Songstyles or generalstyles...

What do you prefer.? (Considering you have acces to several options for a song)

1)Using songstyles which are specifically created for a certain song, including the perfect intro

2)Or using general styles which can be used for many songs, dont sound as authentic as songstyles, but give room for your own interpretation of a style


And while we are at it, several other style related questions..
- do you edit your styles any further then volume settings and choosing instruments?
- do you create your own styles?
- do you buy style packs regularly?
- would you consider yourself a style collector?


Or are you stricktly a midi-file user?

I prefer general styles, unless there is a song that has specific drum beat.But, for regular let's say 8 beat song I would always go for general 8 beat style.I still prefer playing as much as I can ..
I also don't want to sound that close to the original.What is the point then playing it live.
I do a lot of fixing to the styles I use.Basically every style in my keyboard I will change something.With T5 I always start with drums, and I go from there.
I don't make styles myself.I don't have time or will to do it from scratch.

It depends on the song. Some of them have such an identifiable hook and/or drumbeat, or tempo change, that if I can't play it exactly right, or don't want to, it is easier to use a song style. I'm thinking about Sweet Home Alabama, Suspicious Minds and a few others.
I use probably 98 percent general styles and make 'em work.

I too have edited song styles for certain songs, changing voices, drum sets, etc. ... There is a ballad style on my KORG Pa900 that the Intro and Ending 1 is perfect for "Unchained Melody", but when I use that same style for any other song, I use Intro 2 and give my own intro ... Other than that, I fall in with what mirza and Don said about 'specific' styles ...

I can think of only 5 midi files that I use regularly: the Bobby Darin version of "Mack The Knife" (edited to add a 1 chorus piano solo); "New York New York"; "Sweet Caroline"; Van Morrison's "Moondance", and "My Girl" ... I have others but seldom if ever use them ...

I'm with DonM (and others) in that mostly I use general styles. I try to find (for example) an 8-beat style (from the many onboard) that seems to "work well" for a given song, even if it's not exact.

There are a few exceptions; someone gave me a great style for "In The Mood" that I now use. I also use a few others, can't think of them now, for songs that (as other said) have an unusual or unique hook or rhythm to them. Oh, I bought one a long time ago that is great for "Time Is Tight", so I use that song-specific one.

Probably ~95% of the time, I find a general styles that works well for each song that I set up up Registrations for ...

Jim

I'm kinda of in the middle with this, mainly because I have thousands of great style files, many of which are song specific. If there is a song, such as Sweet Home Alabama, Old Time Rock And Roll, Bad Leroy Brown, My Girl, and loads of others with specific, identifiable intros that always seem to trigger a positive response, I'll go to those styles every time. If the song is more of a generic nature, and I can accurately play the intro, I'll use one of the onboard styles, most of which do not require tweaking or tuning for the song.

Good topic,

Gary

I only use about 30-40 goto factory styles, converted, or third party, that are tweaked for my needs that will cover any song in my repertoire,.....I either use the factory or play my own intros, endings, etc, if needed or make up your own,..I also use these same styles to record more complex multitrack backing tracks too adding the parts I want..

i'm using Editied factory Styles as I have for years and am now delving into Edited SMF's. Actually having fun playing along with the SMF's since Roland included the Mark/Jump function in the BK9 menu.

I hear ya Bill with the SMF it's just like playing with a band..and leaves two hands free to concentrate on the keyboard ..etc,..mix it up baby!

I really don't use the factory intros much. Only on a few songs, such as Blue Suede Shoes, Heartbreak Hotel, etc. The Korg intro number two allows you to play your own chords and it is useful sometimes. 90 percent of the time, I just use Syncro-start and play my own intro with one of the style variations.
I almost always use the short ending too.

Hi Jim:

As a songwriter, I have no choice but to use "general" styles. I don't do "covers" of other writer's work and I don't perform like 90% of the fantastic keyboard artists and singers here. If I were in the same league with you guys, my answer would most likely be identical to the unimitable Don Mason.

I do considerable "tweaking" of most styles and significantly rely of well chosen multi-pads to add "verve" to my songs. I sing my own original songs to eliminate the high cost of demo singers. Without the Arranger Keyboard, I would be "dead in the water."

So why do I "hang-out" here, you may ask? There is so much to be learned from guys I consider to be keyboard experts and the assistance Donnie, Gary, Don and so many others provide, I would soon be sidelined, not knowing some of the "tricks of the trade" these guys generously share.

Great thread! Thanks for posting it.

Dave Rice

Yes, mark jump loop SMF.... Works perfectly when for example playing piano style...

The next step will be more ableton like, where you launch scenes ( much like the yamaha mobile sequencer on ipad). Which not just allows you to loop, but also allows you to directly combine tracks .... With real time transposing to the mainchordtrack...

Just perfect, the sequencer is far from death, and its becoming more intuitive and dynamic as we speak....

I use general styles mainly. But they are heavily edited including reprogramming the bass ,guitars, drums, pads ,strings you name it. I also on occasion create from scratch .

It's what makes using an arranger so much fun .

Basically, I used unedited factory styles when demoing the instrument at Yamaha clinics/demos, but I also did extra clinics on style editing, which is pretty straightforward and even rank beginners can have fun customizing styles.

For my own stuff, I use heavily edited styles, usually based on Yamaha factory styles. PSR Tutorial has all kinds of free downloads of styles taken from the older and newer PSR, Tyros and CVP so it's a great resource, and a fine place to start.

I generally edit the three intros so that intro one becomes a one bar stop/fill, and intros two and three are generally eight bars long and reprogrammed to allow me to play chords so they can be either extra Variations or Intros depending on what I need.

So, to answer the initial question, I rarely use song specific styles and, if I do, they are usually ones I have further edited to put my own stamp on the tune.

I enjoy playing tunes in alternate genres, but I also try to keep them recognizable to the average listener (i.e. I play Sting's Fields of Gold as a medium Country Ballad).

Many of my styles were created on the earlier instruments I used (or owned) so I re-edit/update them as necessary to suit my current arranger, which is a Tyros4.

Styles are a crucial part of what I do, and, I don't just use them to color my songs; like Dave Rice above, I often use them to create original compositions.

I've never considered using styles as a crutch...they're part of the art.

Ian

With all the complaints about factory styles, etc, not filling certain genres or players neededs manufacturers should start implementing a way to CREATE STYLES from scratch on the KB alot easier then the process they have now on all arrangers....after all styles are the life line of an arranger KB.

They should make good tooling to do so....
With a GUI nothing is easier then copying tracks from an excisting style to a new one..

But creating styles from scratch, get a good sequencer on your PC and use that to create new style parts... As long as arrangers dont have big screens and professional sequencers build in, creating styles will not be very effective on an arranger..

There are enough 3rd party programs to help you with that...

I use a few song specific styles ( Mostly provided to me by Gary Diamond- thanks Gary) I use them for songs that have those iconic intros that I can't pull off on my own. Here's a few tunes I use song specific styles for:

In The Mood
Chatanooga Choo-Choo
New York New York
Black Magic Women
Bad Bad Leroy Brown
Hot Stuff
Just The Way You Are (Billy Joel)
I'm Your Venus
Proud Mary
La Bamda
Mr. Saxo Beat

donny

I agree but "how do you do it " !!!! I'd love to do Styles from scratch. The manuels are totally inadequate, at least for me, and Roland has not produced any learning videos. How hard would it be o have someone walk through the process and record it to a DVD ? I've said this before, if they would teach people how to get more from their products thy would sell more. Simple right ?

Bill, it's actually not all that difficult using Yamaha's onboard Style Creator program, which is found on nearly all PSR and Tyros series boards. However, these days, making a style from scratch is insane when you can find more than 50,000 great styles at the PSR-Tutorial site alone. Find an onboard style that's relatively close to what you wish, then go to work using Style Creator, create your own intro, ending, and fills, change the instruments, do any of those, things, and within an hour, you can have the most fantastic style you wish. However, there is a learning curve, just like anything else that demands creativity and hard work, and that curve, sometimes can be quite steep. Fortunately, at the PSR-Tutorial site there are dozens of great instructions to make that curve a lot easier to learn.

Not sure about the other brands of keyboards, but Yamaha, at least for me, has made this an easy task,

Gary

Thanks Gary but I have a Roland BK9 and tons of old Styles on CD. Having some song specfic ones would be a bonus.

Bill, I sure wish I could help, but all the song specific styles I have on hand are Yamaha. I know they can be converted with EMC Styleworks, but I'm betting it would be a lot of work to tweak and tune them to sound good on your machine. Maybe Fran C can provide some more insight on this.

Gary

Bill
I am thinking of getting a BK-9 to compliment my S910, mainly for the drawbars.

I would like to pick up a used one, but probably will have to wait until Roland brings out a successor.

How are you liking it.
Bernie

yamaha and roland is a good combination, the sounds add to eachother...

However its not that hard to find a used Bk9, i have seen several available on this forum.

To those with BK-9 keyboards...

Regarding the BK-9...I have had several queries on it as well, and one I have been unable to answer is about the Chord Sequencer's inability to change keys (transpose) while in use.

Any updates on this issue, and has it been fixed or addressed?

Ian

Bernie

I really am happy with the BK9. It allowed me to scale down my keyboards, mostly because of the very good Hammond sounds. It does all I want for preformance . And its light. Took some time to figure a few things out but I think I've got it under control now. Creating my own Styles is a project for the winter

Ian
I've never really used the Chord Sequencer in live action. Played around with it at home but never attempted a key change while its active. I will give it a try when I get out to the studio and let you know.

Thanks Bill

Good to hear.

Thanks Bill. I thought the implementation of a Chord Sequencer was an excellent addition to a very nice arranger, but several people have told me the CS does not transpose while playing.

To some, this will be a major crippling of a terrific idea, as it is nice (and very effective) to be able to do a key modulation either before or after a solo.

To others, it may not matter very much at all.

It would matter to me.

Perhaps all it will take is just an OS update to put things right.

I agree about the BK-9's Hammond sounds (and drawbars)...very authentic sound, and great positioning of the 'bars.

Another quick question, can the rotary speaker be pre or post other effects?

Ian

Is there a Vocal processor or Vocal Harmonizer on the BK9?

No, its not

Donny

Theer is a mic input and some basic vocal effects, no harmonizer. I find it very useful to have a mic volume and mic effect control right on the LH side of the board.

I think it was a cost issue as with the touch screen idea. Let the user choose which outboard vocal processor they like, ( and from the demos I've heard Rolands is very good ) and add an IPAD for the touch screen. Still trying to get the correct cable to hook my IPAD up with the BK9.
I really don't miss that at all because when I'm working I'm not changing things that much during a song. Volume control for parts mainly and that can be done on the fly with the drawbars.

Thanks for the quick reply, Bill. It's a shame that key change is not recognized by the Chord Sequencer...maybe there is a possible fix.

It would be nice if the other effects could be set pre or post Leslie...some work better before the rotary than after.

Ian

When talking about adding another Roland keyboard to a yamaha arranger, you could also opt for Fa06 or Fa08 which are both cheeper then bk9 but have more to offer soundwise.. More supernatural acoustic sounds, super natural synth sounds, an awesome arpeggiator, 2 virtuall expansion slots... 6 knobs for direct controll over your sounds.. A nice sequencer, and a delicious little sampler

However, its either 61 or 88 keys, and does not have arranger functions.. But then, you allready own a yamaha arranger..

Well, there is a mic input and vocal processor, but no harmonizer.

Bachus

Good thoughts, except the Hammond sounds with a believable sim was my main attractiom. I have a Neo Vent, but of no use on a MOTL keyboard without direct outs.

Other than that, it is a good idea.

Hi

Are we discussing "Songstyles or generalstyles..." or "BK9" here...?

Jørgen

Yes.