Genos vs pa4x

Posted by: rolandfan

Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 07:26 AM

Now that demos are flying out left right and centre on the genos, how do they compare in your opinion to the demos that came out when the pa4x was launched. Is the genos finally able to deliver that live band feel of the korg?
Posted by: Bernie9

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 07:34 AM

Certainly closer than previous models, but I don't think their styles will be better. Maybe, we'll see.
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By Bernie9
Certainly closer than previous models, but I don't think their styles will be better. Maybe, we'll see.


I agree....honestly to me it sounds like a tyros 5 with some arps?
Posted by: Bachus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By Bernie9
Certainly closer than previous models, but I don't think their styles will be better. Maybe, we'll see.


Actually on the tyros 5 you could get really close to that live feel of Korg, by edditing the styles, switching some tracks off, a little eq on the drums, and adding some volume to the bass and guitars... its all in the arrangement..

Seems Genos has improved drums and drum edditing..


But where the Genos will allways stay beyound the korg is
A) edditing, sounds...and midi.. and espescially where it comes to sound creation
B) real time controlls.. pa4x already has assignable sliders. And i am using the knobs of kronos to.. but thas not what i mean, i mean live controlling the styles... with buttons.. why do i have no fill buttons on Genos, manuall bass button..etc etc..

We will have to see how much the live coontrol and asignable buttons can make up for the missing comtrolls..


Wher Genos shines is dsp power.. which seems to be a blessing
Posted by: Bachus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Bernie9
Certainly closer than previous models, but I don't think their styles will be better. Maybe, we'll see.


I agree....honestly to me it sounds like a tyros 5 with some arps?


Only 216 arps amd no way to load user created arps...
and only a single arp at a time..

Not really usefull ... compared to montage that has 8 arps in real time... and almost 10.000 arps stored...


The Genos is far off from the all in one instrument you would want for €4500 ... where the Montage comes at under €3000...

Fun thing, the hardware of the Montage is more expensive then the buildcost of the Genos...
Posted by: Stephenm52

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 10:47 AM

How about key length are the any longer than they were on Tyros5?
Posted by: jingleman

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 11:19 AM


Harvard Business School 101. The cost of manufacturing has absolutely no bearing on product pricing!
Posted by: Bachus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By jingleman

Harvard Business School 101. The cost of manufacturing has absolutely no bearing on product pricing!


I can see where that one comes from...
Altough i think there is some influence...


The most important for the price is what people are prepared to pay for a product


So if nobody would buy the Genos, prices would drop
Or the product would dissapear
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 01:12 PM

I can clearly remember little old ladies paying $60,000 for an organ, and that was 30 years ago. smile

Gary cool
Posted by: Bachus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/02/17 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By Stephenm52
How about key length are the any longer than they were on Tyros5?


No exactly the same keybed (FSR)
Posted by: spalding1968

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 12:31 AM

Well I have reviewed a number of the new Yamaha Genos YouTube clips. Martin Harris is a beast, let me say that from the get go! And some have already said he can make any instrument sound awesome. He’s just that good.

In terms of the sounds of the Genos, I don’t think you could put a piece of paper between how it sounds compare to the Tyros 5. To me they sound identical in terms of sound quality. And that’s a compliment, because Yamaha sounds have always been Stella and I think they will struggle to provide any other instrument going forward that will greatly surpass what they have already achieved In terms of real world sounds.

What is a huge step forward is the touchscreen and this feature alone will make the Genoe more desirable than any of its predecessors. I like what I have seen and heard especially the real-time control improvements that Yamaha have now added including the joystick and knobs to tweak the sounds in real time. All in all Genos is a Tyros with a touchscreen , some arps and a better user interface.

Some would argue, that will be sufficient for them to drop another pile of money (equivalent to the cost of a small family car) for this upgrade . And God bless them as this keeps the economy going and keeps bringing innovation to keyboards which everyone will benefit from eventually. Where I think Yamaha dropped the ball is that they have castrated the workstation element in the digital workstation/arrange keyboards by limiting the editability of the instrument unless it is hooked up to a computer for recording, sequencing and production. I guess that is because they will assume that anyone using the genos for song writing and composing will have it hooked up to a computer. But for me, I like to create and compose and arrange on the instrument that I am playing.

From reading the specs, it does not look like the genos sequencer is any more detailed than its predecessors. And that unfortunately for me is a definite deal breaker. Other than that, I love what Yamaha have done and it has brought the arranger keyboard (in terms of their offering ) into the 21st-century. I think in terms of sounds, both the tyros range and Genos sounded marginally better than the Korg PA 4x, but in terms of editability and an “all in one box solution“ true workstation , Yamaha are still trailing . However I think that probably was a deliberate decision.
Posted by: abacus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 02:45 AM

Originally Posted By spalding1968
Well I have reviewed a number of the new Yamaha Genos YouTube clips. Martin Harris is a beast, let me say that from the get go! And some have already said he can make any instrument sound awesome. He’s just that good.

In terms of the sounds of the Genos, I don’t think you could put a piece of paper between how it sounds compare to the Tyros 5. To me they sound identical in terms of sound quality. And that’s a compliment, because Yamaha sounds have always been Stella and I think they will struggle to provide any other instrument going forward that will greatly surpass what they have already achieved In terms of real world sounds.

What is a huge step forward is the touchscreen and this feature alone will make the Genoe more desirable than any of its predecessors. I like what I have seen and heard especially the real-time control improvements that Yamaha have now added including the joystick and knobs to tweak the sounds in real time. All in all Genos is a Tyros with a touchscreen , some arps and a better user interface.

Some would argue, that will be sufficient for them to drop another pile of money (equivalent to the cost of a small family car) for this upgrade . And God bless them as this keeps the economy going and keeps bringing innovation to keyboards which everyone will benefit from eventually. Where I think Yamaha dropped the ball is that they have castrated the workstation element in the digital workstation/arrange keyboards by limiting the editability of the instrument unless it is hooked up to a computer for recording, sequencing and production. I guess that is because they will assume that anyone using the genos for song writing and composing will have it hooked up to a computer. But for me, I like to create and compose and arrange on the instrument that I am playing.

From reading the specs, it does not look like the genos sequencer is any more detailed than its predecessors. And that unfortunately for me is a definite deal breaker. Other than that, I love what Yamaha have done and it has brought the arranger keyboard (in terms of their offering ) into the 21st-century. I think in terms of sounds, both the tyros range and Genos sounded marginally better than the Korg PA 4x, but in terms of editability and an “all in one box solution“ true workstation , Yamaha are still trailing . However I think that probably was a deliberate decision.


Interesting how people perceive sound differently, as apart from some of the new features included on the T5 (Ensemble etc.) I found the T5 to be way inferior to the T4 on which it was based, (Note this was live trial comparisons, not professional video demos which sound nothing like the instrument in the real world) whereas so far (But I will reserve final judgment until I have tried it) the sounds in the videos of the Genos have taken a giant leap forward, (The round robin feature is a very welcome addition) which now puts Yamaha on a level with the Korg PA4x.

It’s also interesting about the joystick, as I find this a retrograde step, (I have never been able to get on with the joystick approach) with an assignable pitch & modulation wheel being much better.

I do think Yamaha will sell shed loads of the Genos though (The T5 sales were poor compared to previous models, with the 76 note model being its saving grace) as it really is a step up for Yamaha. (The way the PA4x kicked the T5s backside (Butt) in both sales and quality (I have never known so many users jump from the Yamaha ship) they had to do something)

Bill
Posted by: kbrkr

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 04:48 AM

I think the Genos is a mix of new stuff and more of the same from Yamaha. It is still not a "players" keyboard like the Ketron and the Korg. They are missing some key physical controls on the surface. It looks like they removed some controls and put them on the touch screen.

The case also looks like a HOME keyboard design (curved? furniture?) rather than a road warrior design to be gigged with. I noticed the case is a flat black and the one in the Martin Harris videos is already scuffed and scratched on the paint surface.

I will say those Yamaha sounds are amazing. Certainly the guitars are quite stellar and that Pedal Steel guitar has always been one of my favorites. I wasn't very impressed with the organs. You need a good C1-C3 Chorus to get that authentic Hammond Sound and I didn't recall hearing any nor was their any in the T5 that was selectable. The strings, brass, and synth sounds have always been remarkable and with the ensemble function really shine; I wish I had those. I am really critical of drums and I still hear those crappy T5 snare drums. I hope they have added/changed some of those snares to be more contemporary; not just filter them but change the underlying wave samples. The wave stepping is great in theory but I didn't really hear it in action on the limited demos I heard. I'd need to dive into this a bit more.

I also like the Yammy freestyles. In general, the styles are also busier in the 3-4 variations than the Korg styles; sometimes that is very good and sometimes not so good. I'm glad I didn't hear any damn woodblock or tambourine's in the styles. Those drive me crazy. For my taste, I would like to see all styles only have volume levels up for the Bass, Drums, and maybe one guitar or piano accompaniment. They can program the other channels, but leave the volume off so if I want to make the sound fuller, all I have to do is move the volume sliders up instead of the other way around where I have to turn down the busy accompaniment on each style at the start. This is basic song dynamics. The overall sound is still more wet and brighter than the RAW sound of the Korg's.

I do have concerns regarding the implementation of the setlist function and the MP3 Player section. How well are they integrated with they keyboard functions and controls?
Can you import / export setlists? Does it store transpose, vocal harmony settings, mp3/song/style types? Is it as good as the Pa4x implementation which in my opinion is the best on the market. Was it an afterthought or a class leading change?

I also agree Martin Harris is an amazing player. He is so fast; watch as he touches the controls between fast notes/chords! Very smooth and polished.

It looks like a winner for the home players; it remains to be seen if it's worthy of gigging with. It's amazing how far Yamaha have come; from only offering a 61 key version to only a 76 key version. I'm so happy we have Korg around to really drive change and challenge the other manufacturers to innovate!!!
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 06:45 AM

Originally Posted By kbrkr
It looks like a winner for the home players; it remains to be seen if it's worthy of gigging with. It's amazing how far Yamaha have come; from only offering a 61 key version to only a 76 key version. I'm so happy we have Korg around to really drive change and challenge the other manufacturers to innovate!!!


Its not about the sounds and styles any more as they are all top notch but more about the layout, navigation, and ease of use feature when playing live,....this is where KORG Pa4x, Pa1000 features shine way above the rest for the live performer in so many ways cool2

Posted by: SemiLiveMusic

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 01:03 PM

For the price of the Yamaha, it's a shame that can't include pretty much everything everyone is asking for!
Posted by: Jerry T

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 08:59 PM

In my humble opinion, Ketron still has the closest to live sound. I have Korgs, spent time with Yamaha, and to my ear, the Ketron, especially bass and drums sound much more 'real'.

Ciao,
Jerry
Posted by: rolandfan

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/03/17 11:43 PM

Its not about the sounds and styles any more as they are all top notch but more about the layout, navigation, and ease of use feature when playing live,....this is where KORG Pa4x, Pa1000 features shine way above the rest for the live performer in so many ways

That makes alot of sense. And pa4x is cheaper too right.  
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/04/17 03:09 AM

A lot of truth in theory... but final thoughts are a little slanted.. smile

9 out of 10 "performers" use a saved performance setting for a song with 4 one touch settings.... How much navigation does that take? grin

For the other 1 out 0f 10 "players"... navigation varies but is not critical... Learn your keyboard and apply your skill level the best you can smile


Some thoughts...I find it annoying with Korg... "pop ups" drive me crazy... It shows no thought was used in development and add ons..
A touch screen is suppose to eliminate this concept..

Cost effective...many better options besides the PA4x and Genos..

Korg 1000 or 700 for starters..

And what is easier to use then a Roland E-A7? (a third of the cost of Korg and a sixth of the cost of Yamaha)..

Nothing wrong with wanting the top models ... if getting ripped doesn't bother you... and you can afford them.. but you need to adjust your theory a bit.. grin


BTW: I thought the Yamaha demos showed superior sounds and drums to the Korg... I thought the Concert piano demo was excellent, and detail of the drums were some of the best.. Neither the piano or drums in the Korg excite me smile

What I don't like about Yamaha is the overall sound... The sounds are effects oriented..
They lose the live sound...
Has anyone ever altered the sounds effects to see if the sample quality is good enough to sound live on Yamaha keyboards?
Or does it destroy the sounds..

Years ago we use to strip down a sound of effects and listen to the sample quality .. This is what makes the sound better..
I guess that is why I always preferred Roland and their sampling procedure..(factory).
Posted by: Stephenm52

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/04/17 03:47 AM

Originally Posted By travlin'easy
I can clearly remember little old ladies paying $60,000 for an organ, and that was 30 years ago. smile

Gary cool


You triggered my memory to days in 1975-78 when I worked in sales at Avery Piano , at the time they were a Hammond organ and Steinway piano dealer. We routinely sold the spinet model called the "Aurora" at almost $5000, the larger model a console style was about $8000 as I recall we sold quite a few of those too. Both were big and lunky and didn't sound nearly as good as today's arrangers. That's the era when they dropped the tone generator system.
Posted by: tassiespirit

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 10/04/17 04:20 AM

In the end , isn't it all about the quality of sound, that we produce that counts. It must satisfy us first, and that is where everyone is different. Some like Yamaha, or Korg or Roland even Nord for example.

Then comes how you get it our of that durn box the way you want it to be. If it don't feel right or sound right even smell right; you are not satisfied till you find it.

A new plastic box, always seems to mean to gain something but you loose something else, and the new PA1000 does that; same as the Genos does with the Tyros 5. You loose something! I don't know why they do that but they do.

The real question to me is do you get what you real need, and then want you want. If not can you compromise with it; them if so go for it.
Posted by: Melodious

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 11/24/17 05:58 PM

agreed!!!!
Posted by: Bachus

Re: Genos vs pa4x - 11/25/17 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By tassiespirit
In the end , isn't it all about the quality of sound, that we produce that counts. It must satisfy us first, and that is where everyone is different. Some like Yamaha, or Korg or Roland even Nord for example.

Then comes how you get it our of that durn box the way you want it to be. If it don't feel right or sound right even smell right; you are not satisfied till you find it.


To me its about more then just sound quallity.. when comparing for example Pa4x to Genos and SD9.. most of us only hear the real differences in a direct comparrison. All 3 sound very good on their own..

Its also about being fun, feeling, and features..

And thats why i will not be really sattisfied till i have that one 88 key instrument with great keybed that combines all features of a Stage piano, synth workstation and arranger in one metal box.(dislike plastic)

I guess i will have to build one myself based on Varranger, Reason, bitwig and VST’s..