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#108679 - 01/03/00 07:36 PM 740 fill-in's
Jick Duck Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 140
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Tonight I was at the music store. I tried out the 740 and the roland g1000. Last week I tried the X1. Now keep calm a second, I think the 740 sounds the best. It SHURELY sounds better than the g1000 althogh the g1000 has more "powerfull" sound. But in a way, it even sounds better than the X1. I think it has a more crisp and distinct sound. In the X1, everything (voices, style sounds, etc..) sounds muffled together. Now, Maybe I'm biased (the 740 is less $$$), but thats what I think. After all I'm in America and everyone is entitled to there opinnion. (even if it doesn't make sense!)
Now about the fill-in's. The 740's manual (from the web), Says that after pressing a fill-in/part button (A/B/C/D), while the fill-in is playing, You can press the destination "main" part and it will begin playing after the fill finishes. When I tried it in the store, I found that the fill-in changes to the fill-in of the main button that you just pressed.
For example, if I where playing main part A, and I wanted fill-in B and then to resume playing part A, I coudn't change back to part A without having to hear the end of fill A instead of the end of fill B (the fill changes in middle!)
Now is there a way to program it or this is just a real stupid "fudj" from Yamaha?
Jick

P.S. Criticism? I'm just expecting it.
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Jick

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#108680 - 01/05/00 01:38 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
Jick Duck Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 140
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Please, does anyony know about the fil-in's?
I would be very greatfull. It's really a problem.
Thanx


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Jick



[This message has been edited by Jick Duck (edited 01-05-2000).]
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Jick

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#108681 - 01/05/00 05:25 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DannyUK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1098
Hi Jick!

Why should anybody criticise you? If you found the 740 better then thats good. People should never be worried about arguments AS LONG as they are founded (that is what these places are for otherwise it would be boring if everybody liked the same thing!!). I remember a so called RASHEED (bless his heart..not) where I think he said the DJX was the best keyboard in the world, however, he never really said why, I think that kind of person was only out to cause a stirr for the fun of it, but you have a genuine reason, even if people disagree I am sure they would respect you none the less.

The only thing I would argue against what you said is that in what way does the X1 sound muffled? Ive had it for around 3 months now, and it has a crisp sound. Maybe try increasing the 3 way graphic analyser for HIGH, MIDRANGE or LOW frequencies, they are very responsive and does make a big difference.

Perhaps when you say muffled, you mean that some styles have so much going on that it sounds overwhelming, if thats what you meant then I can relate to that because there are a few styles that are quite noisy (but still great). But most of the styles are very clear and easy to distinguish what instruments are doing what.

Hope this post helps.
Danny (UK)

PS. sorry but I cant help you with the fill ins as I dont know!

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#108682 - 01/05/00 05:45 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
Jick Duck Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 140
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Thankx Danny for your reply. Maybe I'm just mistaken. I never tried them out together. The X1 is in a different store. Maybe it's the acoustics of the store if that would make a big difference. Also, I never changed the equalizer so that can also be a problem.
Doesn't anyone out there have the psr740? Do you also realise the fill problem? Is there anything to do about it?

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Jick
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Jick

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#108683 - 01/05/00 08:23 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3299
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Jick,
One of the things that annoys me about the PSR 740 is the fact that you always get a fill in whenever you push one of the 4 part (variation) buttons. Because this is true, I think Yamaha is wrong and you are right. Think about it ! The fact that you select one of the variations and you always get a fill in first would mean that you can't get away from a fill in for that part! I think an example would be if you are playing variation 1 and you hit variation 3, what you hear is the fill in for variation 3 before actually playing variation 3. Therefore, hitting variation 2 right after hitting variation 3, you will get both of the different fill ins. My fix for not hearing any fills, which is a problem in the new PSR 9000 as well, is to memorize 4 registration memories with acccomp. on and store variation 1 into memory 1, variation 2 into memory2, variation 3 into memory 3 and variation 4 into memory 4. Doing this allows me to switch between the 4 variations with no fills at all. This is like most other keyboards on the market. I really think Yamaha should have had seperate fill buttons like in the past rather than this new system.
George Kaye
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#108684 - 01/06/00 05:31 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DannyUK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1098
Frank,

I would have to agree with Uncle Dave on this one, though the PSR740 is no doubt a great keyboard for its price and what it offers, but it does not compare much to the X1. A closer fit would be the PSR9000 against the X1 but even then I still think the X1 is better. I have owned Yamaha keyboards for over 10 years from the PSS780 to the PSR8000. In between them the PSR6700 was my favouriate though, it was just so powerful.

Everybody hears things differently though, but there is a big difference between the PSR range against Solton, they sound so different .

Danny(UK)

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#108685 - 01/06/00 06:54 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DannyUK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1098
Hi there Frank,

Thank your for your constructive response. I think the issues here are somewhat different. To acertain exactly what the argument is about, I think you may of been referencing both the keyboards design, as therefore perhaps there would be areas to which PSRs could benefit over other keyboards, if it works well for you then you can sacrifice one thing to gain another. But when your talking about sound quality and style arrangements, then the question arises as to where the comparison ends, as the X1 wins and should win every time. Technical issues are another matter which is the fault of the company, and depending on how this defect could hinder your music depends on the balance on what you are going to use it for, eg, home recording, pleasurable use or gigging.

I am sure you are probably 20 times more experienced than me in playing keyboards, my profession is in IT being a computer manager, I am not a professional musician but like all my family (in which both my uncle and father being professionals and have also made records and play in bands), music is a great love of mine so I enjoy playing and on occasions attending giggs with my father.

You must of had a bad experience with the X1, like I did at first with my X1 going wrong 3 times before I got a fully working one. But i never once questioned its sound and I truely believe it to be the most superior 'sounding' instrument at the moment from all that ive played on and heard.

Danny (UK)

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#108686 - 01/06/00 08:15 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
Jick Duck Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 140
Loc: Brooklyn NY
George,
My problem isn't really changhing the variation without hearing a fill, my problem is trying to do (for example) fill "B" and then "main" part "A".
Here's what you wrote about it: "The fact that you select one of the variations and you always get a fill in first would mean that you can't get away from a fill in for that part! I think an example would be if you are playing variation 1 and you hit variation 3, what you hear is the fill in for variation 3 before actually playing variation 3. Therefore, hitting variation 2 right after hitting variation 3, you will get both of the different fill ins."
Well, I don't agree with your argument all the way. The factory can program it any way they want even by having only 1 button for the main and fill-in. (though not programing to change variation without fill).
Maybe I agree with you, I just don't understand exacty on which point you were talking about.
Does the psr640, 540, or 9000 have the same problem?
Does anyone know of a way to get around it?
Did anyone hear from Yamaha about it?

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Jick
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Jick

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#108687 - 01/06/00 08:24 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
Jick Duck Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 140
Loc: Brooklyn NY
George,
Your idea about putting the differnt accomp. into the registration memory sounds good, but can you chnge registration memorey on the 740 (or 9000 etc.) while the auto accomp. is playing?

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Jick
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Jick

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#108688 - 01/06/00 10:02 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I haven't put my two cents worth in for awhile, mainly because I'm still trying to figure out all the intricacies of the X1 after four months. Yes it sounds great, but you can say what you want, it is a BBBIIIGGG learning process trying to figure out how to make it do what most of the other keyboards do automatically. Yes, it will do most anything, but you have to figure it out yourself, or try to get somebody to help you with it, because Solton is no help. They can't even come up with a readable owner's manual. And if you have a problem, be ready to try and solve it over the internet or telephone, unless you're lucky enough to live close to George Kaye's store.
Before the X1, I had a PSR8000. It wasn't perfect, but it sounded good, was easy to play in live performance and it was easy to operate. Nobody has DSP's like Yamaha. I miss it.
Before that I had a Technics KN5000. It wasn't perfect, but it was extremely easy to program and play live. It sounded good but not as good (to me) as the 8000 or the X1, or even the KN2000. Before that I had a Roland G800. It sounded good, had some really neat features, but had a lot of drawbacks, including spending most of the time under repair. Lately, I have been playing the PSR740 about once a week. It sounds good, is easy to use, is light weight, inexpensive and loaded with features.
Bottom line: my audience can't even tell when I change keyboards, except if it takes me longer to set up between songs. They want a beat they can dance to and songs they can recognize and that they know the words to. It doesn't have to sound "exactly like the record". In fact, when the name brand artists perform their songs live, they usually don't do them "like the record". I will let the karaoke guys and DJ's sound like the record. I want a keyboard that is easy to learn and use, has drums that sound like drums and sounds that sound like the instruments from which they were sampled. It must have styles or patterns that fit all the various types of music that I play. They don't have to be exact-- fact, I don't want them to be. I want to sound like a small combo playing the song--not like a dj spinning a disc. I don't care what sound bank it uses for midi playback because I don't use them enough for it to matter. If a 16 or 32-track sequencer and a sampler built in your keyboard is important to you, be sure you get a chance to work with it BEFORE you buy it. I don't know if my sequencer works or not, and don't really care. Just because a feature is there, doesn't mean it is easy or practical to use.
I want to be able to hit the fill buttons with my left hand. If this isn't important to you, don't worry about it. I want to have Manual Sequence Pads, so I can make drums sounds or applause sounds with my fingers. If you don't need this, don't include it in your "must have" list.
The X1 may be absolutely perfect for one person. The PSR740 may be the ultimate fit for somebody else. I'm sure Korg's and Gem's and Roland's all have owners who wouldn't trade them for anything. I have a friend who wouldn't trade his KN2000 for a new car (would you Jerry?). The only way to find YOUR keyboard is to spend a lot of time with it. Find a dealer who can demonstrate it, and then let you try it at home. Or buy it from a dealer who'll let you return it or exchange it within 30 days if you're not happy. Buy it with a credit card. If it's full of "bugs", take it back and don't pay for it until it's right.
Don't let me or Dave or anybody else tell you what's best for you. You decide. Figure out your budget, make a list of features you want, then try every keyboard in that range and decide what's best. Find a way to try them out. Pay the extra hundred dollars or so to buy it from a dealer who'll work with you.
If a keyboard is impossible to find close to you, think long and hard about buying it, because you will be just as isolated after the purchase.
I could make a list that would fill this page ten times over with great features the X1 has. There are a couple of little things that would probably be insignificant to most people that make it hard for me to use. I'll probably sell it within the month. It has been a great learning experience and it has been tax-deducted already. Don't know what I'll get yet, but, just like romance, the thrill is in the chase anyway.
Thanks for letting me sound off. My wife thinks I'm writing to some woman--don't tell her I'm going to change keyboards again!
Don

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 01-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 01-06-2000).]
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DonM

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#108689 - 01/06/00 10:31 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3299
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Jick,
Yes you can. You can change registration memories without stoping the accomp (style playing), just remember to have the accomp. light on when you memorize each of the 4 memories with the four different variations.
Frank and everyone else. Since we are all voicing our opinions here I would like to add my two cents into this discussion of Frank's experience with his X1. I am not a keyboard player. I am just a Music Store Owner who has a passion for auto accomp. keyboards. Without meaning any disrespect Frank, I think if you would have had a really good dealer who had spent time really learning his keyboard line as I and others have done, you would have had a different experience. Your experience has been such a typical one that so many buyers are experiencing all around the world. This does not make it right, to have experienced so many difficulties and possibly failures, but I see it with every keyboard line I sell. I have had dozens of computer, electrical engineers, and other high tech customers buy this X1 over the last 6 months and many have needed a lot of help from me. I've learned so much just listening and learning from my customers and I'm sure, them from me. I haven't had one X1 come back to me because of failures in operating systems or hardware. Almost everyone of my customers have added vocal harmonizers with no breakdowns, pattern expansion boards, with no breakdowns, etc. etc. Only one customer, Mario Escovar in New Jersey had to have his display replaced with a newer one back in July, and once replaced by Solton in New York, he hasn't had any problems. Frank, I only know you from your postings here and on the Solton EGroup club, but I wish you could have been living here in California, so I could have helped you along the way. I sell as many PSR 740's as I do X1's and I don't think this keyboard is even in the same league as the X1. One to me is a "Mercedes" and the other a "VW". I love the PSR 740 for what it is, but to think it is as good or better than the X1 just makes no sense to me. In my honest opinion, not as someone who likes to sell a more expensive keyboard because I can make $3000.00 instead of $1,000.00. I know that all of you who might be reading this, and have come to know me over these months, will hopefully know where my heart is. Yes I am a businessman, but my passion is beyond just the fact that I make a living out of selling keyboards. I feel very stongly about posting my comments tonight, because if new readers are visiting our discussion board tonight, I don't want them to think that Frank's experience is the norm. If it were, we would be hearing about it so much more, and I especially, being a dealer, would be hearing complaints all the time, but instead, all I hear are praises for the X1. Is it perfect, not hardly, could the owners manual be better, without a doubt, should there be better technical support here in the USA, yes. But as Danny, Dave, and numerous others have stated, it's a very good keyboard with great sounds and styles as well as many other great features not often found in too many other keyboards.
Thanks for a forum like the Synth Zone BBS, for allowing us all to express our opinions and thoughts.
George Kaye
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#108690 - 01/06/00 11:00 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
One of these days, I'm gonna come out there to California and spend the afternoon talking keyboards with you George. I hope all these people on the forum realize that it takes a great deal of passion to make the contributions you make here. Yep, I'm going to call up Uncle Dave and meet him out there. .. . if I weren't so afraid of earthquakes.
Don
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DonM

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#108691 - 01/06/00 11:30 PM Re: 740 fill-in's
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Dave,
Heck I LIVE on a golf course, but I've never seen Philly. Find me a weekend gig to pay expenses. We'll do "Duelling X1's" for those city folks. I know George doesn't have time for golf, he WORKS for a living.
Don
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DonM

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#108692 - 01/07/00 07:19 AM Re: 740 fill-in's
DannyUK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1098
Geroge,

Well done for your post. I think all our posts puts together a different view to Franks response which gives different reasons and different angles of opinions as to why the 740 is not in the same league as the X1. It just cannot be, features wise perhaps, but sound and styles I just cant see how it could match or even be on par.

One day, I would like to meet you George, and also all you other guys, Uncle Dave etc... Its a shame I live so far away, I think it would be great to meet up.

Take care all,
Danny (UK)

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