Crown CM311 Mic on Stupid Deal/Musiciansfriend

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?icid=200510

A great stage mic for a keyboardist because you can turn your head left, right, up, down and still sound excellent.

I saw that also. I've tried to like headset mics, but maybe I'm too old to change my ways!
Maybe I'll trade Gary something for his extra.
DonM

You can't work a headset microphone.. That's why I've always avoided them. You can get a wide variety of tones from your voice by moving in close and going soft, or moving back and going hard, and all shades in between.

But that headset mike is going to be at the same distance all the way through the song, unless you are messing with it.

Plus, how do you deal with a cough while you are playing? Or an aside to a customer?

I never liked singing with headset mics for all the reasons above....plus I dont like the way it looks & feels on stage...

Well sports fans, you can work a headset mic - it's called voice control. No, you cannot pull away the mic when screaming out those high notes that are above your vocal range, something I see done all the time. And, I would love to hear someone explain how moving a mic closer or farther away physically changes the tone or frequency of the sound entering the mic. Either you CAN use a headset mic - or you CANNOT! I have 3 Crown CM-311A mics and the vocal reproduction quality is superb. For a number of reasons stated many times in the past, I would never go back to a handheld mic.

For a cough or conversation with a customer, there's a mute switch on the belt pack - all you have to do is push it. Or, because the mic has an extremely short range, you can just reach up and move it a couple inches from your mouth and no one will hear you cough or speak.

Cheers,

Gary

You can always use compressor to tame those highs.

Well the tone does physically change because of the proximity effect. Getting closer to the mic boosts the low end frequencies. The spec sheets that come with most mics show this effect.
Some higher notes require more energy, even though they are not above the vocal range. Actually there are many times when lower notes require a little more volume for the situation, so backing off the mic helps there also.
The Crown mic does have some built-in compression. I tried it, but it wasn't comfortable for me.
DonM

This...

Plus, you are playing, and a cough comes on. What do you stop doing to move the mike - the chords, or the melody? LOL

Me, I just keep playing and move my head off the mike.

I saw a cool little box called a "cough drop" (I think) that was a momentary OFF button for the signal. Great idea, but I'm not a candidate either - I'm too mic intensive with that proximity effect, and I never liked the aerobics instructor look. The teeny-weeny ones we use for our actors on stage are very unobtrusive, but they're all omni-directional and would be terrible in my stage setting.

No headset mic for me, either, for all of the reasons given above. Hey UD, just imagine a four-part harmony cough! LOL!

hahahaha

aerobics instructor he he ha ha

Also it has a very drive through fast food look... " may I take your order?" "would you like to super size...

I think I may have coughed during a performance back in 65, or was it 69 - can't remember. As for the effects, well if I need to I just sing softer, or louder, whatever is required. Like I said, it's called vocal control. You think Garth Broods, Nugent, Madonna, Sher, Jimmy Buffett, and a huge number of other top performers are all wrong? They enjoy the freedom while playing an instrument that a headset mic permits, and I do too. Come to think of it, I have a photo somewhere of Willie Nelson wearing a headset mic. Maybe it's something relegated to folks that play more country than pop.

Good Luck,

Gary

Gary I am NOT going to try to compare a headset mic to a mic on a stand because I've never tried a headset but there is one thing that you do not mention when talking about the Pro stars in your reply ... they all have sound engineers who are adjusting tones and volumes while they are singing... I do not think many of us have that luxury...

and yes, voice control is needed with a microphone on a stand as well ...

When you come down heah to the sunny south I'll let you try mine out - who knows, you might like it.

Gary

I love my headset! Sometimes during the show I have to check if my underarm deodorant is working, and if I had to take my mouth away from the microphone, it would be so unprofessional.

Look at any pro singer using a normal mike... In and out like crazy!

You have to have quite a good compressor to be able to use your full voice range if the mike is planted an inch away from your mouth. Sure, you can learn to restrict what you can, and control it yourself. But you aren't using your FULL voice if you do. It's like deciding to never play ff or pp, and just play mp to mf. You COULD do it, but why would you WANT to? LOL

So, Diki, are You saying Garth Broods, Nugent, Madonna, Sher, Jimmy Buffett, and a huge number of other top performers don't use their full vocal voices? Gee, I wonder why they're so popular, then?

That's a pretty good touche. I found my vocal technique changed for the better when I started using the headset. On the other hand, I have seen some great singers whose voices I would die for bring their hand held mic back for those high notes.

I guess the headset isn't for everyone, but given all of the buttons, keys, and knobs that us arranger keyboardists have to deal with, it does offer the distinct advantage (or crutch) of always being by your mouth.

Well there may be a thousand who use conventional mics for every one who uses a head set. And the stars DO have super high-end gear tailored for their needs, and sound people riding the controls if necessary.
Can you imagine Elvis with a headset?
However, as always, use the gear that best suits your own needs!
DonM

Did they have headset mics when Elvis was alive?

Gary

I happen to agree with Diki and DonM...

Singers with a strong voice and a wide range would want nothing to do with a fixed mic (headset included)..They know the dynamics of their voice and know how to anticipate the increased volume..also the changing of the tone via mic placement...Two things you can't do with a headset..

Maybe a mono tone singer like Garth or Jimmy can live with it..but real strong vocalist...no way..

And you think Elvis would want to block his smirk?

And the forementioned use lots of gimmicky effects to cover up..

When Garth, Madonna and other big stars go out with a headset mike, they have something none of us have... A world class soundman riding shotgun on the fader, and a bank of world class outboard compressors, de-essers and pre's in line.

Watch their technique when they use a REAL mike. They work it just like the rest of us.

The reason THEY use headset mikes has NOTHING to do with whether they are better than a regular mike or not. It is because they work on huge stages, need to move around a lot, dance, and/or play a guitar. So their hands are either already full, or it's impossible to do their act holding a mike.

They don't sit in one spot all set long!

I guess the operative word on Gary's post is ENTERTAINER. I didn't see an outstanding singer on the list.

You wouldn't catch world-class singers like Nat King Cole, Mariah Carey (she does wear a wireless when she shakes her a** and lip synchs), Ella, Sarah Vaughan, Billy Eckstine, Joe Williams...even relative lightweights but talented vocalists like Johnnie Mathis, Frank, Tom Jones, Englebert, Harry Connick and many others perform live without being able to use the dynamic characteristics of a microphone.

And, man, are they a joy to watch as they change angle, distance, move off-center, etc., making every song their own.

Entertainers are one thing...real singers; entirely, something else and a pure joy to watch/listen to.

Can you imagine Mason singing and dancing with a headset?

Wait just a minute!!!! I'd pay real money to see that! (LOL)!


Russ

Russ, most of the wonderful singers you happen to have mentioned were mostly dead before headset mics were invented for anyone other than telephone operators. And, I loved those voices, too. However, you are now talking about individuals that really didn't need a mic at all to sing - they had incredible vocal control, and I sincerely believe a lot of that came naturally. Personally, I think Elvis probably had one of the best singing voices ever. I thought it was much smoother and cleaner than Sinatra's, but I loved those wonderful tones produced by Mel Torme even more than Elvis or Sinatra. And for fantastic country vocals, I thought Marty Robbins was right at the top of the list. But, what the Hell do I know.

In my case, I had to work damned hard at vocal control, and my first experience at this was as a radio newscaster on WHRF Radio in Bel Air, MD, then WCAO, and finally, doing voice-overs for WBAL in Baltimore. No pull away effects, no one riding a board, just voice control. Like said, a headset mic is not for everyone, Neither is a handheld!

Cheers,

Gary

Gary, we finally are in agreement

Gary, you are right...most of the singers I mentioned were gone before quality headset mics were available.

I particularly agree about Mel Torme...backed him on nylon guitar once on a TV apprarance; then went to the desert to ride dual sport Yamaha's...one of his passions.

However, I can't see ANY of the people I mentioned EVER voluntarily using a headset mic, IF the primary task was excellent vocalizing.

Playing a keyboard like an arranger, with all the controls
makes the freedom of having both hands free a real attractive
option.

You're right. It is a personal choice.

It's not for me, and I just finished 48 hours in the studio, doing voice-overs and singing on projects for an international automobile manufacturer.

I don't enjoy singing at all, but a good 1/4th of my music income comes from vocal work; some for clients, including Lens Crafters, Sealtest Milk and others.

I've seen some of your performances and you handle the headset very well for the material you do and the audiences you play for.

Different strokes, for sure.


Be well,


Russ

P.S. You are right about Marty Robbins, too. Really enjoyed the quality of his voice in the late 50's, when I really started identifying excellence in music.

But, ELVIS? YUCK! He's in my Jimmy buffet category...don't even ask!(that's not something diners or jazz folks would want, anyway, thank goodness!).

Russ, once again, is it the singer or the song? Ton of great Elvis songs... but you don't have to do them anything LIKE Elvis!

You maybe need to step back from your distaste of certain singers, and try to listen to strictly the song. Many great musicians do... and the result is great performances of songs that perhaps you wouldn't have thought twice about doing. Rearrange it, twist it inside and out, reversion it, make it YOURS, not Elvis's, or Buffett's, and you end up pleasing not only yourself, but most of the people that bug you to do an Elvis tune, or some Jimmy! You'll get the odd one who wants it just like Elvis, but most will give you a lot of leeway. And, let's face it, if you do Bird, or Monk, do you try to do them JUST like the original?

I doubt it.

Chase the song, not the singer...

There is the issue of feedback with the headsets as they are omnidirectional. couldn't use them with the accordion- needed a super cardoid mic (Sennheiser 945) that didn't interfere with the condensor mics in the instrument. Same problem can occur with near field monitors. Or hot stage monitors. I usually mute the on board keyboard speakers after having trouble with feedback there too.

As far as singers, watch Tony Bennett (now or then) with a mic. Until recently, he could fill a theatre with his voice without a mic at all!

Sparky, feedback has never been a problem with the Crown CM-311A. It's a cardiod mic with a very short vocal proximity range. Take a look at http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/mics/102546.pdf

Gary

For what it's worth, I'm with Gary.

I have used a dozen or more handheld mics, and the super cardoids have worked well as far as expression and feedback suppression is concerned. However, when I have a lot of moving to do, I grab my Sennheiser wireless. There is no feedback and the voice quality is exceptional.

Like Gary said, you have to get used to it, but the fact that I never have to run to the mic is worth the supposed lack of expression. Maybe I'm not expressive, but I doubt it..

Bernie

That's the thing about keyboard players... other than keytar users, you are static. How many of us move around a lot while we play? I've never seen a picture of you, for instance, doing anything but sitting behind your arranger.

And Gary, sorry, but you really ought to add this caveat to your blanket recommendation of headset mikes - IF you have a trained, experienced, broadcast quality voice with a lifetime of training for evenness, then headsets mikes MIGHT be the best thing for you.

But let's get real, here. How many, on this forum, do you think have one of those..?

Recommending a headset mike to singers trained and experienced on normal mikes, with singing voices of average ability and technique is like handing an F1 car to the average driver... a recipe for disaster!

Diki, Most of the folks that I've recommended headset mics to seem to have nothing but glowing reports about when comes out of their speakers. Now, as I've said dozens of times, they're not for everyone.

When I'm sitting behind the keyboard, I'm constantly moving my head while singing. I'm looking left, right, glancing at registrations, glancing at the PC with chord changes and lyrics, I'm able to stand when I need to, or sit down, all without worrying about where the hell the mic is in relation to my mouth. I don't have to worry about banging into the mic boom, either. (Oh how many times have I seen that happen!)

Something else just occurred to me, something that every that ever used a vocal harmonizer can confirm. In order to obtain optimum vocal harmonies from either the onboard or stand-alone vocal harmonizer, you DEFINITELY need voice/vocal control. Without it, those vocal harmonies sound like crap!

Cheers,

Gary

Diki, one of the very few good things about getting old is, I can be as obnoxious as possible and no one can do a damn thing about it(LOL)!

Don't like tunes associated with Bill Anderson (whispering Bill), Elvis, Jimmy Buffet and a few others. Not going to even try to make anything of them.

I'm known for a certain style and class of material. Live, I ONLY play white tablecloth restaurants, government and corporate functions, the Philharmonic and two country clubs.

The people who hire me are expecting what I do. Most other players don't/can't do the same material. I work as much as I want to, with several "cherry" jobs open whenever I get bored.

I'll leave Buffet, Elvis, Anderson and the like to the pack.


Russ

PS-I DO AGREE with you that, if I was not so set in my ways, I could arrange palatable versions of some of the material I'm not crazy about. And, if I were a generalist, I'd choose to to some of the material of the "terrible Trio". That's what the club owner and audience would expect.

I have a sennheiser and a shure in a box I may drag out. Interesting that the Crown is a cardoid. I have one of those tan thin ones, but it doesn't pick up well. Anyone use the countryman? They are supposed to be the best thin ones, but they are pricey..

I tried three models of the Countryman E6 series and they all were horrible. Feedback was off the charts, the sound was quite thin, and there just didn't seem to be any adjustment that provided the same, robust sounds I get from the Crown CM-311A. I was fortunate with the
Countryman mics in that I borrowed 2 from a friend and had no problems returning them to him. The third one, which I purchased from a retailer, however, was a problem. I informed them up front that if the mic did not provide the sound quality without feedback, then it would be returned for a full refund, not including shipping. That agreement was made over the telephone with a salesperson that said he would note that on the invoice. NOT! When I tried to return it they said state law prohibited them from accepting mics for returns. I said OK, but here's the deal. Your salesperson made a deal with me for returning the mic. If you don't live up to that agreement, I'm calling my credit card company and telling them not to pay the bill, and to knowledge, there is no such law on the books, state or federal. They agreed to give me a full refund.

Gary

Well, Russ, you can always lie to them! Play an obscure simple jazz tune, tell them it's based on a Jimmy Buffett tune off of a bootleg, what do they know!