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 Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view) (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view) |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-03-2010 03:59 PM
  
! [This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Diki Member |
posted 02-03-2010 05:56 PM
That's kind of cool, I've heard many of the factory Karma demos before, but I wonder if you are taking into account the overall genre bias that Karma's content tends to have..? On the whole, I am not sure I would like to go out and gig with a Karma based keyboard without a TON of preparation, probably a LOT more than I would need to get either an arranger together, or the prep time to do the job with SMF's. What Karma does is exceeding cool, but I just have always felt it is set up much more for techno and electronica fans than general gigging guys. While there are a FEW jazz GE's, it's hardly the main thrust of the content. And even fewer rock, R&B (old school!), disco, alt rock, etc.. You know, the things we often get asked to play. Perhaps you are lucky enough to do a lot of Muse, or the more modern electronica bands, but I'm afraid that, for probably the large majority of arranger users, Karma isn't really set up for our type of playing styles... IP: Logged |
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Nedim Member |
posted 02-03-2010 07:37 PM
quote: Its a totally wrong statement and i am not saying this on my opinion, i am saying it IP: Logged |
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Diki Member |
posted 02-04-2010 02:05 AM
I'd be curious to hear what is being played live on Karma. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT putting Karma down - I've used a bit in its' early form, was VERY interested for a while that there was a software version that ran on my old Mac, but it never got ported to OSX (AFAIK), and have spent quite a bit of time in my local store playing an M3. The thing is, I just never found much in the M3's presets that I thought 'I can go gig with this' other than the odd preset. I need dozens upon dozens of styles to not sound repetitive (I might do a dozen folk/rock tunes, and wouldn't want the same style for all of them!), and, I'm sorry, but I never found enough in the M3's presets that wouldn't necessitate using one GE a LOT... As with most other things that try to better the arranger, all I ever want to hear and see is someone actually doing it... Not just 'one off' factory demos, but people really using Karma to gig with, playing music that I (and my audiences) can relate to. I'd LOVE to see some links, perhaps some of your OWN music on Karma, to get a better feel for what you are trying to say. Perhaps I'm a little dense, but I am very much a 'show me' not a 'tell me' kind of guy. I am very open to being shown to be wrong, but, as always, unwilling to be simply TOLD... Unlike the MS, Karma IS something I HAVE had an opportunity to play with. So, if someone says that something can be done that I couldn't figure out for myself in the store, I would REALLY like to see it in action. IP: Logged |
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FransN Member |
posted 02-04-2010 07:33 AM
Yes I would also like to hear or see some demo's. Because if this is all true my next update will be a M3. I also thought that Karma is the best for techno and trance music. IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-04-2010 08:27 AM
I think Karma is an awesoem tool for people that want to create their own music and perform with it.. For people that Perform in a OMB arrangers and styles are way more suited. Also for people starting out with keyboards Karma will be overwhelming. But for pro's KARMA is a true tool of inspiration en ingenuity. It challenges their creativity.
Personally I think that KARMA would be a great addition to any TOTL arranger, but not a replacement, only an extra thing to add more indepth tracks to the styles.. IP: Logged |
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ianmcnll Member |
posted 02-04-2010 09:24 AM
quote: That's probably it's best use. I also think it would be great for video soundtracks. Ian IP: Logged |
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Irishacts Member |
posted 02-04-2010 11:49 AM
Karma really is the next evolution as it gives you a freedom that you don't get from Styles. KARMA almost gives you that fully Sequneced sound in a live situation that constantly adapts to what you play. The actual notes you play and how long you hold them are all part of how KARMA generates different elements in real-time. Unlike a Style which is a locked patteren. Here me playing straight piano for example. http://www.youtube.com/irishacts#p/u/6/gGwH7E_fn6c You can see when I turn on KARMA. As I said, it really is the next evolution, but for now I think it's too much for arranger users as it requires an entire change of attitude and approach. Regards IP: Logged |
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Nedim Member |
posted 02-04-2010 12:30 PM
Diki, i dont mean no disrespect but understand what i am saying you need the have the KARMAknowledge i have, then it will be easier, KARMA addopts to you, not you to it. If i record something for you thats what YOU use and play you will think its edited and i also dont have any you tube recording of someone live so you win both ways. But as James said, yes, it is the only thing of Arranger Evolution next, nothing else. IP: Logged |
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Nedim Member |
posted 02-04-2010 12:32 PM
And watching James play Piano here with an Electronic Combi, it can do the same with a Style that you would use but a lot more. You also get 8 VARS/FILLS or whatever you program them to be thats how they would act. Stephen promised new update where a scene will be programmed to act as a FILL IN on an arranger which already exist in the KARMA OL version but not on M3 yet. Cueing on how to and where to go after changing scene its already probably better then on an Arranger and same with Chord changing. KARMA is not only BEATS, it can generate things for your Solo too, like Guitars or Wind instruments...many people think KARMA only does beats and thats it...no, it can controll your Solo playing, it can controll the FX processors, it can give you LOWER PAD and many more things you cant even imagine...i just bought a camera, if i have time i will record some video of some popular song that you will play, i will create the GEs too and then you would probably see and better understand the concept of KARMA. Online and PRO done video demonstrations cannot really give you a full concept since they are made to actually let you know what they want you to know, its different from a users point of view, something used on a daily basis, not recorded in a Video Studio somewhere. [This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
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FransN Member |
posted 02-04-2010 02:11 PM
We will see what the future brings us. Maby Korg will put it in their new arrangers maby not. And I agree at the moment it would be a great addition to any keyboard not a replacement. IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-04-2010 02:35 PM
quote: Next PAX3 with Karma.... Somehow i get the feeling that Korg is done with Karma, Kay is currently not doing any work at all for Korg (According too his website), while certainly The M4 and PA3X (next generation KORGS) must be in development for a long time now... But then every company can buy KArma and add it to their keyboards... IP: Logged |
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Diki Member |
posted 02-04-2010 03:54 PM
quote: IF they can afford the licensing, and IF their CPU is powerful enough to run what they already are doing AND the Karma overhead... But I agree that Karma is a great ADDITION to the 'arranger way', but not a great substitution for it, unless one only does what it does well (and invests a LONG time making new GE's for music it doesn't as yet address well). It seems that many are looking for something different, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater strikes me as counter-productive. We need things like Karma, VSTi players etc. in One can only hope, though... IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-04-2010 10:04 PM
quote: I agree.. They need to add KARMA in the same way they added Sequencers long ago to arrangers..and not only add it, bit also integrate it with the arranger part, but certainly not replace it.. The other big missing part on Keyboards these days is VSTi's, they should not replace the sound engine of a keyboard but be added as an extra feauture. I personally would create an interface on the keyboard that controlls the VStís running on a sepperate computer. with a gigabit Ethernet connection to transport controll signals to PC and music/sound data/tracks back to the keyboard. Or route the local sounds through the vsti's processing and effects. IP: Logged |
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cgiles Member |
posted 02-05-2010 04:23 AM
Starting to sound a lot like a Mediastation. chas IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-05-2010 04:45 AM
quote: Somehow i get the feeling that you missed a point or two..... Not everything that incorporates both VSt's and styles is like a mediastation... Its much more like the approach of Wersi, but then with an intuitive interface and no VSTí limitations, and an added KARMA engine offcourse. Point is, the arranger and basic sound engine needs to be on par with the current Arrangers, and thats exactly where Mediastations weak spot is... Their giga sounds are not spectacular, and there is no huge library of top quallity styles. But then this has allready been stated many times before and Lionstracs is now wisely aiming at a different (non arranger) market. [This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-05-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Spalding 4 Member |
posted 02-05-2010 08:51 AM
I have yet to hear anything from a Karma driven product that sounded like music a human being would make. Music driven by complex algorithms that don’t actually rely upon established musical phrases and timing just doesn’t get my juices flowing at all. Part of the beauty in an arranger is that you always know the changes and progressions and "feel" of the music before hand and they will be natural and predictable even when the style variations add that Variable element, the music still follows licks and passages and timing suitable for the genre of music. I have not heard a Karma driven funk style or jazz style or blues style yet that actualy sounded like a funk, jazz or blues session player was playing. With the multitude of styles available both free and commercial at very affordable prices (like free) even if you get bored with a style you can get 12 more very easily. I am open to persuasion but like so many musical ideas that are driven by technological advance, the potential hardly ever materialises into something musically better than what has already been done.Mr Kay has gone to great lengths to distance the Karma function from arranger type keyboards. I suspect that is more to do with the fact of the limitations of the technology in terms of generating genuine variability that is not just interestingly musical but authentic and human and beautiful. Obviously if Sharp or Nedim have some examples of this i am not set in my thinking. Its just that noone to my knowledge has. [This message has been edited by Spalding 4 (edited 02-05-2010).] IP: Logged |
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ailev Member |
posted 02-07-2010 02:22 PM
I have now Korg M3-76 and Roland G-70 (and many other arrangers before: Roland VA-76, Yamaha PSR9000 etc.). I turned on my G-70 a couple of times past 2 years. I use Korg M3-73 every day all this time. I am not prefer trance or hip-hop. I like jazz and rock. One thing that I miss at Korg M3-73 and have in Roland G-70 is Bossa-Nova (but there is several sambas). This is not technical fault, this is problem of absence of factory Bossa-Nova style ("combo") and my laziness to program it or to find it somewhere in internet. IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-08-2010 09:55 AM
! [This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Diki Member |
posted 02-08-2010 03:50 PM
quote: Any chance of hearing how well you are doing? I must confess, I'm with spalding on this one... Yes, Karma is always doing something a bit different, but most of the styles (whoops! Sorry. GE's The 'rules' for genuine guitar playing are FAR more complex than any simple (or not so simple) conditionally random algorithm. So much so that some arrangers are now responding by 'cheating' and using actual recordings of guitarists.... Drums strike me as perhaps simple enough to get away with Karma's randomness (but I bet a drummer would disagree with me!), but I think spalding hit the nail on the head. It's interesting, it HAS variety, but at the cost of really correct idiomatic playing. Most of the music that arranger players in general play is based around REAL players, form the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's, before MTV made it impossible for ugly but talented players to get a deal But, as I said, I am always VERY interested in HEARING real users prove me misguided. Got some live Karma jazz, or rock, for us to hear what you are telling us? IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-08-2010 04:04 PM
! [This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).] IP: Logged |
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sam.safran Member |
posted 02-09-2010 01:24 AM
I think that an optimal arranger would be one with styles as we know it and with Karma that would provide some variation and "improvisation" of some of the style tracks in real time. That way, we do not lose the huge and often very worthwhile efforts that companies have invested in the styles that are musically interesting. But we also gain a way to provide variation of some of the tracks in the style so they do not repeat. In short: the style provides the basis that is varied by Karma. Can this be done? IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-09-2010 02:03 AM
quote: As i said... This can be done, as quote from the creator of KARMA Steven Kay. But Korg has not shown any interest yet intoo adding Karma to an arranger in this way according to him. He currently also has no intentions of adding Full arranger style integration intoo KARMA (the other way around), which also can be done, but then Karma could be named just another type of arranger and thats something he wants to prevent. But your point is taken, as i said exactly the same before in other words, we fully agree on this, and now its up to KORG to add this to their next generation of arranger(Which also should have audio drums and tracks) that way we get close to perfection. [This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 02-09-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-10-2010 03:18 PM
! [This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).] IP: Logged |
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keysvocalssax Member |
posted 02-10-2010 03:38 PM
MJ, I'm taking into consideration that u r a beginner and don't phrase in the beat. nevertheless, i fail to hear what the karma is doing. where is the variety in the background? seems pretty repetitious, and very boring. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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keysvocalssax Member |
posted 02-10-2010 03:41 PM
oh and i didn't hear anything in James" rendition with the piano controller either that was at all interesting, and he is an accomplished pianist.what am i missing? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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ianmcnll Member |
posted 02-10-2010 09:34 PM
Mystic Jammer...this is rather plain, and I hope not representative of Karma. It reminds me a bit of Yamaha's Ethereal Movie Ballad, a free play style which sounds far better and interesting to my ears. Perhaps if Karma was added to a style, it would have more aural impact...does the M3 have styles? Ian IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-10-2010 10:11 PM
! [This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).] IP: Logged |
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spalding1968 Member |
posted 02-10-2010 11:41 PM
the only example of Karma being actually used was the last example. The rest were all sequenced songs. Frank McCombe is just an awesome player and producer ! I am not convinced that Karma is ready to be used in arranger play for conventional music . I.E Music that doesnt sound like a computer made it. [This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 02-11-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-11-2010 04:25 AM
quote: No it's not and it's why i said FUTURE and not present so maybe you gave me your view of the future and stop telling it's not ready as it's evident that it's not, there's not even an arranger that have that function, only WS!!! so again it IS or can be the future of arranger as i'm sure things won't stay as static as they are now, we need dynamic stuff like Karma but adapted to the arranger world.... All that said with a nice smile as it's so easy to misinterpret emotion on a forum Have a nice day everyone IP: Logged |
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Bachus Member |
posted 02-11-2010 09:18 AM
quote: Problem with Karma is that its much more complicated to use/program then an arpeggiator or Arranger. While the demo's sound great and people like Stephen Kay and Jordan Rudes made some great performaces on the KARMA, its not yet usable for all and everyone with less musicall knowledge. Next to that the musicall styles most arranger players use are based on static patterns, Waltzes Foxtrots and Polka's don't have much use for random patterns. Maybe one track with a little randomness to make your music more lively.. But many modern and Jazzy music styles have much more use for this randomness, people that love to improvise will greatly appreciate Karma, more basic musicians that just like to play/copy the orriginall music will not have that much use for it. I can see many good things about Karma, but i am currently wondering if KARMA gets time enough to be further developed for Korg, Kay is currently doing a huge project to implement KARMA on Openlabs and is allready 9 months overdue. Korg may even choose to step back to an ordinairy Arpeggiator with their next top model. Opinions over the success of Karma diferentiate from person to person. I really like the possibilities of KARMA but do performing musicians of all kinds and studio's have much use for KARMA. IP: Logged |
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cgiles Member |
posted 02-11-2010 09:30 AM
quote: Dude, please take this as constructive criticism and not as a malicious post. First, I'm only posting this because it sounds like, from your post, that you think this is a 'passable' performance. Trust me, it is not. The biggest and most obvious problem is the rhythm. Advice - better to hit a 'clunker' in the right place than to hit the correct chord in the wrong place. For one thing, you would never be able to play with anybody in the world. It is questionable (in my mind) whether musicality (rhythm, pitch, taste - knowing whether or not something sounds good) can even be learned. I know a few people who have none of the above but still love music. I think that's great, but realistically, they will never become even mediocre musicians. The lucky ones learn that early on. For instance, most kindergartners can sing simple songs both in tune and rhythmically correct. If you can't do that by the time you've reached adulthood, chances are, music is not for you (other than to enjoy at some level other than actually playing it). One of the 'problems' with today's synths and workstations (and arrangers) is that they are capable of incredibly pretty sounds. Throw in automatic arpeggiators, 'Karma', styles, etc., and they can convince some very unmusical people that they have musical talent or at the very least, are capable of making beautiful music. In the early days of computers, there was a saying, "garbage in, garbage out". That also applies to today's wonder machines known as Workstations and Arrangers. Here is what I would suggest. Give yourself another year??? and then re-access your progress - or better yet, have someone you trust not to feed you bulls--t, do it for you. If you don't like what they have to say, get another neutral but honest opinion. If it turns out that you're in that unlucky 1% than can't carry a tune or keep a beat, then take the money you were going to spend on the next 'latest, greatest' workstation, combined with the money from the sale of your M3, and treat yourself (or your spouse, if applicable) to something else you want (get a pilot's license - aviation is a great, if expensive, hobby). I hope you don't find this post too hurtful as it was not intended that way, but sometimes it's in the best interest of an individual for someone to step up and inject a bit of honesty into a situation. I apologize in advance if this post offended you. It's intent was to make you aware of something you may not have been aware of. chas IP: Logged |
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spalding1968 Member |
posted 02-11-2010 09:48 AM
I hear you Bachus but its the randomness of Karma that makes it impractical for arranger play and most conventional music. No matter what mathmatical equations and parameters and rules concerning the range of notes , the velocity the sustain the tempo etc that all go into making a simple piece of music ,you cant programme imagination , you cant programme creativity and you cant programme musicality. You can fake it which is what arrangers do to a great extent by having set phrases and passages playedby skilled real musicians and having 3,4,5, or whatever number of preprogrammed variations that are provided. You can only programme music that obeys certain pre selected rules to govern the sounds that it produces which might make something that is remotely musical but it does not make it 'tasty'. Even for music like Jazz Karma is no use. Musicians who improvise do not play random notes that obey mathematical rules for the sake of obeying those mathematical rules. The notes and phrasing is intentional not random! ! They play phrases or single notes that are in context with what was played before and after but diferent and tasty! Thats why korg and yamaha hire true musicians to play styles. You cant program authentic musicianship. You can only copy it that. Only experience provides the skill in the first place. Muscicians play phrases that are appropriate for the groove and tempo of a piece that are actually not just musical but pleaseing to the ear and speak to you. You cant programme a piece of computer software to develope 'skill' and taste and style and appropriate phrasing and creativity. Intelligent technology is still light years away from actually producing anything with even the intelligence of a worm much less a skilled musician . Karma may well be the future for music and arrangers but that is more likely be because music wont be made by musicians as we currently know them but by people who think tweaking knobs and altering modulation and filters is making music. That in my opinion will be a sad day for music. IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-11-2010 09:50 AM
Chas, i'm not offended and nothing but i don't agree with you. anyway thing is my rhythm is crappy because i'm overwelm with all this keyboard stuff, i'm VERY good at rhythms, i even gave advanced course in rhythms and percussions but i will have to be patient until i get over this harmony,notes.... stuff When i started with hands drums i was also having much difficulty, took me many month to be able to get a simple rhythm stable but i have a very strong will and got over that with many thousand hours of practice And now again i'm against a wall but it's no problem, it will take the times it take to get over it, it's only a matter of times and nothing else!!! I agree that somes peoples are not musically inclined as me (or any other forms of art can suffer this also) BUT i disagree that they can't succeed, the only thing that make someone fail is when he stop. Remember there is no try, do it or don't do it but don't try !!! i got over so many of my limitations with years that i can say that we have very little of them, it's just a matter to overcame them. I hope you also don't find hurtful to being told that but your truth is only yours and it can be very different for other peoples. Have fun IP: Logged |
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Irishacts Member |
posted 02-11-2010 10:57 AM
Hi Guys. Reading through this there I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of what KARMA is. KARMA can function exactly like an arranger minus the fillin, intro/ending functions. On KARMA you have to actually select the Scenes (variations to you guys). So you have to manually press the button where you guys don't. You can for example pull a factory style from the Pa2X and convert it into GE's which can be assigned to a COMBI sound. In short, that single COMBI sound is now both sounds and performs exactly like an arranger keyboard. Where you guys are getting lost is everything I've just said above is about 5% of what KARMA has to offer. It can do the basic style thing you guys are used to, and then if you want it can go WAY further. The Random side to KARMA is not what you guys think either. There's no unknown random side to it, it's all totally controllable and assignable. Meaning you can take a predictable style and by moving a few faders build hear the same style playing back now as a new variation of the original. Much like you guys hear when you press the variation button only there is no limit to how far you can go with this. You can use it to generate variations of the original, or you can push it to make entirly new styles. So picture this, you load up an 8 Beat from a PA2X and instead of you guys writing styles, you simply share settings that turn the style into countless others. Again, I'm still only scratching this surface of what it can do. As for why it does not exactly come from the factory preloaded with the typical type of content you guys are looking for is simple. KARMA is implemented on Workstations and not Arrangers. If it was implanted on an Arranger then the GE's would be more suited to the type of music you guys play. The technology doesn't necessarily have to change, just the content it comes with. A learning curve is required, but the same can be said about any sort of progarmming be it writing GE's or Styles. Regards IP: Logged |
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cgiles Member |
posted 02-11-2010 11:06 AM
quote: I don't find it hurtful at all. In fact I agree with you 100% on that point. Furthermore, if something is very important to you, you should by all means, pursue it, but with eyes wide open. Truth is, I admire people with lots of patience and will power. I, myself, am on the verge of giving up on learning even the basics of drumming, something I started a couple of months ago but have only practiced about 3 times chas IP: Logged |
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Mystic Jammer Member |
posted 02-11-2010 11:33 AM
quote: I suggest that you gave it a try again, and yeah drumming is hard but the payback are awesome, and as i allways say to people starting in rhythms just go slower, a fast rhythms is often what stop us to follow; just slow down until you got it Lot of luck to you IP: Logged |
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spalding1968 Member |
posted 02-11-2010 04:41 PM
James help me understand then what Karma does. Say i am playing a funk groove 8 bar looped and that funk phrase may have dead notes, slides and picks in it. But it wont have 2 bars of dead notes or 2 bars of slides etc. The combination thats makes up the phrase is what has been programmed by a real musician and lets say that groove is called scene 1 (which in an arranger might be termed variation 1.) If i dont change from Scene 1 does karma keep playing the same groove unchanged for as long as that scene is selected ? And when i move the sliders how then does karma make a new variation that is in keeping with the style and tasty but different ? If it can be altered please explain how karma does that without the use of algorithms that determine how the notes that are added (that you did not play into the instrument yourself ) are triggered. I have been all over youtube and the korg website itself and i cant find any examples of of Karma sounding anything like a genuine 'real ' musician. I am truly interested . Cheers [This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 02-11-2010).] IP: Logged |
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Irishacts Member |
posted 02-11-2010 05:59 PM
quote: Take your pick. You can restrict KARMA to play the variation exactly like an arranger in that it always plays the same notes and responds to Chord Changes just like a normal arranger. Or.... another example, you know the way bass inversions work, well imagine your entire style responding exactly like bass inversions work. Or.... to go all out, you can have it fully respond to chord changes, inversions and controllers. On top of all that, we still haven't even hit on it's ability to do random things yet.
quote: There are many ways you can do it, for example Swing Shift a GE and then activate the note repeat settings. The more of both effects you apply the more the Style will alter. You can add all sorts of things on the back of that to go much further. For example, note repeat and octave. Depending on how much note repeat you apply, KARMA might play a certain note more than once, and using the Octave function it might start scaling up through inversions and octaves of the notes being played. That's just some of the straight forward functions. Soon as you start turning on the Random functions you can create everything from variations of the style playing to a completely new style. It all depends on how much you allow it to run free. In all cases you have full control though. KARMA's freedom is based on the users settings.
quote: Not sure what you mean by real musican since an arranger is an automated and as locked down as you can get. Karma can do that too, but improvise. So it can sound far more real than anything an arranger can do. Maybe why you haven't seen this on your search through YouTube is simply because your listening to Workstations doing what Workstatoin do. The GE's that come with KARMA on a workstation are fro the type of music these people play. That said, there are some factory sounds on the OASYS that offer things like Straight Country beats. It's not the sort of thing you will hear workstation users using though. Regards IP: Logged |
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Diki Member |
posted 02-11-2010 07:36 PM
quote: I'd be fascinated to hear some of the country Karma stuff, James (and any other 'real-world' examples). A bit of basic demonstration (leave off the right hand altogether unless it triggers Karma's actions, perhaps?) showing the potential for variation that does mimic what REAL players do. I'm sure you didn't QUITE mean that first sentence, as I'm sure you understand that, although the arranger's performance might be locked down, exceptional care was taken in its' creation to be VERY accurate idiomatically to what a real player would play. What several of us are asking, I think, is just exactly HOW do you create rules for Karma that ensure that what IT generates past the basic pattern input in the first place (which can be as real as arranger patterns - often made on MIDI guitars, drum kits, etc.) is still idiomatic to the instrument it emulates..? Can you restrict it to only certain voicings that are guitar accurate? Can you restrict the drums to only play what is humanly possible? You obviously have quite a bit of experience with it... do you find yourself making Karma the main base of a composition if you are trying for a real-world sound, or do you still find yourself reaching for the PA2X when you want to lay something down? How do you consider the differences, weaknesses and strengths, beteen arranger use and Karma? IP: Logged |
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) don't tend to fool me that REAL players are playing. They definiytely make me feel I am not being overwhelmed with repetition, but that variety doesn't come ON TOP of what would be expected if a REAL guitarist, a REAL horn player, a REAL bass player would do. 