Hi,
I've only partially gone down the same road as Frank. My computer setup isn't on a par with Frank's, mines only a laptop with 512mb's of memory.
Originally I was only interested in running OMB software with a hardware soundsource
( my Clavinova clp170 ) but as time went on, I became more & more interested in using software based sounds.
Reason for giving up the hardware arrangers was that I realized most of the styles I use were converted styles . Most of them needed a certain amount of tweaking. So for me it's no great hassle, I'd have to tweak the styles for whatever soundsource I decided to use, be it a brand new arranger keyboard, my clavinova or the soundfonts.
My focus is to put together a software based arranger for as little money as possible but still have reasonably good sounds using soundfonts. Certainly not on a par with Frank's system, but hopefully it should sound ok with relatively little money spent ( except for my computer and clavinova which I use as a controller).
best wishes
Rikki

thanks frank and rikki for your responses,it seems more so now, that there are good alternatives with the upto date software ,rather than change keyboards every year or two,just to have a few upgrades and possibly lose some functions,but it does look like some of the manufacturers,liontracks, and wersi and 1 or 2 others are going down a similar route as you,it would be nice to hear how these new keyboard systems compare with yours once they become established ,mike

One thing I would like to make clear is that the hardware based solutions are good enough quality for live performances and have a better control surfaces. For studio, club work, etc. a system such as mine makes more sense....you notice the quality.

Dear Frank;

I am extrapolating form your comments above. Are you saying that by using these VST plus ins,and sampler data (giga, kontact etc) in live performance that the improved sound quality would be watsed in live-use vs. in studio use?

Is the sound quality degraded that much in live performances that one ( Players & audience) would not be able to tell the difference between hardware & software sounds banks?

I can definitely hear the differnce between them on MP3.


Regards;
BN

BN, musicians would notice the difference in all/most circumstances. Audiences do not pay enough attention to notice the improvement in sound. It is a trade-off to spend the money for improvements that most would not notice. Plus the control surface is not as good.

Will I ever go back to a hardware based solution - not likely!!! Just playing a jazz piece by myself in my studio is such a pleasure. The system sounds so good. There is nothing like an almost real Piano, Bass and Jazz Brush Kit. The rest of the world can pass me by and I would not notice.

For me it is worth it.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 05-06-2005).]

Hi Frank,
you definately know that it won't work?? ie that it won't recognize program changes in multitimbral mode.
Is it a case of not recognizing them at all, or does it have a problem recognizing too many at one time ie the system gets flooded with too much data and it can't cope??

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]
Kontakt does very very very very poorly when it comes to recognizing and implementing program change numbers.

Rikki, I am not certain on what the issue is but apparently NI knows about it and plan a fix for it. The way it works now is that you have to load the GM bank for each of the 16 channels. This takes way to much memory and takes to long. You should only need to load the wavetable once and set midi to Omni and use the proper instruments on each channel.

I guess I am a little surprised that a high calibre company like NI manages to get this wrong. LiveSynthPro was written by one person in their spare time - and got it right. Now Kontakt 2 is an extraordinarily complex piece of software. Once they get it working it will be very powerful indeed. So I have have high hopes but need to wait a long time.

Hi Frank,
how thoroughly dissapointing for you. Tis a bit hard to beleive that you'd have to load the full gm bank for each of the midi channels.
Normally ( if you weren't using it with arranger software) would you only load the instruments required for a particular piece of music. Not a terribly satisfactory method in this day & age.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, you are absolutely correct. For a midi file you could load in advance all the appropriate instruments in the appropriate channels and you could play the file. However, if there are program changes further down the midi file on the same channel you would be out of luck....dogs barking instead of humans whistling.... You can, of course, do the same with styles,i.e., preload the instruments and play. Yes, there are alternatives and I will find a way but first I will likely just load up a Drum Kit Bank and a Bass Bank and use LiveSynth Pro for the rest. In other cases where I am really fussy I will preload all the instruments and save it as a scene in forte and call it up with a program change number. The trouble with this is that it takes longer to load.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 05-07-2005).]

Frank,
What is the problem with Vsampler, is it
still too buggy or is the fidelity not
up to par with Kontakt or Halion?

Vquestor, you are right VSampler is not ready for prime time. It never seems to be rid of bugs. It lacks in overall quality of the sound engine and effects ---- very noticable. In addition it adheres strictly to GM ..... but does a better job of it than Kontakt at the moment. Kontakt v2 will evolve into a spectaclar sampler over the next six months. I just jumped in a bit to soon. With the script feature you can do anything midi can do and more. You can program in harmonics, legato and more.

Oh, I kind of like this modelled sax:
http://www.ueberschall.com/

Press Products
Press Liquid Instrument Sax
Press One of the Play buttons


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 05-07-2005).]