How Much do you STRIP Down your Styles & Why?

Personally I rarely strip down style parts as I was the fullest sound I can get as a OMB performer trying to replace a full band...in fact I wish at times I had even MORE parts then what's offered in a style that's where the MULTIPADS come in very handy to fill in variation GAPS., I sometimes will record a NEW style part to fit my song or a multitrack backing track MP3 to play and sing with to fill the need,.....One thing I mostly eliminate in a style is any Choir, or Scat Voices as they are not needed for my needs on stage. Any its mostly Pedal To The metal regarding style parts for me....How about you?

I generally take out the horns and strings and pads in country styles. Most of the time I like to sound like a small combo, not an orchestra. I could be happy with drums, bass, piano and guitar strum, maybe an organ here and there in some styles.

My lead sounds are guitars, piano, sax, organ, harmonica, Cajun accordion, more or less in that order. I use vibes on some jazz songs and an occasional EP. That's about it.
DonM

all the way To me the best is the small combo sound and groove!!

Pretty much just drums, bass and piano...sometimes (i/2 the time), I just use left-handed bass. Want to play as much live as possible.


R

It's amazing how different we are,........also the "gig venue" warrants the style of music played,....for example Dennis, & Russ's versions above would never be used IMO for a pumping packed dance crowds,...but, in a small lounge scenario it would work to a point for some....I played with 7-8 pcs for 25 years and that's the way I want to sound today last 20 as a OMB...
it's worked very successfully for 45+ years to this day so there's no reason to stop now.

I will often strip down some 'Big Band' styles especially if I like the drum/bass/guitar patterns and save them under a different name for use in different songs, or depending on the venue ...

If I am playing in an intimate atmosphere in a restaurant or 'supper club' (do they call them that any more ) I will generally keep it simple, but if I am playing for dancing I like the sound of a big band backing me up ...

Sometimes I will take out the piano parts on swinging or bossa nova type stuff because I like to play it myself. Also like Tony, I'll take out some of the horn back up on some of the big band styles.

Much of this depends upon the style itself. Some are a bit too busy, while others may need the assistance of multi-pads. There's no hard, fast rule when it comes to styles, at last as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,

Gary

If the venu is small, and it's unlikely that I will push any real volume - I take out almost all the fluff and just leave the core trio behind my chording hand. I'll let Mr Korg play Bass, Drums and Strings(guitar, organ whatever it is ..)in a small setting - a large ensemble can sound very lackluster, especially if you're playing quietly.
My "go to" sound has always been: Rhodes(RH) Bass(LH), drums and synth du jour .... add strong vocal harmonies and I'm set.

I take out everything I can play myself. Depends on the song, but I've played live bands all my life. Few of them had horns, string sections, rhythm AND lead keyboard players... I was expected to do all that myself. I usually had a bass player, a drummer and one guitarist. And we managed to pull it off...

So, primarily, all I want is that rhythm section. The rest should be me. I don't do bigband, so no-one is expecting an 18 piece band. The minute you start allowing the machine to take over, you dilute what YOU are doing. The audience rarely knows what is playing what, but they can smell out when more is being played than one man can possibly do!

I want my audience to know, when they hear me, that it's ME...

Ditto for me and the smaller combo sound. Playing dinner sets, with the nearest tables within arm's reach, don't lend themselves to loud big band styles, or any other loud, punchy styles. Even when I use those styles, I really cut back on the horn parts. Those trumpets can be murder at times. And, why the extra loud parts on intros and endings (Yamaha) on some of the styles? Just when I think I've got things balanced, here comes an unsuspecting part jumping out of the mix! Sort of like the TV audio during commercials.

Less is more

Over in Europe WAV backing tracks are quite common (That have been played and recorded by the player, NOT some commercial rubbish) as styles are just too repetitive.

Styles are used, but with just a few instruments such as Drums, Bass and perhaps a Guitar vamp, (All singing and dancing styles are left to home players) as the punters expect to hear the player (If in Concert) or be driven along by the player (If dancing) not by lousy repetitive automatics. (This in reality is what arranger styles are)

Bill

Hi,

This may be slightly off topic but basically I like to strip styles when they are too busy of the obvious sounds and in particular I like to cut down on the drums which as you all know Korg does do a lot better than Yamaha. Talking of which and no doubt Gary, Don,Donny etc. could confirm this or help me out here: If you want to change instruments in the styles ,which I often do, I find that the PSR750 does not allow for instance to replace the five acc. sections ALL by piano. You can replace a piano acc. track by another piano but if the track has brass or whatever you cannot replace it by piano. And the section STYLE Voices is a laugh. It does not even include piano. I mention piano as an example mind you. ( though I have often found that with Roland and Korg styles, if you replace all acc.tracks with dry acoustic piano, you often get very laudable results !)

regards
John

John

Sure you could change to piano on any of them and often it will work, The reason that some don't sound right is if you have a horn section, guitar or some other instrument that is using a typical emulation that those instruments do it won't sound right on piano. Say you've got a guitar that bends a note or a horn section that does a fall, this is not characteristic of piano and will not sound right. So, if you don't like it, record a part that you would like the piano to do.

I would really think this would be so on all brands.

Scott

Not so though. On any Korg you can tweak ANY sound even beyond recognition and use either that sound or the original in ANY position in the acc. tracks, and in there you can also adjust ANY track as regards pitch ( thus adjusting the octave range of the instrument used in the acc. section).
On the PSR750 you cannot do any of those. I guess you could reconstruct a style but have been unable to find how to change instruments in an existing style and save this as a user style.
Anyone ?

regards,
John

John, without having the keyboard directly in front of me, I'll have to provide the best information I can from off the top of my head.

Press the Mixing Console button twice, this will open the page that allows you to select the the various components of the style itself. To change that instrument, press the button adjacent to the "Voice" line, then using the 1 through 8 buttons at the bottom of the display, select the individual instrument. At this point you can tab to effects, and make an changes you wish. You can then select the Digital Recording/Style Creator, make additional changes, press execute, press save, the provide the style with a User/Third-party name and save it to the user area, either on the USB drive, or internal memory. Keep in mind, though, that the internal memory area is quite limited in size.

Hope this helps,

Gary

"The audience rarely knows what is playing what, but they can smell out when more is being played than one man can possibly do!"

Diki, do you really believe they actually care? C'mon, they came there to be entertained, and I seriously doubt that they give a Tinker's Damned about how those sounds are being created as long as they are having fun.

Gary

"The audience rarely knows what is playing what, but they can smell out when more is being played than one man can possibly do!"


It's an automated arranger ....period.

John,
Press the Channel On/Off button, then press the Top button above the style part you want to change.
This will get you to the sound menu. Hit the Up button to get past the Style Part voices, into the main Voice menu. Select any sound you like, from any Bank.
Hope this helps.
DonM

Don/Gary,

Thanks for your explanations, but I still do not get want I would want really. I can NOT replace all five instrument tracks by a piano or electric piano, just try and do that for example with style Rock&Roll ( R/B , page one , style 9).
Two of the tracks, when replace by piano play a high pitched arpeggio ( obviously a few octaves too high). YOu will encounter this with many more styles. Scott's explanation is plausible but still I think one meets with a limitation not found on the Korgs..............may be wrong..............

regards,
JOhn

Well the style parts are written for the appropriate instruments. I can see why a part written for a guitar or flute or accordion might not sound right when played by a piano!
You can totally rewrite style parts in the Style Creator.
DonM

Hi John

Sounds like a Mega voice (Which Korgs don’t have) which reacts in particular ways with additional notes in the style, thus if you use a non-Mega Voice all sorts of weird things can start to happen unless you delete these extra notes in the style.

Hope this helps

Bill

Why not just re-record the style part and replace the original with the new one exactly as needed....all the tools are in the KB to do this.

Secondly why do people want to always shy away, associate yourself, or being proud of from what an arranger keyboard is supposed to do? ......."Sound Like a full band BY Yourself"
You only fooling yourself if you think otherwise or that the audience doesn't know what you doing.b the mere fact alone that you are pressing keys to create sounds other then a piano, organ, etc is more then enough evidence to anyone listening or watching that it's all automated in some way.

Yeah, the vast majority don't care, and those that are interested are always intrigued when they stop by afterwards and you give them a quick tour around the keyboard. They're fascinated/gobsmacked by what you've been up to for the last hour or more.

124, you're right about that. I've had people look at the arranger keyboard and said it had more buttons than the cockpit of a 747. Those that are interested are absolutely fascinated by what you can do with the arranger keyboard.

Gary

I leave everything in. I'm with Donny on this one, I want everything the keyboard has and then I still fill with my right hand. I waited too many years to play with a big band. Now I have one and I don't have to keep up the payroll. There are certain songs that for effect I'll just play piano or guitar but for the most part, I want it full and up front.

Joe

That may be so Donny and Joe et al, but at the gigs we play here, if punters see a solo with all that "fluff" as one so aptly put it going on, they turn and go back out the same door!! They want to hear the person, good or bad, not the machine!

Not that I like the fluff anyway -never have -, even if the audience didn't care...I care about what I am doing, plus playing more parts makes it much more fun

D

Dennis, whether or not the audience cares has no bearing on what we care about. I'm pretty sure that every man Jack on here cares very much about what he's doing. I know I do. It's caring that's kept us in the game all these years.

No need for defence mode 124, I never said any different the italics were for emphasis in regards to the audience not other forum members..

Yeah, no biggie, Dennis. I could've suffixed my post with " just saying". Cheers!

Cool b's

I appreciate live performances of most kinds of music even though I may not listen to the same style/genre of music on the radio, or an album, or even a live recording of the same artist.

I appreciate the time, talent, dedication, and love a musician or entertainer puts into his/her live performance.

I think it's probably a similar reaction when listeners begin to believe that what they are hearing may be mostly "canned". IMHO the more the listener senses canned the more critical their attitude becomes about what music is being played.

(The average listener also wouldn't have any appreciation for the many hours one may have put in creating and tweaking the styles used to support one's playing.)

EDIT: i.e., My personal preference are the "combo" 3-4 piece.

Since I have a Motif XF I prefer its Drums and Bass as well as the Guitar arps over those voices in the Tyros 3 Styles so I shut them off in the Style. Then I remove specific voices based upon the song. Some styles are just too busy. I also substitute instruments, for example change the string or pad voice.

I think what people expect is what they expect from YOU!. I get lots of people say, "see, he's actually playing".

Rarely do I get, "do you have.....", expecting a pre-recorded "something".

But, that's what I do, and I'm not saying even one person here or on a bandstand anywhere should do the same.

My jobs are mostly dinners before meetings or jazz performances.
At dinner jobs, you play to be noticed, but not get in the way.

At jazz performances, people hang onto your every phrase. They actually come up and watch your hands. They interact a lot with you. Arrangers (at least, played in full arranger mode)are off the table for these jobs.

But we're talking different animals here.


R.

PS. Just look at Nigel's boys, Chick and Return to Forever, or my guys, Foreplay, to see how much 4 players who really cook can really do.

If the audience doesn't give a rats whether it's you or the machine, where does that place your importance in their 'entertainment'..? You are making yourself one short step away from being a DJ.

If you are comfortable with that, fine. Me, I am a MUSICIAN, not a pusher of buttons.

I play chords do vocals and thinker with a solo here and there and a lick here and there, so, I need all the help I can get. Lol. I'm a sax man doing a OMB thing.

One of the few people that I've noticed watching my hands was an Elvis Presley three chord arranger player when I was doing "I've Got You Under My Skin," Bossa Nova style. I think he was trying to figure out if I was using a MIDI file or if I really could be playing all those chord changes. Ha ha!.

my favorite way to play that beautiful song...

That's the way it was introduced in Cole Porter's "Anything Goes" waaaay back in the 30s! One of my ALL TIME favorite musicals! There is a clarinet arpeggio that lies under the melody that's just BEAUTIFUL ... and so much fun to play. Check out the Sutton Foster revival on Broadway a few years ago - it won the Tony for best revival!

It depends alot on the genre of song and the style involved. Very often, less is more. I've sure noticed a great improvement in the sounds of the different instruments/voices. Now a country song can actually sound "country" and across the board, the styles in most genres are much improved. Still no dobro or flattop guitar, though. Drat!

I generally tweak nearly everything to tailor the style to the song I've written when possible. Volumes, changing a sax to a bass or guitar, etc. I'm still not too happy with the Vocal Harmony settings. Much too complex and complicated. Mason is right, do VH as little as possible.

Dave Rice

My 950 has an excellent Dobro and Flat top, plus washboard and Juice Harp. You must have the Texas version, with only modern guitars in it.

DonM

If you can extend the decay (not release) parameter on a banjo sound, you can often get quite close to dobro country...

and tweak the res just a tad

Mason, you rascal... my 910 is the Poor Texan's version but it sure sounds wonderful compared to the old 2000 which I've kept as a back-up. I sold the Baby Korg. It sounded nice and was just the right size for what I do... but the learning curve was too difficult and time consuming for me. I try to spend as much time as possible writing and recording. The transition from the 2000 to the 910 was a piece of cake.

Dave

I'll sell you a big daddy Korg and throw in operating lessons!
DonM

Sorry, Don:

I just spent my children's inheritance to acquire the 910... LOL! Now you understand how miserable my retirement package ended up being. They only began to have 401k's during the last stages of my working career. Oh well, always late for the dance.

Dave

Well, No one can take the rhythm section out as no rhythm - no life. It also depends on the audience - me have a small group of young blokes into "dance" styles... So when did i last hear strings?!! Bass and more bass.

Hey, Diki and Dennis...

I'll try that Banjo thing you suggested and see if I might "back into" something sounding like a dobro. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave Rice