Arranger keyboards

Hi. I am looking for some kind users advice on what would be the best arranger keyboard for my needs
I play in a small two-piece group now keyboards and guitar and use just the keyboard styles with a bit of tweaking
I have been using Ketron (SD1 and at present Audya) for a long time and I am thinking of changing my keyboard.
What would most people recommend. Korg PA4X, Yamaha Genos Ketron SD9. or anything else.?
I live in a fairly remote country area where there are no music shops with any selection of decent keyboards to compare side by side.
We play a variety of country,pop,60s and some irish/scottish traditional music.
I would appreciate any suggestions on users opinions on this.
thank you.

The first question is what you find lacking in the Audya. I have an Audya76 and SD40 and Sd2 modules, as well as Pa4X,Yamaha S970, and Hammond SK1 keyboards. The Audya tops them all in live sound. The Pa4x is my next favorite all around board due to easy navigation and easy editing, as well as great VH, reading midi lead notation and lyrics, and numerous other modern features.

In other words, if your decision is based on features not found on your Audya, and not sound quality, I would vote for Korg Pa4X. If it is sound and styles, I would keep my Audya.

Bernie

Thank you Bernie9. Up until recently, I was very happy with my Audya and I dont think I would sell it just yet
The concerns I have is that it would need some new key contacts and twice within this last month it has shut down and rebooted its self for no apparent reason so I am starting to get a bit nervous with it.
I think the Ketron keyboards have very good live sounds but I would like a keyboard with at least four outputs so that would rule out the Ketron SD9.

I think you would love the Korg PA4. As mentioned the OS is made for live play and the vocal processing is nothing short of brilliant.

Genos by far is the best one today ,then comes Ketron and the third is Pax4

I have both the pax4 and genos and the genos shines compare to the pax4 . I keep the Korg only because of the capebility to edit the sound to my taste , but i do not need it with the genos because the sounds are so good that i do not need to edit them.

opinion, by far

This, too, is an opinion.

It's actually a fact that you've made an opinion.

Dud, you're on your own!

Wow, you have some great choices there. Here’s my 2cents along with pros
and cons:

Yamaha has the best sounds, The most style choices, But if you want a live sound from the styles it may disappoint you.... If you like a very polished studio sound it’s a great choice. The vocal harmony though lags greatly behind Korg and Ketron.

Korg has great features like the chord sequencer, song book,and the best vocal harmonizes. It has a good selections of styles available but not as many as Yamaha. The sound of the styles is perhaps a little more lively and aggressive then Yamaha . I think of it as a nice “punchy” sound.

Ketron has beautiful very live sound in styles. Only problem is their style choices are very limited. If you know that they have the styles that you need, you should be fine.... The vocal harmonizer is quite good. But maybe it’s not as good as it TC helicon that Korg uses, but way better than Yamaha.

Well I don’t own all the top-of-the-line instruments, I do play all three brands, I still haven’t found the perfect keyboard for me, but I do know that great music can be made on any these keyboards your’re considering. You just need to decide what features are most important to you. Good luck!

yes it is my opinion based on my experience and my taste , and i used to have audya too .
but surprisingly this is not only my opinion you should read reveiws of proffesionals and non proffesional.

all i can say is that the most of the audience i play for tell me that i have never played and sound so good since i started using genos , and they heared me with audya and pax4 in the past.

What does the audience know? they are not experts and should not have an opinion..

Even tough, i mostly bought the Genos for its sound quallity (comming from pa4x) and enjoy it every day.... its better to stay away from opinions... Everyone will allways favor the sound of its current arranger.. and why wouldn't they, they all sound top knotch?

Bachus my friend my opinion based on a fact that i own both the pax4 and genos and i sold audya because the sounds and even the styles 'eccept bass and drums -were not good enough for me . so why do i have to prefer the sound of my current arranger that called genos if i have also pax4 .

the opinion of the audience is only the icing on the cake this joins my opinion and many profesional reviews

and i am not saying that objective i am right . a friend in this forum ask opinions ,and i wrote mine . as a matter of fact all the other musicians that criticized me made also their opinion by criticize me.

People say it's your opinion only when it contradicts theirs; that is, when they don't like yours.

Instead of spending time having to justify our opinions, we should simply, and freely, state them, for the benefit of others. I, for one, learn a lot from others' opinions. Even if they're different from mine.

One way to alleviate all that BS criticism is to simply post a song or demo with the instrument in question,
.....the music is always the defining factor....
just saying the loosely thrown out word "BEST" isn't good enough, why is the so called "BEST" ?
personally I have to HEAR it opinions have to be proven somehow so it leaves no doubt. Would you buy a arranger kb not ever hearing or seeing a demo on you tube etc?...
.....just post the song or demo and let the chips fall where they must,.....talk is cheap.

Its a matter of taste , isnt it ?

Impuls :-)

Yes, it is that. Both boards are excellent, with differences in the navigation and the like. People work in different manners and in different venues. Who's to say objectively; it comes down to an opinion that we hold on to.

The two best answers on this thread ... OF COURSE it's a matter of taste ... I've said many times "the beauty of a keyboard is in the EAR of the beholder ... that is why some people buy a Yamaha, some buy KORG, some buy Roland, Casio, whatever ...

Who is to DEFINITIVELY say that MacDonald's is better (OR WORSE) than Burger King or vice versa? ...it's a matter of taste and choice ... even a side by side A/B test proves nothing as everyone hears something different ... and audiences often react to the difference in a performance, not necessarily whether the sound is better or worse ... and it's STILL a matter of individual OPINION, not FACT ...

Tony but you have to taste them to find out....just sayin'..

Absolutely, but even after 'tasting', the 'FACT' that one is better than another is still based on personal preference ...

Tony ....BUT,.....its what I personally think after tasting that counts not somebody else opinion.

Donny, my point exactly ! ...

People want to hear the player NOT the keyboard, if they wanted that they could just go to the manufactures website.

Let’s face it; a good player can make even a $50 Casio sound great, so try not to use technology like a crutch and put even more effort than you do now to make your performance even better.

If you’re a home player than technology can be great as it allows you to sound great without the wait, but even home players soon get bored with the tech and either learn to play, or just don’t bother anymore.

Bill

Yes, & that is why I'm really tring hard to learn all I can about how to best use my 3000 and BIAB that I have!

While i don't get bored with the tech..
There is a reason i started with piano lessons again..
the better you play, the more helpfull the technollogy becomes..
But also the less necessary it is..

Bachus, your post says it all, especially the piano lessons.

We spend large amounts on keyboards to improve our performance when piano lessons or understanding music will make a bigger difference. In no way am I putting down technology, and more buttons, I love um.

John C.

common , Bachus even profesional keys playeres search for the best gear in order to sound better. it is very rare to see a famous one playing on cheap casio , and even if it happense it is to get a cheezy sound that feets the song they play.

I agree you should get piano lessons if you are a piano player, or even use your arranger in piano mode. I've never really played piano, so to me music theory or arranger lessons would be more important if I were just beginning.

+1(well actually + several) for Genos


Of those that actually OWN AND USE a Genos, I've heard few complaints.

I took piano lessons for awhile, about twenty years ago, but, as an adult playing the chord method for so long, I didn't have enough time in my life to be halfway competent. I had already been taught basic theory, and remembered enough left hand bass clef to play simple songs, but that was it. Many of us have heard many times that it is easier to switch to keyboard from piano than vice versa. How true.

Excuse me for hijacking the thread, but on the subject of music theory for those that are interested, a guy named Rick Beato has a youtube channel that may be helpful. Some of the stuff is basic but he has a little something for everyone I believe. He is a former producer and plays both guitar and keys.

I am really very thankful to every member who took the time to reply to my request. I am still undecided as to what keyboard to go for but I am leaning towards the Korg
I had a Tyros 4 for some time ago and I didn't keep it very long as I didn't think it suited my type of music as well as the Ketron.
I also have a Korg Microarranger and I am wondering what the PA4X instrument sounds are like in comparison to it.

Everything about the 4X is better than the Microarranger, except for the fact that you can carry the KMA in a holster on your belt if you wish.
Better sound engine, better styles, better operating system, better keys...
4X has the best vocal processor/harmonizer there is, short of really expensive third party ones.
Version two OS gave us a huge update, and now Version three is just days away, and can only make it better still.
In my opinion it is the best arranger available for MY needs.

But don sadly as stated by so many here (not myself)
GENOS is the "BEST"

Donny, you sure like stirring the pot. ha ha

And some of us say that Genos is the best sounding Yamaha arranger 'till date.
Btw,
MicroArranger is a funny little thing that do impress a lot for the money, just look into the 240 pages detailed manual.
That book probably cost more to produce than the MA.

Thank you Jonny. I don't mean to say I am going to make the Microarranger my main instrument, I wanted just to know if there was a big difference in instrument voices between it and the PA4X.
I have an old long redundant Korg PA80 lying about here somewhere and I remember comparing the voices to the Micro arranger and there were almost identical so I was just curious about the PA4x

Sure it is 😜
Espescially when combined with a modx..

If I'm not totally wrong, the MA has pretty much the same specs as PA50.
Honest, it sounds fairly good, nice styles, but naturally, it's a big step up to the 'big brothers'.
I bought it for fun, and to bring along when we drive around with the motorhome because of the nice size and light weight.
The miniKeys is far better to adapt and play than expected, even if they felt like toy at the first touch.

What is "best" is totally subjective. The Korg is "best" for me. Operating features, live sounding styles, vocal processor/harmonizer.
If you prefer Genos, that's wonderful, but you really can't tell everyone it is "best". Well I guess you can, but that doesn't make it valid.
I can see where Ketron is "best" for many. The Genos would be my third choice at this point, even if all were priced sensibly.

with only 4 TOTL "arranger" kb contenders makes it very limited in choices these day,....all 4 are capable,....but there are also other avenues to create music if you open your mind. But as Don said if you a Singer/player the KORG Pa4x and soon to be Pa5x is hard to beat for live performance in so many ways.

Yup ... that IS sad to see repeated so often ... with great bias.

Thank you Dnj for that. I didn't know there was going to be a PA5x coming out. Any ideas when this will be released.
If it would be sometime in the near future ti might be worth holding off till then.
Incidentally, (wishful thinking) has Anyone heard news of a new version of the Ketron Audya as AJ said that the SD9 was not a replacement for the Audya in an interview

There is a major upgrade to the PA4X due anytime, not a new board.

lets not forget the new GENOS 2 also while we are at it....just sayin'

There's a Genos 2???

To add to the confusion..

Casio is coming out(and has come out with)portable arrangers in 88 key(simulated) hammered action...that is if you prefer hammered action and 88 keys.


The Casio Privia S3000 is interesting to me...simulated hammered action.


https://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/privia-series/px-s3000


Just like Yamaha, Casio is weak on both styles and voices in their 88 key, hammered action arrangers. This doesn't surprise me as folks(near as I can tell) interested in 88 key hammered action don't seem to be too interested in arrangers.


This new 88 key arranger, PX S3000 is supposed to have better voices and styles.

There have been ZERO announcements for a Genos or a PA5X. Korg is due soon, but that doesn't mean as much because of the free upgrade. Genos is not due for at least a year or two.
Anything else is guessing.

Over the years I have owned, Psr2100, Tyros 3, S970, S975, Korg Pa800, Pa900, Pa4x. I had the S975 and the Pa4x side by-side, my opinion:

My S975 is not a Genos, but it is a Yamaha, is like a brand-new high-end stereo player. Dancer LIKE the sound.

The Pa4x digs in, not just with great sounds, but with a drive dancer will LOVE, they are not able to resist.

Now who are you? And how will you be using keyboard? – that must come from you, we all hear differently.

If I am not able to get my Kn7000 repaired, there will be a Korg Pa4x in my home very soon.
John C.

John-so you still have the 975?

John,
After four years I'm still finding exciting things about the PA4X. All the modern arrangers are great.
I've had arrangers since they were invented in the 80s and before that organs. I've had at least 14 Yamahas, 5 Korgs, 4 Technics, 7 Rolands, 6 Ketrons and a couple of Casios and loved 'em all! Kinda like women.

A word about Piano studies and music theory.

1-Go to the piano or keyboard and play a two-octave scale with your right hand in the keys of C, F, G, Bb and Eb three times each day – Maybe 10 to 15 minutes. Do this for 5 weeks and there will be a difference.

2-Don’t learn all there is about music theory, just add these simple substitutions.

Whenever you see a G7 going to a C Major add/Sub
G7 --- Sub Dm7 G7 C ----- V7 --- Sub IIm7 V7 to I
G7 --- Sub Db7 to C ------ IIb7 to C
G7 ---Sub G7 Db7 to C ------- V7 IIb7 to C

This does not fit with all kinds of music. How and when you use them is just another expression you may add to a song. Learn these Subs in different keys.

I can’t help myself, I love to teach, John C.

Sparkey -- Mr. The older I get, the better I was, Yes I do. Why are u asking?

I love that saying.
John C.

I love the way you express yourself --loved 'em all! Kinda like women.

Nice, John C.

Coming to a decision on something new in coming months.

for my taste MELODIKA is the best

oh and also my PANTHER ELKA ORGAN that i had in the 60s

what is your setup now?

Yamaha Tyros2, Petosa AM1100 midi accordion, Diamond Italia midi accordion, Ketron SD4 module, Wersi Pegasus 2+ module, Maui 11's, Soundcraft EFX 8 mixer, Sennheiser945.

T2 still sounds great to me overall, but heavy and o/s a bit cumbersome. Improvements made now, and loading up custom sounds and registrations and transferring to a 975 would save tons of time. Yet I prefer Ketron, Korg, and Wersi strings and Ketron saxes. Have had every Solton and Ketron module thru sd series except for latest sd40/90. Owned Korg pa500 musikant and pa600 previously. Liked o/s but thin sounds.

So a 975 would lighten my load and familiarity with Yamaha along with file transfer would allow me to get going right away.

Or Korg pa1000 w ketron module for improved sounds.

Or sd7 for all in one answer..

Or...

You could row a boat with all those ors.
MEL

Ah Dud, 'I Have A Dream' a midi melodica with a wireless connection ...

Or a 61 key controller w Ketron Sd3/40/90..

All the options cause more indecision rather than decision.
But simplest move to load and go is a 975 for now..

Didn't mean to hijack, just answering Donny's question, albeit in excess detail..

Sparky I think you have answered your own question you know what to do good luck.