So is the Tyros 5 all glamour?

Seems at PSR tutorial many people are unhappy, as you can not edit your own sounds anymore on the keyboard, seems Yamaha promissed some PC software for sound edditing, but none got a clue when it releases..

Also the loading of new packages sounds and styles seems only possible from PC, there is an expansion manager software from yamaha that allows you to upload expansions from your PC (no MAC as of yet) and even create your own expansion packs.
But it seems the same software package is required to load 3rd party packs and sounds intoo the flahs memory, on top of that it does not support some of the standard files that T4 did. The 3rd party packs and sounds get tested by the expansion manager on compatabillity (which is a great thing to do for improved stabillity) but sadly for some people more then half their T4 repertoire cant be used anymore..

Seems Yamaha is turning more and more to PC as a support mechanic for Tyros..

So far people are less then happy with these changes as it does not work as well as intended and their workflow gets changed. We will have to see how things work out.. Does not seem that early addapting to a Tyros 5 will be the smartest thing to do for people that rely on it for their live performances. We will have to see how fast yamaha can improve the software and come up witrh the packages people need..



not that its all bad, maybe the sound editor will allow the Tyros to work as a VST host/ client... But then, still it will be horrible not to change sounds on the arranger itselves for most people..


or maybe my understanding of Tyros indepth technollogy is not deep enough, so i misunderstood most of it...

Expansion manager topic over at PSR tutorial
Expansion manager discussion 2

Yamaha will sell hundreds of thousands T5 units no matter what. Same goes for T6 when it comes out in a couple of years.
Personally I'm looking forward to the next S series unit.

OMB guys are not the people who these arranger makers are shooting for. It's always the general public, the tech geeks and such. Us OMB guys aren't a drop in the bucket of their overall income. We're just extra money that they pick up. IMEHO

Bachus,
I owned both a Tyros 3, a Tyros 4 and now have a Tyros 5 on order. On none of these keyboards have I ever messed with sounds or cared if it was possible or not. No one in the US has one yet and only a few have been to the stores that do have them in stock and ALL of those people have posted nothing but praise for the keyboard. I don't know if I will like mine or not but one thing for sure, until I get my hands on one I won't be posting my opinion about it like so many others are doing. My thinking is if someone just has to edit sounds they should be looking at a true workstation - not an arranger. Yamaha did a survey about 2 years back about features of importance to arranger owners - guess that is why it has turned out the way it is.

Deane

Deane, I'll bet you wish you had that baby now, so you could sit inside out of the snow and sleet and deprive yourself of any sleep at all!

Ditto on messing with sounds.

All I know is I didn't expect to be overly impressed when I went to Frankiev's to demo. I was wrong, same thing happened with the Pa3x ya gotta play one yourself to make a fair judgement call.

Overhere people have theirs now for about a week or two, and are allready exploring them... Thats where the comments in the links come from.

Me, i am still undecided, wayting to get a good chance to testride one for langer then half an hour before i make a desigen. And in the main time gathering as much opinions and information as possible..

I also do not mess with sounds unless I change effect or eq a bit all in all i want a turn key keyboard this is why we pay the big bucks for not to rebuild it after buying it.

Yep,
We are Iced in for a day or two - not as bad as up north though. Folks around here go nuts when just the word "ice" is mentioned on the news. Really can't go anyplace though - drivers around here are nuts and the city folks really don't do a good job of getting roads ready for drivers.

Deane

Never had a Yamaha, always Korg, but I don't do a bunch of tweaking which, on Korg, is pretty limitless. That said, I don't think I'd enjoy a keyboard that didn't allow, or made difficult, the ability to change things. Obviously, I can't comment on Yamaha, or any other brand, but I'm just happy to know I can change anything in my board, if I should so desire.

I use my keyboards for live gigging and seem to spend what limited time I have with them at home developing material for gigs which seldom gets much beyond finding the best style for a given song and maybe changing an OTS or tempo setting and that is about it as far as making changes goes. If I was in the business of creating recordings for albums, tv commercials, or other commercial endeavors I would probably want to have the ability to change everything if needed. For me, that is not a big issue on an arranger keyboard. Fact is, there are dozens of features my keyboards have that I never use or have a need to use. I will be a happy camper with my T5 is it truly does sound as good as the folks who have played one say it sounds.

Deane

Hi there,

Yamaha just published the update schedule for the expansion manager in the german yamaha forum.

The good new is there is a schedule.

The bad news is the waiting keeps going. Until summer 2014 at least ...

Even worse might be, that there will be "a conversion" necessary, what means some parameters are not fully compatible with Tyros5. And that means the concerned custom voices might (will) sound different.

klick here for update schedule expansion manager

There is an official declaration of Yamaha in german language as well (google translation below):

Rellingen, 6.Dezember 2013

Offizielle Mitteilung von Yamaha Music Europe an Tyros Kunden:

"Mit dem Tyros5 haben die Yamaha-Ingenieure ein außerordentliches Arranger Workstation Entertainer Keyboard mit starken Funktionen und herausragender Soundqualität entwickelt.

Ein wichtiges Ziel bei der Entwicklung des Tyros5 war es, ein einfach zu nutzendes Instrument zu realisieren. Als Teil dieser Philosophie und basierend auf die Rückmeldungen vieler Tyros-Kunden wurde entschieden, den Voice Creator und umfassende Editierfunktionen in eine externe Software-Applikation zu verlagern. Diese wird die Erstellung eigener Voices sowie die Editierung und Zusammenstellung eigener Klang-Bibliotheken erheblich effektiver gestalten als bei den bisherigen Tyros-
Modellen möglich war. Auch in Hinblick auf das ständig wachsende Angebot an Premium Software eröffnet die neue externe Softwarelösung erhebliche Vorteile, um die Optionen des Tyros5 zukunftsgerecht zu gestalten.

Die externe Softwarelösung heißt Yamaha Expansion Manager (YEM) und wurde in der YEM Version 1.0 zusammen mit dem Tyros5 im November 2013 vorgestellt.
Die erste Version des Yamaha Expansion Managers ermöglicht den einfachen Transfer von Premium Pack Inhalten zum Instrument. Sie bietet erstmals auch die Möglichkeit, individuelle Pack-Inhalte wie einzelne Voices oder Styles zu transferieren, was eine effiziente Ausnutzung der Tyros-Speicherstruktur zulässt.

Kunden, die bereits Tyros3 oder Tyros4 Premium Packs gekauft haben, können diese kostenlos als optimierte Tyros5 Packs von Ihrem Downloadshop-Konto abholen und per Yamaha Expansion Manager im Tyros5 installieren. Die erste Version des YEM bietet auch begrenzte Funktionen zur Voice-Konvertierung. Die Ergebnisse der Konvertierung hängen sehr stark von der Struktur und Komplexität der jeweiligen Tyros4-Daten ab.

Yamaha wird die Funktionen des YEM in naher Zukunft weiterentwickeln, um optimierte Voice-Konvertierung und Editierfunktionen sicherzustellen.

Yamaha freut sich über die zahlreichen Kommentare und Wünsche zum Voice-Transfer von Tyros4 zu Tyros5 und bedankt sich für diese hilfreichen und unterstützenden Hinweise. Test-Voices diverser Drittanbieter, z.B. PEMO, W.O.K u.a. werden geprüft und der Yamaha Expansion Manager wird zur bestmöglichen Kompatibilität aktualisiert. Aufgrund der neuen zukunftsorientierten Voice-Struktur im Tyros5 kann eine 100-prozentige Konvertierung aller Tyros4 Custom Voices derzeit (Stand Dezember
2013) nicht realisiert werden. Voice-Libraries, die auf eigenen Wavedaten basieren und direkt am Tyros4 erstellt wurden, sind bereits konvertierbar. Custom Voices, die mit Hilfe des externen Voice Editors am PC erstellt wurden, sind aufgrund der besonderen Struktur derzeit noch nicht konvertierbar, werden jedoch mit Verfügbarkeit weiterer Versionen bis zum Sommer 2014 auch für den Tyros5 ladbar sein. Ein umfassender Voice Editor mit Import von Daten verschiedener Yamaha-Plattformen ist angestrebt.
Der aktuelle Entwicklungsplan* zu weiteren YEM-Versionen: (*Änderungen vorbehalten)
Version Geplante Fertigstellung Funktionen

V1.01 Dezember 2013 Optimierter Custom Voice Import und Konvertierung

V1.10 Februar 2014 Support für MacOS
V2.00 Mai 2014 Umfassende Voice Edit Funktionen, Erstellung eigener Voices auf Basis von eigenen Samples

V2.10 Juli 2014 Custom Voice Konvertierung von Tyros4 Preset Voices, die
Tyros4 Preset Samples verwenden

Mit der Einführung des Yamaha Expansion Manager-Konzeptes möchte Yamaha neue Wege zur Nutzungdes Tyros5 aufzeigen. Kreative Soundgestaltung und effiziente Datenverwaltung werden einfacher, intuitiver und flexibler. Auch Software-Drittanbieter werden ihre individuellen Angebote effizienter erstellen und anbieten können. Yamaha lädt Sie herzlich ein, die Vision einer faszinierenden und flexiblen Zukunft mit Tyros5 zu teilen."

Google Translation:

"Rellingen, December 6, 2013

Official Notice of Yamaha Music Europe to Tyros customers :

With the Tyros5 the Yamaha engineers have an extraordinary Arranger Workstation Keyboard Entertainer developed with powerful features and outstanding sound quality.

An important goal in the development of Tyros5 was to implement an easy to use instrument. As part of this philosophy , and based on the feedback from many customers Tyros was decided to shift the Voice Creator and comprehensive editing in an external software application. This will make creating your own voices as well as the editing and compilation of your own sound libraries significantly more effective than with previous Tyros -
Models was possible. Also with regard to the ever-growing range of premium software opens the new external software solution considerable advantages in order to make the options of Tyros5 future needs.

The external software solution is the Yamaha Expansion Manager ( YEM ) and was presented in the YEM version 1.0 together with the Tyros5 in November 2013.
The first version of the Yamaha Expansion Manager allows easy transfer of premium content pack from the instrument. It also offers the opportunity to transfer individual pack contents as individual voices or styles , which allows an efficient utilization of the Tyros - memory structure for the first time .

Customers who have already purchased Tyros3 or Tyros4 Premium Packs , they can charge as optimized Tyros5 packs pick up from your download shop account and install manager in Tyros5 by Yamaha expansion. The first version of YEM also offers limited features for voice conversion. The results of the conversion are strongly dependent on the structure and complexity of the Tyros4 data.

Yamaha will continue to develop the capabilities of YEM in the near future to ensure optimized voice conversion and editing functions.

Yamaha is pleased with the many comments and requests for voice transfer from Tyros4 to Tyros5 and thanks for these helpful and supportive evidence . Test Voices of various third-party , such as Pemo , W.O.K et al be tested and the Yamaha Expansion Manager is updated to best compatibility. Due to the new future-oriented voice structure in Tyros5 a 100 percent conversion of all Tyros4 Custom Voices can currently (as of December
2013) will not be realized . Voice libraries, which are based on own data and Wave were created directly on the Tyros4 have been convertible. Custom voices that were created using the external Voice Editor on the PC , due to the particular structure is not yet convertible, however, will be loaded for the Tyros5 with availability of additional versions until the summer of 2014. A comprehensive Voice Editor with import of data from various Yamaha platforms is sought.
The current development plan * to further YEM versions : ( * subject to change )
Version Planned completion functions

V1.01 December 2013 Optimized Custom Voice import and conversion

V1.10 February 2014 Support for MacOS
V2.00 May 2014 Comprehensive Voice Edit features , create your own voices on the basis of own samples

V2.10 July 2014 Custom Voice conversion of Tyros4 Preset Voices
Using Tyros4 Preset Samples

With the introduction of the Yamaha Expansion Manager concept Yamaha wants new ways to Nutzungdes Tyros5 . Creative Sound design and efficient data management easier , more intuitive and flexible. Also, third-party software providers can create and provide their individual services more effectively . Yamaha cordially invites you to share the vision of a fascinating and flexible future with Tyros5 ."


Edith says: The expansion manager v1.01 is said to be released until the end of next week.

Also found out that T5 works with a totally new sample format which formthe same instruments is more then 4 times as large as T4 samples...

Only downside to that, with still only a 1 GB sized free ram for user stuff, it will only support a quarter of the stuff that T4 could hold...

For example there was an expansion pack of 106 MB for T4 that is over 450 MB for T5 when downloaded.

I am totally happy with my Tyros-3. Does more than enough for me. I'll wait and save thousands of dollars for the Tyros-8

You won't have to save for Tyros8, by that time you can sell either the B3 or C3

Got a possible buyer come to look at my T4 from your general "hood" he's coming from Taunton up to my office in Franklin.

I had a choice of waiting to buy the T5 76 after the editing software comes out in Summer ............................ or buy it now, get it sooner, and start playing on it asap (even though I'd prefer to have the editor now), and start checking out and familiarizing myself with the new features. I chose the latter. What's wrong with those two options? IMO, it's good to have that choice.

This actually and far from being a detriment, sounds great news from Yamaha. One thing we can all rest assured about is, if they say they'll do it, they will! And
Further to this, by making the pc editor, this could open the T to much bigger opportunities from 3rd party developers to expand the T in many different and numerous ways. All sounds great so far, can't wait to get my T5 shouldn't be too far off now.

All T5 owners should give a vote for Yamaha to make this sound creator.Even if they don't use it.As Robbo said , it opens up more abilities for 3rd party sound developers.And with new sounds everybody benefits.

Bachus is totally wrong in telling soundpacks need four times the space needed in a Tyros4. The difference is only a few Mb's.
To be honest I don't understand why he is interested in a Tyros5..... his questions, his opinions, his comments, conclusions etc.

I got the information from a welrespected forum member at psr tutorial..

Overhere

And you dont have to understand why i might be interested, thats only of my own concern.

Quite the dreamer if you believe Yamaha will sell hundreds of thousands of Tyros 5's. The DX7 never sold that many units and it was Yamaha's most successful keyboard instrument ever and cost less than half what a T5 does. Even the Korg M1, the largest selling keyboard/ workstation ever, sold roughly 250,000 units. Again it cost less than half that of a T5.

The T5 at a retail of over $5 grand automatically limits it sales possibility to a low number of customers. The fact it's an arranger keyboard then takes that number and cuts it in third at best and that's being generous. High dollar instruments be it workstation, arranger, or otherwise simply don't sell well and have a finite market place.

I told Donny a MILLION times not to exaggerate.

I dont think we got any idea how many they sell...

The only one i know was the Korg Oasys, they tracked serial numbers (which started with 000001) on the korg forums and i think they sold about like 3000 of them.. They however are very very rare.


I would like to know how many of these tyros instruments yamaha ever sold.

There was a rumor being bandied about, that the Tyros4 allegedly sold in numbers greater than Tyros, Tyros2 and Tyros3...combined!

It sure seemed as though there were a lot of the original Tyros sold, and, again allegedly, the Tyros2 and Tyros3 both outsold it, and each other respectively, so it would be a good guess to say the number is probably quite high.

I also think it would be safe to say that arranger sales for all major brands have seen increases directly proportional to the growth of Internet users.

I do know I was very busy, especially the last several years, and even though I'm retired since April this year, I still get quite a few emails and phone calls regarding Yamaha arrangers.

Ian

Talking to dealers over in the UK for a number of years, the original Tyros was apparently outsold by the Technics KN7000 by 2 – 1.

Tyros 2 was ground breaking on its ease of use with articulation sounds, (Multi articulation had been out for years in the pro world but was always manually switched) and sold by the shed loads, with other manufactures just shaking their heads in disbelief.

Tyros 3 was a disaster sales wise (It was the only Tyros that flooded eBay shortly after its launch as users tried to get back their previous boards) as while it added SA2 sounds the OOTB experience was significantly inferior to the Tyros 2 it replaced, plus it also suffered from lack of processing power causing the Styles to stutter when using fistfuls of chords with large voices, (Only Yamaha diehards defended it) and is probably the reason it was replaced after 2 years rather than 3.

Tyros 4 just repeated Tyros 2 (And was really the true replacement for the Tyros 2) in that it left other manufactures trailing once more.

Tyros 5 is unknown at present, (Although pre-orders are large as with any new Tyros launch) but we will have to wait and see how it does. (Personally I think the ensemble voices let it down as while they sound great in professional demonstrators hands, they sound awful when played by normal home players, (Unlike SA voices) however I’m impressed with the new effects section which really brings it alive compared to previous models) S950 users say the S950 has the same, but to be quite honest I find the S910 to sound way better than the S950)

Bill

I just got an email confirming the Tyros4 selling more than Tyros, Tyros2, Tyros3 combined.

I feel the Tyros4 was what Tyros3 should have been. I passed on the Tyros3, although I have a friend who lives on the mainland that has the Tyros3 and loves it. I found the Tyros4 to have the edge as far as a "sweetness" (it's the only word that fits) in the sound, which I could not get on the Tyros3 no matter how it was EQ'd. Actually, the Tyros2 had much of that "sweetness", but for some reason it didn't make it to T3, although the latter still allegedly outsold it.

Some claim the Technics KN-7000 was the best arranger ever made, and who are we to refute those assertions? I never played a KN-7000, but I did play a KN-6000 and it was pretty nice, especially the styles, so I imagine the former was a real treat.

PSR Tutorial has quite a few Technics styles converted to work on Yamaha instruments. http://psrtutorial.com/sty/keyboards/technics.html

I'm curious to learn how the 76-note Tyros5 will fare in sales to the 61-note version.

Ian

If this is true then it's one more reason not to rush and buy the latest keyboard, just released. Better wait six or more months and let others do all the beta testing...or not?

Dreamer, I have not read anything on the forums, nor have I ever been contacted by Tyros3 owners concerning any problem with "styles stuttering" on the Tyros3.

I'm not saying that it never happens or happened, but, perhaps Bill could please point out where he got the info and confirm this issue?

I did, however, find the Tyros3 had a less sparkly sound...it was duller than Tyros2 and Tyros4, but some people seemed to prefer it.

I do agree on not rushing out to buy ANY latest keyboard, although nowadays upgrades can be done relatively easy compared to years ago.

Ian

Ian,
there is a lady on Steve Selwood's forum in the UK who is extremely adept with the Tyros keyboards. She posted today her Tyros 4 registrations are picking up the Tyros 4 voices in the legacy folder and play just great but will have to be revoiced to use the Tyros 5 voices. Rather interesting I think.


Deane

Thanks Deane...I think I know of whom you speak...she has always been a great help to me and many others.

I'll have a peek.

Ian

Why do they have to be revoiced to T5 if they play great with the T4 legacy sounds?

The only things i can think of as a non tyros player are either loading times when selecting a style with legacy sounds..

or

Sounds that where non standard and with edits in the T4 styles not laodign with those edits but just as the standard sounds..