Korg XE 20

Hi,

Anyone tried one yet?

I have a Korg Havian that I keep at home, but I'm looking mainly for a digital piano to take out of the house for jam sessions/gigs with a jazz band. I wouldn't have to have an arranger, but it sure nice to have just in case ....

Anyways seems to like the Casio Privia 3000, Yamaha DGX , and this Korg XE 20 are the main options for a portable digital piano with arranger capabilities.

If anyone is still out there, any thoughts? Thanks!

Hi Paul! I personally haven't tried the XE20. By "portable," what kind of size and weight do you have in mind? How many keys? You also mentioned the Yamaha DGX. Most if not all of these have built-in speakers. Is this a requirement? If so, how powerful does it have to be for the venues you have in mind?

I've also been mulling options for a lightweight, ultra-portable arranger. I'm NOT a pianist (strictly a LH chords, RH melody kind of guy.) But some brands might do better than others at having their styles "follow" the song when you play with both hands and no split. You'll have to get input from others on that aspect of these boards' performance. Good subject, following!!

Played a few times. Not recommended IMHO.. No where near Havian ( Pa300 with better 88 keys). Down grade from Havian.



Xe20 is ek50 with Korg b1 keys ( entry level $499 digital piano) with additional piano sounds ( german/ Italian).
Arranger polyphony is still 64 and almost none editing abilities except for set list. Havian was full pa300 touch screen with better editing/ song book, etc.

The only selling point for xe20 is portable/ plays SMF/ Wav and Mp3 without loading from USB drive and L/ R outputs. Zero to none (even though they are now adding) ( pa80 / 50/ microarranger generation) style support. Remember, the styles were busier ( mainly due to over complex fills and bass lines sometimes that you can’t just mute Acc tracks). Korg styles got better after Pa3x/Pa900/600 generation. This was 2 generation before ( before PA1x generation).
DGX 670 is miles ahead but heavier. Will load psr styles, have mic input with efx, etc. has blue tooth but no stereo outs and doesn’t play Mp3. ( will play Wav and SMF). I believe user style creation feature and Bluetooth audio is there as well.

Both lacks physical midi in/outs so can’t use as 88 key controller unless you are hooking up with computer or converter box which will cost you 80/100$.

Since you already have Havian, the only good this is to use as song player (smf/Wav/mp3) and use is as live. Havian it light 33Ibs, but xe 20 is lighter, 25lbs. No joy stick like Havian either.

Jamman, you definitely curbed my enthusiasm. LOL

I am mainly wanting a stand alone portable digital piano - the arranger features would be icing on the cake.

I'd be happy with good acoustic pianos sounds and a nice Rhodes sound.

The DGX seems to bulky. Maybe I should direct my attention to the Casio Previa?

Take a look at the Numa Compact 2X. Organ with drawbars, piano, and synth, small , 88 keys, 16 lbs. 5 pin midi and $699 Might fit the bill

Thanks Bill. That looks interesting. I don't play a lick of organ, so I don't even know what I'd do with drawbars! It would be fun to learn though.

Numa Compact 2X.

I’ve never been able to play organ well on weighted piano keys… the lightness and short throw of the keybed is integral to how the Hammond is played. And you can really tear your hands up doing lots of glisses and palm smears on piano shaped keys with that protruding lip!

Casio piano sounds is acceptable but styles are GM quality with 2 variations.

There is none in the market that is light weight 88keys with gigable arranger functionality. Havian was the last that is light weight 88 key arranger. Xe20 as I mentioned is not on the same league.

Light weight portable piano will be Yamaha p121 ( 20 lbs) or Roland fp30x.
None of those has real arranger functions nor have midi in/ outs. Yamaha is 73 kys and light/ Roland has great super natural piano sounds but most complain about escapement key mechanism ( unlike real piano’s)which lags you down for fast licks. With IOS apps both have basic chord following rhythms. Yamaha needs cable and Roland has Bluetooth midi and audio ( meaning you can stream songs from phone). It’s the updated version of fp30.

But none has ease of plug and play XE20’s song play ( Smf/mp3 and wav). Why they are not ideal as playback/ arranger machines. Just portable pianos. They ( p121/fp30x) lack onboard transpose buttons ( need multiple button pressing if you are not hooked to IOS device).


The other option is to get used p85/95/ and go to midi module route, but again , too many cables.

If you're looking for an arranger that follows regular piano playing without freaking out the chord recognition, IMHO the Roland BK series excels at exactly that.

It has a mode (Pianist2) that waits for at least three notes before changing chords while the sustain is up (pretty standard mode on most arrangers) but adds the wrinkle of needing FIVE notes actually played while the sustain pedal is down. I can't tell you how much that radically improves how easy it is to play fairly pianistically without freaking out the chord recognition!

If you can live with a 76, the BK-9 might be the perfect gigging keyboard, the basic meat and potatoes comp sounds are killer, and its Hammond clone is arguably the best in any arranger too. 21 lbs for a really nice feeling 76 with drawbars is a plus, too!

Keep your eyes open for a used one...

But if you want full weight piano keys, you might want to look outside the arranger segment, TBH. There's some quite light WS's that can do some basic chord following and have some cool drum loops in there, but aren't really full arrangers. But if your main need for it is live band, you got to ask yourself how often you think you'll be turning on anything? Most of my experience playing with real players is, don't piss them off by showing how well you can replace them!

Sure, it's nice to have some drum loops in case you want to rehearse without a drummer, or even gig without a drummer if volume is a concern, but things start to get a bit tense as you add in extra parts that would traditionally be played by your guitarist or bassist or horn player..!

I make a point of having keyboard registrations set up for live band use that have no style or SMF parts switched on, so I can't 'accidentally' turn on the auto stuff! Wow them with your playing, not with the technology...

Jamman mentioned the Roland FP30x and Diki says that Roland does a great job with its "piano style" chord recognition. I would like to add that two recently discontinued Rolands-- FP-50 and FP-80 stand up pretty well to the Korg Havian as a piano-based arranger. They can play any Roland styles, in some respects better than Roland's arrangers do! Weight is about the same as your Havian. They don't have on-board style creation. Not sure about a sequencer, etc., but it sounds like you don't need either of these features for your intended purpose. Unfortunately, in the transition to the (current) successor model FP-90, Roland moved the arranger functions "out-board" to an iPad app :-( So if I had any piano chops, I would be looking for the FP-50 or FP-80.

I would check carefully that those FP Roland’s had the ‘Pianist2’ mode. Up until the BK series, Roland only ever had the ‘3 notes for a new chord’ system whether the sustain is down or up, and trust me, that system is FAR harder to play normally with.

I seriously hope all manufacturers add that Pianist2 mode to new arrangers, maybe even tweak it a bit to allow the player to adjust whether you want four, five or six notes. It makes a radical difference to whether you need to adjust your normal piano technique or not. Most of the time, I can play pianistically without having to think about the chord recognition at all…

The old system makes you adjust your playing a LOT.

Combine this with the BK-9’s Dynamic Arranger feature (sadly, not on the other BK’s) that adjusts the dynamics of the style to match your dynamics and it truly is quite spooky from time to time how well the backing follows your playing!

Diki and others, this is what it says in the FP-50 Owners Manual:
"When Split Play is off, chords are recognized as follows.
While the damper pedal is not pressed, the FP-50 recognizes a chord when 3 or more keys are struck.
While the damper pedal is pressed, the FP-50 recognizes a chord when 1–5 keys are struck."
So it sounds like these have the "improved" piano mode introduced on the BK's (which they are contemporary with.)

One of the things I really like about the Roland style pianos is that Bass Inversion can be configured as a MOMENTARY function. When you hold the pedal down, it's active and the bassline follows the lowest note played. When you release the pedal, the light goes out and the bassline follows the root for any played inversion. This makes it a LOT easier to play the odd slash chord in an otherwise vanilla score. On Roland's arrangers, it takes one push to turn Bass Inversion on, and another to turn it off. Hard to do accurately while playing two chords on successive beats!

That’s a strange description of the FP sustain down mode… the way it works in the BK’s is, you get no new chord until 5 notes are actually played simultaneously, no matter how many notes you play non-simultaneously while the sustain is held.

I don’t understand that ‘1-5 notes are struck’ bit. Is that verbatim from the manual?

The momentary Bass Inversion thing is cool, but I think it would be better as an option. There are times when I want the feature on all the time (in fact, full solo pianostyle mode you do want it on all the time, as your LH usually defines the bass inversion) and I’m not sure I’d want to have to hold a pedal down the whole time! One foot for sustain, the other for Bass Inversion on/off, you just tied your feet up…

I think it’s more a LH chord input feature than traditional two handed piano playing need, which makes it strange that the FP has it but the BK doesn’t. I also wish that Chord Hold worked as a momentary, which would allow even more pianistic possibilities. I think Korg and Yamaha have had this for quite a while.

There were times when I used to think Roland refused to adopt systems from other manufacturers out of sheer bloody mindedness! Decades of pleas for break/fills (common to all other brands, so not a patent issue obviously), multipads, samplers, chord holds, fill loops and other superior features went completely ignored, despite their obvious popularity with players.

That’s not to say that Roland didn’t have their advantages, but other manufacturers seemed all too willing to copy them while Roland plowed on in solitude. Probably contributed to their demise, in the end. You can’t force your users to like being stuck without basic features common to all OTHER brands.

Corporate hubris killed the arranger division at Roland.

Diki what I posted is in fact verbatim from the FP-50 manual. Here's what it says in the BK-9 manual (verbatim):
“Pianist2”: Same as “Pianist1” while the Hold pedal is not pressed. If you press the Hold pedal, the BK-9 even recognizes “chords” when you press only one note. If the hold pedal is still pressed, chord recognition continues up to a maximum of 5 played keys.
Sounds like exactly the same description to me.

It also says in the FP-50 manual:
"The Leading Bass feature is always on while Split is off."
So it is a LH chord input feature. I agree with you that Bass Inversion should have options for both momentary and toggle pedal operation. Thus both playing styles are accommodated.

Regarding what you are calling Chord Hold, check out this excerpt from the manual of the lowly Roland Prelude:
CHORD OFF: Chord detection in the Lower Part area of the keyboard will be off while you hold down the pedal, allowing you to perform using the entire keyboard. The setting will return to its previous state when you release the pedal.

CHORD TOGGLE: Chord detection in the Lower Part area will turn off when you press the pedal, allowing you to perform using the entire keyboard. The setting will return to its previous state when you press the pedal once again, so that chord detection will be on for the Lower Part area.
Basically the Prelude will do exactly what you're asking. Unfortunately, its momentary chord hold was lost in the subsequent evolution to the BK-series.

The Prelude was an odd duck. While adding this momentary chord hold, it "lost" the desirable Adaptive Chord Voicing which was added in the G70 version 2. [I wonder how the Prelude would transpose a G-70 style track containing an Alteration Mode message!?] It's like the Prelude was designed by a different team based on the pre-G-70 feature set! Thankfully, ACV reappeared in the BK's. But that still leaves Roland way behind the other arranger makers in terms of style control parameters.

If it matters, neither the FP-50 nor the FP-80 has a chord sequencer (chord looper.) However, the upscale model FP-80 does allow the player to jam over any of 180 pre-programmed chord progressions. That's a lot easier than connecting another arranger (or that old Roland CN-20 collecting dust in your closet!) I stand by my original claim that the better Roland FP's are excellent choices for a piano-based arranger.

That’s a completely wrong description in the manuals of both keyboards!

In fact, once the pedal is down, it will totally ignore anything you play until you simultaneously play five notes….

Which is EXACTLY what you want to happen! The whole point is to be able to play fairly freely without the chord changing. In normal piano technique, you would tend to lift the sustain just before a change in chords (you rarely want two to sound at the same time) and that is when it reverts to the ‘3 notes’ system, to rapidly pick up on the new chord.

If it only took one note to change a chord while the sustain was down, the chord recognition would totally freak on the slightest run…

I guess it’s one of those ‘lost in translation’ moments!

There are some VERY cool things you can do with this mode, for instance play an open fifth then sustain, the backing will hold that open fifth (no third) and while the sustain is down you can play all kinds of stuff with up to four notes while the backing holds that ostinato. You can play a root chord, pedal, then play around on the five chord to get a revoiced maj7/9 chord, you can play totally dissonantly or go off wherever you want only taking care to not simultaneously press five notes. That’s a heck of a sight easier to achieve without too much thought than having to stick to only two notes, which is all the window the old mode gave you.

Pianists, if you haven’t played an arranger with this mode on it, I really encourage you to try it out. It is a game changer!

Another thing I uncovered in a careful reading of the manual... the FP-50, FP-80, and even the BK's recognize the 7/13 jazz chord ROOTLESS! Remember the great Rootless chord debate? Well apparently Roland finally got on board. 7/13 is the only one shown in the appendix, it can be triggered by playing the dominant 7th, 3rd, and 13th. I don't play Jazz, so I don't even know which others to try. I don't recall this being a heavily advertised feature, but for Paul's purposes (and others who play piano in a jazz combo) it might come in handy.

Korg XE20 vs Yamaha DGX 670 comparison

https://youtu.be/s_yUg3J4coU