Originally posted by: trtjazz

"Ease of operation is not even a comparison to the Mo IMO, the Fantom is not very taxing even to a dope like me. It's the first time I have used the on board sequencer on any board."

Terry

Terry, now that you're using the on board Sequencer on the S88 you might want to try something to see if your getting note drop off on the Fantom S. For instance, I just recently recorded a song on my PSR 2000's Sequencer that I posted on the SVP World Forum and to which you gave me your critique of the song, ie., "new synthy sounding song". After I recorded the song I placed it on a floppy disk and inserted it into my PC. I then opened the song in my Pro Soft Synth program and played it noticing the Polyphony counter during the playback to see how much Polyphony notes were used-'max notes'. Now, listening to the song, a person may not 'notice' any note drop off per say, but there actually is in that song I posted. The max notes of Polyphony used at any given moment during the song was "77" notes. And being that my PSR 2000 has only 64 note Polyphony something has to give if you know what I mean- in the way of note drop off. So even though the notes of Polyphony was "77" max notes and that 'data' was recorded into the sequence when I recorded it, not all of those notes "sounds" were included "in" the song. And even though you may not be able to tell when listening to the song, some of my composition was left on the editing room "floor" so to speak. NOTE: If you try to gauge your Polyphony count of a sequenced Midi file with GNMIdi.exe you will get an inaccurate count and result. I use Yamaha's S-YXG50 Soft Synth Player which gives a true, accurate Polyphony count of any sequenced Midi file. Any Pro Soft Synth Player out there with a built-in Polyphony counter should give you the same thing.

So you might try that sometime to see if your masterpieces that you sequence are really what you intended them to be, or if their getting axed by that notorious sound editor called 'polyphony note cutoff' and some of your hard work is ending up on the 'cutting' room "floor". And if they are you may want to consider a higher note Polyphony Workstation or pester Roland to make an SRX Expansion card that will bolster the Polyphony amount. Because believe me, if you start making complex fully orchestrated Sequences, some of your sounds within those sequences are going to get the 'axe' because you will without a doubt exceed your Polyphony amount, ie., "64". Or maybe I should do this:

PS: That's why I've basically made up my mind not to get another 64 note Polyphony ANYTHING!--Arranger or otherwise type Keyboard. My opinions of course. PS: This is not intended to be a 'negative' post. What I'm trying to do is point out some "things" and try to make you and (others) aware of them and the possible limitations you may encounter on the S88, not to dissuade you from your purchase.

Another Post Script: If you become proficient in the use of the Sampler on the S88 you could theoretically drastically reduce or even eliminate those aforementioned Polyphony issues by Sampling many of your sounds within a composition. But that is added and extra work although you may eventually find it enjoyable. But for simplicity and convenience using the onboard sequencer is the easiest, quickest way to sequence a song which if you haven't ascertained it by now, you probably will in the near future.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,
Good points all. I have experienced note drops with the Motif and it's 64 note polyphony. Since that time however I started to work a different way and that is by building layers rather than doing it in one shot, which to me leaves out options compositionally and mixing/mastering.

I also use other modules etc for when I do want or need to build "big" sounds, so consequently it does not seem to effect me much if at all.

Another interesting thing out of what you said....if I can't hear the drop off and the piece still sounds right to me, then I don't have a problem with it, as long as it sounds right to my ears, the other is techie stuff that I try to avoid at all costs.

For me, the added colors to my sound palette and ease of use make the Fantom S88 a great board for me. I have never on any board I've had used the sequencer, now I do.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

It may sound right to your ears Terry but the fact is some 'important' pieces of your composition may be lost in a song you so laboriously and tediously composed and 'wanted' it to be included IN the song. That's all I'm saying is some important pieces of the puzzle may be missing because they didn't get included into the song because, quite frankly, you ran out of Polyphony. Overall the song may 'sound' okay but if we were to delve deeper we would see "hear" something missing. If a Classical piece by one of the Masters was given for the Queen of England and at the end of the piece during the Crescendo the Timpanist whose part was a major intricate part of the piece and especially at the Crescendo couldn't be heard because the Timpani even though he struck it didn't produce any sound. How would the Conductor feel? Outraged to say the least. How would the Queen of England feel if having knowledge of how the piece was suppose to sound and it didn't sound proper or the way it should? If it was in ancient times I would imagine the poor Timpanist would have lost his head over it- "literally". And probably the Conductor too. The point being I for one don't want that to continue to happen to my compositions. In your case I just wanted to make you aware of what could possibly happen to your compositions in any given or subsequent song recording on the S88. I'm glad you like the S88 and hope to "hear" more of your compositions in the future with that Board. But the Polyphony issue with the S88 is something you have to be aware of and I guess through these posts I'm bringing them to your attention again. Nuf' said.

Well maybe not.

...I too found the S/88 easy to use and navigate. Something Yamaha should stand up and take notice to when they go back to the drawing board and design their next Workstation. Hopefully the Mo' ES will be at least a little more user friendly than its predecessor. One of the big things that prevents that from happening in a more dramatic way is the smaller LCD screen of course which is the 'same' size as the original Motif.

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,
While I understand and know first hand about polyphony issues....I find it somewhat opposing positions your argument takes i.e., if you cannot hear the dropped notes .....than how could it possibly matter. If one could hear the missing timpanist then it is an issue that needs to be corrected however if one could not hear the missing timpanist then it could not possibly matter.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html