Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs

Posted by: montunoman

Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 09:54 AM

Hi,

I've been using two Bose Compacts for years, and still like them, but I gotten several events coming up that I don't think they will handle well. We got booked for few quinceanera (15th birthday party) and some wedding (young couples) Some of the events we'll be alternating with DJ, while others I"ll be playing recorded music during the breaks and special presentations (mostly very heavy bass material like hip hop)
I don't think my Bose Compacts will produce the sound that the young people are accustomed to.....

So, I'm thinking of using the Bose Compacts as monitors, and setting up behind pair of 12" powered speakers and and pair of 15" or 18" subs.

I already own a single Electro-Voice ZLX-12P 12", which sounds pretty good, so I thought I just get another one to complete the set.

Now, as for the subs, I'm not sure.... I've never used subs before. Not sure at all what to get or what size even. I know I'd like something under 70LBS. My budget is $2000.

Any suggestions? Thanks!
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 10:10 AM

I use a Behringer 1200 sub (40 lbs. ) with my two Eon Ones and it fills out the sound nicely. Maybe two of those with your Bose Compacts. Roll the bass off your compacts so they can push the mids and highs better and let the subs do the heavy lifting.
I just did a party in a bowling alley and it was all dance music. My system worked well in such a large enclosure.
Bring the EV along and lay it on the floor behind you for a monitor. .
Good luck.
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 10:35 AM

Paul call Frank at Audioworks ct he can advise you in the right way for sure on a PA.

http://audioworksct.com/
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 11:11 AM

One more thought I forgot to mention. You don't need to be able to blow out candles on a table in the back of the room. Just enough sound to cover the dance area and the rest of the room will be able to hear the music at a comfortable volume.
good luck
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 11:18 AM

Bose L1 PAS https://pro.bose.com/en_us/products/loudspeakers/portable/l1_model_ii.html

https://pro.bose.com/en_us/products/loudspeakers/portable/l1_model_ii.html

I've used this in the past and it will cover any venue up to 1,200 drunken boaters. This was the largest crowd I ever performed in front of, but I also used it for a concert in Aberdeen Municipal Park, which is about 3 acres and had folks dancing at the other end of the park from where I was set up.

Great thing about Bose, you can send it back, no questions asked, with 30 days, for a full refund.

Good luck,

Gary cool
Posted by: Torch

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 12:39 PM

Why don't you look into the Dave 12 G3 2.1 system with 12' subwoofer by LD Systems? $500 shipped. An amazing value. https://www.amazon.com/LD-Systems-DAVE-1...sr=8-6-fkmrnull

Musicians' Friend still sells it for $999 and fantastic reviews on this German website by users;
https://m.thomannmusic.com/ld_systems_dave_12_g3_reviews.htm

I have a number of speakers by LD Systems. They sound good.

I might add that the 2.1 system will be a "real" PA system in comparison with the Bose you had been using. I stay away from Bose all together for a number of reasons. One of them is I feel that with Bose I get much less for what I pay.

Posted by: Eric, B

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By montunoman
Hi,

I've been using two Bose Compacts for years, and still like them, but I gotten several events coming up that I don't think they will handle well. We got booked for few quinceanera (15th birthday party) and some wedding (young couples) Some of the events we'll be alternating with DJ, while others I"ll be playing recorded music during the breaks and special presentations (mostly very heavy bass material like hip hop)
I don't think my Bose Compacts will produce the sound that the young people are accustomed to.....

So, I'm thinking of using the Bose Compacts as monitors, and setting up behind pair of 12" powered speakers and and pair of 15" or 18" subs.

I already own a single Electro-Voice ZLX-12P 12", which sounds pretty good, so I thought I just get another one to complete the set.

Now, as for the subs, I'm not sure.... I've never used subs before. Not sure at all what to get or what size even. I know I'd like something under 70LBS. My budget is $2000.

Any suggestions? Thanks!


Another thought:
Since you have 2 Bose Compact look at this:
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/mau...pk87m6n6alvtnh3

Maui 28G2. You can get them for around $2000
They are compact but very powerful.
Donny used to have the Maui 28 G1.
The G2 are more compact, lighter and more powerful with improved sound.
They are as good or better than the Bose.
I liked the sound better side by side when compared to the L1 Mode2.
Frank sells them too. wink
Eric

P.S. Right know I don't need them, but I am planing on getting them (2) down the line wink
Posted by: mdorantes

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 01:56 PM

I echo what Eric mentioned, I used to have 4 Bose Compacts that I needed to use when I play at the Sundial Rec Center in Sun City, the Compacts could not handle it, they had some saturation, I purchased from Frankie 2 LD5s Maui almost 2 years ago, and never look back, they are much more powerful, quality is the same, cost is much lower than the Compacts, but, I know, for QuinceaƱeras, people like it louder than the American audience, so, if I was in your shoes, consider the G2s Maui that Eric mention.

My 2 Cents.

Manuel
Posted by: Torch

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 03:21 PM

I still have my Maui 28. It's overkill for me as I play small venues, but it has an excellent, rich, and warm sound probably because it uses class A/B amps while the newer version uses a class D amp. However, the new sub is 43 pounds, while mine is 63 LBS. Time to let go of my Maui 28.
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 04:24 PM

Thanks guys, so many options, I'm kinda going crazy!

Bill and Torch, the Beringer and the LD seems like a great lite weight choice and the price is right! Not sure if it would have the punch needed though?

I can't help but have doubts about the Bose that Gary recommends and Maui that Eric and Manuel recommend. Believe, I really don't want to schlep 18 inch subs but my competitors are all using as many as four 18' subs and multiple 15' tops.

As Manuel pointed out, Latinos (especially younger ones) love to feel that bass pumping. I think there must be a reason you never see any band or DJ using these small Bose and Maui systems at these Latino events.


Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 07:10 PM

Paul, nearly all the KJs and DJs in my part of the world long since switched to the Bose L1 Mod II with a pair of 10-inch subs. They'll blow the doors off most venues. Give it a try - they have a fantastic return policy if you're not happy with the product.

Gary cool
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 07:44 PM

[quote=montunoman]Thanks guys, so many options, I'm kinda going crazy!

Bill and Torch, the Beringer and the LD seems like a great lite weight choice and the price is right! Not sure if it would have the punch needed though?

I can't help but have doubts about the Bose that Gary recommends and Maui that Eric and Manuel recommend. Believe, I really don't want to shelp 18 inch subs but my competitors are all using as many as four 18' subs and multiple 15' tops.

As Manuel pointed out, Latinos (especially younger ones) love to feel that bass
pumping. I think there must be a reason you never see any band or DJ using these small Bose and Maui systems at these Latino events.

The reason I suggested the Behringers with your Compacts is its modular, light weight, affordable and in your budget. Get a large system and you always have a large system. Go modular and you are more versitale for different situations. One compact, two, add a sub, add two. Your set for anything and its affordabe.
Posted by: Ketron_AJ

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/08/19 08:00 PM

montunoman

When it comes to professional PA system, there is clarity (at high volumes) and there is power. Expensive systems are 'expensive' because they deliver on both ends very WELL.

There are a couple of reasons why when you go to a Latin/Caribbean/Funk/Gospel/Soul/Reggae ... etc or similar event, you won't find professional Sound crews using any Bose system either on or off stage - the fundamental being you get more quality and power per $ in other professional sound systems. Also, if a component of your PA breaks down (e.g 1 speaker or 1 sub), you can have that component fixed while carrying on with the rest of the gear. Due to multiple speakers, you also stand a better chance of filling the room with complete (not partial) mids and lows by placing the sound exactly where you want it. Finally, being able to control your tops and subs differently gives you the power to maintain clean bass or kick drum notes, without any programmed 'compressor' kicking in.

Write down your needs, then go through all systems and see which satisfies you the most.

Thanks,

AJ
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/09/19 02:55 PM

I think the confusion is coming from how loud you want to be. Multiple 18" subs and 15" tops is really overkill for an indoor event. I saw a Mexican band come into a restaurant here with some home made speakers the size of a compact car. It was so loud it was painful. I wasn't around past their sound check but I'll bet they had to turn it down. And forget bout moving all that.
To take one step up from what I first suggested then go with the Behringer 1500 subs $400 ea. and add another ev ZLX12 $400. Use you Bose for a monitor. IMHO that should be plenty loud enough, you'll still be able to move it all, and you'll have cash leftover.
Good Luck
Posted by: sparky589

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/09/19 08:09 PM

Or go with an EV sub like the zxa1- advertised as 700w vs behringer 500w. More $ but ev 12 subs I've had perform like larger ones without the weight. Add your 12" tops to that.
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/10/19 07:50 AM

Originally Posted By sparky589
Or go with an EV sub like the zxa1- advertised as 700w vs behringer 500w. More $ but ev 12 subs I've had perform like larger ones without the weight. Add your 12" tops to that.


EVs would definatley be a good choice if money is not the concern. That was my choice also but for the few times I need a sub and I happened to find a gret deal on the Behringer I went with that. Its ,preformed well
BTW Reverb has a pair of the EVs for $1000..
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/10/19 07:52 AM

LD MAUI Linup PA Systems
Posted by: Torch

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/10/19 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
montunoman
There are a couple of reasons why when you go to a Latin/Caribbean/Funk/Gospel/Soul/Reggae ... etc or similar event, you won't find professional Sound crews using any Bose system either on or off stage - the fundamental being you get more quality and power per $ in other professional sound systems. AJ
Your comments go well with many posts by audio experts I have read over the years.

Anyway, I like the idea other members suggested; using what you have and adding more to to them. That way, once can have a flexible system without spending too much money.

Chris
Posted by: Eric, B

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/10/19 08:17 PM

Quote:
Your comments go well with many posts by audio experts I have read over the years.

Anyway, I like the idea other members suggested; using what you have and adding more to to them. That way, once can have a flexible system without spending too much money.

Chris


I agree.
I have two Bose L1 compacts with EV sub.
This way I have 3 configurations:
1 Bose
2 Bose
2 Bose plus 1 sub.
Eric
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 02:58 PM

Thanks guys for your suggestions. I'm busy researching all of them and hopefully I will be able to try most of the suggested gear at some of the local stores around here this week. I'll let you know what I decide soon....
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
I think the confusion is coming from how loud you want to be. Multiple 18" subs and 15" tops is really overkill for an indoor event. I saw a Mexican band come into a restaurant here with some home made speakers the size of a compact car. It was so loud it was painful. I wasn't around past their sound check but I'll bet they had to turn it down. And forget bout moving all that.
To take one step up from what I first suggested then go with the Behringer 1500 subs $400 ea. and add another ev ZLX12 $400. Use you Bose for a monitor. IMHO that should be plenty loud enough, you'll still be able to move it all, and you'll have cash leftover.
Good Luck


Bill, you got a taste of what the Latino crowd has come to expect. It's crazy and getting out of control!!! I love my Bose Compacts but at least without a sub they don't have the low end nor volume that is being demanded.
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:24 PM

My wife and I went to a wedding reception recently for a Mexican couple in their 50's. During the dinner hour the DJ (who had three 18 inch subs and six 15 inch tops) was playing Latin EDM at a crazy high volume. I kindly suggested to the DJ that he turn it down and play something more appropriate for dinner. He said that's what the couple requested.... When the dancing stated, it got even louder. Everyone expect the older "gringos" seemed fine with it. Made me think of the old saying "if it's too loud, you're too old" Guess I'm too old for that!
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:40 PM

Paul ... I remember attending weddings in NY even 20 years ago where the bride and groom came into the room to hi-volume disco music and the volume never came down ...
I'm glad I was pretty much out of the 'wedding business' by then ...
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:49 PM

Paul, even when I was relatively young and played with a band, I never cranked up to ear bleed volume. My way at looking at this is that most of the bands that cranked up to those levels usually were trying to compensate for their lack of musicianship. Most of the time, I was right.

When the DJs cranked up to ear bleed volumes it's because they didn't get a response from the crowd and figured they needed to crank up the volume to get their attention, especially at wedding receptions. The vast majority couldn't read a crowd to save their arse. All the did was drive people away. Had they been able to read the crowd and played the right kind of music for the event, they would have done just fine at lower volumes.

The main reason I recommended that Bose L1 PAS or Mod II system is that you can independently control the sub level, and still maintain extremely high quality and clarity in the upper ranges. NO conventional sound system can do this - NONE, at least none that I have come across in the past half century. Usually, when those systems go to higher volume levels, they tend to distort, not just at the lower frequencies, but at all frequencies.

Finally, Bose offers pro musicians the highest quality service and the best return policy. I have worked with the vast majority of other PA system manufacturers and none came close to providing what Bose did.

Good luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary cool
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:50 PM

We're doomed.... when I get a wedding invitation I rip it up and throw them in the garbage...
I'm not going through that torture....
Posted by: DonM

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:53 PM

Maui is louder, deeper, clearer than Bose, with more inputs, e.q., and is about half the price. I only have the 5s, which are perfect for me, but the larger ones are fantastic.
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:57 PM

Funny thing is at this Mexican Restaurant I had just finished playing the Dinner time set and this band was setting up for the late night singles crowd. Now I am getting old but when I say their soundcheck was painfully loud I'm not kidding. So as I'm leaving I see all these single guys and girls all dressed up coming in and paying the $30 cover. And I thought "how can any of these guys meet a girl if you can't talk to her" ?
Sign language in Spanish ?? rotfl
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By Dnj
We're doomed.... when I get a wedding invitation I rip it up and throw them in the garbage...
I'm not going through that torture....


Yes indeed. It's a crazy world!
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Funny thing is at this Mexican Restaurant I had just finished playing the Dinner time set and this band was setting up for the late night singles crowd. Now I am getting old but when I say their soundcheck was painfully loud I'm not kidding. So as I'm leaving I see all these single guys and girls all dressed up coming in and paying the $30 cover. And I thought "how can any of these guys meet a girl if you can't talk to her" ?
Sign language in Spanish ?? rotfl


Didn't you know that people don't talk anymore? There's no need to when you can text, intragram, Facebook smile
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By DonM
Maui is louder, deeper, clearer than Bose, with more inputs, e.q., and is about half the price. I only have the 5s, which are perfect for me, but the larger ones are fantastic.


I'm sure I'd be very happy with a Maui, but have my doubts if it would work with the Latino audience. I haven't heard one yet, so I could be wrong!
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 04:07 PM

Gary, I have to disagree somewhat with your statements about why bands and DJs played (or play) so loud ... During the 80s most 'wedding bands' in the 'tri-state' NY/NJ/CT area were well schooled, full time, professional musicians - they had to be or they didn't work ... the problem was (is) that the young people go to these dance clubs with the ear-splitting music and want the same thing at their wedding ... and really don't care what the older folks want ... and truthfully, most of the 'older folks' are out on the dance floor with them ...
Posted by: DonM

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/11/19 04:25 PM

Yes you could well be better off with a conventional system, but if you get a chance to check them out, it would be good.
DNY had the Maui 11s and played some pretty large jobs with them.
Posted by: Eric, B

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 08:50 AM

Originally Posted By DonM
Yes you could well be better off with a conventional system, but if you get a chance to check them out, it would be good.
DNY had the Maui 11s and played some pretty large jobs with them.


I thought Donny had the 28s ....;)
Eric
Posted by: DonM

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 09:40 AM

Maybe he did...
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By Eric, B
Originally Posted By DonM
Yes you could well be better off with a conventional system, but if you get a chance to check them out, it would be good.
DNY had the Maui 11s and played some pretty large jobs with them.


I thought Donny had the 28s ....;)
Eric


maui 5's (50-150pp) & maui 28's (150-350+pp)......
both great Pa systems for different size crowds..
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 12:47 PM

I also previously used the Yamaha DXR & HK Nano 600 systems..
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 12:51 PM

FBT & Mackie Pa systems also at various times..
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/12/19 01:07 PM

many Pa systems have been used in the past, ....
but right now I am enjoying the
JBL Eon One system (2)....it really does it all.
So compact & sounds Amazing in Stereo as a sound system for my
Home Big screen TV too, etc.. cool2
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/13/19 04:18 PM

Hi guys,

Last night we (my wife and singer) spent a few hours at Sam Ash, and got to try most of the recommend gear. We both really want to go with some 12' EV subs, but after comparing the 12", 15", and 18" we went with a pair of ELX 18" (EV's mid level) and a 12" EV ZLX (EV's entry level) After buying the poles,covers and cables we went over our budget... It's nice they have 24 month of interest free financing!

Interesting thing- I really wanted to like the EV ELX200 18SP because of it's lite weight, but thought that the 12" EV sub actually sounded better. But the mid level ELX 18" sub sounded the best by far. The subs will be shipped to my house soon. Today I set up the 12" ZLX tops, and they sounded really good, and I like how they can be easily eq and have some real nice presents like "club mode" which makes them sound deeper.

I'm kind of thinking that two 18' maybe overkill? Maybe I'll be fine with one? It's hard to say before I actually try them on some jobs...

I'm sure there's all sorts of subs and tops from the higher end lines from JBL, Yamaha, QSC that are more powerful, but budget, weight, and working with the one EV ZLX top that I already had figured in the equation.

The plan is to keep using the Bose Compact for small jobs, and the EV system for bigger jobs along with the Bose for stage monitors.


Thanks for the input!
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/13/19 06:03 PM

Paul, best of luck ... I know you and your group will rock them ... rocker
Look forward to seeing/hearing some recordings ...
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/13/19 06:40 PM

Paul congrats I hope you also bought Sub Dollys too? Very much needed especially for the 18".
Posted by: montunoman

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/13/19 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By Dnj
Paul congrats I hope you also bought Sub Dollys too? Very much needed especially for the 18".


Thanks, Donny. I do have a Rock n Roller cart and also small flat type dolly that I think will work good. I am able to left the subs on to the cart with ease. If it was too heavy i wouldn't have bought them no matter how good it sounded.
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/14/19 07:21 AM

Originally Posted By montunoman
Originally Posted By Dnj
Paul congrats I hope you also bought Sub Dollys too? Very much needed especially for the 18".


Thanks, Donny. I do have a Rock n Roller cart and also small flat type dolly that I think will work good. I am able to left the subs on to the cart with ease. If it was too heavy I wouldn't have bought them no matter how good it sounded.


Attached sub wheels make it so much easier to move subs around on stage,
and they stay attached to the subs also,..or Pop out if needed too.Easy to install yourself..using a drill, and inexpensive.
I had the Ernie Ball (6102 low profile) casters on the Maui 28's..took me about 1 hr to install them on both subs.
https://www.samash.com/ernie-ball-6102-pop-out-guitar-amp-casters-set-of-4-e6102


Posted by: Dnj

Re: Looking for a Bigger PA System with Subs - 03/15/19 08:49 AM

https://www.ernieball.com/guitar-accessories/hardware/amp-accessories#P06102