I read the manual a bit more and figured out that the above scenario is not a problem because it's (strangely enough) the pan that decides which subgroup(s) that channel routes to. If it is set to L it routes to the odd subgroup number and if it is set to R it routes to the even subgroup number. If the pan is set to mid, the channel is transmitted to both subgroups. Therefore you can connect 8 tracks on the mixer to 8 input tracks on the audio interface in this way by the sub groups:

Channel1:
Mic1 PAN L Button1 (-> sub group 1)

Channel2:
Mic2 PAN R Button1 (-> sub group 2)

Channel3:
Mic3 PAN L Button2 (-> sub group 3)

Channel4:
Mic4 PAN R Button2 (-> sub group 4)

Channel5:
Mic5 PAN L Button3 (-> sub group 5)

Channel6:
Mic6 PAN R Button3 (-> sub group 6)

Channel7:
Mic7 PAN L Button4 (-> sub group 7)

Channel8:
Mic8 PAN R Button4 (-> sub group 8)

It's also cool that the 8 buses are duplicated onto 16 jacks so you can route each channel to two differently manipulated signal paths into a 16 channel audio interface (for instance a clean and a crunch guitar all in one) without having to re-patch or re-record. Another very nice feature in the Behringer MX9000 is that you can use the direct outs on the rest of the channels(with predefined recording channels) and get up to 24 channels out, which is very good if you expand with an additional RME interface or external D/A A/D converter interface. But if you need 2 outputs back from the computer you can only use 22 of these direct outs effectively since two are required for the computer's main outs.

Overall I think I need an 8 Bus mixer, especially since I then also can specialize each bus and route it out however I want to. For instance if I buy some guitar amps I might run a Fender amp and a Marshall amp on the same bus and always be able to setup different guitars onto several setups without having to repatch anything! In a greater context I would even be able to dedicate several buses to the the same signal type e.g. with 2 buses for guitar get 4 different amps available on any of the 24 channels on the mixer! I am not made of money, so the Behringer is a good choice for me even though it might add some noise in the signal path. I read that it's only the mic pre amps that can get a little noisy when run on max level. The mics for vocals might be best routed directly to the RME.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

In my setup, similar to what you are trying to achieve, I went with the Tascam Dm24 and have never regreted it. It now has the 24 i/o firewire card available. I have had my Dm24 about 2 1/2 years now. It was fabulous at the price I paid for it then and it is a incredible deal now that it has been superseded by the DM32. If you have not already bought something else, it may be worhwhile to check one out. Btw, those strange direct outs on the Onyx could be tdif or maybe you just need a breakout cable.

Regards,

Danny

Bingo! Thanks Danny for your advice! I checked out the product and YES, it seems to be a powerful product with a low price tag together with the 24 i/o interface! Being able to record up to 16 channels at 96 kHz/24-bit is much better than the RME with its 8 inputs.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

Wow Danny that looks amazing? Is that both an analog mixer and digital interface? Does it have automatic faders? I've done a lot of research but never come accross that before...

Andy, why wouldn't the inserts work as outputs? Using a patch cable, why would I have to insert the cable half way?

Chony

I found the Tascam here for $1899: http://store.yahoo.com/drumandguitar/tadm32dimico.html

If you don't find it cheaper you might just want to price match it locally.

Thanks chony for the link! I emailed and asked them what it would cost to be shipped internationally to me with all taxes included. It's like 1434 euro before taxes etc and that's a price that is really low, when it costs 2299 euro at thomann.de. If the moms/tax is 22% and the shipping is 200 euro it should cost about 1950 euro, so I would still save a lot of bucks...!

You shouldn't have to pay tax from the US, though you might have a problem at the customs of your country. And shipping should be nowhere near that high.

It's not bingo anymore! There is a reason why things are cheap.

I'm getting more and more consirned about what I will really get for the money since it is told to be 24 ins/outs.

1.What I get is 14 channels in/out at 96kHz on 24-bit resolution, so it's a 14 channel mixer.

2.Quality issues? Tascam is not, what I've heard, a manufacturer of great PC drivers. Latency? What happens with the latency if I run 14 channels @ 96 or 24 channels @ 48 on a medium quality PC driver?

4.Useless digital effects? I read that the effects in the tascam are somewhat flat and not that good.

5.Expandability issues?

So what happens when I count in this in the price? It's not so cheap anymore... No matter how stellar the converters, how nice the mic pre’s, or how expensive or inexpensive an audio interface may be it doesn’t mean squat if the drivers are not up to snuff. Good drivers allow for stability and low latency operation. So by going for the Tascam DM24 I might end up with a unit that has almost what it takes to be able to record 14 tracks simoultaneously at 96 KHz into a computer.

I came to realise that for me the most important part in the chain will be the audio interface. I know what will upset me the most, that is driver problems in software sequencers. Cheap is good when quality is there, but when it isn't it really sucks!

I've done one mistake in my life so far when it comes to purchasing music gear. I have chosen cheap once in my life. That was a Behringer V-Amp 2 that the experts were bragging about. It surely was cheap, it surely was nice looking, and I surely got a chock when I started to play that thing! What could I do with amp simulations and speaker cabs when it all was just noise? I can tell you it was not fun to return such a beautiful peace of crap! I read the same thing about a guy that had stability problems with the firewire card for his DM24. The most scary part was that he seemed to be more of an expert than I am.

[This message has been edited by YamahaAndy (edited 03-06-2005).]

So I finally know what I don't want.

I don't want Behringer and I don't want Tascam. I want Mackie!

I want Mackie Onyx 1640 with firewire card. 16 channels true 96 KHz 24-bit recording with quality sound for a cheap buck: 2000 euro.

hi YamahaAndy (and others),

i'm new to this forum, which i find great, and have some questions about the fireface audio interface that i'm seriously considering buying!

interestingly enough(!), i would end up with a configuration which would be quite similar to yours and some others here: i'm a keyboard player and have a few keyboards + 2 electric/acoustic guitars as instruments (keyboards are main instruments however). also, i have Mackie HR824 monitor speakers (great ones) that i use with my Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro as analog mixer. so, it goes like:

keyboards -> mackie mixer -> monitors

pretty simple!

so far, i've been doing most of my recordings on the integrated sequencer of one of my keyboards (old Korg 01wfd), but now i want to use the fireface and my newly-built pc (small-form factor, with one pci slot only (main reason i'm going firewire))!

so my question is: can i get rid of my Mackie analog mixer and just use the fireface as following:

keyboards -> fireface -> monitors

does fireface have appropriate monitor outs (does it sound any less good than the mackie mixer for example), and more specifically, can i still use the fireface (as above) _without_ my computer ON while not recording and just playing around with ideas on the keyboard?

i still very much like my mackie mixer, but it's just too big for my little home studio space! i don't mind keeping it (especially that it's very practical to adjust all levels in real-time with just a knob or two), but i'm just curious to know whether i absolutely need a mixer and if yes, would it introduce any audible noise in the recording chain?

as you can see from my questions, i'm a newbie in home studio recording!

thanks all for any help....
justin