How many gigs just to pay for equipment?

Thought about buying an SD7 a while back...around $3,800. That would take me somewhere between 38 - 50 gigs just to pay for the keyboard....probably won't do it.

By the way, been taking a few months off from playing.....wife wanted a break, hip hurts, learning to fish again.

And, fishing is cheap compared to buying music equipment. That is, until a person decides to buy a fishing boat $20k and up. 😊

just baught a Parker 2320 sportfisher a few month ago and restored it if you come to so cal I will take you out .

Serious?

👍

Guitpic1,

I have usually bought a different keyboard about every year. All my music gear is used as a tax deduction. I usually get an idea from our accountant about how much I can spend each year based on our combined income and it has worked out really great. Along with my music gig millage deduction it just about pays for a new keyboard. Why not spend it on me instead of giving it to Uncle Sam!

Deane

As far as performing equipment goes, I try to pay for a new piece with one recording (sound score) job. They are 30 hour marathons that pay at lease $150.00 per hour.

If I can't pay for equipment in a job or two (I usually book an extra job when I get the equipment "Jones"), I don't need it.

I don't have much of a studio...)use a large one in Louisville), I'm not constantly updating. All I need is enough to output client roughs.

In the future, it will be, sell or trade an existing piece for something new, or do without. With over 300 stringed instruments, 45 amplifiers and over 50 keys, I "ain't sufferin".

Russ (equipment junkie) Lay

R.

You need a better bookkeeper. In realistic terms, if you were paid $100 an hour and purchased that $3,800 keyboard, 38 jobs wouldn't even come remotely close. The payments come out of your net profit - not your gross income. From each of those $100 jobs, you must deduct the cost of transportation, car insurance, liability insurance, repairs and maintenance on the car/van, meals if you eat out that day because of the job's time constraints, amortization and depreciation cost of your original gear, office operating expenses, advertising expenses, telephone expenses associated with the business, heating and air conditions costs associated with the home office, retirement plan, etc... So, out of that $100 you took in for that single job, if you really do things right, your net income is probably in the realm of about $35 on average.

There's a damned good reason I didn't upgrade from my PSR-3000 for more than a decade - it didn't make good, economical sense. The keyboard sounded great, I sounded great to my audiences, and I didn't need to suck a big chunk of money out of my bottom line, which all looks great until the day you fill out that Schedule C. Then, reality sets in. You suddenly realize that because you changed arranger keyboards and other associated gear like you changed underwear, you blew your entire year's net profit out the window and don't have a damned thing to show for working your ass off for 365 days.

Now, if you just perform for a hobby, you would be better off going fishing and playing music during your spare time at home, thereby eliminating the expense of being in business for yourself. Fishing is more fun, especially when you have a great day on the water, than performing in front of an audience and not making any money. When I was a bit younger and a lot healthier, I always managed to find a few days to go fishing each month. Usually got in about a half dozen trips to the Chesapeake's lower reaches, and one offshore trip for tuna and marlin. I can still fish for the big guys from the decks of the sailboat, but it's a bit more difficult and cumbersome because of the rigging. If you get to this part of the world, I'll be more than happy to take you out on the sailboat to catch some striped bass and bluefish in the lower Chesapeake. However, in the sailboat, it takes me about 3 to 5 days to get to the best fishing area, which is 180 miles south of where I keep the boat.

Gary

👍

You are right. I think that's why many real "pros" don't use the TOL gear....

By the way,that's a lot of sushi and sasimi!!! I caught some large halibut in Kodiak, Alaska. The local guys were taking a gun when fishing. I thought they were joking. Indeed, I heard gun shots from other fishing boats. As they reel in, they shoot the fish. The fish are so large that people can get knocked off the boat, and you don't drown, but freeze to death in 15 minutes. I heard that by law a commercial fisherman has to wear a special suite. The water comes into the suite and your body warms the water. You can survive two hours instead of 15 minutes. Wild Alaska. No wonder they call it the last frontier.

I have changed keyboards a lot, as most know. The timing of when to buy and when to sell is crucial. A LOT of people don't know how to buy gear from sources such as Frank. I have often played a keyboard for a year or so and sold it for as much or very close to as much as I paid for it. I've even sold keyboards that I really liked because the time was right.
Because of forums such as this and PSR Tutorial the word is getting out, but I still know of a lot of people who gladly pay full MAP price for their gear. And I'm glad they do.
If you keep it too long you may not be able to get a good price for it. You also have to be aware of when new models are about to come out because that can quickly drop the value of an item.
I almost got caught once a couple years ago in that trap. I had sold my PA3X to buy Ketron SD7. I had to buy another PA3x quickly because I couldn't rely on my Ketron. A week later the 4X came out and I couldn't return the 3X for what I gave for it just a week or so earlier. I got lucky and was able to sell it to a friend in Mexico. I did lose money on the SD7 because AJ would not take it back after I tried to use it for several months without success. But I was able to sell it too, losing only a couple of hundred dollars because they were in short supply. I'm sure the buyer was happy once they finally got it updated properly. If you are playing at home and it crashes, no problem; you just turn it off and back on and wait a few minutes for it to reboot. You can not do that on the job. It has to work every time, every night.
Well this turned into a ramble, but the point is that there is always more than one way to look at a situation. I enjoy using the latest, greatest tools of my trade and can nearly always find a way to justify it to myself, and I really don't care if it pleases anyone else, other than my sweet thing of course. She understands. Mostly. The PA4X is sneaking up on its third year and sweet thing has been around for 37, so it's all good! Think I'll keep 'em both.

Ha! She has kept you for 37 years, Don. I know these things because I'm very old, and Carol has allowed me to stick around for 55 years, she knows where the guns are kept and she can shoot better than most guys. Scary, ain't it!

Gary

no amount of gigs will help pay for a new keyboard . It is always a loss situation unless you are actually earning more money for the same number of gigs as a direct consequence of purchasing the new keyboard.

After raising family with four children; and now they are all gone, I created a special fund. I use the fund for things that I enjoy; keyboards are on the top of the list. I learn some of this from my friend Bernie.

Like Don I lost money when I bought a S970 and bought a Pa4x. Frank took the S970 as a trade, not as credit, I had it for 40 days and he was right.
Sold and bought 90% of my keyboards here on SynthZone.

Another good reason for this place.
John C

I agree that from a purely business standpoint, John,I,and a few others could have spent less on new gear and still retained our gigs. However, certain other facets are at work here behind the scenes; namely, the pure joy of making a new board your own, for example. I know there have been many of you that have depended on steady gigs to provide for your family, and, some have not been willing to sacrifice any income to any gear that would not be justified by not bringing in extra income or assuring that the show would go on without a hitch. Having said that, there are many that do not feel they have to hold such a tight reign and can indulge themselves in a little joy and feel good about themselves with the latest toy. This is where John, myself, and many others sit.

Life is short and ,for Gods sake, you better make the most of it. Nuff said, right Donny?

Bernie we only go around once Life is too Short To Dilly Dally !!

Just sayin'

Gary,
You are wrong my friend. My bookkeeper is right on track! Along with Don's comment about the right time to sell, millage and equipment cost deductions our total tax savings run about break even with the cost vs sales price of new equipment. Has been that way for me for 10 years.

Also, what Bernie said. if the money is there why not?

Deane

Deane, I am looking at this from the standpoint that there is no other source of income, and purely from a business standpoint. I have been in business for myself and doing my own books and taxes since 1975. When I had a CPA doing my taxes she said the same thing that I did.

Now, some folks sincerely believe that they NEED to change keyboards for just the fun aspect, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, from strictly a business aspect, it doesn't work. The number prove that every time.

Good luck,

Gary

Calculated correctly, the annual charge for depreciation comes off the top, just like mileage, advertising, etc.

To the extent that you would have more left if you didn't buy the equipment, that's also correct.

the whole thing looks "big" FISHY to me!


R.

I never kid myself about equipment. I know I am going to lose something if I sell used and buy new. If I can afford it and want to do it, I go ahead. As time goes on, I have a more business-like approach like Gary D and tend to hang on to things as long as they do the job. I am also lazy and hate selling on Ebay. But Don's comments are right on as well, when selling, you have to do so while it still has some value.

My thought is who cares about the money?....your happiness when playing is PRICELESS!!
always remember someone else will always spend what ever you have left after you gone.....
enjoy life every day as if it was you last......the minute your born your dying!!


have a great day!

Your thoughts are so upliting. Also, we know how much you love Google -- look up 'apostrophe' .

chas

----also 'contraction'.

Example - 'you are' - 'you're'.

Just sayin'

oh boy I didnt know we had English professors on SZ thats amazing?

TWO professors...one even tenured.

Ideally, when an instrument or anything else is completely depreciated, it costs you nothing, until you get rid of it and have to pay capital gains tax.

Remember, depreciation is deducted from your gross billing, before tax is calculated.

R.

I am qualafyed to be a Inglish perfesser my own self, but I never brag none about it much. Now them taxs is a whole nuther thing but I do no the sekret is too not git cot cheeting.

Now THAT'S more like it.



chas

Oops, I meant DASS MO LAC IT.



chas

Yep! Dats da way I looked at it. Chas, I, like you, cringe when I see the language slaughtered by a handful of individuals on the forums.

As to Donny's ridiculous statement "My thought is who cares about the money?....your happiness when playing is PRICELESS!!
always remember someone else will always spend what ever you have left after you gone.....
enjoy life every day as if it was you last......the minute your born your dying!!"

Get real, Donny. "Who cares about the money..." When someone pisses away every dime they had, not thinking about the future, that's usually about the time something catastrophic happens in their lives and they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. The very next thing they do is lean on their friends and relatives for money they should have been saving and investing throughout their working lives, but didn't have the foresight to do so. When the friends and relatives cash stream runs out, what the Hell, they usually switch streams and rely on the feds to support their silly habits. Most of the musicians I know who had that attitude do not have anything other than minimal Social Security to look forward to if, and when they retire. They pissed away every dime they made, living a happy go lucky lifestyle, and when they died, nearly all left a mountain of debt to their surviving spouses and children.

My fondest wish when I was still working was to have a year where I paid $1-million in income tax for a single year's income. Unfortunately, that never materialized, though I would have loved to live that dream. The big difference between me and most of the musicians I know personally is that I looked at musical entertainment as a business. I ran the musical entertainment business just like I would have run any other business - strictly up front and legit, claimed every dime and took every legal deduction. I did my own bookkeeping and taxes, mainly because I figured I had a vested interest in learning as much as I could about this aspect of business and wanted to know where every penny went that was being invested in that business and what every expenditure would produce. That's the same thing every successful businessman does. I planned for my inevitable retirement from the very first day of my working, adult life. Since my retirement last year, I have been doing my best to enjoy what little life I have remaining. However, I, and my wife, intend to leave a lot for the children when we're dead and buried. And, over the years, I have instilled this lifestyle into my children, both of which have retirement accounts, both work related and individual.

Granted, you should to enjoy what you do for a living, especially if you are self employed. If not, it's gonna be a long, hard road to ride till you reach the end, which is never far away. So if someone purchases a new keyboard just for the happiness aspect, that's just fine for them - I really don't give a damned and sincerely hope the new board makes them very happy. But, from a business standpoint, it's not a capital investment - it becomes a toy. There is a difference! Sure, you can deduct it on your schedule "C", but unless you depreciated it out as a capital investment, you also must subtract from that deduction the amount you got when you either traded it in, or sold, the old keyboard.

As for "The minute you're born, you are dying." That's true for everything in the universe - including the sun. However, it's what YOU do during the interim that makes the difference. I, personally, never lived for today. I lived for tomorrow and all the tomorrows I had and hoped that I had a positive impact on every person I met in life. Sure, you could be dead tomorrow, and I'm real close to that point, but there will always be tomorrows in my life until I draw that last gasping breath.

Sorry for the rant, guys and gals,

Gary

DISCLAIMER: Although I agree with Gary's statement above, I must say that I give a pass to our forum friends for whom English is not their primary or 'first' language. As one of the (very large) majority of monolingual Americans, I commend those people for having mastered the language to the point of being able to post coherently, especially on subjects as complex as music. Those of us that were born, raised, and educated here have few excuses other than laziness. Would it really hurt you to use a punctiation mark once in awhile (or proofread it before you post it). It would certainly make your posts less 'cringeworthy' (is that a word ).

On the other matter, ignoring financial responsibility in the pursuit of 'now' pleasure, will most assuredly yield the lifestyle you DESERVE in your retirement years. Sadly, your spouse/loved one probably DOESN'T deserve it. JMO.

chas

1, 2, Cha, Cha, Cha,...

For argument's sake, however, why does it have to be either strictly business principals or total fiscal irresponsibility? Many, including myself, have the means to enjoy indulging their whims, and take care of their responsibilities now and in the future.

True Bernie, but you're in that position because you PREPARED for it (or you hit the lottery, married well, or got a really big inheritance). For me it was lucky (I'm hesitant to use the word 'wise') investments and a stable, reasonably high-paying career.

chas

True Bernie, but you're in that position because you PREPARED for it (or you hit the lottery, married well, or got a really big inheritance). For me it was lucky (I'm hesitant to use the word 'wise') investments and a stable, reasonably high-paying career

It was no problem preparing $ for my seniors years. I was part of the depression; and my parents never changed their style of living. I hated living like that, but now I have come to appreciate their training. No lottery, married poor, no inheritance.

Buying a new keyboard improves my playing and singing. I get a chance to make corrections and improve what I had been I passing up. (Incentive)

One happy, positive camper, John C.

It doesn't necessarily mean you have an inexhaustible pot full of money to be able to buy the music gear you want. It is also a matter of where you choose to spend any disposable funds. I don't live large, but comfortable, and like John, I know how to be thrifty. I also love playing more than sailing, for example, hence I have what I want for my enjoyment. To each his own.