My next mini PA system?

A bluetooth speaker, some reviews say it outshines Bose Soundtouch 30 (soundwise identical to Sounddock 10), Sonos 5 etc.

Marshall Woburn:
90 W RMS Class D (2 x 20W, 1 x 50W)
2 x 5.25' woofers, 2 x 1' tweeters
Total weight 7.9 kg (17.4 lbs)
Frequency range 35-22,000 Hz.
Line in: RCA and mini jack

https://www.marshallheadphones.com/mh_de_en/speakers/loudest/woburn-black

better make sure it sounds good with a full frequency Kb going thru it...

Don't get distracted by the design... It just looks like a guitar speaker, it is has nothing to do with it, it doesn't even have adequate inputs for guitar. These new bluetooth Marshall speakers (Kilburn, Woburn etc.) have a massive frequency range.

ok good luck if you get it keep us posted.. but definitely not something I'd be interested in....

Thanks for the info.

It's good to keep up to date with the "tools" available for performing.

Jerryghr

I just tested my Bose Sounddock 10 again, playing the Roland BK-7m factory demo, Sounddock 10 volume at maximum and BK-7m volume at 50 percent. I flew backwards through the apartment...
If the Marshall Woburn is really even better as some write on Amazon, it must be an incredible beast.

Check this out friends, lightweight and powerful!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WF78GS4/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=

This looks like a really interesting portable amp . Too bad it's not available in the uk .

Yes, it's the main competitor to the big Marshalls, I read some reviews, but it's only produced for the American market, not available in Europe. (Mind that it is only branded Aiwa, but the former manufacturer Aiwa doesn't exist any more. But it is receiving very good reviews.)

One of my favorite reviewers is Oluv, a private enthusiast from Vienna who compares a lot of speakers.
Here he compares the AIWA against the much smaller Klipsch KMC-3, which I own and have already recommended here.
It is a bit weaker than the AIWA, but in reference to its size it is amazingly similar.

https://youtu.be/EaFtQNoYeKg

I haven't tried this with a keyboard...but works great as a home sound system and guitar amp.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Amplifi75

In addition I use it as a Bluetooth speaker for my iPad

reminds me of the Mackie Freeplay

http://mackie.com/products/freeplay

Recently I test-drove the Freeplay at a local GC. I had my insrument. So I was playing pretty much a full range of frequencies. I sat just a few feet in front of it and I was not impressed with its performance especially the lows.

no surprise there with these small speakers lets face it for low end you gotta PUSH AIR!!

Probably no comparison to the big Marshall, the Aiwa Exxos and the Bose Sounddock 10, whose bass really makes the room shake.

A great thread. Thanks for the link. How do you compare your Sounddock 10 with the KMC-3? I've been shopping for either the Exos 9 or the KMC-3. Now that you mentioned the KMC-3, I would have to bid against other members on eBay! LOL I like the small footprint of the KMC-3, but 8 D batteries would be a deal breaker and kind of defeat the purpose of its own portability.

I agree, but some of these small speakers mentioned by Rosetree seem to have a better performance/speaker size ratio. I really wanted to like the Freeplay for its pro features. Besides, by the time you add the optional battery it gets expensive.

I wonder how the Roland KC110 would compare with some of these new big sounding speakers. The KC110 is only 20 watts running on batteries. Then again, the bigger BA330 is also 20 Watts or so on batteries,but full sounds. Taking out the battieres in these units is a real chore, and I had a friend install a charging jack as shown in the attached pic(if I uploaded it right).

I tested them side by side yesterday in my apartment. Consider that the KMC-3 only weighs 3.5 kg, the Sounddock 10 weighs 8.4 kg, almost as heavy as a HK Nano 300. Given that difference in weight and the smaller shape, the amount of deep bass coming out of the KMC-3 is surprising. Overall, it can get really loud for a middle-sized living room, but the Sounddock 10 gets unbearably loud at maximum when standing in the same middle-sized room. I'd say subjectively twice as loud.
I also once compared the Sounddock 10 with a Bang &Olufsen Beoplay A8, which is rated 210 Watts RMS in total. The Sounddock 10 was considerably louder than the Beoplay and had a little more vibrating bass, while the Beoplay had a more precise sound with more stereo.
If you took the 230 Watts of the HK Nano 300 as representative of how "loud" it is in terms of human perception, the effective wattage I would give these different systems would be

HK Nano 300: 230 W
Bose Sounddock 10: 180 W
Beoplay A8: 140 W
Klipsch KMC-3: 90 W
Beolit 12 and Bose Sounddock portable: 60 W
Bose Soundlink III: 30 W

This is a subjective ranking based on tests I've done comparing two or more of these systems directly in our home over time.

Even if the Sounddock 10 has massive bass for a one-piece home system, it has audibly less bass than the Nano 300 (no wonder, it's a 6.5 inch subwoofer against a 8 inch), but stronger highs. Its weak point is the limited stereo width.

Here's a pic of a test from last year (I don't own all of these ...

Rosetree, very useful info. Thank you

As soon as the aiwa becomes available in the uk I am definitely getting one . This thing is simply incredible . I would love to play my arranger through it . It has such a full bodied sound and is extremely light . However for my smaller church gigs and birthday parties etc this thing would be ideal. Could easily be loud enough for 50 or more people .

http://youtu.be/c3IQP8W93sI

This a clip of the sound of this speaker 200 metres away !!

http://youtu.be/dKDpffAgzXk

The KMC-3 makes a good impression in Oluv's video, too, in relation to its size!
To me the difference in volume between the Exos and the KMC-3 seems about the same as between the Sounddock 10 and the KMC-3 (in my test), but maybe the Exos sounds a little more open and spatious.

Anyway, the Sounddock 10 is no more available new, and I forgot to warn: DON'T BUY THE BOSE SOUNDTOUCH 30!!! - Unlike the Sounddocks, it has a severe latency, sound won't be in sync with your playing!

Bluetooth has a delay when playing live - careful!

I agree dave.....wired is best.

Yes, BUT it is NOT because of bluetooth, the Bose Soundtouch 30 has a latency via LINE-IN, TOO!!!

It seems to be due to a new kind of signal processing Bose uses in the Soundtouch models, regardless of whether you use the Bluetooth function or connect via cable. These models are unusable for live playing.
The Sounddock models as well as the Soundlink models and the WaveRadio don't have such a delay.

So any time I think about buying such a speaker system for live playing now, I am anxious about a possible delay via cable, but I haven't encountered any like that of the Bose Soundtouch. It's really sad and stupid they are unusable for such a reason.
So I try to find a new speaker on display in a store and perform the following test:
- plug in a mini-jack Y-cable into the output of my soundsource
- connect one end of the Y-cable to the speaker with a mini jack line cable
- connect the other end of the Y-cable to headphones.
Then I can listen to the speaker with one ear and check the direct signal with my headphones on the other ear. In the case of the Soundtouch 30 the signals are completely out of sync, there's a severe echo.

The Marshall Woburn seems to be safe, I read a review of someone playing e-drums via the Woburn.

Yet another piece of good and important information from you. In speaking of Bose, once I was playing through a Bose Acoustis Wave Music System and I blew up the speakers. Now I am thinking of using a passive mixer such as the MX42 by Rolls with the Aiwa Exos-9 and the WI AudioLink - a stereo wireless system(http://www.widigitalsystems.com/) for my Roland midi accordion. I can even add Varranger wirelessly connected to the mixer. It is mainly the volume that blows up the speaker or a lot of devices connected to the mixer? It seems that the Aiwa Exos-9 can handle quite a bit of volume demand.

That's valuable information from you as well... I've thought about buying a Bose Acoustic Wave for a special price several times. I would never have expected the speakers blow easily! Did you crank it up to the maximum for a longer time?
There's one video of someone who blew his AIWA Exos, too. I guess no speaker is safe from that if you demand too much from it, but I am surprised about this happening to an Acoustic Wave.

No, I wasn't playing for a long time at all when the speaker died on me. I feel good about the AIWA EXos. That thing being that loud, I would be all right in many situations.

Just wanted to warn about the Marshall consumer speakers (Woburn, Stanmore, Acton). Reviews are excellent, users are thrilled about the huge sound of the Woburn, but unfortunately there are really MANY reviews of users whose Woburn, Stanmore or Acton suddenly stopped working after about 15 months (look at the 1 star reviews on Amazon.com - on Amazon.de there's no trace of this problem, as German reviewers haven't had it for more than a year yet...). Out of question for me to consider it any more.

Thanks for the info. I won't get near these Marshall speakers.I am still thinking of getting the Aiwa.

Meanwhile I saw some further video tests by Oluv (the well-known private tester on Youtube from Vienna) that clearly show that the Aiwa Exos is not extremely loud. It is slightly outperformed by the Teufel Boomster XL - and the Boomster XL is still not as loud as the Bose Sounddock 10.

Today I used my Beoplay A8 once again in the mid-to-large room in the picture (a registry-office wedding in a traditional rustic house typical of the "Münsterland" region in northern Westphalia). It filled the room with full piano & strings sound - not floor-shaking but really quite a big sound. It's amazing, it's just 4.3 kg (9 pounds)!

Yesterday I conducted a maximum volume test of
- Beoplay A8
- JBL Authentics L8 (rated 120 Watts RMS and 104db SPL)
- Bose Sounddock 10
and recorded it, so you can enjoy the result.

The recording was made outside the room in which they played, with the door closed, my Olympus LS-12 recorder right behind the door. Sound source was the BK-7m at 60% volume playing a rock style.
Of the three, the JBL L8 has the lowest SPL (!), however a good bass. The Sounddock 10 is BY FAR the loudest of the three.

If the specs are correct, 104db SPL at 1 meter for the JBL L8 and 102db SPL at 1 meter for the Teufel Boomster XL, you can expect the AIWA EXOS-9 to be no louder than the JBL L8 in my test, as Oluv has shown in his videos that the Teufel Boomster XL already outperforms the EXOS-9. So, both Beoplay A8 and Bose Sounddock 10 seem to be the better choice if volume is important. Regarding sound quality at medium volume, I prefer Beoplay A8 and JBL L8 over the Sounddock 10, and the Boomster XL would probably be an excellent solution, too, but a terribly heavy one.

Maybe I'll do another maximum volume behind-door comparison once again between Sounddock 10 and HK Lucas Nano 300.

I guess I'm going in the opposite direction. Today I used my new EV ZLX12p powered speaker. I want something I can use in addition to or besides my L1 Compact. It surely packs a punch, and at 30 lbs it's light and compact enough to fit in the trunk of my car. I actually bought this one used from Sam Ash and am very pleased with the bang for the buck.

The test HK Lucas Nano 300 against the big Bose Sounddock 10 is online now.
It's the same comparison, with the Nano 300 added at the end, using the same recording settings and scenario (recorded behind a closed door). The manual recording level used for the first 3 speakers was already too high for the Nano 300 sound, so the recording started to distort.

So, I have to admit, even the Sounddock 10 can't compete against the Nano 300. Listen yourselves.

I wrote some time ago that the Bose Soundtouch speakers cannot be used as a mini PA because even via cable aux-in they have a terrible delay.
Luckily, meanwhile there are several threads about this issue in the Bose user forums, as it is not only a problem for use as a keyboard monitor, but also for videos, PC games etc. So the issue has reached Bose, and I hope future models will get rid of the problem.

Disgruntlement is boiling in the Bose user forum. Some users have now stated that even the big Soundtouch SA-5 system with a separated amplifier has got the same delay problem via aux-in. Some wanted to use it within their DJ setup and found they heard their monitoring as an echo with delay. And the Bose support center wasn't even aware of this delay.

I'd like to know why Bose obviously developed such an extreme amount of digital signal processing that it takes 500 milliseconds to process the input signal... The Sounddock 10 did a great job without these shenanigans.

Has anyone tried/heard the Fugoo or Fugoo XL? These seem to get very good ratings (such as these (Below). They have a "Fugoo" and a "Fugoo XL" (larger). One feature that sounds good is that they have drivers all around (6 pr 8) so that it spreads sound around a room better, in more directions. These may not be "large gig" speakers but I wonder how they'd do for smaller more "intimate" gig/jam/party situations?

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/fugoo-style-bluetooth-speaker,review-2141.html

http://www.soundguys.com/best-waterproof-bluetooth-speakers-8214/

http://www.cnet.com/products/fugoo-bluetooth-speaker/

The Fugoo XL appears in some of Oluv's reviews and comparisons, it is a really small speaker, roughly comparable with the Beoplay A2 or a bit above. That means it's like the small Bose Sounddocks at best, or like B&O Beolit 15, but less refined.
I have used such speakers for very small congregations in chapels, but only if the audience is quiet. As soon as there is chatter, it won't suffice. The Klipsch KMC-3 is a lot stronger, next level would be Beoplay A8 or A6 or Bose Companion 50, probably Teufel Boomster XL or Aiwa Exos-9 in the same class, and Bose Sounddock 10 still louder.

You can compare the Fugoo XL to some others here in Oluv's tool. Select Fugoo XL and another speaker and "maximum volume".
http://switcher.oluvsgadgets.net

I recently bought/ tried several smaller speakers as there were some incredible prices. The latest I got is the B&O Beolit 15. I can really recommend it as a monitor and e.g.for small churches with quiet audiences. The bass is absolutely incredibly deep, and the general sound is very refined although not neutral.
With these small speakers You have to pay attention regarding distortion with piano sound. While normal/orchestral music is often rendered without any problems, pure piano sound sometimes causes a very bad distortion in the upper third of the volume range.
For this reason I recently returned the Vifa Helsinki, an absolute high end speaker. It couldn't cope with the massive mid frequencies of a piano sample. Same applies to the Sony SRS-X88. The Beolit 15 has absolutely no problem with it.

Heard the Fugoo in the store wasn't impressed,.......butI have a few of the JBL Charge 2 units and they sounds amazing for a Bluetooth speaker.

http://www.jbl.com/bluetooth-speakers/JBL+CHARGE+II.html

The Charge 2(+) was one of the better pocket speakers before the Charge 3 and the Sony SRS-XB3 were recently released. But this size of speaker is just enough to hear yourself play alone in the living room. The Fugoo XL is definitely much more powerful than the Charge 2, no doubt about that.

Here's one of Oluv's comparisons between Fugoo XL and Charge 3 (which is MUCH more powerful than Charge 2). The Charge 3 has no chance against it - but BOTH are no serious speakers for live amplification. It starts to get serious with the old Bose Sounddock portable/Soundlink Air, Beolit 12/15, Klipsch KMC-3 for background piano music and similar.

And I forgot to mention, what I'm most impressed of, is my pair of Genelec 8010. A really HUGE sound for their tiny size and only 7 lbs per pair. And of course premium studio monitor sound quality. They are stated to go down only to 73 Hz, but the bass sounds much deeper. No distortion of piano sound even at high volumes. It's bizarre: Some years ago I tried the bigger Genelec 8020B - they did distort with piano sound. These small ones don't - and they are much better than the former 6010. Just one small inconvenience: they require XLR cables.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_8010_apm.htm

P.S. I'm going to make a video demo of them some time.

I only use the JBL Charge2 for with my cell phone on the patio & it sounds great ......but in no way would I play music thru it with my KB, etc,......

I can't see anything in your last post, only the quote. Ah, probably a video. My smartphone can't display it...
EDIT: It was my smartphone, sorry.
Yes, great as a small studio monitor, but after my tests I can really recommend them as tiny live speakers as well. And unlike these one-piece speakers they provide a great stereo stage, too.

This interesting thread is becoming an expensive influence on me: I thought I was going to buy the Aiwa but now I am looking at the B&O Beolit 15 and the Genelec 8010, and I am saying to myself that these two are for different purposes!

Just heard some great news. And the international version of the aiwa exos 9 will be available in August this year from Amazon . Got this information direct from the company.

Good news. However, after watching some thorough comparisons between Exos-9, Klipsch KMC-3 and Teufel Boomster XL I'm sure that it doesn't have such an incredible SPL. Surely very good for the money, but if you can get a reasonably cheap used Beoplay A8, it will be more powerful sound with less weight (4.3kg). Of course without batteries. But I would be curious to test the AIWA against my units...

So how does the Beoplay A8 compare with Beolit 15?

Did some research on the brand, they are hard to find in the States. Very few reviews on the US Amazon, not that good, either. Someone mentioned a brand name Sonos. He said Sonos is much better than the A8. Sonos has hudreds of fantastic reviews. Many of these speakers are not found in local stores and thus hard to hear them yourselves. That' why I rely upon reviews of other users especially the informed like yourself.

The exos 9 has maximum spl of 100db. That's serious volume for a portable Bluetooth speaker and you have to take into account its cost to appreciate its value

100db SPL at 1 metre is not very much. The Klipsch KMC-3 is rated 105db at 0.5m, which corresponds to 99db at 1 metre. And it has considerably less Volume than The Beoplay A8 let alone The Sounddock 10. I also included The JBL Authentics L8 in my tests. It is rated 104 db @ 1 metre. Not even as loud as A8, let alone Sounddock 10.

Beolit 15 is powerless compared to A8. Totally different scale. 2 x 35W RMS vs. 2 x 105 W RMS.

(Sorry for my smartphone that inserts capital letters where they don't belong)

This is the comparison of AIWA against Boomster XL I was referring to. The Boomster XL is rated 102db, so still quite low in the ranking of JBL L8, Beoplay A8 and Sounddock 10. I wouldn't consider the Boomster XL anyway, as its weight is insane, 22 lbs, as much as the Nano 300 with its 116db. (BTW, the FBT J5a speakers are rated 113db @ 1m, with only 15 lbs weight per pair).

So this is my comparative recording of Beolit 15 (first) and Beoplay A8 at maximum volume, recorded behind a thin closed door again with the same recording settings.
I'm also attaching a picture showing the Audacity graphs of the recording (however these only indicate the maximum volume at the loudest frequency respectively).

Thanks ... interesting - yes, the A8 sounds like it has more power, but they both sound similar re: overall frequencies covered? Would you say "sound quality wise" they are similar (or not)? Isn't the A8 about 20" long and requires A/C power, while the Beolit 15 is about 9" size and runs on batteries? Thanks for posting this!
-Jim

I have the IK Multimedia iLoud speaker, and an older Bose Soundlink II speaker, so I did some tests with them both last night. I had used the iLoud (with my keyboard) at modest-volume, mostly acoustic jam sessions and it performed well, but I had never compared them. Here are my observations.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloud/

When I connected an iPhone and played some tunes to the speakers, the iLoud was very noticeably louder, and clearer than the Bose Sounlink II. The iLoud was also noticeably better in mids/highs than the Bose, to my ears. iLoud could get much louder and no distortion heard even at very loud volumes.

Then I connected both to my Tyros5. Again, I was (pleasantly) surprised with how loud and clear the iLoud was, compared to the Bose. I think the iLoud is rated 40W RMS, while the Bose (I read somewhere) is 20W.

The iLoud would definitely be loud enough for small-room gigs and moderate-volume jams. It could not compete with live drums, guitar amps, etc., but for modest jams, it has worked OK for me. Not for bass-heavy sounds, but for pianos, drawbar organs, or the 'arranger' turned on, all sound quite good, just can't expect a lot of thumping bass out of 3" woofers on the iLoud. Loud and clear and very good-sounding overall, but bass-drum / bass guitar sounds will be thin compared to bigger speakers.

The Bose, by itself (when not compared to something else) is a nice sounding speaker; it just doesn't get all that loud, and it's not as clear on highs as the iLoud.

If I could add even a very small subwoofer to the iLoud, I'll bet it would make a great sounding little system. . . .

I wonder if the Beolit 15 would be like an iLoud-on-steroids, i.e. louder and more bass, but still clear and crisp (I hope)?

-Jim

Watts don't mean anything to how loud the speaker will be.

I owned the Bose Soundlink III and also the Soundlink Air (which is identical to Sounddock portable soundwise). The difference in volume is massive, the Soundlink I/II/III is much lower in volume.
If the iLoud is much louder than the Soundlink II, I don't think the Beolit 15 would beat it in volume, but surely in deep bass frequencies. The Beolit 15 is not recommendable if you need high volume. I'm still hesitating whether to return it to Amazon or not. Genelec 8010 and Klipsch KMC-3 are clearly louder.

Jim, as you own the Soundlink II, why don't you use Oluv's switcher to test it against the Beolit?

http://switcher.oluvsgadgets.net

It's a reliable comparison tool, I can confirm that those speakers I have tested are properly recorded there and give a good idea of how loud they are. Oluv has recorded all those speakers with binaural microphones under identical conditions.
Select Beolit 15 and Soundlink III as the two speakers to be compared, then click on one of the genres listed at "maximum volume", and listen to it with headphones. (There's hardly any difference between Soundlink I, II and III).
I think even the iLoud is in the list...

Thanks, will give that link a try. Of course, loudness is not the ONLY criteria (criterion?) for assessing a speaker, but loudness with clarity and fullness of sound (which is subjective) and without distortion, seem like desirable traits. And yes I understand that Watts-RMS is not the only thing that affects a speaker's loudness. . .

Thanks,
Jim

The switcher website is quite slow at the moment; don't forget to press the green Play button after clicking on the respective track under 'maximum volume'.
I just compared iLoud and Beolit 15. - The iLoud sometimes sounds terrible at maximum volume there, completely distorted, depending on the track selected. The Beolit 15 is just a bit less loud, but completely clean. On the other hand, at some tracks I like the iLoud more, as it is more neutrally tuned and has more stereo.

Regarding your other question, differences between Beolit 15 and Beoplay A8 apart from the volume: in terms of frequencies covered, the Beolit 15 is nearly as good as the A8, the bass nearly equally deep, and crisp highs; the mids are a bit underrepresented in case of the Beolit 15, the A8 is a bit more neutrally balanced.
There's one major disadvantage of the Beolit 15: it has very little stereo (some are convinced it is completely mono, but I don't think so). The construction is not designed for real stereo (only one full-range speaker, three tweeters).
The A8 has wonderful stereo, with two woofers and tweeters in a distance of about 50cm / 20 inch.

One more comparison, I thought this was worth making a video out of it. Beolit 15 vs. Klipsch KMC-3 vs. Genelec 8010, all recorded at maximum volume with my usual settings.
The Beolit has the clearest highs through the door, I'm surprised the Genelec are slightly muffled, but powerful. The Klipsch is loud, but starts to distort in the bass.

Thanks for the addition info and test! FYI, when I tested my iLoud with Tyros5, I didn't put it at MAX volume; I turned it up to max then backed off a couple of LEDs-worth (as shown on the volume knob). Then I had the Tyros5 at 1/2 to 2/3 volume, and played. The iLoud was VERY loud for its size, and I heard absolutely no distortion. Don't know if I would have heard distortion if I took the iLoud to its absolute max volume (will have to try that).

I like how the iLoud sounds with the Tyros, except I'd like a little more bass. One option is for me to find even a small/modest little subwoofer to add to it. This is all mostly "for fun"; I use the iLoud mostly at small jam sessions and parties; have thought it might be OK for very small gigs (say a living room sized place with 10-15 people listening. For bigger gigs (and duos/trios) I use my Nano 600.

Jim

You probably can't beat the iLoud with respect to weight:loudness ratio, as it is only 1.3 kg / 3 lbs. The Beolit 15 is already 2.7kg/6 lbs.

I wonder why the Genelec 8010 put out so little highs compared to Beolit and even Klipsch. The Klipsch has been criticized by some to be slightly muffled, but compared to the Genelec it's extremely crisp. I hope everything's ok with them, I got them as B-ware. But I think they are ok, the highs are not absent, just much lower in volume. I remember other Genelecs also had less highs compared to a Bose Sounddock... Maybe it's part of the neutral character, and these consumer speakers are more and more tuned for bass and extreme brightness...

I have to correct the bad impression the Genelecs made in the last comparative recording; now I set their bass filter to -4dB, and it sounds a lot better: