What Korg has to do to get me back ...

I need the ability to feed audio signals INTO the Korg's internal speakers, at the same time as the processed mic WITH harmonizer. The new PA900 has an input that shuts off the ability to feed IN when you dedicate the input to a mic. This takes it out of the running for me, cuz I need to hear my iPad and/or guitar through the speakers.
Anyone in high places listening? Please go back to the way your PA80 worked, and give me that great TC harmonizer AS WELL as an aux in for the signal of my choosing!

I want one, but I can't use it unless I can get 2 signals at one, and not give up the harmonizer.
OK, get busy - these things are shipping to the US pretty soon!

And I am sure Korg are hanging on your every word

Good luck with that though - they could create your own UD signature model Korg surely have been waiting for just this chance to get you as a featured artist

If they REALLY knew what they were doing, they WOULD !!!

Hi Dave

Perhaps a consideration would be a Pa600 and a Voicelive Touch 2. Feed the VLT 2 output into the Pa600.

The VLT2 also works out the harmony from either the Guitar the Aux input or the Midi signal from the Pa600 without changing any settings and is far more flexible than the on board VH in any of Korg's keyboards, plus guitar effects as a bonus.

The set up is also a lot cheaper. The UK price for the Pa600 was £800 plus £440 for the VLT2 against £1900 for the Pa900.

I was going to change my Pa600 and my VLT 1 for the Pa900 but was disappointed that the VH in the Pa900 was the old version not the one from the Pa3x so I opted for above set up, a few more cables but it works very well.

Regards

Col

Col,
That's a useable scenario ... much like what I was using with my s-950 and Voicevive PlayGTX. I want to NOT carry a separate harmonizer. I want fast, neat, small, light and awesome.
Is that too much? (and thanx for the nod, Tony!)
I've had issues with compatibility with the Yamaha and outboard TC products .... I think there is rogue information pumping into the TC and forces lock-ups every now and then. I tried the Harmony-M (that got rave reviews from many zoners), but as a RH, follow my chords unit - it behaves very poorly. It only works well in chord mode, triggered from the arranger, and that's not the way I use it best. I need to send it my right hand info ... the search continues!

All jokes aside now - Dave did you set your upper part to either both, or EXT in driving the Harmony M?

I never had any issues with one when I had my Korgs - it worked fine. I used it for the same reason as you.. I was doing a similar thing in using audio in from a laptop and then an iPad.

Also ensure the Harm M has had the firmware upgrade - it does a few things, not the least of which is the chord recognition time is reduced by around 60%. Although it IS a complicated procedure so not many do it.

I kept my Harm M as it frees up totally what keyboard/software I want to use. No relying on the keyboard harmoniser.

Dennis

How about a PA3x?

PA3x? I sold them both .... can't get used to having no speakers. It's my Achilles heel. I'll play a keyaction that I admittedly hate, rather than one I love, and have to deal with a silent slab. Go figure. Dennis - I'm going to give the H-M one more try ... I had the RH set to just "UPPER" for midi transmit, filtered all CC's, and SysEx, turned off all things that could confuse it ... just never responded right to full chords - it seems fine with the arranger trigger though. A puzzlement.

... and RED hair...



I report, YOU decide !!! ...

UD, what midi transmit did you have the upper set to, and want was the receive channel on the Harm-M? Also you must set the upper sections to "both" under style play Track Controls. Factory default is internal only.

If you are not getting the correct harmony on the M, it is getting no midi note data (as determined by the tiny flashing LED next to the input knob).

My guess is the PA was not set to be transmitting there are two places it needs to be set, the Track Controls as above and in the Global section.

Further it needs to be set for BOTH style mode, and for song mode. As each mode can have a different method. EG for style you may have the upper to external and in song mode have it set to internal.

What I used to do was actually drive the Harm M from Upper 3, with no PA sound patch and the volume at 0. As the Harm M also responds to patch changes, you can also set (via MSB/LSB and Patch #) this as the Upper 3 patch so that when the song/style is loaded it sends the patch set for upper 3 to the Harm M (assuming it is saved to the STS of course, and uppper 3 is set to either external or both. I just had it set to external.

Dennis

PS: I suspect even more that one of the two section setups has not been done correctly if the Harm M responds well from the arranger section, which by OS default is set to transmit. The Harm M by default is set to receive on channel 1, however it can bet set to any channel.

That is another thing to check - the receiving channel on the Harm M (IIRC, the M does not have Midi OMNI Rx mode) as it may have inadvertently been set to something other than the channel (I assume you are using Upper 1?) assigned to upper 1, which means it is getting note data, just not the correct data

Not that I don't believe that, but is there a documented prove that the harmonizer is the old generation?
For sure it's not the full flagged vocalist that pa3x has, but Pa900 could very well be a simpler version, less voices, less effects, but still same quality.
Is there a solid argument against this possibility other than assumtion?

For the PSR-S950 and all other Yamaha keyboards, the keyboard's MIDI must be set to "KBD & Style" which is accessed via Function/MIDI. This allows the Harmony-M to recognize all chords played on the keyboard. Now, if UD is not using the lower (style) to trigger the Harmony-M, then in the Mic setting section, the Vocal Harmony control under the KBD column must be set to Upper in order to send the correct MIDI information to the Harmony-M. If I recall correctly, UD always triggers his vocal harmonies with his right hand chording.

Cheers,

Gary

Check the manual for both keyboards, the VH in the Pa900 is exactly the same as the Pa800/Pa2x.

Regards

Col

What Korg has to do to get me back

Who says Korg wanted you back Dave ?

regards,
John [i][/i]

Oh, they want me John ... they need me.

And yes, Tony - RED hair is a must these days. The only brunette who doesn't need to change for me is Mila Kunis. She can stay dark and mysterious.

Dennis - I'll take another look at the insides and double check my checks, thanx! The Yamaha may work a bit different from the Korg, and you speak as if you think I'm still using the Korg. Not so ... I'm all s-950 until something better comes along. I'm hoping that I find a way to pump extra audio into the PA900 when that hits the streets near me, but so far that hope is fading with no documentation to support my wishes.

Sigh ...

...on the bright side though UD, there is a very slight chance that in three months'time there will be JS2013 Resources for the PA900

regards,
John

Well I have the S950 and am thinking seriously of going for the PA900. I think the PA900 is what the S950 should have been and Korg is going to eat Yamahas lunch if they keep the price right.

If the new Tyros replacement has the same touch screen and OS as seen on the CVP600 series it will be dead in the water.

Yeah I know, it is all about the sound.

Bill G

Ahh cool UD, you are correct, I thought you still had the Korg. No probs
Dennis

Conclusion:
Yamaha PSR s-950 is INCOMPATIBLE with TC Harmony-M "IF" you plan to trigger the harmonies from the right hand chords in real time. There are issues with the sustain pedal operation, as well as a Yamaha "weirdness" that does not play well with the TC in this mode. For simple, arranger play .... it's OK, but I require a more unique approach.
PA-900 ... you're looking better all the time to me.

One thing I just thought of Dave, did you try the Harm M in manual mode?

Yup - it still has that weird sustain deal going on. Manual mode it too tricky unless you can transpose the affected notes to suit the song. I use it on the s-950 sometimes .... it's a acceptable workaround for now, but it's not where I need to be. PA900 should be out in early Fall (I hope), so I'll experiment with other options around the audio input scenario - the vocals are number one priority in my world, the rest is gravy.

Well, apparently, all Korg needed to do was put speakers and a TC harmonizer in the unit and they got me!
I've had the PA900 on the stand for about an hour and I'm trying to get to it as much as I can, but we're also trying to entertain 8 1st graders at a pool party in what looks like a crappy, rainy dy! Grrrrrr .... Sigh.

First impressions:
key feel - excellent
look - a tad cluttered, but easy to adjust to (the 3x is just so perfectly laid out)
speakers - not as powerful (at least so far) as the Yamaha, but I think with EQ and balancing it may improve. Seems quiet at first
tones: AWESOME
features: almost nothing is missing - the 3x sliders are easy enough to use in the touch screen, great C/S, lyric display, CD-G file readout etc
screen: seems easier and more responsive with less pressure than the 3x - like it
size/weight - BEAUTIFUL - sleek, attractive (still wish it was black, but the silver is cool)
mic - it's not the crystal clear high end sound that the 3x has, but that may just be the speakers settings (comp, eq, etc) ... I'll hook up to PA later today

Overall - I think it's a winner. The basic design is very familiar, and it will go on it's maiden voyage to the Jersey Shore this Monday. I'll have LOTS to tell on Wednesday when I return!

Stay tuned ..........

Dave,

I should have mine Tuesday, but I will be happy to see your review after several days of use.

Some demos too by you if you will please.

Thanks, Dave, disappointing to hear that about the speakers, I was hoping for better.

I'm not jumping to conclusions yet because there are such deep menu choices to make edits. It may well be possible to turn off or adjust the gates and compressors and master EQ to get a cleaner signal. As of right now - as soon as I play a note on the kb, the mix takes the signal in and I hear the gate open .... annoying, but maybe fixable.

Dave, have you installed the OS release 1.01? there were some bug fixes in that apparently.

Graham ... I still have to do that - it's too sunny out today ... need some pool time with my redhead!

If "the redhead" is a loved one, congratulations on your priorities!

She's been a treasure since the 6th grade - we just started getting closer about 6 months ago. Priorities are in order!

Forget the redhead...tell us about the Korg

Hey I am looking for a toy to play with a day or two...which one you taking to the Crab Trap...I can babysit the other

Dave, Don't let Fran babysit your Yamaha - it will morph into some kind of Roland, or something else. He may tell you it's the same keyboard you left with him, but be careful - Remember, it's Fran!

Gary

Is that the same one you got close to before?

A long time friend..

Here is the real redhead to Dave's left..

Man ... no secrets around this joint! Yes, that's my Suzy-Q ... been a great friend since 1965, and now ... it's more.

So - Fran - no way you get to trash my Yamaha - you already know you hate it. You'll play it for 5 minutes and remember why you don't own one. As for the Korg - I need to put it on stage for the next 2 days to see if I can overcome its shortcomings. I'm really surprised that the vocal processor is such a different unit than it's predecessors. We're spoiled now - can't go backwards. I hate to say it, but even the straight sound with no harmony is not all that great. The speakers might be the issue - we'll see after a night on stage.

I have my finger on the trigger to order a TC VLTouch2 if these next 2 days go badly. I seriously WANT to like this keyboard. I do. But it's not easy so far. As a singer, I might not be able to use it at work, but it's pretty cool on top of my Rhodes at home .... time will tell.

love the Eagles Can... ;-) just a few more weeks !!

950 upon return from Fran to Dave...introducing the Rolaha...

*** Small glimmer of sonic light at the end of my tunnel - I ruled out the speakers, because I put a small mixer into the system in the direct (dry) inputs and the signal was fine.

That means that the issue is the vocal processing unit, itself. This is NOT good news, but may provide a workaround. There is a dynamics processor in the mic chain that is far too noisy to be useable at this time. I need to be fair and play with levels, and different mics before I write the obit, but from the hours of tests I've run so far - I believe that this is the enemy area. When I turn off the dynamics processor (compressor/gate) the signal is too weak to get a proper blend, as soon as I turn it to an effective level ... there's the noise. This is the most sensitive of all built-in vocal processors I ever used. As soon as I push a key on the instrument - the gate opens up and the hiss is back ... even before I sing a note.

I know how tricky compressors and gates can be, but I'm very tech savvy, and have used these devices for years and years, so I'm bold enough to say, this is NOT user error.

Any other 900 owners feel this way? Am I alone in this quest for quiet, solid, beautiful vocal sound from a built-in unit? Help me Obi Wans ... you're my only hope.
In three hours, I'll be on the job with this hissy beast, so look for reviews after midnight EST US.

Get ready, Donny, 'cause that's where they will be - "IN THE CAN"!!!

Dave, the PA3x harmonizer and vocal processor is really good. I'm surprised it's not the same one.
DonM

does sweetwater have a 30 day return policy in effect?..

Wow, it's hard to believe that Korg has put out a product with that problem. The mic input sounds unusable. I don't get mine until tomorrow, and will let you know how I get on.

Try posting the problem on the Korg Pa900 forum site, I know Paolo Trammonini from Korg Italy reads those posts.

Hey Uncle Dave......
I just got my 900 in and I'm inputing a mic into left audio in and my iphone using a stereo 1/4" cable into the right audio in and both are working fine. My mic still works with the vocal harmony and effects through both speakers and my iphone is playing at normal volume levels through both speakers. Am I missing something here? It allow for both to be used at the same time.

I think the speakers sound awsome! In fact, I thought I was going through my Yamaha Stagepas400i and I was only using the built in speakers!

The 900 sounds much better with my Shure beta58 than it does with my EV 767a. Go figure. Making improvements - ill post some samples later tonight.