Trying something new

Instead of recording to the Zoom R16 I've used the Zoom as an Audio Interface and recorded directly into Cubase, this is the first very quick attempt but to me it seems to be a crisper result, comments please.

BTW someone mention Tequila Sunrise so I thought I would give it a try.

https://app.box.com/s/yt4jl5nfrzsxz1htjib7

The style is Easy Ballad from the BK-7M

No Guitar fill's me no D Mason LOL

Col

Nice Col.
I'm going to try that style out. Seems to fit perfectly.

It's the same audio converters, shouldn't be any difference at all unless you are recording 16/44 into Cubase and recording MP3 into the zoom.

I'd take off all that vocal doubling though... Yikes! Sorry, but I had to say it.

Ha Ha, there's me thinking no one would notice. It was such a wobbly recording I had to cheat to make it sound "half decent"

The sample rate was 48kHz, Cubase will let me use 96kHz which might be interesting. I'm going to re-record it so we will see!

My previous PC was too slow to try the audio interface mode so it is a new experience, much messing about to be done.

Col

try singing it straight ...and then go back and put in the harmony if needed ..

I agree with Donny, Col. Try it straight and then add some judicious harmony in a few areas - I sincerely think it will make a huge difference. And, I really love that style - I'll have to steal that for my Yammie.

Gary

I agree that is a good style.

44.1/48/96, it doesn't make ANY difference...

TBH if you want to make a CD version, use 44.1kHz

48 and 96 make you do a sample rate conversion that isn't a simple math division (use 88.2 if you MUST go higher sample rate) to convert to the 44.1 that CD's use.

But the voice has nothing much above 9kHz even for harmonics (and fundamentals only up to 900Hz or so)... male voice, that is. Check out this chart: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthre...cal-Instruments you can learn a LOT from this. So all that extra sample rate is wasted, anyway.

Overall, if you are getting a 'wobbly' sound, pin down if it's your voice or the gear. Maybe you have a mismatch between the sample rate of the converter and the sample rate Cubase is running at, maybe you don't have the audio interface's sample clock synced to Cubase (or the other way round, actually, I don't think the Zoom's can run off external clock)

If it's your voice, practice, practice, practice! Stand up while you sing. Take bigger breaths than you think you need. Relax!

Or buy a copy of Auto-Tune, LOL

By jove I can wind you guy's up with a bit of harmony or doubling LOL.

Let me explain my latest recording set up.

The mic goes into a small Behringer Mixer (Xenyx 802), a aux out takes a feed to the mic input on the G70 to trigger the harmony's, The main outs from the mixer go to the Zoom, inputs 1+2.

I shut down the lead voice on the G70 also the vocal effects and send the vocal from the G70 (harmony only) to the Zoom inputs 3+4 again with no effects.

This gives me two mono tracks (1+2) containing the lead voice (both tracks identical with no effects) and two mono tracks (3+4) containing left and right mono harmony voices.

The main outs from the G70 carry the bass and accompaniment the direct outs carry the drums.

I am then using 4 mono and 2 stereo tracks.

To create doubling I just nudge the second lead voice track along a few milliseconds, vary the effects a touch and pan the voices out a little.

The harmony can be applied anywhere using automation within Cubase.

With this set up all the edits, effects etc are non-destructive so it's possible to remix without a problem thereby keeping both my wife and you lot happy.

Diki: it's not the equipment it's my breathing, my lung's ain't quite as bad as Gary's (I think) but the ravages of time ....

Funny you should mention Autotune LOL

My main object now I'm no longer gigging is to improve my recording technics which involves a lot of experimentation,I also include my singing and playing if possible (the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak). I consider your comments very helpful and I feel that, slowly, very slowly I am getting there.

In the meantime I am also providing free entertainment for you Guy's who don't mind criticising my efforts if not other folk's.

All the very best, and thank you for taking the time to listen and comment.

Col

PS: Diki,thank you for the link to Polk Audio, very useful.

Nice stuff, Col...I do admire your enthusiasm and attitude.

Music should be fun...I guess that's why they call it "playing".

It's nice to experiment...I'm having fun with Vocoding (using the vocoder in my Tyros4)...a nice diversion from my regular playing. It's a real hoot (sometimes literally!).

Keep them coming!

Ian

I'd say kill the doubling. Keep only ONE copy of each harmony part.

Machines (at least not this one!) simply can't do doubling very well. It's a pretty subtle effect in real life, on a VH machine it's a recipe for sounding like a bad acid trip!

Diki: I think you misunderstood I don't use the VH for doubling I use two lead voice tracks recorded direct into Cubase and alter the timing on the second track to give the doubling effect, overdid it on Tequila Sunrise but we all make mistakes, well some of us do. LOL

"He who never made a mistake never made anything" not sure who said it but someone must have.

Col

Col, that recording setup sounds like some very innovative thinking! I just plug into a Tascam recorder and go. I do like the sound you're getting on the style.
I pulled up this style and tried it but the guitars are much more subdued that they are in your recording. I assume you raised the levels of the guitar strums in your style. Anyway, keep on pickin', as they say here in the south!
I think all the constructive criticism is well-intended and you have some pretty knowledgeable minds on your side! And some of us are just listening and learning!

Hi Don

Your right about the style, if you use variation's 1 & 2, try lifting the volume on the first guitar and the last Guitar. Don't use the third and fourth variation they mask the guitar.

Regarding the feedback: I really feel lucky to have made some good friends on this forum and one's who are not afraid to tell it as it is.

Keep on criticising and hopefully I'll keep on improving, as they say over here in Lancashire "Thay're never to owd ta larne"
at least I think that's what they say.

Seventy two years old in a couple of week's.

Thank you all, even Diki

Col

Col ... when I am making a recording 'for keeps' (like a Christmas CD ) I use a similar method ... Using my ZOOM H4n, I record the background on Tr4, RH solos on Tr3, Lead voice on Tr1 and harmony on Tr2 ... that way, if I goof up (when DON'T I ) I only have to record the one part again ...

Whether you do it in the VH or in Cubase, simply taking the SAME vocal and moving it a few milliseconds isn't really 'doubling'. There ARE some hardware and plug-ins that do it well, but they do a LOT more than simply copy and move in time... that tends to lead to that 'phase-y' or chorused sound that mars that track.

The best doublers constantly move the amount of time the doubled track is in relationship to the original, and also move the pitch around somewhat, so you don't get the phased sound that close moves give you, or the slapback sound that moving it far enough away that it doesn't flange/phase.

But the best 'doubler'? Sing it twice! Work really hard on using the exact same phrasing you did the first take, then chop it up in Cubase whenever it gets a tiny bit too far from the original. A hair of Auto-Tune on the doubled take can help, too.

No school like the old school!

Diki: I'll keep trying

My good lady thinks one of me is more than enough LOL

Hard enough singing them once but twice, I haven't even tried multi tracking yet, basically I'm a lazy sod I suppose.

Col

To be honest, Col. I think you have the typical singer's lack of confidence in your own voice. Most of us have that, but forget it, sing the song and let your voice "speak" for itself. It does not need to be hidden; it sounds fine. Try that, and it will only get better!
Been there done that!

Cheers Don, a little encouragement goes a long way.

Col

Listen to Willie Nelson... not a great voice, but they don't swamp him with effects!

The trick is, you are going for the emotional core of the song... all effects do is make that harder to hear. One voice, no tricks (OK, you want to get fancy, a hair of Auto-Tune, not enough to hear it, can help a bit!), minimal plate reverb, mixed up close and in your face, people connect with that.

But processed, homogenized, patently fake harmonies and cheap ADT only serves to turn them off. You'd be amazed how OTHER people like your voice, even if you don't! The list of great stars that HATED their own voices is as long as your arm! Didn't stop OTHER people liking them, though.