No more Voice Creator on Tyros5!!!

What always blocked me from buying a Yamaha arranger was the lack of a 76 key model.
Now that Yamaha finally did it, they pulled another showstopper for me: custom voice creator/editor.
Yes... tyros5 does not have anymore the voice creator functions to import custom waveforms and also the Voice Editor PC software is not included with it.
So to expand voices you are forced to buy their premium packs.... this is a very bad move from them. Not counting the expansive flash memoryboard you are forced to buy...

In the reference manual it says custom voices creator, I believe.
I also want to order T5, but if that is missing than T5 is of no use to me.

My Friends I just registered on the psr forum and Posted some important info on that subject
so maby its a good idea to check that out
i give a example there of what i did and i was able to load
complete packs

Greetz Rico

I'm in the same boat. I was disappointed with this T5 upgrade but was going to get it anyway. But this is indeed a show stopper. The T5 without the voice creator is useless to me. WhY the heck did they cut something that they had already invented and was so useful?! It's extremely disappointing because even if they fix and add this feature it shows us the direction Yamaha is going...

Thanks Rico .
Why not posting it here too??

OK Guys i wil post it here to

chony dont be dissapointed yet my friend just wait till this gets solved

i wil copy what i wroted in the forum

PSR Tutorial FORUM MSG

Hi Keyboard friends my Name is Rico and i just registerd on the forum because i just wanted to add some info to this conversation

I succeeded to load packs completely
what i did is you can only load uvi files so i just open them up in Notepad
then i see this

Just an example i made

[Voice]Category=96Order=0Name=RicoIcon=S999LinkRel=Rico.S999.UVNLinkAbs=E:/sound/Rico.S999.UVN

Now the files where in a different dir and on a dif drive so i renamed the dir to sound and put it on E:

Now this pack loaded completely

then i went to pack 2 and there i saw this

[Voice]Category=96Order=0Name=Rico1Icon=S999LinkAbs=E:/sound1/Rico1.S999.UVN

so i rename again the dir en put it on the correct drive
This didnt load

the difference here is

S999LinkRel=Rico1.S999.UVN is not in the line

so i thought okay lets put that there

and that also worked

so as you can see you can get packs completely in only question remains are you able to send them
now if you can load compleet packs in to this program i dont see the reason why you should not be able to send those to your tyros

Maby this info helps you @ll Out

I wish you @ll a great time when your T5 Arives Smiley

Lets hope this gets sorted out !


Greetz Rico

Just heard from my dealer that Yamaha is developing both a PC and Mac program that makes it possible to use it as VoiceCreator and can handle non-Yamaha libraries/voices etc.. So please relax about this issue.... solutions are on their way!

But why would they release an unfinished product? They had 3 years to figure it out. Did they really think there wouldn't be an uproar?? Or did they want the uproar...

Yamaha is following a pattern. They used to be so reliable. But they're leased the T4 with tons of bugs, the s950 needed an update out of the box, and now they release a T5 without a voice creator and no official statement explaining their intentions.

I'm very concerned about what Yamaha actually thinks about their customers. To me it's seeming that they are no longer aiming at the pro-user but at the casual home user.

Kla4 is right just wanted to post this info

Greetz Rico

Even the casual user should be given more consideration than this - they have still shelled out their hard earned money for a product which they expect to be much better than the one they own and without major flaws.

3 years allows time for a lot of thinking.
Are they getting slipshod or do they just not care?
Tony

It not released YET :)))))

So if ya complain and theres no info availble or release that realy doesnt make sense only thing yamaha did they showed it to us
so lets see if they make it in time to release the software
and then all is solved this is just blowed up

thats the way i look at it

people should just be patience

you can Always complain afterwards

But yamaha also should have said that they where planning this because its important info to know
But now its out so.....


Greetz Rico

I took it as a good joke and I had a good laugh!

I must admit, those musicians who are complaining and are frustrated , to me, have every right to do so. It looks as though Yamaha wants us to invest only on their Premium Packs . There are many third party uvn sample voices on the market. If this is really true, what's the use of them for Tyros-5?? Well, let's wait and see what news tomorrow brings, regarding this issue. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Happy playing, Telmo.

If this is indeed true and stays that way, I must say that Yamaha is playing a dirty game here.I understand they want to sell their expansion packs and that's ok, but not to have a simple thing in this day in 21st century in an instrument that costs $5000 is plain dirty and low.
But hopefully they are not that the case here.

Guys maby you did not read all but the problem is solved because theres software on the way
that allows you to load third party stuf maby look a page back

Greetz Rico

Yamaha is still not saying anything.And with T5, there is too many things still hidden.It makes you wonder why do they hide it.

A similar thing happened when I pre-ordered my Korg Kronos 2+ yrs ago. When the Kronos actually came out to the retailers, Korg was late with the proper editing software, but eventually it became available as a download at their site. In the case of the T5, it isn't even at the retailers yet, so Yamaha still has time to work out if they'll release new Voice Creator for the T5 or, perhaps, say that the T4 VC is compatible with it. Personally, I would rather have my Tyros 5 in hand earlier without the VC, than wait another 3+ months, or whatever, and not be able to actually play it until the VC is available. I know it's not ideal, but we're not forced to buy it if we don't want it the way it is. IMO a new Tyros in the hand is worth 2 VCs in the bush 3-4 months later.

Kronos is a different thing.It has full editor built in so it doesn't really matters if they make pc editor.

Believe me, a lot of people were very very upset about the pc editor being late. The Korg forum was as upset there as about the VC here.

OOoo,,I know that.Imagine if it didn't have it at all.Not even in the keyboard.heheh

Thanks Rico for posting your workaround here.

I have a simple question.Can you mix drums and samples from expansions with onboard styles??Drum kits,,,,????

M, I find that too hard to believe that they would take it out or leave it out. It doesn't make sense. I guess I'm having faith that they'll have it in. If not, I'll be just as upset as you.

Hal,I agree with you.But,then again you never know.heheh
Next thing would be to to start taking keys out..Maybe only black keys,or only white keys.Or miss few keys here and there..hehehe

My last Yamaha arranger was 9000pro..And that was a great keyboard.Back then it had separate outs,sampler,2 plg ex.I had VL150,DX and AN.That was still in the day when Yamaha was inventive and musical.
And 9000pro had the best keyboard action.It did weight a ton,but what does a kid know how much a ton weights.

You know, guys, there must be a couple thousand custom voices for Yamaha arranger keyboards available at absolutely no charge. Some are really good, I've made a half dozen or so, and they've been downloaded thousands of time. So, even if the onboard sound creator program wasn't there, does it really make it a deal breaker? C'mon. If the sound creator program was the only reason you would shell out more than 4-grand for a keyboard I would find better ways to spend my money. Nice feature - yep, deal breaker - not a prayer.

Good luck,

Gary

In a instrument that's 4000 and up it's onlu logical to have it.It was inventet a long time ago.
What's gonna be next??No styles or no sound at all.Do we have to learn to whistle ??

That's why I ordered the 76 version for insurance, in case they leave out a few keys.

Hi Mirza,

Thank you my friend,

To anwser your question its yes you can,
and you can use that in midi also
thats T4
no problem what so ever and its verry nice
so that wil count also for T5
i dont see a problem with that

Have nice weekend
Greetz Rico

Hi Rico,

see PM

JOhn

Why not include it onboard so sounds can be completely edited in the unit instead of just editing effects onboard? No need for peripheral equipment.

I got to thinking that the S-950 doesn't have the onboard voice creator program and I was right. That program no longer exists in the S950. However, and I suspect this will be the same in the T5. When you select any voice, lets say Grand Piano, and you are on the page of pianos, at the bottom of the display you'll see Voice Set, which actually stands for voice settings. Press the #6 button, and you are into a great program for changing every parameter of that selected voice, then have the option to save your settings to the Expansion/User area for voices. So the program did not go away, it's just in a different location and has all the same options.

Cheers,

Gary

That sounds good. Are you satisfied with the range of settings that you can alter?

Gary, Voice Creator in the context of Tyros is completely different from Voice Set. It includes PC software for editing voices at element level and features onboard Tyros for importing new wave files and building voices with them. Whether the latter aspect will continue to be on board with Tyros5 (as opposed to being in software) remains to be seen.
The MOTL PSR's would not to my knowledge ever have had this Voice Creator.
John

As John has said above, Hal, Voice Creator and Voice Set are two different birds.

However, I personally have never used Voice Creator, and have relied on Voice Set for any edits I needed.

Most times, you only need to change attack time, release time, decay, Filter (Harmonics), Brightness, and Voice Set does that admirably.

The Tyros4 also came with a Voice Editing CD ROM, but I have yet to use it. It enables you to edit the Tyros4 Voices on your computer and create your original sounds.

I didn't see this CD ROM in Tyros5's specs, but maybe it has yet to be finished?

That is not to say Voice Creator isn't important, as it is a must have for some users, but, since I'm more of a switch on and play (with a fair bit of style editing) kind of player, it has never been needed.

Ian

Thank you Ian for clarifying as I'm not yet familiar with the Tyros system. I'll keep my fingers crossed that a pc editor will be made available, even if after the KB comes out. However, in my case it's not a deal breaker because the available T5(and T4)sounds I heard are already a major reason why I chose to order it as is as an entry into Yamaha sounds. So, if I take these sounds that I already like and just tweak them on the most typical parameters via the onboard settings, I'm sure I can find a good sound palette for my needs. On the hand, if this is a player's only keyboard and they want to do deep sound design, I understand how the lack of a pc editor could be an issue.

The voice set, when used in conjunction with the mixing console, can do everything the onboard Voice Creator program of the past did, and then some.

Lets be realistic. Only a tiny fraction of arranger keyboard users would ever take the time to delve into Voice Creator and create their own, custom voices. In fact, I only know of one user other than myself on two forums that has actually done this.

That said, it's a great feature, and I'm amazed that so few individuals have actually taken the time to modify/create their own, custom voices. Doing so can make a huge difference in the way right-hand leads are played and sound.

Cheers,

Gary

Has Yamaha ever produced an instructional video DVD on using
"Voice Creator" Beginner or Advanced? It would surly get players involved and teach them how to use the feature effectively in their music don't you think?

Not that I know of Donny, but if I recall correctly, there are lessons on the PSR-Tutorial site that provide step by step instructions. Additionally, if you access the online reference manual, the very first chapter provides a wealth of information on adjusting and saving voices. Reference Manual S-950

Gary

Gary,

With all due respect (and I mean that), you do not understand the power of the Tyros series over the PSR series. Voice Creator is the main feature that I and many others (not to mention the entire Asian, Arabic, African, Western European markets and every ethnic musician) relies on.

If you do not use Voice Creator (which IS NOT Voice Set), than I really can't think of ANY reason ANY person would spend the extra few thousand dollars when they could get an S950 that does almost everything else the Tyros can do.

There are limitless capabilities that people such as myself have been doing since the Tyros 2 - that are no longer possible on the actual keyboard in the Tyros 5. We're talking custom voices, Audio multipads (Yes, I've been using hundreds of Audio Multipads all the way since the T2), DJ loops, custom drum kits, and more.

Really, the people who are defending Yamaha on this think that everybody uses the Tyros as plug and play. If you want plug and play you don't need more than the S950.

Please don't make blanket statements that "The Voice Set when used in conjunction with the mixing console, can do everything the onboard Voice Creator program of the past did, and then some" which is utter Bullshit. Utter. Bull. Shit. They have NOTHING in common!! (People, that was a word for word quote!) And that only one other person besides yourself uses it, which again is more of the same. Anybody who does anything other than USA or Western music is heavily using the Voice Creator function.

I really feel that anybody who spreads falsehoods (even inadvertently such as yourself), is harming the wider community, because Yamaha has the habit of denying problems exist. When I reported the 4 bugs in the Tyros 4, Yamaha consistently denied they were problems until my YouTube videos about them got over 100,000 (!!) hits. And then suddenly - after months of denials - they called me for more info and released two updates to fix them.

Let's not let that happen again.

Chony, I've never used the Voice Creator on any keyboard other than the PSR series. And, while I have played many ethnic songs, I've never felt the need to create ethnic voices other than make modifications to those that came with the keyboard. I realize that you travel the country doing ethnic events, and for someone in your shoes, it may be somewhat of a necessity, but for the vast majority of performers, that's obviously not the case. So, for the most part, the onboard voice settings program in conjunction with the Mixing Console seems to be more than adequate. And yes, the S-950 is all that I, personally, really need for my performances.

Hopefully, for those individuals in your situation, Yamaha provides a great software alternative that will suit your needs.

Good Luck,

Gary

Thanks Gary,

You're probably not aware of now the Tyros is used outside of the western world. Put it this way: until Yamaha released the Chinese, Balkan, Latin, Turkish and middle eastern packs, do you think musicians of that genre hadnt found solutions? Trust me they did, and better ones than Yamaha itself. The Yamaha expansion packs don't come close to my Jewish and middle eastern collections.

When you say most people don't use the voice creator, you need to know there is an entire world that exists outside if the USA and Wesfern Europe of talented and professional artists who do things with their keyboards that would blow the minds of "plug and play" users.

I hope to post some demonstration videos to help people understand that.

Thanks Chony - I'm looking forward to seeing the vids. I've only seen a couple that you have done and I really enjoyed them.

Gary