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#101986 - 07/24/03 12:04 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
PaulD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Eugene, OR
Mike,
I will suggest this to the powers to be. The question then falls, who would take the return, the dealer or Generalmusic. What would be done with these said returns (if any)? Generalmusic can not change a dealers return policy, how would this be handled? These would be questions that would need to be addressed... Any ideas?
_________________________
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

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#101987 - 07/24/03 02:15 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
Paul,

I was going to keep quiet, but since you asked...

I live in the 6th largest US city. A number of local dealers (an independent store which carries all sorts of keyboards, and a local chain) had told me they would not be ordering the Genesys range because generally (in the past) GEM keyboard had not sold well.

At this point I think it is the Generalmusic USA that would have the most to gain from offering to accept the returns (should their instruments indeed be returned) within a reasonable amount of time (e.g. 30-45 days), which is what most people here can expect when dealing with a major retailer (who unfortunately, do not carry your products). If that does not fly with your bosses, the least GEM can do is provide free units for display for at least some of your dealers (or promise to accept a return of their demo unit if it does not sell).

I think that considering that the price and the features of the upcoming competition (e.g. Korg PA1X, which is comparable in features and price, but has a better distribution channel) your company needs to move very aggressively between now and when Korg units are actually shipped, (and definitely before the Winter NAMM).

Otherwise, GEM will find itself in the same situation as it did with the WK4 - the instrument was very advanced when it came out, but the slow sales kept the company from updating it. As a result it fell behind the times.

Regards,
Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#101988 - 07/24/03 04:30 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Quote:
Originally posted by PaulD:
Terry,

I have been in Sac area several times and emailed you a couple times letting you know that I was going to be in the area, with no responce. I can look at my sent file and search thru them to tell you exactly when that was, but it was a long time ago. I have been there recently and should be in that area again in about a month. If you would like to email me again (so that I am sure I have your email address), we will hook up, so that you can see the genesys.

This is the second time that you have brought up service question with Gernalmusic. We have a 5 year warranty, the warranty centers that do Yamaha, Korg, Roland, also repair Generalmusic products. Our instruments don't have many problems, but when they do, they are taken care of, in a timly manner. Unlike some of these "Big" brand names that you throw around, we have a warehouse full of parts ready to ship if a problem does happen. I speak from experience when I tell you, other manufactures do not have a lot of parts instock here in the US, so you have to wait. I have waited 3-6 months for parts for customers when I worked retail selling those other brands. Now, don't get me wrong, some manufacutures stock some things, but ask any of the guys in retail, about how long parts take to get in. Generalmusic parts are for the most part shipped that same day. Honestly that is rare in this "right now" wharehousing. I am very happy with the level of service we give our customers, and I am very happy with the level of service our dealers give to their customers.

We are clearly a smaller company here in the US, but that isn't a bad thing. We can respond quickier to a problem, and we can listen easier to our customers. Let me point out that you are engaged in a conversation with an RSM. You will find that it is easier to get things done with a personal smaller company than with a large gaint company. Both have there good points, but as far as service, a small company can normally run circles around a large one.


Well Paul,
If you ever E'd me, I sure never got it. My E has not changed, it's still linked here. You could have posted something here on the board too that you needed me to E you or you would be in Sacto. or whatever. Could have gone to my site and sent me an E from the link there.I answer all my E mails if I get one period.

So I will E you again for the next time you are in town.

Many valid points have been made here regarding return policies and their necessity. I rarely return anything, but have returned a couple of pieces of gear and exchanged them for another piece after playing with them in my studio for a few days. Those things at store level here are then put out as opened or whatever and a discount given on them for the most part. I realize with a slim profit margin already this is hard for the retailers or companies to do however, these boards and gear are fairly complicated and it takes a few days or so to see if it is going to fit into the program. The next thing is in most of these stores, GC especially one cannot hear squat in there for all the 3 chord wonders that come in crank up the volume and keep playing the same crap over and over again for an hour in the store. When I asked them about that, they said it is the company policy to not issue headphones to all because they wanted to create excitement with all the noise. It sure is noise.

The other thing IMO is that NAMM should run another day or two say Thursday & Friday or Monday&Tuesday and those days should be for dealers only with the weekends open to the public for a fee. You guys would also have to add a couple of more locations to the itinerary, so it would be more convienent for cutomers.

Barring that perhaps mini trade shows across the country. Many companies do this....woodworking and sewing equipment as an example. Business may not always be done at these shows, but the customer then goes home and thinks about the product and many purchase later from a retailer locally, or mail order or the next time the show comes to town. I have seen some of the same booths at these shows for the last 20 years so it must be well worth it and having done these types of shows myself it is worth it, if for nothing else, the mailing list it creates.

GEM needs to do something if they want any of the US market. It's fine that George and Dan carry it but that is not going to cut it for the vast majority of potential customers in general. George is a good 8 hours from me one way, sorry but there isn't any keyboard I want or need that badly to drive 16 hours and stay overnight for.

Sorry but to me the entire sales market has changed from companies, stores, sales people really wanting one's business to acting more like they are doing us a favor by selling us their products. I think it ludicriou to me to hear someone proclaim their great customer service. I was born into and raised in retail....and today people/companies do not have even close to a clue as to what good customer service is 95% of the time IMO. There are exceptions to the rule but they are getting farther and farther in between.

The other day I had some idiot assistant manager at Staples blow me off over a $30. rebate I did not receive from them and his boss told me to come into the store and they would take care of it there if I did not get the rebate. This guy basically told me and any future business to take a hike, Fortunately for them his boss was there and made it right, otherwise they would have kissed any more business from me goodbye. And I spent the rebate plus some right there and then....what a dope. These sorts of stories to me are not the exception anymore, they are the rule by and large.

Gem I think needs to try harder and go farther if they want to sell many of the boards in the US. Arrangers to me in part have piss poor sales here, because nobody sells them, meaning if you walk into a music store, they walk you over to a workstation, not an arranger. The way for companies to combat that is to have higher visibility to the crowd they are trying to sell to. If you take a look at the mean age of the arranger players here, I would bet it has to be above 45/50, so it does not surprise me they do not sell well in a store that is basically catering to 17 year olds like GC. Not to mention the store personnel for the most part knows zero about them. I demo'd a VA76 the other day at my local M&P and a keyboard guy that's been there as long as I can remember and have been going in there 10 years or so, knew zero about the board.

I have bought 2 boards off of demos A Karma when Tom Norton demo'd it and a Motif when Blake Angelos demo'd it...if you've not seen a Blake demo.....what a shame, Blake COOKS big time. If he comes around with the new Mo Es,he'll probably convince me to buy one of those too. I think attendance may be poor at those demos because the promotion and build up of excitement around them is poor also add in a show special and you have the sales combo. As has been cited here we all would like a better deal.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-24-2003).]
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#101989 - 07/24/03 05:26 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
PaulD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Eugene, OR
Terry,

First off, I will try again when I am in town. I honestly don't know why you didn't get them. When I sent you those emails, they didn't bounce back, so I assumed you got them and or not in town, did respond.

Next, NAMM isn't open to the public, NAMM tried to open it to the public and it failed miserably, so I don't suspect that they will try this again. If you think a GC is bad, you wouldn't believe what went down when NAMM was open to the public... For those that have been to winter NAMM you know how crowded it is without the general public, with it is a mad house and what NAMM is really for, conducting business, doesn't get done.

People have a better chance at checking out the new stuff at their local music store, granted not nearly the selection that is at NAMM, but at least you could actually spend sometime with a potential instrument in a music store. The noise level at NAMM, doesn't really allow for a good audition of the products.

Generalmusic has dealers all over the place, actually there is one in the city just above you, they happen to not carry the genesys product, because of fears of stocking a high end arranger.

Regards,
Paul
_________________________
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

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#101990 - 07/24/03 07:05 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Quote:
Originally posted by PaulD:
Terry,

First off, I will try again when I am in town. I honestly don't know why you didn't get them. When I sent you those emails, they didn't bounce back, so I assumed you got them and or not in town, did respond.

I have sent you another E so you have my address in it.

Next, NAMM isn't open to the public, NAMM tried to open it to the public and it failed miserably, so I don't suspect that they will try this again. If you think a GC is bad, you wouldn't believe what went down when NAMM was open to the public... For those that have been to winter NAMM you know how crowded it is without the general public, with it is a mad house and what NAMM is really for, conducting business, doesn't get done.

I realize it isn't open to the public but was suggesting it should be. While one may not get to try the gear they can at least see it and know what is available. As it stands now, we're at the whim of the buyers as to what they will or will not carry. Your product is a oerfect example of that....even with your dealer 1 1/2 hours away from me.

People have a better chance at checking out the new stuff at their local music store, granted not nearly the selection that is at NAMM, but at least you could actually spend sometime with a potential instrument in a music store. The noise level at NAMM, doesn't really allow for a good audition of the products.

The noise level at GC doesn't either or any other music store I've ever been in.

Generalmusic has dealers all over the place, actually there is one in the city just above you, they happen to not carry the genesys product, because of fears of stocking a high end arranger.

They should at least be someone you put a demo Genesys in for potential buyers to see. Even though IMO they are still too far of a drive to see the board I would go 1 1/2 hours rather than the 8 to Kaye's place.
Terry

Regards,
Paul





------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#101991 - 07/24/03 07:20 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Paul,
Gee you forgot to mention this little feature of the Gem-club.com
Terry

Membership Costs


GEMClub Online is run as a non profit making club and proceeds directly support the club infrastructure which in turn helps our members. Membership is only 35 {approx 49 EURO or US$57} per year, offering unlimited and free access to our new site and all the treasures it contains. (Membership Cost in other currencies)

To join, you simply need to complete the online Membership Form, or print out the PDF version and send via post.



Flexible Payment options include PayPal, Bank Transfer, Cheque (drawn on UK bank), Standing Order or Postal Order. Credit and Debit Cards are accepted via PayPal.

Further payment details and information may be obtained from here.






------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#101992 - 07/25/03 05:53 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 07-25-2003).]

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#101993 - 07/25/03 09:47 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I am happy to see that you all agree
that the Genesys is a great instrument.
In Europe they are sold very well. Why the
US are in the middleages at this point is not
understandable.
We hope the Americans will have a better
future.

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#101994 - 07/25/03 12:18 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
My comment was a little bit harsh and unfair so I will paraphrase.

High end arrangers from Yamaha, Roland and General Music are displayed only in very few places. They are generally successful small store owners who understand these keyboards and BELIEVE in them; and therefore, they can sell them.

Unfortunately, these people are very few in the US and they may not be in the actual major city. One has to drive to another rural city, hours away, to see the keyboard in action.

I bought SK880 by reading the spec on the net.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 08-01-2003).]

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#101995 - 07/25/03 02:01 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Bill E Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 223
Loc: nashville
I did get a quick try out of the Genesys Pro at NAMM and I did the like the accomp. section. The Reggae styles were outstanding and the sound was good through the headphones. I liked what little I heard better than the Tyros or the Technics, I thought that it was closer to the Pa1x or the Ketron, in the very little that I was able to hear. The GEM looked and felt good. It only had one button for endings, but it played a different ending depending on which of the four variations you were on when you pressed the ending button. I would have liked to have spent more time with it, worth checking out ( if you can find one! )

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