I know that some of you use mp3's,etc in performances. Aside from break music, which is a good enough reason, how else do you use it ?

I would like to use them occasionly as vocal backup files, but I don't see a way of adjusting the pitch, or erasing the vocal track. I know there are semi-successful programs out there that have limited success on some files, depending on how it is recorded.

I can record on a SD card, and play on my KN7000 if it can be used for some good purpose.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Bernie

Hi Bernie,
if you want to use audio files as backing for vocals, why not create your own.
You've got your KN7 to give you the backing style.
Basically record the backing song on the KN7, save as a midifile.
Load into a p.c. sequencer. Replace some of the kn voices with voices from your receptor. (Record some additional tracks of your own, if required.)
Then record the whole performance as an audio file.
Recording audio is something I'm not familiar with. I never ventured past the audio recording software that came with the kn7. There's far better programs available.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]

The Karaoke site is a good one. I suppose one could record a DVD into a WAVE file, then compress to MP3, and onto an SD card, except you couldn't change the pitch without additional software. At least I don't think so.

Rikki
Yes, that would work, with some effort. At least you can manipulate Midi, and the Receptor certainly has the quality with the Colossus samples.

http://www.chronotron.com/

I think the Keytron Midijay can do everything from lead vocal suppression to pitch/transpose and time stretching on WAV files. Don't know how effective it is a vocal suppression (never heard a vocal eliminator/suppressor I liked) but with Karoake files it should be pretty good at the pitch shift/stretch thing. With all of it's other functions including MIDI file playback and arranger functions the Midjay is practically a soloact swiss army knife.

[This message has been edited by Esh (edited 04-16-2006).]

Bernie ... if you can play the file on your kn7000, can't you use the 'transpose' function to change the pitch (key) ?
t.

Shhhhhh.....And so much more...

On a Kn7000 there is no problem changing the key. As far as recording a song on to the SD card – it can be done, but it takes a bit of work. I have a friend that creates or reworks midi files he downloads and then records them on to a mini disk recorder. He uses an EQ and a BBE to enhance the sound.
Record anything you play – no computer involved, play and record. Some do their recordings on to a CD, better sound quality.

I have recorded some Line dances on my SD card – but I have found it much easier to put the songs on a CD and play them using my laptop. I do not like using my KN7 to play midi files, it’s not friendly.

You could uses the doo’s and aha’s on the keyboard for vocal backgrounds. There are units that will change the pitch of a recording. There are some that will extract the vocal track. I found they extract the vocal track but not the reverb track so you can still hear the vocal. (slightly)

Bottom In my opinion, use the SD card for audio only if you plan to use it for a few songs. Use the laptop for midi files. It transposes, and can change the tempos and volume and save them. The Sonar/Cakewalk type of programs can transpose midi and audio files. Reworking midi files on a Kn7 is much to involve, it is far too much work.
Not so on the Yamaha keyboards.

Hope this helps, John C.

Thanks to everyone for your response. I have something to go on.

Bernie

Here's how I'm using MP3's currently... this is one of my stage rigs that I'm using. What's interesting about this gear porn is the way everything fits and works together, looks great, and is fairly simple. The components are a Kawai ES4 digital piano, a Freehand Systems Music Pad Pro and an Ultimate Stand VS-80 V-Stand. The Music Pad Pro is fitted with an optional tabletop stand adapter from Freehand that happens to lock solidly onto the stock music stand of the ES4 and is rock-stable, as seen here:



With the Music Pad Pro's new OS 4 the MPP can display music and playback accompaniment and/or break music MP3 files. The MP3 feature is still a bit buggy but functional. By running the audio output of the MPP into the input of the ES4 the audio comes out of the keyboard's internal speaker system in stereo... nice for intimate gigs or practice. I use Motion Sound KP-series stereo keyboard amps behind me which creates a surround-sound effect.

This rig looks great and is very efficient. The V-Stand has the added benefit of eliminating "pedal creep" - the sustain pedal doesn't move at all. Black is cool... just thought I'd share...

Hi Esh
Nice clean looking rig.
I am using the MPP also, with upgrade to ver 4. due in today. I bought the stand for it, also. I use it with the KN7000 and Bose PAS. I am anxious to try the upgrades like you mentioned.

Thanks Bernie.

Hope you have better luck with the Music Pad Pro than I did... mine took weeks of charging and discharging the batteries before they worked right, which affects the entire system, and none of Freehands "fixes" helped other than manually working the batteries back to life. The OS 4 pads are different from the OS 3 units and they sat in a warehouse waiting for the new OS to be completed which screwed the batteries. Also you have to pay $49 extra for the Premium Tools unlock code to be able to play MP3's, which is a rip, and the XMMS media player that Freehand stuck in there for MP3 playback currently doesn't work right at all. I've chewed some butt over this and you can read the details here if you like. Having said all that, I've managed to whip the MPP into a useable system and with a little more effort from Freehand I think the MPP will eventually be a good investment.

Bernie, hopefully you'll have some better luck than ESH did. Well at least I did with my MPP ver 4.0. As ESH mentioned in his posts he had lots of frustrating problems with battery charge issues. I experienced some problems myself, but by the time I got my upgraded MPP ver 4 I think tech support worked thru the issues. They gave me a procedure that's also posted on their web site for bringing the battery back to life. It worked very well and I now am able to get 2.5 to 3 hours of life from the battery. Bernie I purchased the optional overpriced floor stand. It works well. Esh that is a neat looking setup you have. Using the table stand surely reinforces the stablility of the MPP.

I also purchased the the optional tools and Esh is right they are a rip. For what the MPP costs they should give you that upgrade no charge. Although there is room for improvement to the MPP it beats hauling around those 4 inch thick fake books. I'm with Esh, the MPP has lots of potential especially with more effort from Freehand Systems.




[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 04-18-2006).]

Just wondering....for all: what percentage of your playing requires Fake Books or charts vs Memorization & playing without music?

.... for those of us with failing memories ... UH ... what was the question, again ?!?!? ....
t.

Probably about 98% of my playing requires charts. I've never been happy depending on charts/sheet music. In all honesty it sucks having to depend on fake books. I have lots of respect for anyone who rarely needs charts. Call it natural ability or maybe just very hard work and repetition. There's probably no magic bullet. Yea, I've made some attempts to memorize material and lost patience in short order trying to memorize. So.....here I am now a slave to my Music Pad Pro



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 04-18-2006).]

I hear what your aying.....Although I can read....I personally NEVER use any fake books, charts, or any music whatsoever on stage it really holds me back from performing in the manner I want to & show better stage presence........it might sound crazy but I was taught to play with a BLINDFOLD ON as a great excercise to play & sing without looking at the keys or reading music/lyrics.....this will Definitly help anyone once you start doing it song by song, day after day try it sometime....
being a slave to the charts is a big hinderence that can be overcome with practice for sure.....plus it allows your music to breath and gioves you the ability to adlib, & improvise which makes for some really fantastic sounding musical playing it your way!!

Good Luck

I can do tons of songs completely from memory, but I also have another few hundred lyric/chord files on hand for requests, or songs I seldom do.
Since I play in the same place 3-4 nights a week, I simply can't do the same 30 songs every night. Also a big part of my job is doing requests. With the lyrics/chord charts patiently waiting in my Midjay I can do a LOT of them. Most of them. Almost all of them. Some better than others. Not all country either.
DonM

May not be so crazy.... I may just give it try I don't have anything to lose,although I'm gonna make sure the rest of the family is asleep when I try it. They think I already spend too much time at the keyboard. If they see me with a blindfold they'll have me committed to a sanitarium for sure.

I have a close friend who is one of the best musicians I know. He is blind. I used to make myself play with my eyes closed to try to see what it would be like. Navigation is the main problem, but I could adjust to playing the keys and I actually can remember I lot of songs when I have to.
DonM

As always, I recommend the Onstage Performer!
It plays wave and or mp3's which you can synch text and controlling devices as easy as pie. 149 dollars but nothing compares.
http://www.playwareinnovations.com/onstage_overview.php

Great program

Thanks for the compliments on my rig.

I have to say that I rely 50/50 on memory and reading so I find the Music Pad Pro to be a great alternative to the heavy homemade fakebook+music stand+light that I used to carry. Don't forget that my MPP is also serving as my accompaniment MP3 player at times too, plus it helps illuminate me on stage! It's serving many purposes in my rig.

Whether or not to use music on stage is a personal choice and I see that some top performers use written music while others do not. Like DonM I play 5-7 nights a week sometimes twice in a day and take requests from a list of hundreds of selections so whatever makes my job easier is fair game.

THink of it like this.....when you were 18 you started driving a car...both hands tightly on the wheel, tense, etc etc ......but a shiort while later you got your arm around your girlfriend........smoking a butt, listening to the radio, steering with your knees etc etc ........what Im driving at ( no pun intended ) is that the DRIVING becomes secondary to what your doing otherwise........just like when you play on stage....your eyes are on the audience, looking out there, not worrying about your fingers, rarely looking down at your hands or at a chart making it look effortless to the audience when performing creating a good stage presence...........now get that blindfold on......& no Peeking !

Hi Bernie,
probably not a great suggestion, but have you ever checked out Band in a Box for creating midi or audio files.
100's of styles with the megapak, majority so,so, but with a bit of work & a good soundsource, maybe could sound quite good?
I upgraded mine a couple of days ago and the styles seem to have improved over the years.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[b]

Rikki


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 04-22-2006).]

Can recommend BiaB very highly. I combine drum and sometimes bass loops with elements of rhythms/styles from BiaB with good plug-ins, and the songs sounds like a real band IMHO.

Can you post some BIAB songs for us too hear?

Hi Dnj,

there's some style demo's on the site. Bear in mind they're done with the vsc3 softsynth which isn't a patch on the way they sound on the ketron.
http://www.pgmusic.com/styles50.htm

Some of the blues, jazz & country demo's sound great.

Unfortunately I don't have the ability at the moment to do an mp3 of sd1 at the moment, my old win98 laptop isn't up to it.

I could send you a midifile to try.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 04-22-2006).]

Hi Rikki

I have BIAB with megapaks, as well as Powertrax. Yes, they are much improved over the old days. I rarely use either, as I have hundreds of styles for my KN7000. If I wanted to layout a song from scratch, I would rough it out there probably.

I mostly use styles except for some specialty tunes, and vocals where I want tthe original accomp.

The reason I brought up audio, is I just got SD Audio, that many received with their kb several years ago. I just wondered how many performers used mp3, and how. My sound quality is pretty good through my kb and Bose, but probably not as good as an mp3.

As soon as my Receptor is fully integrated with my setup, it will be even better. I quess I am never quite satisfied, and always looking at new technology , as well as constant self improvement.

Audiences today are too sophisticated to be fooled by pretend players, but on the otherhand, expect much more than 30 years ago.

Dnj, I'll need to convert wav to mp3, then I'll let you hear how a backing like this sounds. With the Onstage Performer I only use wav files as I find them superior in quality.
All the best,
Roy-Andrè

I use to rely on printed music[charts]..
While working with a young lady...we would do maybe 300 songs.

One night , we were playing a job about an hour and a half away..I set up , and didn't have our music book..Oh well..we started out with songs I knew would be okay, and guess what, we could do all the material..

Charts act as crutches..if you are forced to work without them, you will be surprised to find you know the songs already..

I can still play songs I learned from fake books 40 years ago, while playing with my first 5 piece band..Standards just stay with you.. You may miss a chord change once in a while, but so what..

I haven't depended on charts now for more than 15 years..

Even new tunes , I can work out without the sheets.

I use to be a pretty good reader...I would imagine this skill may have diminished a little....but who knows, when I'll need to find out..

Lose the charts..you may be pleasantly surprised that you don't need them as much as you thought......They have become a security blanket more than a tool..

That is very true, Fran. If I get a request for a song I don't often do, I may do it in C, or G, but it usually follows normal progressions.

I was told by a great musician years ago, that you have to learn to trust your ear. When you do, you can throw away your crutch. Of course, it helps to have at least a little theory, or know the circle of fifths.at least.

Get those blindfolds on when you practice ....dump the charts and look at the audience with a big smile, in the end you'll be a much better player all around

I've took out the blind fold a couple of nights ago and sounded more like someone tripping on his own fingers. Gotta believe with practice that'll change.

Fran, I'd love to lose the charts. Played a gig this last Thrusday and tried more eye contact with the audience instead of staring at the charts. Good point you make I didn't need them as much as I thought, but still not ready to show up at a gig without them.

Hi Bernie,
be interesting to know if a really high quality instrument ( ie receptor with collosus would make a BIAB song sound a great deal better.
I had a listen to the demo's using the vsc3 softsynth, they sounded ok, then I used my my ketron as soundsource, sounded even better.
I am going back to a softsynth setup as soon as I replace my laptop. Colossus & Receptor is out of the equation for me ( slight overkill for a non talented hobbyist) but I am thinking of expanding beyond my original soundfont setup. Possibly Hypersonic 2 or Bandstand, plus maybe Garritons.
What I suppose I'm really asking is, does a really high quality soundsource make that big a difference if using software like BIAB for the backing , keeping in mind the only additional tracks I'd be likely to add to a song, would be the melody.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]Hi Rikki

I

Hi Rikki
The key word is sound source. Garritan and Hypersonic 2 are sound sources superior to the vst's in BIAB. I think both are great for your purposes. Afterall, some of the other performers on the forum use them.

Thanks Bernie.

best wishes
Rikki

xxx

[This message has been edited by Lucky2Bhere (edited 04-24-2006).]