Hello

So, after buying the PSR2000 my thoughts are now moving to amplification. I want to get about the best sound I can with my new axe. I have an older Peavey KB-300 which sounds ok and weighs a ton. The previous discussion on Barbetta speakers weighing only 36.5 lbs got me thinking. So, I decided to hit three stores one day and see what things sounded like. I wondered if I really needed a 15" and a horn to sound good or if current technology has changed enough where smaller and lighter will work. I was right. Wharfedale 10" (or possibly 12") with horn wins!!! Its the new EVP-S series. They only weigh about 32 lbs and are very reasonably priced, about $150 apiece, AND sounded the best of the PA speakers to boot!!!!

This is a suprise for me who comes from the old school of thought to look for names like Fender, Peavey etc. Not so anymore to my ears.

Here is my rating line-up:

1.Wharfedale (see above reasons)
2.Roland KC500 (great sound but too bulky)
3.Yamaha (I thought these had great sound until I heard the Wharfedales)
4.Mackie (pretty good sound but price and weight not to my liking)
5.Community (Seemed ok but no name recognition for me)
6.Peavey (last place. worst sound. sounded jumbled)

All of these were tried at flat settings. I tried the 10", 12" and 15" were applies on the ones I was most interested in.

So, this is a suprise to me. How about y'all? No Wharfedale head available right now but is on the way.

This brings up my next question: What size head do I need? I play mostly small and medium sized rooms but occasionally play quit large rooms or halls. The largest I have played in is the Navy Museum here in Pensacola, Florida. This place is hugggge!! I used my Peavey KB300 here (about 150 watts I think) had the master on about 7 or 8 and the seperate channels on about 1 1/2. The comment I heard most that night was I was too loud. So, with that in mind, any ideas? What brand and model etc.?

Also, a question regarding mono vs stereo. Someone on the forum just recently mentioned that stereo sounded more realistic. I kind of like the stereo idea for my ears (I think) and also I plan to record live into a tape deck. I tend to play better live and unreheased. If I get something good I want to make some CD's on my Sound Forge or Cool Edit at 24/96 through my Mia sound card. However price is now an issue, but if it sounds great I probably would get stereo or at least have that option. BUT, a knowledgeable salesperson pointed out he would never recommend a stereo PA head because people in the audience would not hear the same signal and would be missing some of the sound depending on location. If this is true and it seems like it would be, can I still record in stereo on a mono PA head?

Thanx again for your input.

Scott Langholff

Regarding the recording: One great thing about the PSR2000 is that the main outputs (1/4-inch) are controlled by the master volume knob. There also is a pair of RCA outputs that are always "wide open". I have found that these outputs are excellent for recording, if everything you want to record is going through the keyboard. (Mine is.)
Personally, I prefer stereo for the mains, and run it that way nearly all the time. However, whether you run mono or stereo to the audience, you can still record in stereo from the RCA outs.
DonM

Scott,

I think that the salesman who told you not to use stereo in a live performance is not correct. Think about it, if a live band with 4 or 5 players were playing, the guy sitting closest to the bass amp would hear more bass. The person sitting on the side by the lead guitar would hear more lead guitar. It is the same way using stereo with an arranger. The people in the back of the room hear the mix in a blended way both with a live band or arranger. They hear the seperation up close.

We had a huge outdoor concert last week by the Beach Boys. The space that needed to be covered outside with 16,000 people was vast. Everything was mixed down and amplified in mono. If you were listening to the Beach Boys inside a small 200 person club you would hear the natural seperation of the instruments and maybe even the vocals. I would use stereo.

Tom

Wharfedale is a new name to me. After some research and talking with the powers that be in the UK, I find they are just now making inroads on getting US distribution.

The specs are very interesting and the prices most competitive. Some of the economies appear to have been achieved by using a carpeted wooden enclosure vs molded. Other than that, I don't see a lot of downside when compared with their bigger name competition.

Here is the site for the EVP-S series (10", 12" and 15")http://www.proaudiosystems.co.uk/acatalog/Wharfedale_Pro___EVP_Series.html

Not being an audio engineer, any comments would be appreciated.
Eddie

Hi Eddie

I just sent you an e-mail trying to answer some of your questions. Yes, the Wharfedales were a BIG suprise to me, especially the fact that I could use a 10" or 12" (both sounded about the same) rather than carry around a 15" which by the way was too boomey in the sound. The 10's are the ones I think I will get, only about 32 lbs!! The 10" and 12" had a very clear sound which I guess has to do with a built in compressor. As stated above the Roland sounded good too. But the Peaveys and Yamahas which I though would be my preference all had different kinds of disturbing sounds in them, where the Wharfedales were pure and clear sounding.. All speakers were set with tone controls on flat.

The ones I saw had just arrived about a week before. They told me they were one of the first dealers in the country to get them.

Scott

Yes Scott...I got it and thank you for all the info. I did find an outlet in Tampa, but they have not posted any Wharfedale info on their site yet.

Gearnut.com has a good wharfedale page http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rehobothmusic/wharevpsersp.html, for those who may be interested.

Eddie

"What size head do I need?"

Think big then turn down the volume. A small amp driven hard tends to sound rougher than a big amp taking it easy. Also a big amp gives the bass end more depth due to the ability to handle the peaks. Using Yamaha CP2000 at present; lotsa guts, not too heavy, cheapish here in the UK for such a powerful amp (420 pounds sterling mail order).

"Stereo or Mono"

I run in stereo, although the vocal echo return is in mono despite use of a stereo effects unit; use of the stereo return seemed to "defocus" the vocals. Strings, electric pianos and all things chorused sound much better stereo.

Of course, given the nature of audiences as discussed elsewhere on this forum, the only person who notices the difference is you!

One of my main concerns is to minimize the amount of gear it takes to perform. This saves a lot of cost and maintenance, reduces the cables in the signal chain and makes it easier to find and fix problems, reduces setup time and saves cartage which can also save you health problems in the long run. I have used powered JBL EON's for a number of years and found them to be very hardy and clear sounding. The small 10" powered EON's weigh something like 23 pounds each including the built-in digital amp. With the vocal DSP that the PSR2000 has, it seems possible that you could use powered speakers like small EON's without the need for any other mixers/head or outboard gear of any kind.

Also, I think it is important to buy speakers that deliver as flat a frequency response as possible. Keyboards have a very wide range of tones that sound best when all tones are heard evenly. The Peavey speakers I have worked with required extensive amounts of EQ to achieve flat response, whereas JBL's did not.

Pro,
Do you use JUST the 10" Eons, or also the 15's? Do you get adequate bass response from the 10's? I used the 15's for about a year and was quite happy with them. I have thought about getting some more and wonder if the smaller ones would work.
Thanks,
Don

Hello

I have not tried the JBL's but 23 lbs sure sounds interesting to me if they sound good. I am really trying to watch it when it comes to hauling stuff because I fixed up my wrists, elbows and shoulders about a year and a half ago. I'm not sure if it was muscle or bone. The wrists and elbow cleared up rather quickly. I used magnet therapy. Yes, it still sounds weird to me even now. I used a bracelet with magnets for my wrists. Did they do it, would they have gotten better all on there own, or were the braclets like a placebo and my mind took over? This I don't know. Even my MD who is a sports Doctor said he believed in magnet therapy if you have the right type of magnet for the job. All I know is with this kind of stuff it shouldn't hurt you and who knows unless you try. The thing I heard about them was that like everything else everyone responds differently. So, to me even if it acted only as a placebo and it worked then what the heck. My shoulders are pretty good now after about a year and a half, but I really watch it.(I didn't use magnets on the shoulders except for a few times. Maybe I should have continued). I wasn't really planning on getting on this subject, but maybe somebody is having a joint problem and needs to try magnet therapy. If one of you can use this info and get rid of a problem like that then I guess this rambling was worth it.

Anyway, I have not bought the Wharfedale speakers yet. I still can't believe the sound on those 10" and 12" speakers and at that kind of price, and weight.

But, I am all ears to you other pros out there. I saw the post on the Barbetta's it all sounds good to me except the price. I bet the same thing can be done for less money. Usually a little research will do the trick. How much do those JBL's go for? I do know though that on this particular subject the sound is the most important and I wouldn't buy something I could not hear first.

So, if you guys and gals have any other ideas and suggestions I am all ears.

Thanx

Scott Langholff

I TOTALLY AGREE with what Donny is emphasizing here. HOW you sound is EVERYTHING and can make/break future gig bookings. Get the BEST you possibly can afford. If you're a vocalist, the same goes for your mic selection. No matter how great the sound system, the resultant sound quality will be limited by the quality of the mic. - Scott

Hello

Another thought on this subject. When I did the testing I used the built in demo. Before I buy anything I will either play like I normally do and/or have some songs on a disk I recorded so I can move around the room to see how the sound travels etc. I've noticed in the past on other keyboards that the built in demo is not always the same sound as when playing it yourself.

Scott

I TOTALLY AGREE with what Donny and Scottyee are emphasizing here. Spend up on the speakers to do justice to your instrument and to your performance. As far as I am concerned a stereo set-up is the only way to go (having done the mono thing for a very short time). Stereo gives better separation and a perceived greater depth and more even volume (intencity) of sound throughout the hall, not to mention the quality of the sound produced.

[This message has been edited by JonPro (edited 07-16-2002).]

Though I agree with you, and prefer running in stereo, if budget is a concern, I'd suggest purchasing one SINGLE 'higher quality' more expensive speaker PA such as the Mackie SM450 or EV SxA100 first (instead of going with 2 lower quality stereo PA speakers), and then later on, when your budget permits, purchase a second PA speaker (SM450 or EV SxA100) to run in stereo. I believe that the 'audio quality' itself supercedes the requirement for stereo, though I admit that running stereo further enhances the sound & ambience. Just my opinion of course.

By the way, my PA setup consists of two EV SxA100s. For the smaller gigs I just take ONE PA speaker running (running mono) and it sounds pretty good. I take both SxA100's and run stereo for the larger venues. I'm really happy with my setup PA setup cuz it's both lightweight & portable and offers terrific sound. - Scott

Large speaker elements generate low frequency sounds more efficiently than small speaker elements, generally speaking. By attenuating mid-range frequencies, one can get a wide flat frequency response from a small speaker. However, more power is required to drive the smaller speaker and more heat is generated so the smaller speakers may run hotter. I think this applies to the Barbettas. If this is a factor for you, you might check on this regarding the Warfedales.

I had a pair of the powered EON 15's and I replaced them with a pair of powered G2 EON 10's. The 15's were overkill for me... the rooms I play are usually small and I play at near-acoustic levels. I use my EON 10's for both mains and monitors, by placing them on the floor at an angle behind me. They seem plenty powerful at 175 watts each and they carry bass surprisingly well (being on the floor probably helps). The newer G2 EON 10 powered models have more power than the originals did. They are fairly common so I tried them out at a music store with an arranger keyboard before I bought them... they sounded great. I bought them new, I think for around $450 each. I also recommend the carry bags that JBL makes for them, which makes them much easier to tote (the EON 10's have a strange and uncomfortable hand hold on top, the bags have a real handle) and less prone to scuff.

I also have a pair of the original non-G2 EON powered subwoofers that I have used with the EON 10's in auditoriums and outdoors. The EON 10's feet fit into the holes on the top of the subs so they stack great. So if you really want to cover the bases (or basses) and can handle the cost then having both the 10's and the matching subs is the most versatile way to go.

JBL EON's are not inexpensive, but they are really well made, sound great and will last for many years with a little care. They also have good resale value (I had no trouble selling my old EON 15's).