Who is using Band in a Box or vArranger & Why?

I was looking at both these products & kept saying to myself why would I need this when I have an Arranger KB to play music?
I would like to hear pros & Cons from players who use either or both of these programs....maybe I'm missing something what are the benefits?

Thoughts?

Thank you

You can’t compare band in a box with an arranger, as there is no realtime playing... band in a box is a perfect tool for creating backingtracks... but they all have a static chordprogression like a midifile or an audiofile...

V-arranger is a realtime arranger like any other hardware arranger, except that its using software on a pc instead of build in software in an arranger keyboard.

V-arranger is the only arranger that plays styles from all 4 major arranger brands. All except Ketron audio styles.

I’ve been using BIAB live for several years, now, with guitar and vocals. Often, I have a woodwind player and other vocalists join in, as well. I also use arrangers on other gigs. The BIAB program is much less expensive than an arranger, even though you must purchase a computer (laptop in my case). It offers so many styles, it’s hard to keep up with them. If a person knows chord changes, you can create a full arrangement in a matter of minutes. I like being able to change keys and the number of choruses on the spot to accommodate other musicians. The real styles (real audio files) sound authentic through a good sound system. With a little effort, you can create hundreds of songs ready to go at the push of a button. I’ve got my folders of tunes organized by country, jazz, pop, rock, standards, Broadway/show, holiday songs, waltzes, tangos------you name it. I’m not giving up arrangers; however, BIAB is a great tool for song writing, practice, and live performance.

i think if someone goes for a full software setup, having different tools like BiAB, Varranger, Reason, VST's, Logic, mainstage and Bitwig all readily available in your macbook really makes sense..

However, for everything that requires realtime interaction, like using an arranger or selecting real time scenes in bitwig, a dedicated user interface is required.

But using BiAB, as a backing-sequencer should work straight forward, just press play and go...


Another thing that comes to mind, is the huge difference between BiaB for PC and BiAB for MAc. I guess for BiAB its better to have a PC then a MAC...*same goes for Varranger, the reason i don't owwn Varranger is the fact that it only runs on PC and not on MAC.

I don't own anything Mac or Apple yet...a PC man I remain for now,...that said why do arranger kb players frown upon using SMF files, Mp3 tracks etc, but accept using the "automatic chord input method" BIAB to play on top of? at least with smf/mp3 you actually play & create tracks to use vs just typing in chords? at least with vArranger you have to play,what am I missing here?

Donny, with all due respect, I think what you're missing is that you expect (demand?) that everyone justify everything they do. Sometimes people just do things because they want to, no reason or justification needed. As Bachus said (or implied), just because you use one thing doesn't mean you have to exclude everything else. What's wrong with having a variety of tools in the toolbox? Different tools for different jobs (or different tools for a different approach to the same job). Some people just like to experiment; like having a car collection; you don't collect them because one is
better than the other; you collect them because variety is FUN (I could have used a wife/girlfriend analogy here but chose not to ).

I have an old (2015, I think) copy of BIAB and find lots of fun uses for it, such as inserting it inside REAPER or generating lead sheets or extracting chords from a midi file, etc., etc. I think it's a really clever program that (frankly) with the exception of 'live playing', is nearly as flexible and useful as an arranger (and a hellava lot cheaper). JMO.

chas

Chas true but, getting different opinions and reasoning's WHY people do what they do helps me decide & become an educated consumer & user if I choose, I'll always ask questions life is too short to
dilly dally....if you Don't ask, you Don't receive & can't absorb,....
that said Happy New Year to you and yours!

Donny: I purchased BIAB 2017 thinking I’d really dig into it this time. I previously bought 2008 and 2013.

It’s still sitting as an icon on my laptop untouched. I’ve tried to get into it on a number of occasions, but the program has become quite daunting through its annual upgrades.

I know it’s capable of doing some pretty incredible things, but unless your willing to put in the time to master it...I’d think twice.

Happy New Year...jingleman

I suppose you could use it at home to practice with, freeing you up to use both hands for playing without having to trigger arranger accompaniments yourself. You could use it for multi-track recording of course. I used to use it for making nursing home backing tracks (along with Cubase and EZDrummer) when I was playing guitar. But you are right, for live playing an arranger is probably better and BIAB is unnecessary.

You could also use the chord sequencer, and have the same idea as biab, which is essentially an arranger that you can only use with a set chordsequence....

Arrangers are just a lot more versatile... (audioplayer, midi sequencer). .. but biab excells in what it does quallity wise... it allows you to create high end backingfiles... i dont think any real live played arrangers come really close to the nuances of a biab backing..

But then, what do you want on stage? The best performance or being flexible? I have no clue what everyone else prefers,...

You are spot on here.... There is a huge difference..... It almost makes sense to purchase an economy Windows Laptop and dedicate it to BIAB......

Thanx Jingleman...these are the things I want to hear about, it really helps...

and no matter how you cut it your always a slave to the track with BIAB,SMF Mp3 tracks etc,....nothing gives you the spontaneous freedom of playing live "BY YOURSELF" then with an arranger KB.
Thanx for the feedback everyone..

Respectfully disagree. I would describe 'playing with an arranger KB' as LIMITED freedom. I think the more accurate statement would be "nothing gives you the spontaneous freedom of live playing'.....like PLAYING LIVE. No restrictions.

chas

reread my edits ..

I've experimented with software arrangers (real and non-real time) and concluded for myself that it requires too much settings and preparations to be useful in live situations. I also preferred simple, minimum setups in gigs, less cables, built-in vocal processing/harmonizer, etc which the software arranger hardly provides. Currently I owned the latest vArranger (Dan, the developer doing a great job in perfecting this S.A.) in my opinion, the one of the most versatile software arranger available yet I still preferred the hardware arranger especially for spontaneous arrangements, recordings and simply playing for fun. Maybe I need to take another look on software arrangers and spend some more time working on it. Just my 2 cents.

Donny,
I have no experience with BIAB or software synths but I do own and have gigged with vArranger. I use it with a Ketron SD2 module. Later versions of vArranger include built-in sounds and make the SD2 module unnecessary. One drawback to vArranger is the need for a very high end PC Laptop. A big plus for vArranger is it does indeed play styles from Ketron, Yamaha, Roland, and Korg. Another plus is the high level support provided by Dan the creator of vArranger. I use vArranger with a Roland A-800 Pro midi keyboard and have it programmed so that I never have to even touch the computer once the program is running - pretty neat.

FYI, by the time you get setup with vArranger. a proper PC laptop, and a midi controller you will have $1000.00 plus or more pending the price of your laptop.

I don't use vArranger much now because I am deep into my Ketron keyboards.

Deane

Great advice Deane thank you, ..glad to hear your back with ketron SD7 after the holidays,...I know you found a perfect fit for Your needs with it, ...Happy New Year to you & Yours!

I agree to both though different meanings can be assigned to the phrase "the huge difference between BIAB for PC or Mac." The PC version seems to be ahead in terms of features and operation just because BIAB started as a DOS program. Though Mac is a more music friendly OS than Windows, a low priced PC laptop will have no problem running BIAB. I have a 15.6 touchscreen hybrid Windows tablet 16GB RAM and a 2 TB SSD. It cost me just a little over $1,000. Try to do the same with Mac and it will cost a fortune. I don't even know Apple has a notebook with touchscreen yet. With a Mac, it will be over $4,000.

Bachus's past posts almost "persuaded" me to get a Mac when my daughter gave me her Mackbook Pro. The first thing that I did was buy Mainstage for $30. Mainstage wasn't as flexible as I thought it would be. I put it away. I didn't want to deal with two different OSes. I use a VST host called Gig Performer and I noticed that a lot of Mainstage users prefer GP to MS. There is no question that Mac has a superior OS for DAW/MIDI, but Windows isn't bad at all.

Hi Donny,
I have both, and as others have said , you can’t really compare the 2 programs.
Biab is for creating backing tracks or songs by typing in chord progressions, or even getting it to create it’s own progressions ( I think) , haven’t used it in quite a while, though I did upgrade yesterday.
I used to have it midied to my pa800, ie type in chords biab, the pa800 would then follow the chord progression, I found it a good way of auditioning styles for a song. Used to get some interesting results mixing biab and korg tracks together ie replace a korg guitar track with a biab guitar real track. I like experimenting.

V arranger is a real-time software arranger .
It also has a mode where you can type in chord progressions and create a backing track.
I didn’t actually buy it for its real-time functions , I wanted access to the
ketron and Roland styles it can play and be able to create the midifiles I needed for my style conversions hobby ,for my Korg.

Most interesting topic! I have been a uiser of BIAB for 20 years. And using arrangers just as long. I believe in using every tool available to make my music as good as possible. I laugh everytime I see someone advertise they use no karaoke. They use the auto-play features of their keyboards! This argument started years ago when we started using rhythm units with our organs. Pushing wood to eliminate the bass player.

BIAB has the ability with their real tracks to produce real sounding insturmantal backups. Yamaha i touting their real drums that BIAB has had for 10 years or longer. The difference in quality of real tracks versus midi tracks is huge! The learning curve to get trully professional results is high but combination of BIAB and a good arranger keyboard really can't be beat.

I've never tried vArranger so can't speak to it. I would sy that at this very moment there are over 300 users on the pgmusic's website forum. People from the company write to the forum. It is not unusual to read a answer to a customers post from Peter Gannon the main writer of the program as well as several of the other programers at pgmusic. They have always offered a money back guarantee so you can't go wrong if you buy it and don't like it send it back no questions asked.

It took me 10 years to explain things to a friend of mine who had once said, "Oh, no I won't use any karaoke" and yet he always wanted and tried to sound just like the original track with his arranger.

I have BIAB 2017 Everything. No more upgrades for the next 3 to 5 years as I only use the basic functions of it. I've used it for over 25 years, I think, since its beginning. I also use vArranger, not so much as an arranger, but as a patch manager; calling different sounds on multiple midi channels and play them either from a digital piano or a MIDI accordion.

Rikki first of all Happy New Year and thank you for the explanation I understand more then I did before now ...good luck with your music.

HiDonny,
Happy new year to you too. Sorry bit late getting back, just sent off last of my Xmas guests, had 6 staying over Xmas, worn out haha.

Quite frankly if you do use audio backing tracks , biab could be worth looking at more so than VArranger, mainly because you already have an arranger keyboard anyway.

Arranger styles were better suited to the type of songs I liked, big band , Latin , show tunes.
Biab has great country, rock , pop , jazz etc, did notice it has big band now too.

I’ve had biab since day one, never really used it to it’s full extent, I enjoyed playing around with my keyboards too much. Actually if all I wanted to do was create backing tracks to sing along to, or as backing for playing another instrument, I’d be more inclined to buy biab over an arranger keyboard, provided the styles suited.

Hi Rikki,.....so are people just buying song charts, etc, pic a BIAB Style and copying the chords from them to BIAB to create the backing track?

I have sent an email in the pgmusic contact page, but I did not receive any answer.

Does anyone has the private email of the BIAB creator?

Some users ask me to add the possibility to import the song chords from BIAB files, and I asked it to pgmusic.....

Here is an example how I have used BIAB..

You can take an audio file into BIAB, it can scan and show the chords within the song...
Now you can select a style you want for your arrangement.... You can use real instrument samples..
If you want Jimmy Smith to take a ride on the third verse ..no problem select it... and He can comp on the other verses.. and maybe Wes Montgomery can take a ride on the bridge....

Now you can save this in a format of your choice..

You can also print this as a lead sheet...

You can do a lot with BIAB.... most folks think it is to complicated and never try it...


My example above takes no musical skill and PC skill..

Hi Donny, can be as simple as that, and basically what I have done in the past. I have a fake sheet, type in the chord progression, it has copy and paste function, so usually doesn’t take all that long, pick a style and generate the song. (You put the little markers in for verse and chorus). Don’t like the style, pick a different, generate, see if that sounds better.
The audio styles sound really good.

You really need to have a peek thru the videos just to see what it is capable of, quite mind boggling. From the 3 instrument midi styles back in the early 90’s now to very elaborate audio styles. The forum members are really helpful.

There’s another program included called Real Band. Sequencer basically, it also uses the biab styles. You have more control over the individual style tracks. Ie you can again type in a chord progression , choose style, generate, then record additional tracks over the top to create a complete song.

It loads midi files and reads the chords if the file has them , if not it will come up with it’s own. Something I tried, was replacing a midile track with one of biab’s audio tracks ie replace the midi drum track with an audio drum track from biab. Even tried it with just say an audio strumming guitar track.
Program that doesn’t seem to be mentioned much , but, it’s a good one and part of the package. Still haven’t had a chance to try my new 2018 version.