustic piano), so If Korg adds this (and perhaps improves the sound of the acoustic piano), I would seriously consider purchasing the PA1Xpro.

On another note, I've heard that some key sound design people who previously worked for Technics (Chris Halon, etc) have (after Technics demise) moved to Korg or Roland, and because Technics arrangers have always included 'rootless jazz chord' voicing recognition, hope these guys might be able to influence Korg & Roland to follow suit as well. In the meantime, any help from PA1X owners in requesting Korg to finally intergrate rootless chord recognition with OS 2.5 would be greatly appreciated by not only myself, but many other jazz style keyboard players out there as well. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 04-21-2005).]
_________________________

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#116241 - 04/21/05 08:45 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
scott check out the upcoming korg op sys update..it incudes support for rootless chord voicings....also dont forget that yes, whilst we only have the ten fingers, thats what we play physically, then add sustain pedals, multi instrument sounds etc etc etc, so if you think about it objectively you would see that there could be a problem for some players, unless of course you just play single finger chords???

peace, out

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#116242 - 04/21/05 10:13 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by manic2257:
scott check out the upcoming korg op sys update..it incudes support for rootless chord voicings.


Manic2257: My oversite for missing this important feature when I read Harosha's above OS 2.5 feature set. Many thanks for pointing this out. I'm truly encouraged by the news, as if this really is true and Korg implements chord recognition of the following chord voicings (and of course in all keys), then I'm definitely going to be taking a SERIOUS look at adding the Korg PA1X or PA1Xpro to my keyboard performance arsenal.

Here are the specific rootless style chords, with kb set in SPLIT mode with LH playing 'full-fingered' chords, that I'm hoping Korg finally implements with OS 2.5. I hope PA1X/PA1XPro owner here will, after upgrading to OS 2.5, will test and confirm that the following chords are recognized when played as follows:

II-V7-I Chord Progression

Key of C:
Dm9: F1 - C2 - E2
G13: F1 - B1 - E2
C69: E1 - A1 - D2

C9: E1 - Bb1 - D2

I of course expect the above 4 sets of chord voicings to be recognized similarly in ALL TWELVE keys as well.

The above chord recognition table (in all keys) is currently INCLUDED on all Yamaha, Technics, and Ketron arranger keyboards so it's really an encouraging sign to discover that Korg will FINALLY come onboard as well.


In addition to the above, Technics keyboard chord recognition expands on this and includes 2 hand rootless style voicing chord recognition in FULL keyboard mode as well. Yamaha doesn't include this. Though Full keyboard mode root chord recognition isn't essential for me, it would certainly be appreciated. I'm really curious now, if Korg is going to implement rootless chord recognition the way Yamaha did or the way Technics did. Either way, it sounds like exciting news (at least for me). Now if Roland finally implements rootless chord recognition too, I would be one happy arranger player, with the ability to FREELY choose between & feel comfortable playing (professionally) all of the major manufacterer arranger kbs out there. Because Chris Halon (who helped design & program for Technics) and who I've discused this rootless chord recognition issue with, has recently been hired on by Roland, I'm confident that Roland may soon follow suit with rootless chord recognition as well. At least I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Quote:
Originally posted by manic2257:

...also dont forget that yes, whilst we only have the ten fingers, thats what we play physically, then add sustain pedals, multi instrument sounds etc etc etc, so if you think about it objectively you would see that there could be a problem for some players, unless of course you just play single finger chords??? .


Yes. Good points. I concur that controlers & notes can eat up a lot of polyphony, but again, as Fran Carango stated earlier in this thread, it all depends 'how' the manufacterer allocates it that determines when notes actually begin to DROP OUT. Interestingly enough, I've played keyboards which tout high 128 note polyphony yet was able to drop out notes, but playing similarly on the PA1Xpro (with mere 62 note polyphony), no notes dropped out. Go figure. I guess what I'm stressing, is the only real way to truly determine if a keyboard can handle your playing requirements is to test drive the keyboard yourself to determine if it drops notes (from your style of playing) or not.

Scott
_________________________

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#116243 - 04/22/05 01:08 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey scott,
yes i have to agree with your last statement. people REALLY have to sit down with their intended and play like they plan to and see what happens...

peace, out

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