Roland, We Are Back

Posted by: abacus

Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 09:04 AM

Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 09:35 AM

BK9 on the way at Music Messe....good play by Roland to wait after namm and xmas so they will be alone in their release which in turn shines the spotlight on this new TOTL 76 key? version with more features.....G70 who? cool2
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 09:39 AM

Call me stupid, but I was REALLY expecting a DEMO video ... frown
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
Call me stupid, but I was REALLY expecting a DEMO video ... frown


"In due time grasshopper"...........
Posted by: hammer

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 10:17 AM

Me to Tony.
Deane
Posted by: leezone

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 10:56 AM

arranger or workstation?
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 11:01 AM

Originally Posted By: leezone
arranger or workstation?


"BK" 9 = backing Keyboard cool2
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 04:22 PM

BK-5 with 76 keys and some sliders...

Maybe Roland can reintroduce some of the great features lost in the transition from G70 to the BK series, but I have my doubts.

This is barely what you could call TOTL... MOTL is where it probably sits, at best. Not that there IS a TOTL Roland any more, and this won't be it. Even the keybed is the MOTL one.

G70 is still the zenith of Roland arranger quality...
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 04:23 PM

Did you get my PM btw Diki?

D
Posted by: TedS

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 05:48 PM

Diki and Dennis (miden),
Why do you think the keybed is the same as the one on BK-5? In the video the keys appear longer and differently shaped. Also, the video teases that there will be some kind of on-board Vocal Harmony. Something Fran reported at roland-arranger.com suggests that there will be provisions for score display. From the BK-7m you have to figure on FC-7 input, as well as the ability to turn on & off UP1 and UP2 voices, Manual Bass. Plus the mastering tools from BK series that were never present on G-70. The BK-5 has a fully-featured rhythm composer (on-board style creation) and Makeup Tools. The menu parameters are pretty deep. What's left from the G-70 that this lacks?
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 05:57 PM

Videos are prepared, airbrushed and angled to present the best possible perception to the end viewer. That is all I will say. The other things you mentioned are already on the BK5 wink...hence this one, by the look of things, and going by the way Roland have released over the past few years....well, it is a pretty safe bet to say it is a bk5 with 76 keys and a couple of other things.

I would suggest that the keybed will not match the G70 ( which by the way is the same one used on the A-70 Controller wink )
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/20/13 07:22 PM

Score display is a relatively useless feature (it doesn't display very good charts)... .PDF display is FAR more useful. The BK-5 has a rudimentary picture display capability (jpeg only), but the OS can't link pictures to Performances. Plus no page turning, anything like that. It was designed more as a way to display pretty pictures while you play, which simply goes to show how completely out of touch Roland have become with what PLAYERS actually need...

The BK-7m, because of the remote module nature of it, is DESIGNED to be pretty hands-off... hence much of the control goes to an FC-7. But the BK-5 has no problems selecting UPR 1&2 parts... (to be on a par with the G70, it would need a Man Bass, 2 LWR parts and 3 UPR parts... something I doubt it will have).

The BK-5's Mastering Tools look identical to the G70's... It doesn't even have the separate Mastering Tools section for SMF/Style side and Keyboard Parts, which the E80 had.

For the BK-9 to have a significant improvement over the BK-5, it needs a MIDI Recorder and sequencer (currently, there is NO provision for any onboard MIDI recording on any of the BK series), and it needs a TON more buttons. My G70 has 133 buttons, 9 sliders, 7 knobs. The BK-5 has 46 buttons, and one knob. That's a LOT of important functions buried in menus.

The return of the Mark/Jump SMF feature will be important (missing from current BK's), a D-Beam will be needed, and multiple out's (4 for the arranger, and two more for the VH and effects) for it to compare to the G70. And sorry, but unless the screens are touch screens, navigation is FAR more complicated than the G/E series.

A full VK organ section, with live drawbars and proper percussion and foldback for the drawbars will be necessary to match the G70, plus at least one SRX slot... (E80 had 2)

And yes, to my eyes, that keybed looks EXACTLY like the BK-5's, only camera angles and perspective might lead you to think otherwise. I expect the keybed from the Juno Stage will be used. A pale shadow of how good the G70's action is.

One of the things that disappoints me is the dropping of the touch screens. No better way to control a huge variety of functions in a limited amount of space exists, and previously managed to employ them (albeit monochromatically, but color touch-screen prices have tumbled lately) and afford to put them in their affordable E50 and E60. Stepping away from touchscreens is a HUGE step backwards, IMO.

As I said, a MOTL. Still no TOTL...

And yes, got the msg, Dennis. Reply is up.
Posted by: Tonewheeldude

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 02:09 AM

What I don't understand is why did they choose one of the worst samples that Roland have in the sound pallet to introduce them 'back'...the plastic organ sound?
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 07:10 AM

In an effort not to be called as James Cagney quote "You dirty rat"...by my inside contact smile

I was told 2 years ago that Roland's next 76 model would most likely be the Juno Stage keybed...
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 08:31 AM

Why not just wait and see....all this rumored speculation means nothing....it wont be long.
Posted by: vangelis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 09:51 AM

I wonder how many times Roland can invent the wheel? same ol
too bad, such a good company reputation.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Why not just wait and see....all this rumored speculation means nothing....it wont be long.


wink
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/21/13 12:01 PM

http://www.rolandconnect.com/
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/23/13 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Why not just wait and see....all this rumored speculation means nothing....it wont be long.


This place would be a much quieter one without all the 'rumored speculation'!
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 09:10 AM

Got to give it to Roland at least for "secrecy" coffee
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 01:36 PM

Guess you forgot about the T4 'unveil'..? rolleyes

computer
Posted by: mirza

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 02:26 PM

I didn't want to open new post.


http://youtu.be/Aq04I2NsBm4
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 03:18 PM

OK... some Super Natural sounds from the Super Jupiter?

The plot thickens. Roland are doing SA voices. Who knows? Maybe one day they'll wake up and realize that Multipads are a good idea, and (shock, horror!) that the CS is pretty useful too!
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 03:22 PM

Posted by: trident

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 05:43 PM

He murdered "Careless Whisper". BTW the style he used exists on the G70, seems unchanged.
Sounds like Dutch, if I'm right maybe John Smies can help us to translate what he says...
Posted by: FransN

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/24/13 07:13 PM

He said:

Hundreds of new styles, a dual display, drawbars, 1700 sounds including super natural sounds, and this is the new super natural Jazz Guitar. Further in the video he tells about the super natural sounds and show how they work by using the pitch bender, assignable switches and the keys.

Very interesting arranger.
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 07:04 AM

Apparently..they only had a flashlight... smile
Posted by: FransN

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 07:35 AM

Yes not very clear image smile
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 07:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Apparently..they only had a flashlight... smile



another piece to the puzzle confused1 ...
if Fran sells his G70 and gets the NEW BK9....I'd be excited.. cool2
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 07:50 AM

That video was removed from YouTube....Roland pressure?
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
That video was removed from YouTube....Roland pressure?


too late it's worldwide now, if they wanted secrecy they shouldn't of demoed it ANYWHERE.. cool2
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 08:03 AM

This is what you will get with the BK9..

A Juno Stage keybed..
Sound bank from the Jupiter50..
VE series vocal processor..
Independent screens from the BK5..


Most likely they will add..a Drawbar organ (VK) with sliders..
Chord sequencer..
16 track sequencer besides the 8 track style composer..

Benefits will be the mic input with effects and harmony..
76 keys with semi weighted keybed..
The great playback ability of the BK series..

This could be the ideal all in one lightweight keyboard..that many desire..and probally under 22 pounds...
Maybe a street price under 2 G's...(well under).

No...it will not be the replacement for the G70...but most likely a stablemate.. wink
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 09:01 AM

Well I disagree Fran, sorry - but I believe that info is not quite correct wink

I cannot say why.
Posted by: Uncle Dave

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 05:27 PM

Roland embarrassment?
smile
Posted by: Brian3331

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/25/13 06:52 PM

Sorry Lads this is no Ketron Audya
Posted by: abacus

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 04:34 AM

It will all depend on price.

If they get this right then it could be a masterstroke.

Bill
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 05:23 AM

Just when I thought I was all set they pull me back in . I WANT ONE !!! (or two)
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 05:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
Just when I thought I was all set they pull me back in . I WANT ONE !!! (or two)


Bill get in line behind Fran.... cool2
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 06:18 AM




ROLAND BK9 Picture
Posted by: Dreamer

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 09:24 AM



A little better
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 11:13 AM

Hi Dreamer, long time no see!...
Posted by: J Strickland

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 11:27 AM

Very Interested...

But why 2 tiny display screens versus 1 larger sized display???
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By: J Strickland
Very Interested...

But why 2 tiny display screens versus 1 larger sized display???


Two modes screens operating at once?
Posted by: Tonewheeldude

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 12:37 PM

The right hand screen looks like it has a music score displaying?
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 12:41 PM

Yes I agree. The screens are more of a novelty at that size - much the same as the mouse/keyboard (qwerty) input on the G series Fantom...

They would have been FAR better served by including the G Series huge colour touchscreen....now THAT may have been worth the price of admission by itself smile and the cost (apart from the case needing to be a tad bigger), would not have been that great as this screen has been on the G for a few years now.
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 01:02 PM

At least it has 76 keys for those that need it..keybed could be from the Juno Stage 76 (which I liked) but, didn't sell all that well,...good way to get rid of old surplus wink ....other then that in just a few weeks we will know all about it.
Anyone pre-order yet?
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 01:08 PM

Same keybed as the BK-5/GW8/Prelude just with 76 notes
Posted by: Tostie

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 01:34 PM

One of the few advantages Roland has over Yamaha is the better iPad integration with their instruments. In that case, the need for a large display on the instrument itself is less indispensable for a 'top' arranger.
Posted by: Tonewheeldude

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 02:55 PM

Roland use FATAR keyframes as do most manufacturers (except Yamaha). But fatar have different models of key frames and the software also makes a difference to the feel.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 03:24 PM

not always wink
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 03:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Tostie
One of the few advantages Roland has over Yamaha is the better iPad integration with their instruments. In that case, the need for a large display on the instrument itself is less indispensable for a 'top' arranger.


surprised You ARE kidding, right?
Posted by: Dreamer

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/26/13 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: adimatis
Hi Dreamer, long time no see!...


Hi Adi,
nice to see you as well.
Posted by: Scott Langholff

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/27/13 06:53 PM

So how does the BK3, BK5 and BK7M sound in comparison? Anybody know?
Posted by: musicforyourday

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/27/13 07:10 PM

I have a Bk-5 and find it a great 2nd keyboard to my Tyros 4 as a old G70 guy I am excited to see what this thing is gonna be I feel if they Improve the organ offering and more Piano choices at 76 keys it will be a winner I have a RD 700nx if it is what i think it is it will be up for sale.
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/27/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Same keybed as the BK-5/GW8/Prelude just with 76 notes






Dennis, I believe all three of these models have different keybeds...

For sure the Prelude and BK5 are different..(I still have both..The Prelude belongs to the band)..and if the GW8 is like the GW7 (I did own)...it is also different (more like the JunoG)..I disliked the Juno G keybed (I also owned that board)..

Also TW...In past years Roland designed and manufactured their own keybeds..

Korg and MediaStation are Fatar beds...Yamaha , I believe are made by "Mattel" grin
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/27/13 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango

...Yamaha , I believe are made by "Mattel" grin


rotfl


On a slightly mroe serious note wink Gw8 and Prelude are the same....the new one has a 76 note BK5 keybed.
Posted by: brooster

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 12:42 PM

Rolandconnect.com has a new part 2 video on the BK-9!
S1,S2,S3 AND S4 buttons above the pitchbend lever.
SuperNatural Logo on Keyboard.
Interesting.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 12:49 PM

Yes with a CS - now called a Chord Loop!!! two buttons too! Korg take ntoe.
Posted by: Impuls

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 01:46 PM

Old technic in a new box, this isn't the successor of the G70/E80 .
Just middle class, no league for Yamaha .

Impuls keys
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 01:51 PM

Features make the league, not the price. A CS will definitely put it head and shoulders above any Yamaha. You have no idea how useful this one feature is until you have tried it.

76 keys also puts it in a different league to Yamaha.
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 02:03 PM

Been looking at new video: http://youtu.be/J4ycXbFol58

You know, 'Chord Loop' might not be a proper Chord Sequencer... Roland have an audio 'looper' on their new VR-09 synth. Let's hope they haven't ported that to the BK-9.

In case you want to know why an audio looper would be of limited use: A proper CS only records the CHORDS... what variation and where the fills are (even the style or Performance) is still totally under your live control while the CS plays. An audio looper records the loop, and that's IT... Can't do a damn thing to it.

I know which I'll prefer..!
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 05:01 PM

It would be great if we could get a manual....

I note that on the VR-09 it is just tagged "Looper" and has one button only and is only for the drums- I suspect the one on the BK will be midi based...just a hunch though...
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/28/13 05:13 PM

The looper on the VR-09 is a full audio looper with sound on sound... listen to some of the demos...
Posted by: Phantom75

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 03/29/13 04:10 AM

Just to avoid misunderstanding:

Keyboard is the same as JP50 and JunoStage.. regular size but no Aftertouch

Chord loop is MIDI CS, coming from older series with some improvements..

but some days and all will be clear wink
P.
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 06:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
This is what you will get with the BK9..

A Juno Stage keybed..
Sound bank from the Jupiter50..
VE series vocal processor..
Independent screens from the BK5..


Most likely they will add..a Drawbar organ (VK) with sliders..
Chord sequencer..
16 track sequencer besides the 8 track style composer..

Benefits will be the mic input with effects and harmony..
76 keys with semi weighted keybed..
The great playback ability of the BK series..

This could be the ideal all in one lightweight keyboard..that many desire..and probally under 22 pounds...
Maybe a street price under 2 G's...(well under).

No...it will not be the replacement for the G70...but most likely a stablemate.. wink




Looks like I may be right on the money...with my description smile
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 08:12 AM

Don't you think in technology alone its years ahead of the older G70 ?
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Don't you think in technology alone its years ahead of the older G70 ?







Only the Media Player.....other than that ..what is there to improve on? smile
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Don't you think in technology alone its years ahead of the older G70 ?

other than that ..what is there to improve on? smile


I hope not,... surprised that's not saying much in the improvement department for Roland after all these years since the G70 was released?.
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 11:54 AM

Haven't heard word one about any Mark/Jump capabilities yet. For those of us that use SMF's as well as arranger mode, the loss of this amazingly useful function is crippling.

Maybe I have found a new crusade, now that my pleas for the return of the CS have finally shown fruit..?!

Hopefully, it won't take another 8 YEARS of pointing out the obvious before Roland come to their senses! Particularly as Korg and Yamaha (I think) already have the Mark/Jump features already.

And, for anyone from Roland reading this and going 'It will take money to add the buttons for Mark/Jump to an arranger', may I point out...

THERE IS NO USE FOR THE VARIATION BUTTONS DURING SMF PLAYBACK.

Use THEM for four Markers while the arranger is in SMF play mode.

It's NOT rocket science, guys!
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Diki

And, for anyone from Roland reading this and going 'It will take money to add the buttons for Mark/Jump to an arranger', may I point out...
THERE IS NO USE FOR THE VARIATION BUTTONS DURING SMF PLAYBACK.
Use THEM for four Markers while the arranger is in SMF play mode.
It's NOT rocket science, guys!


Diki ... why are YOU not working for a KB manufacturer?!? ... this use for the variation buttons is excellent ...
Posted by: abacus

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Diki


THERE IS NO USE FOR THE VARIATION BUTTONS DURING SMF PLAYBACK.

Use THEM for four Markers while the arranger is in SMF play mode.

It's NOT rocket science, guys!


Ah but that would be copying another manufacture that uses this feature and beyond. (So probably not unique enough as every manufacture try’s to be different)

Bill
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 01:45 PM

Every manufacturer has Stop Start and Fill buttons too. There's no patent on how you make double duty of arranger buttons. Doesn't seem like there's much in the way of any patents at all, as Korg lifted the Chord Sequencer from Roland, or the way that multi-pad ideas spread...

And no-one has ASKED me to help with arranger design. Be happy to if asked!
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Don't you think in technology alone its years ahead of the older G70 ?

other than that ..what is there to improve on? smile


I hope not,... surprised that's not saying much in the improvement department for Roland after all these years since the G70 was released?.












Why would you think that?

If the "old" G70 was just released as is..it would still more than compete with the competition..It only lacks the media player...It still outshines the rest in stage friendliness, touch screen functions, make up tools, and the best sequencer...on top of that a harmonizer that I would not trade for any TC Helicon on board offering...and the drawbar organ...

Added up...like I said wht is there to improve on smile
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 02:45 PM

Well I guess your right Fran.....accolades to Roland for producing something that truly can last the test of time.
Personally I think Roland has the most "NATURAL" "REALISTIC" sounds out of ANY unit on the market,.....this E50 I've been playing this week is a wake up call to how good Roland sounds are.
I forgot all this, but it certainly brought back good thoughts from my G1000, G70, E50, E60 days....... headphone
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 04:32 PM

Basically, a G70 with the BK-9's CS, new sounds and new features would still be the top dog of pro arrangers...

And the hell with the weight.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango

Why would you think that?

If the "old" G70 was just released as is..it would still more than compete with the competition..It only lacks the media player...It still outshines the rest in stage friendliness, touch screen functions, make up tools, and the best sequencer...on top of that a harmonizer that I would not trade for any TC Helicon on board offering...and the drawbar organ...

Added up...like I said wht is there to improve on smile


Apart from the drawbar organ .... rotf2 to the rest
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 06:42 PM

LOL, Dennis... you missing the Makeup Tools while you struggle with style and sequence editing in the PA3x? rotf2

But ADD what's new from the BK-9 to the G70, you have one hell of an arranger.

Yep, no sampler. What percentage of arranger players outside the Middle East uses one, anyway?

Yes, no multi-pads (but maybe some sync'd audio loops).

At the price point of the BK-9, only the Korg comes close. At the price of formidable complexity. Sonically, we've already heard much praise for the BK's drum and bass sound, and its styles. This arranger adds another 600 sounds to the BK's list. Should be interesting. And another bunch of styles.

My interest has been piqued...
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Diki
LOL, Dennis... you missing the Makeup Tools while you struggle with style and sequence editing in the PA3x? rotf2

But ADD what's new from the BK-9 to the G70, you have one hell of an arranger.

Yep, no sampler. What percentage of arranger players outside the Middle East uses one, anyway?

Yes, no multi-pads (but maybe some sync'd audio loops).

At the price point of the BK-9, only the Korg comes close. At the price of formidable complexity. Sonically, we've already heard much praise for the BK's drum and bass sound, and its styles. This arranger adds another 600 sounds to the BK's list. Should be interesting. And another bunch of styles.

My interest has been piqued...


Never struggled with the sequencer and style tools EVER wink Especially 32 bars of variation content rotf2

And the PA series can do things that Roland owners can only dream about smile and complexity of keyboards is a VERY subjective thing as well you know!

As for the BK9, well, my interest has waned significantly. I am still reserving judgement until the manual appears..but at the price point (which is significantly higher than those here are assuming) it is not in my sights at all.
Pricing can not be based soley on exchange rates, as Roland adopted some time back, a worldwide pricing policy, that does not use exchange rates at all, rather they are formulas based on the country of destination, and to allow the same profit margins to ALL dealers worldwide. So it is all weighted.

In Australia for example, the BK9 will retail at between $2800-3000. And with the worldwide pricing policy there is far less "wiggle room" for dealers, so the best "street will be around $2500-2600.

And add to all, that the Juno Stage keybed - which apart from slightly longer keys, carries the same spring action and travel of the GW8 - which was awful to play piano on, and the BK will be just the same.

Nah, this is one for the Roland tragics I think smile
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/02/13 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
....this E50 I've been playing this week is a wake up call to how good Roland sounds are.


That is a very stretched statement! smile
I agree Roland can sound good (G70 and E80) but E50 is not really a prove of that. Not at all. But that is just my ears and I might be wrong.

I had hopes for BK9, but the lack of a vocal harmonizer (?) and the price possibly going over 2000 euro - no competition for the coming PA900 I'm afraid.

We'll see what future holds...
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 12:06 AM

It's got a VH...

I doubt the PA900 will come in a 76, though.
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 12:28 AM

Well, it would make perfect sense to have a VH, I just did not get it from that list and I would consider it an important enough feature to be there. But anyway, we'll soon know for sure.
You're right about the 76 keys though. But that is about the only thing over Korg. And it is for a minority.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 09:23 AM

It has a mic input (as well s +48v) which can be routed through effects and then mixed to the main outs, but no harmoniser afaik.
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 09:52 AM

OK...

One less fake thing that fools no-one, I guess!

Pretty good idea to put mike in capabilities and some effects without adding a silly VH that doesn't come close to a standalone unit. TBH, I have no idea why, if anyone wants good sounding harmonies, they use an arranger VH. Even the best of them (Korg) is a pale shadow of the current crop of standalone's.
Posted by: jamman

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Diki
OK...

One less fake thing that fools no-one, I guess!

Pretty good idea to put mike in capabilities and some effects without adding a silly VH that doesn't come close to a standalone unit. TBH, I have no idea why, if anyone wants good sounding harmonies, they use an arranger VH. Even the best of them (Korg) is a pale shadow of the current crop of standalone's.


You are missing the point.stand alone is for studio, built in is for live work .both TC/Ketron and prior Roland harmonizers do decent work (may not be studio ready).Hooking up to a rack or bringing extra pedal/midi cable plus no full integration is the problem.with built in VH,fine tune VH as a patch per performance ,save it to the song book ,etc, you are set.you can have doubling,female or male (2 or 3 back up singers following you depending on style or song. Try that with outboard gear without tap dancing, remembering and connection issues which may go wrong during live play.

You have to be a singer and true OMB to understand the concept/importance of onboard VH and how it's pros outweigh cons.
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 12:00 PM

Not quite.
The immediate response to come into my mind is the ease in saving presets and recall them togheter with the rest of the performance.
One other would be one less piece of gear to carry around.
Anyway, what is so smart in adding a reverb into a keyboard, withour the VH? Doesn't even the least of the mixers for PA have a form of reverb/delay? As for the quality of VH, the Korg's one is not a pale shadow of anything, just has less features. Which is normal, but the quality just the same as their counterparts in Helicon's offer.
I am sorry for Roland not adding a real Vocal processor to their BK. THAT is something that I'm afraid does not fool anyone. wink
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 12:16 PM

Why All the complaining? !!! instead we should rejoice, it's a wonderful time to be an arranger KB player!!!! embrace what technology we NOW have & think back just a few short years ago when we DIDN'T have it... put more emphasis on becoming a better player instead of a chronic Faultfinder... cool2
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 12:43 PM

No complaining here.
wink
Just different oppinions I guess. I'd like this arranger to become a successul release and it could well be, by tommorow (my time) I'll see if that seems like one or not.
Why isn't here on the forum more buzz about it?
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 03:06 PM

Modern standalone harmonizers have MIDI (which would allow your arranger to call up the preset you want per Performance), they even have the ability to just LISTEN to audio and derive harmony from it, and basically, go to the demo pages of any of them and be amazed! There isn't honestly, an arranger that comes CLOSE.

The Korg is the best available, and that is based on TC stuff from 4-5 years ago. A lot has happened in the meantime.

And standalones USED to be studio gear, sure, but have you messed much with VoiceLive and others along those lines? Designed from the ground up to be live tools for singers. There's a lot more foot control than there used to be... One of the things that is difficult to do with an arranger is vary the harmonies much during a song. Sure, you can pick out a preset, one voice above, or block full harmonies, etc., but if you listen to real harmony, it is often different all the way through the song. One part here, a block there, one above, one above/one below, unison in some sections...

Most of the standalones give you multiple footswitches, which can alter the harmony as you go along. Bringing harmony in and out as required, to the degree needed is the hallmark of good harmony. Listening to arranger demos with block harmony voicing from beginning to the end (and a nasty, phase-y sounding block at that) simply makes me cringe. My G70's harmonizer is one of the better ones available (no Korg, though) and I can't bring myself to use it...

Better NO harmony than bad harmony!
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 03:07 PM

Donny's right - it's a wonderful time to be an arranger keyboard player. The work is coming in faster than anyone can imagine, the pay is higher than it has been in decades, and while budgets are being cut in some locations, other places are calling and booking more and more dates. Today, I lost 8 jobs from a location where I've been playing for 15 years. Two hours later, a lady from a brand new retirement and assisted living facility called and asked if she could book 12 jobs at each location, and at a higher rate than the one I just lost.

What I love about nearly all the new arranger keyboards is their versitility. They can do more things than most musician/entertainers ever dreamed of doing, and they do those things very, very well.

Cheers,

Gary cool
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/03/13 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Donny's right - it's a wonderful time to be an arranger keyboard player. The work is coming in faster than anyone can imagine, the pay is higher than it has been in decades, and while budgets are being cut in some locations, other places are calling and booking more and more dates. Today, I lost 8 jobs from a location where I've been playing for 15 years. Two hours later, a lady from a brand new retirement and assisted living facility called and asked if she could book 12 jobs at each location, and at a higher rate than the one I just lost.

What I love about nearly all the new arranger keyboards is their versitility. They can do more things than most musician/entertainers ever dreamed of doing, and they do those things very, very well.

Cheers,Gary cool


Gary when are you getting your new S950? keys
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Why All the complaining? !!! instead we should rejoice, it's a wonderful time to be an arranger KB player!!!! embrace what technology we NOW have & think back just a few short years ago when we DIDN'T have it... put more emphasis on becoming a better player instead of a chronic Faultfinder... cool2


THANK YOU DONNY !!! , you hit it and glad someone said it !!!

All this nit picking is getting crazy. Roland has put out a very useful tool for real time preformers with features most would find useful. How many musicians working out there now even use arrangers -- very few. How many in the audience care -- few to none. Oh yea, We've all had someone on the dance floor point to us and complain about that sax sound on one of our styles. HA !
If your that fussy you need TOTL studio equipment, and a big budget.

Things like on board speakers, built in VH, Samplers, etc. are used by a small percentage of those few who actually buy arrangers. Put that stuff in, up the weight and price and then more complaints will follow. I think Roland did a great job in deciding where to draw the line and put in what the majority of users really need. Its a wonder manufactures even care to put out new products to such a small market as we are.
My only wish is for manufactures to put out DVD tutorials so more people could get the most out of their products quickly. Many like myself have very short attention spans for manuels, many of which are poorly written or incomplete. Show me how to do it in real time, please.
Now everyone stop complaining and go play some music, you'll feel better. Myself included
Posted by: john smies

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
!
Its a wonder manufactures even care to put out new products to such a small market as we are.


That is probably seen from an American (USA) point of view.
Here in Western Europe and in particular in my home country the sales of (arranger ) keyboards have been massive and that goes for the Mediterranean countries as well. Furthermore a huge market among Arab musicians , a niche that was initially well catered for by KORG and later by Yamaha. Other than that I fully agree with what Donny said, people should be happy with the tremendous luxury of choice and the overall quality and possibilities of the equipment at hand.

regards,
John
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Why All the complaining? !!! instead we should rejoice, it's a wonderful time to be an arranger KB player!!!! embrace what technology we NOW have & think back just a few short years ago when we DIDN'T have it... put more emphasis on becoming a better player instead of a chronic Faultfinder... cool2


THANK YOU DONNY !!! , you hit it and glad someone said it !!!

All this nit picking is getting crazy. Roland has put out a very useful tool for real time preformers with features most would find useful. How many musicians working out there now even use arrangers -- very few. How many in the audience care -- few to none. Oh yea, We've all had someone on the dance floor point to us and complain about that sax sound on one of our styles. HA !
If your that fussy you need TOTL studio equipment, and a big budget.

Things like on board speakers, built in VH, Samplers, etc. are used by a small percentage of those few who actually buy arrangers. Put that stuff in, up the weight and price and then more complaints will follow. I think Roland did a great job in deciding where to draw the line and put in what the majority of users really need. Its a wonder manufactures even care to put out new products to such a small market as we are.
My only wish is for manufactures to put out DVD tutorials so more people could get the most out of their products quickly. Many like myself have very short attention spans for manuels, many of which are poorly written or incomplete. Show me how to do it in real time, please.
Now everyone stop complaining and go play some music, you'll feel better. Myself included



Your very welcome Bill,......I also agree on the DVD tutorials which should be a mandatory part of the unit when purchased in Beginner & advanced versions..
I have said this also for years..it would benefit the manufacturers and players in so many ways.
Posted by: Bill Lewis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:42 AM

Originally Posted By: john smies
Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
!
Its a wonder manufactures even care to put out new products to such a small market as we are.


That is probably seen from an American (USA) point of view.
Here in Western Europe and in particular in my home country the sales of (arranger ) keyboards have been massive and that goes for the Mediterranean countries as well. Furthermore a huge market among Arab musicians , a niche that was initially well catered for by KORG and later by Yamaha. Other than that I
fully agree with what Donny said, people should be happy with the tremendous luxury of choice and the overall quality and possibilities of the equipment at hand.

regards,
John


John
You are absolutely correct, I have no knowledge of sales other than what I see in my area of the US. I'm sure thats why the major manufactures continue to make these products, but it must be tough to design something for the different tastes of a worldwide market. I do wish more musicians here would recognize the benefits an arranger could provide them. Probably too much work for the current crop, easier to put on an MP3 and strum your guitar with it. Instant gratification.
Posted by: 124

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 08:39 AM

True. Guitars are king up here, too. I'm not complaining, though. That's why we're something a little different from the steady diet of pickers with the same old SMF's doing the rounds. Vive la difference!
Posted by: adimatis

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
I think Roland did a great job in deciding where to draw the line and put in what the majority of users really need. ...Now everyone stop complaining and go play some music, you'll feel better. Myself included


Oh come on! What is with this "complaining" guys? If someone says "that and that is not quite right" it is not complaining on anything. It's simply expressing personal oppinion. Complaining starts once you've bought or start the use of the instrument! wink

On the other hand, tell me how many players would use an mic input with their keyboards without a Vocal Harmonizer? Drawing the line right between the mic input and a harmonizer I think was not that smart...

Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 10:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Why All the complaining? !!! instead we should rejoice, it's a wonderful time to be an arranger KB player!!!! embrace what technology we NOW have & think back just a few short years ago when we DIDN'T have it... put more emphasis on becoming a better player instead of a chronic Faultfinder... cool2


Sorry Donny... your memory may be shorter than mine. I tend to remember the wonderful technology we had back then that we no longer have.

Roland's new version of the Chord Sequencer is an utter waste of time, Korg's only JUST got fixed so that it follows transposition... The more new arrangers come out, the more fundamental, IMPORTANT features get dropped and the more barely useful audio features get added that don't substitute for what is lost.

Once upon a time, MOTL and TOTL arrangers were made for MUSICIANS. Now they are being made for amateurs and gadget crazed children. And the core functionality of arrangers is being compromised more and more.

I'm more concerned with chronic Design, it appears. rolleyes
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 12:37 PM

I'm quite happy with what we now have ...the CS I was never crazy about & it's moot wink for my needs,never used it. KB Features come and go like all technology. Just go with the flow, less complaining and more playing music I say.
Posted by: miden

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
...... it's mute for my needs,


it is actually moot ...sorry m8 but the meanings are not even close wink
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: Dnj
...... it's mute for my needs,


it is actually moot ...sorry m8 but the meanings are not even close wink



cool2
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 01:10 PM

Mute might be the better term!

And sorry, no offense, but the CS always was a 'players' tool, the better your playing, the more useful. If your act is built around your voice, and extensive soloing is not a feature (or using other instruments, etc.) it has less impact on your arranger use.

Sorry, but without this feature, it's LESS playing (and more complaining) because my LH is constantly tied up doing the same boring thing each verse over and over again. Me, I've got a decent LH. I'd like to use it for something more interesting...

Mind you, Donny, as you refuse to use footpedals to help you out with arranger operation, I guess that LH gets a workout pushing buttons rather than chording too much. But put all that at your feet, and you quickly realize how underutilized your LH can get.

The CS is to players what SMF's are to the less skilled. An opportunity to use your FULL two hand technique to its fullest. And the audience sure likes to hear that (if you can!).
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Diki
Mute might be the better term!

And sorry, no offense, but the CS always was a 'players' tool, the better your playing, the more useful. If your act is built around your voice, and extensive soloing is not a feature (or using other instruments, etc.) it has less impact on your arranger use.

Sorry, but without this feature, it's LESS playing (and more complaining) because my LH is constantly tied up doing the same boring thing each verse over and over again. Me, I've got a decent LH. I'd like to use it for something more interesting...

Mind you, Donny, as you refuse to use footpedals to help you out with arranger operation, I guess that LH gets a workout pushing buttons rather than chording too much. But put all that at your feet, and you quickly realize how underutilized your LH can get.

The CS is to players what SMF's are to the less skilled. An opportunity to use your FULL two hand technique to its fullest. And the audience sure likes to hear that (if you can!).
.....

Give me a break..to each his own and the CS is not my bag,.....HOW we do it means squat,......"what it sounds like" is what counts every time. headphone .... hey did you hear that?.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door? wink ...Hmmmmmm? cool2 keys
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 01:55 PM

What's a BK-54?
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
What's a BK-54?


Whoopsie!! dancers
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
What's a BK-54?


49 models after BK-5 ... dance
Posted by: jamman

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 04:42 PM

CS is as important as multi pads for me.Real soloing of monophonic instruments (real sax solo)using wheels or bender(of course ribbon controller for Pa3x owners.
Posted by: Uncle Dave

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door?

Oh, brother. You're going to HATE that for your shows.
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
hey did you hear that?.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door? wink ...Hmmmmmm? cool2 keys


You gotta' be kiddin!
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Originally Posted By: Dnj
hey did you hear that?.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door? wink ...Hmmmmmm? cool2 keys


You gotta' be kiddin!


... some people buy milk and bread, some people buy keyboards ... rotfl laugh2
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Originally Posted By: Dnj
hey did you hear that?.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door? wink ...Hmmmmmm? cool2 keys


You gotta' be kiddin!


... some people buy milk and bread, some people buy keyboards ... rotfl laugh2


Everyone needs a Roland in the arsenal.. wink
Posted by: tony mads usa

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/05/13 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
Originally Posted By: Dnj
hey did you hear that?.......could it be my new BK-5 at the door? wink ...Hmmmmmm? cool2 keys


You gotta' be kiddin!


... some people buy milk and bread, some people buy keyboards ... rotfl laugh2


Everyone needs a Roland in the arsenal.. wink


Why ? confused1
Posted by: john smies

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: tony mads usa


Everyone needs a Roland in the arsenal.. wink


Why ? confused1 [/quote]


Why NOT ? smirk smirk smirk


regards,
John
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 01:32 AM

Fortunately, Donny, arranger manufacturers don't make arrangers with only what YOU think is relevant!

Or there wouldn't be ANY pedal inputs for sustain or anything else, let alone samplers, Chord Sequencers and all the myriad of other features YOU have no use for.
Posted by: john smies

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 03:04 AM


Gee Whiz Diki, I am starting to wonder if you ever get down to actually playing your ten year old Roland with all those postings. Would be a shame to let it go wasted, wouldn't it ?
smile smile smile

Regards,
John
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Diki
Fortunately, Donny, arranger manufacturers don't make arrangers with only what YOU think is relevant!

Or there wouldn't be ANY pedal inputs for sustain or anything else, let alone samplers, Chord Sequencers and all the myriad of other features YOU have no use for.


Like I said its a wonderful time to be an arranger kb player eh?
Posted by: travlin'easy

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 06:32 AM

If my memory serves me correctly, which sometimes doesn't cooperate, Donny just purchased the S-950 about the same time I left the Florida Keys, which was March 3rd. So, does the BK-5 mean the S-950 is history? I know you don't lug a pair of keyboards around, and in the very short time you've owned the S-950 you couldn't possibly learned 1-percent of the keyboard's capabilities. So, what's up?

Gary cool
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 06:48 AM

Gary I have both........gotta have backup..!
Posted by: sparky589

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 07:25 AM

As to dvd tutorials, the ones I've used for Ketron from Jay Fox are well worth it. He is a Ketron dealer though and does not produce them for other brands. he also includes written instructions that follow the dvd.
Posted by: Dnj

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 08:10 PM

Years ago our very own SZ member Ketron demonstrator Dan O'Neil made some real nice X1 & SD-1 VHS demos which helped myself and others get started with those units..it's always a PLUS as even though someone might think they know it all, they really don't and can always be open to learning something new.
Posted by: Ketron_AJ

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/06/13 09:40 PM

There is a new 3+hrs DVD manual and tutorial available for the Ketron AUDYA series keyboards at www.AjamSonic.com

It's a must have for ANY AUDYA user (with or without the AJAMSONIC package installation.

Ask those on this very forum who have these and the wealth of information gathered in such a 'short' time.
Posted by: Diki

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/07/13 09:01 PM

Actually, Donny hasn't bought a BK-5. He's 'rented' one to try it out. He won't have BOUGHT it until he still has it three months from now!
Posted by: DonM

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/07/13 10:23 PM

I think Donny may find the E50 he got from me is better in many ways than the BK5!
Don't forget, arrangers are not only our work tools, but also our hobbies and passions! It's OK to experiment.
DonM
Posted by: Fran Carango

Re: Roland, We Are Back - 04/08/13 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: DonM
I think Donny may find the E50 he got from me is better in many ways than the BK5!
Don't forget, arrangers are not only our work tools, but also our hobbies and passions! It's OK to experiment.
DonM





Don you are right to some extent...The E50 edge is the touch screen, larger lyric view,dedicated buttons (easier stage operation), sequencer, and no glitch reading common system exclusive messages while using make up tools (my pet peave with BK5)..

What he will be thrilled about the BK5...onboard EQ...better sound, great styles, and the best media player currently on the market...and 16 pound package...oh yea...it is black...