SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#116232 - 04/19/05 08:45 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Hi AlexK,

I agree that not to question shortcomings in any product, musical or otherwise, is a fair enough point. It's just that I don't see the Korg's 'shortcomings' as a hindrance as far as my playing requirements go. You know, it works for me, and for some folks it clearly doesn't - that's cool.

I guess my original moan was that this whole polyphony thing has been done to death in this forum on previous occasions.

Cheers,
renig

Top
#116233 - 04/20/05 01:21 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Exound Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Hoorn, Netherlands
This is great news...and the fact that Korg listen to his users (Rootless chords is a very often discussed item on this forum) is something other brands can learn from.

About the polyphony issue, I never experienced any drop out notes.
I agree with frankieve:

Quote:
Originally posted by frankieve:


I guess more poyphony would be better, but I know a board with 128 note polyphony and it doesn't sound half as full as the Korg

Top
#116234 - 04/20/05 02:23 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
But do we know for a fact that 62 VOICES OF POLYPHONY on the Korg is a short coming when compared to 128 VOICES OF POLYPHONY on a Yamaha? Canít we also argue that 128 VOICES OF POLYPHONY is also a short coming to 256?

Are we just playing the numbers game (who ever has the highest number wins) or are we talking noticeable drop-outs when using keyboards to their most used max potencial?
_________________________
TTG

Top
#116235 - 04/20/05 04:56 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9204
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Allocation is a key factor when it comes to polyphony...As an example, I play a Roland G1000[only 64 voice polyphony], but the Roland allocation of the voices handles the limitation of 64 excellent....compared to other manufacturers, I found a noticeable difference[Solton/Ketron,64 poly and Yamaha 126 poly]....Roland is superior...
Korg probably handles polyphony better than Yamaha and Ketron, but I would agree they better upgrade the numbers to stay with the competition....personally I can't wait to have a G70...I know Roland 128 polyphonic keyboards win the game of drop outs..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#116236 - 04/20/05 03:12 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
silva Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 152
Loc: Lisbon, Portugal
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex K:
I have every right to post my opinion.
...
I take issue with the undeniable fact that PA1X has ONLY 62 VOICES OF POLYPHONY.
....
The fact that Korg can offer such a handicapped instrument for $3600 is sheer insolence on their part.


Hi Alex K

Could you tell me the exactly number of keys+pedal that I have to press in order to drops the polyphony in PA1X?

Regards
Franky

Top
#116237 - 04/20/05 03:32 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
Silva, it depends on what sounds you are playing at the time..as you would be aware some sounds on 'boards use 4 voices..(1 voice= 1 note of polyphony)so if you play a 5 note chord, with a sound using just 2 voices, you are in fact using 10 notes of your polyphony..then if you use the sustain pedal over that chord, those notes are no longer available in the total polyphony(until you release the sustain pedal of course) so then you add say a bass sound/s (most of which also use 2 voices) then the pads/strings/brass/guitars a lot of which use 3 or 4 voices, then throw in drums and some more held notes via the sustain pedal...and hey presto you start getting notes dropping out...at least on most modern 'boards they give you the option of assigning preference to high or low note dropouts..for what its worth i hope that helps..........oh and in answer to "to the genesys" its not really a pissing contest as to the number of notes, its just a factor to be considered, along with your playing style, in the original purchase...traditional piano players, IMHO, need at least 128 because of how they form chords and melody chops, a person who is happy using the preset styles configuration using single finger modes, would pretty obviously not have too many problems with 64 note polyphony. as you are aware the ProMega 2 has 160 note polyphony (the 3 has 320) and they are pretty much just digital pianos...anyhoo

peace, out

Top
#116238 - 04/21/05 07:36 AM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Manic,

Thanks for answering Frankie's question.

The thing all arranger manufacturers have to keep in mind is that 64 notes of polyphony may be enough for a synth, which is intended to play one or two polyphonic parts at a time.

The arranger is intended to play that PLUS the rest of the band, with richer layering of the solo parts and the 8 or more polyphonic parts for the accompaniment voices.

Select one of the better piano sound (two voices layered), play a succession of 4 8-note chords with two hands, while holding the sustain pedal, and you have note dropouts, even before you turn on the arranger, or layer rich strings over the right hand.

GeneralMusic, for example, realizes that it takes 160 voices of polyphony to accurately reproduce the piano performance, allowing for layering and sustain (yet inexplicably, they make their "flagship" arranger with only 64 voices, but I digress, since this is a Korg thread).

Fran is certainly right that allocation does make some difference, and indeed there are instruments which advertise 128 voices of polyphony, but in reality have more note dropouts than some others with only 64 voices. However, even with well-handled allocation (as in my Roland), note dropouts are still quite possible if the max polyphony is too low (as in 64 voices).

As I said a number of times before, it truly depends on your playing style - some people may never experience note dropouts, but trust me, once it happens to you, you will hate it as much as I do.

Some people will recall that some middle-end arrangers today have only 32 notes of polyphony, and still sell like hotcakes, while some of the most popular arrangers of some years ago only had 24 voices. That is indeed true, and one can compromize and adjust his playing style to fit into the limitations of the instrument, such as playing piano parts with only 2 fingers, and not using sustain pedal.

But having paid almost $4000 (including tax), why should anyone be forced to make these types of compromizes? 15 years ago, when Roland E-70 and Ketron MS50 were released, they had more polyphony than almost anything else on the market - they were practically pushing the technological envelope. Today most mid- and high-end instruments have at least 128 note polyphony, even though much of it may be left unused. Arranger is one instrument that truly NEEDS high polyphony count. It is high time for the manufacturers to realize that.

Regards
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

Top
#116239 - 04/21/05 02:05 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
not that he needs it,,,but i totally agree with alex..why pay a zillion dollars for a "flagship" arranger board, only to have the company scrimp on a few notes, the 'board should fit your style , not the other way around and if you have to adapt yourself its the wrontg unit...in fact the korg is only 62 note polyphony...its one of the reasons i traded it on my current setup, so i have 160 notes with which to play my piano/organ/string parts with the Promega 2, and I let the Genesysy xp handle all the arranger/midifile duties, so i now have up to 224 notes to play with...and the cost? just about the same as i paid for the PA1XPro.....(btw alex, sorry for jumping in on the question)

peace, out

Top
#116240 - 04/21/05 02:54 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Ok, here's my 2 cents. I myself don't give a hoot about those posted polyphony specs as kb manufacters allocate their sound & voices differently. The bottom line is whether notes actually 'drop out' when you're playing the keyboard. We all have 10 finger max which can play the kb simulatneously so I'd think 62 note polyphony should cover that. Manufacterers allocate polophony to a single instrument voice differently with some assigning one and other 3-4, so it's not fair to base a keyboard on it's published maxiumum polyphony number alone. I played the Korg PA1Xpro on several occasions and NEVER noticed note drop outs so don't have complaints about its polyphony. The only reason I've had to pass on the PA1XPro is because it's chord table doesn't recognize rootless 'jazz' style chord voicings, which is critical to my style of playing. I can only hope that Korg will join Yamaha, Technics, and Ketron by including 'rootless chord' recognition on the PA1X/pro. It can EASILY be accomplished (as Ketron as done with the SD1) with a simple OS Update. This remains the primary reason which has kept me from purchasing a Korg Arranger so far. I'm very impressed with Korg's 'up to date' sounding styles & distinctively fresh Korg instr sounds (except for the lackluster acoustic piano), so If Korg adds this (and perhaps improves the sound of the acoustic piano), I would seriously consider purchasing the PA1Xpro.

On another note, I've heard that some key sound design people who previously worked for Technics (Chris Halon, etc) have (after Technics demise) moved to Korg or Roland, and because Technics arrangers have always included 'rootless jazz chord' voicing recognition, hope these guys might be able to influence Korg & Roland to follow suit as well. In the meantime, any help from PA1X owners in requesting Korg to finally intergrate rootless chord recognition with OS 2.5 would be greatly appreciated by not only myself, but many other jazz style keyboard players out there as well. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 04-21-2005).]
_________________________

Top
#116241 - 04/21/05 08:45 PM Re: KORG Pa1X OS 2.5 announced
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
scott check out the upcoming korg op sys update..it incudes support for rootless chord voicings....also dont forget that yes, whilst we only have the ten fingers, thats what we play physically, then add sustain pedals, multi instrument sounds etc etc etc, so if you think about it objectively you would see that there could be a problem for some players, unless of course you just play single finger chords???

peace, out

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Admin 



Help keep Synth Zone Online