BK-9 parameter hold issues

Posted by: Bill Lewis

BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/23/20 07:35 AM

Welcome back !! Made my day to see your return clap
OK here's your first question, a bit long. I too love my 2 BK9's and Bk7m.
On my BK9 I have a main Preforamce list of 82 Styles, most with OT settings so a Style can be used for multiple songs.
I would like for:
ALL the Styles to share the same settings of :
Arranger Settings - Zone / Whole Type / Standard
D beam buttons to all be Sound EFX / Applause and Control / ABass Acc )n-Off
Global - Preformance Hold settings of D Beam / On and Arr. Type / On
Turn on the BK9 and check the settings and some are still wrong. I have gone thru all 82 Styles and written the settings I want but there are still changes. HELP !
Posted by: Diki

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/23/20 04:32 PM

I must confess, I tend to use the Performance List on a song by song basis. Even if two songs share basically the same everything, I use a different Perf. for both. Later, if I decide one could use something the other doesn’t need, I don’t have to remember what songs all use the same Perf.

This gives me two advantages... my song list is in alphabetical order, and each song can have everything just the way I want it.

About the only thing I use the Performance Hold on is Arranger Mode, which I only ever set to Pianist2. And I still have to remember to reset it if I use the Organ Mode (it sets it to Standard no matter if hold is on). Fortunately, hit Piano Mode when done with Organ Mode and it switches back to Pianist2.

I’ll do a bit of messing around and see if I can come up with a way to lock all your preferred settings, but I have a feeling some of them can’t be done. About the only easy way I can think of doing it is simply to make a Template Performance with all your favorite settings dialed in, then just START with it every time you make a new Performance. Save under a new name every time and your Template stays the same...

Hope this helps (a bit!)
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/24/20 11:49 AM

The way I do it is choose a Style for a song. Edit it and work on various OT settings for variations. Then when I find other songs that can share that Style I just put the # of the Style from the Preformace list on the song in my IPad. That way any number of songs can share a Style
But trying to get all the Styles to just have some of the same settings as in Arr. Type and Whole keyboard is frustrating.
Hope you can find the fix I appreciate any help
Posted by: TedS

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/24/20 12:32 PM

What about the iPad apps like Roland's BK-partner and Gesini GERD? Wasn't the intent to make it easier to view and manage registrations?

I actually downloaded the BK-partner but I confess, I haven't ever connected my iPad to the BK-9 so I'm curious myself!
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/24/20 03:14 PM

Ipad apps just do basic editing. What is good is they let you do the edits much quicker and save wear on your keyboard. I should use them more. But that doesn't solve the problem of holding the edits you make. As i wrote to Diki I went thru all 82 Styles I use and saved the edits, turned on Preformance hold parameters and its seems some still revert to the old settings.
Posted by: Diki

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/26/20 12:50 PM

Don’t forget, there are two different Hold sections, one for the Performance, one for the OTS. And you also have to avoid the Mode buttons like the plague, because they will override almost any damn Hold you have on.

Have you checked into the Save as Default section as well?

That’s basically the same as the old Startup Performance on the G/E series. Set a Performance up EXACTLY the way you want, ‘Save as Default’ and every time you switch on, it’s ready to go.

If you are trying to store everything in the style itself, that’s not really how Roland’s roll 😂 You’ve really got to think in terms of the Performance List. It’s your passport to full control...
Posted by: Diki

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/26/20 12:53 PM

And if you decide to go full Performance List based style or song selection, yes, the BK-9 Performance Editor is a great boon. It will be faster to dial in 80 or so entries using that rather than menu diving on the arranger itself..!
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/27/20 07:09 AM

Thanks for the info. No I haven't looked at the Save as Default function. Does it mean all the Styles will follow the Preformance settings of the current selelcted Style ?. Wow, if so that would of saved me a ton of editing.
BTW yesterday I got frustated adn turned off all the Preformance holds I had put on. So far it seemed to work. Maybe I over thought things when I started messing around with the Preformance Holds.
Posted by: Diki

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 08/28/20 02:45 PM

All styles already follow the Performance settings. All Save as Default does is ensure they are loaded when you first switch on. You could as easily (well, almost as easily!) simply select the first Performance in a Performance List and write it to have everything the way you like.

Roland’s don’t really load anything when you select a style, unless you switch on the OTS. The style simply slots into the current Performance. About the only thing you have to manually set up is whether the Tempo is set to Preset or Auto in the Menu>Performance Edit>Arranger Settings>Tempo. For some weird reason this won’t store.

I generally set it to Auto, which selects the style’s default tempo if selected while stopped, and keeps the current tempo if the style is selected while playing. For me that’s mostly what I’d need.

But if you need a specific tempo when loading a style that’s different from the ROM style, that’s where you need to load in a Performance using that style with the tempo set where you want it. You CAN edit a style’s default tempo, but you can’t store that edit back to the ROM slot. Mind you, if you are selecting your styles from a folder on the stick, yes, you can use the Common page in the Makeup Tools to set the style’s default tempo.

All in all, if you are still playing ‘old school’ and selecting your sounds and styles on the fly, I’m afraid the modern generation of arrangers are too complex to easily do that. Sure back in the day of a hundred or so sounds and a few dozen styles, no complex effects and basic arranger control, we used to be able to do that. Now we have thousands of sounds, hundreds if not thousands of styles and sequences, hundreds of effect settings split over eight or more different processors..! It’s overwhelming.

But calling ONE Performance up per song (or even using adjacent Performances for Verse, Bridge, Solo etc.) allows you to set the stuff up in advance, then come time to perform, there’s no hunting around for each thing, make one selection and done! I want to concentrate on my audience and simply playing. The rest is a waste of time IF you can do it in advance...
Posted by: AlwaysaPlanB

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 03/13/21 10:17 AM

The failure to make Tempo Auto the default is worse than weird to me, it is a basic failure of the operating system. It is such a fundamental part of using the keyboard live...and choosing to make it default to Preset rather than the much more flexible Auto is patently obtuse.
But as others have noted, Roland is not going to do anything about it now, so it seems it’s either suck it up...or go to a different brand and then discover what idiosyncrasies they have up their sleeves!
Posted by: Diki

Re: BK-9 parameter hold issues - 04/21/21 10:43 PM

Bit late to this point, but the Preset/Auto thing is just something you set once then it stays until power-down. So it's really not a deal-breaker in the big picture.

And if you think about it, it's not really a cut and dry question. Sure, if you are auditioning styles for a particular song, or changing style mid-song and want the same tempo, Auto is the way to go. But if you were auditioning styles and WANTED to hear them at the default tempo (so ballads were slower, for instance) the Preset is the better mode, or you would have to stop the arranger before you selected any new style.

It's just one of those things that can't please everyone all the time, and Roland had to make a decision. Yes, in a perfect world, every last parameter would get remembered, but we don't live in that world. You can find odd decisions in any keyboard, you look hard enough!

For me, if I'm working with styles, I simply remember to change the setting when I first start the keyboard if I want Auto. Not the end of the world, honestly! I've had to do much more complicated things with other keyboards in the past (don't get me started about my Kurzweil!) LOL