Has Yamaha really come that far?

Aside from Mega/Sas...... is there really a huge difference after listening to the PSR9000 of which I had two years ago...

check this out

At 49lbs the 9k must weigh more then him .....
Nice Job start em young!! hey I started at 6yrs old myself!

I play a 9000 Pro fairly often, as it belongs to a good buddy (Glen Campbell's former piano player) who lives about a half hour from my place.

It still sounds very good (especially the piano), although, he also has a Tyros3 that he likes a bit more than the 9Kpro. He keeps the latter because of the great feeling 76-note keyboard (he is a piano player after all)

The PSR-9000 (with the on-board speakers) is pretty heavy, and the 9000 Pro is about the same...they have their own distinctive CD like Yamaha sound, but the SA/SA2 and mega voices in the Tyros models (especially the T4) really make the instruments come alive.

There are quite a few 9000's still in use, according to my client list...mostly home use.

Ian

New stuff pretty much still has the same old crappy drums.

I used to have 9000pro.The best key feel of any synth,arranger or workstation plus two PLG boards expanded.The keys come from my favorite Yamaha workstation that is worth mentioning, EX5.I used to have it and still miss it sometimes.
And I agree , still the same drums now and then.
But 9000pro was good arranger.I have to say you couldn't do much on keyboard itself if you wanted to do some in-depth editing.Too bad Tyros doesn't use keys from 9000pro.On that note 9000 keys are horrible.

The 9k was my first Yamaha arranger comin from a Korg & Technics.. ... I actually bought two one for backup at that time new paid around 2400.00 ea, ..
be nice if you could just take out and put in any keybed you wanted for your needs like a Fatar etc,.......but I agree the drums haven't changed at all up to & thru the T4. maybe T5 will show something different.

Sorry Donny, but that is simply flat out WRONG!
Having owned a Psr2000, Tyros 1, Tyros 2, and now Tyros 4,
I have heard drum sound improvement with each subsequent upgrade,
with the most significant upgrade in sound heard with the new "live drums"
implemented on Tyros 4.

I have also had & performed with the 9k,2k, 21,3k, 900,910,T1,T2, & have played a T4 & I'm still not convinced... the problem lies in the compression of the drums...which scrunches the overall "LIVE sound nuances" missed in all Yamaha arranger drums.....vs Korg, Roland, Ketron.

Actually, the FSX keybed on Tyros4, is much better feeling, to my fingers at least, than the 9000 Pro, and my friend with the latter agrees with me.

My other favorite action, was the 88 note, weighted actioned, Yamaha KX-88 Controller from way back around 1986 or so...the FSX is even better to me than that one.

As far as drums...I agree with Scott...the drums have steadily improved, and with the Tyros4's "live drums", are super to my ears.

I prefer Yamaha's drums to the competition, as they sound better fitted to the mix, and are smoother, more refined.

I like refined, especially when it also sounds "live".

Use what suits your needs best, I always say, and Yamaha works for me.

Ian

I do agree with you about the more compressed Yamaha drum sound vs the other arranger brand keyboards, but in spite of that, there still has been substantial improvement in the overall Yamaha drum sound, including more detail and clarity.

here are some KORG Drums.....

Yamaha Tyros 4: Jazz Demo featuring "live" drums"

The drums on the T4 are way better than previous models. Being that my dad was a drummer and it was the first instrument I learned and that currently I am playing a couple months with a drummer for some snowbird dances, I really feel the Yamaha drums sound more realistic, especially in the mix, than Korg. It's just that the drum mix is set louder on the Korgs why? Because they are going for the kids that like thump, thump, boom. If you really listen to the Korgs realizing it's the volume setting you will notice, at least to my ears, the Korg does not really sound like like acoustic drums but very fake to my ears if you listen close

Not only do I like the T4 drums, and the styles and the voices I like being able to take it out of the box, find the EQ I like and I'm playing instead of "trying to make it my own." I for one like making music. I have never liked fiddling around with buttons and settings, etc. IMHO

In all fairness, there's some neat sounds, styles and features on the competition, but I prefer realistic sounding acoustic instruments and that's what I'm getting. On Korg, you've got your great organ, electric pianos etc. Their acoustic instruments sound like a synth to me and I feel that Korg's ARE more synth oriented.

So, if you like louder drums and the unbeatable Yamaha voices, then just turn up the drum volume. Issue solved in my book.

If you need more than that, do as Al suggests and get some drum samples for the T4 and blow 'em all away. Just not important to me. Also, remember sounds project differently. Record yourself, and play it back and go out where the audience is. The drums come through better out front, I feel, than on stage.

P.S. I like the sounds I like on my keyboard better than the sounds you like on your keyboard.haha I read this line just lately on another forum and I laughed out loud. Reminded me of SZ.

Wouldn't those little fingers fit much better on some micro keys?


On a serious Note : The most disgusting part is the internal hardware used

in 1999 the PSR 9000 released with 32MB of Wave rom, the Tyros 4 has 96 MB of wave rom. The PSR9000 has 126 note polyhony the Tyros 4 has 128 note polyphony. Processor power of the sound engine hasnt really increased much.

In 1999 i bought a single core 400 MhZ Pentium 3 with 256 MB of memmory which cost just as much as my current system with 2 x 8 cores running at 4Ghz each and 24GB memmory.

Yamaha is still using the same old technollogy as back then.. the sample quallity has only marginally improved.

The hardware costs for T4 are almost non excistant. Most of the software code and sampling is copied directly from their Motif series, my telephone has a better screen and more processor power then teh Tyros4 and yet they dare to charge thousands of dollars for it.

Scott, you must have been reading my mind (pretty scary, ain't it?)...I especially like your statement "I like being able to take it out of the box, find the EQ I like and I'm playing instead of 'trying to make it my own'. I for one like making music. I have never liked fiddling around with buttons and settings, etc."

I feel the very same...I'm a player first, a tweaker second, even though, as you know, I like editing styles and sounds(the T4 gives me plenty to work with on sounds, as mostly I just want to change an attack or filter setting), I'm sitting behind those keys to PLAY and enjoy the instrument, and pass on those feelings to my listeners.

There are some who like to tweak...endlessly sometimes, but we never hear their music, or have any idea what their tweaking actually has accomplished. I guess it's a more personal experience for them.

"Different strokes for different folks", as they say.

Bottom line for me...the Tyros4 is a very expressive arranger, that lets me do what I love most...PLAY music.

Ian

I agree 100%. Main thing is to enjoy what you've got, be willing to check other things out with an open mind, and then “stick to your guns.”

DNJ you do realise the drums on the Korg PA3X Demo dont come with the PA3X ? you have to buy the maple drum samples from an independent and the sell the same drum kit for the tyros !

Thank you for making me aware of that, flexibility & being able to add on /install extra things with any KB is paramount to creating amazing music, vs having to upgrade to a new model every two years or so...

That little dude looks like a YOUNG Michael Vonken (sp??)
Look at his face when he smiles!!!!

Michele Voncken ..

That 9000 weights about as much as the kid!
Still sounds good though.
DonM

yep its great that we dont have to wait on yamaha or korg for more possibilities from our instruments .

listen to these styles available for the korg PA2X and £X and yamaha Tyros 3 and 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKDpkQXTQLw

PSR 3000 still sounds just as good as any arranger kb Yamaha has made Release Date : 1/2004

After re-visiting the above demos...I believe the Tyros4, improved the drums (at least the brush kit)...The drums have always been dead last in the competition, but the Tyros4 is presentable...

The problem for me..is still there...after listening again to the above demos.....Yamaha still sounds like they are heard down the hall or in another room...I just dislike this....Listen to the Korg and other demos presented...doesn't bother anyone...be honest ..for a change ...Just listen..

The PSR-3000 was one of my favorites...I owned two of them, because at that time, I was playing several nights a week, and it was nice to have one set up on the stand in my music room, and one in the gig bag ready to go. It's also wise to have a back-up if you are gigging a lot.

Never had a problem with either of them, in spite of a lot of use, and both were sold and are still going strong with new owners.

The addition of the mega voices on the PSR-3000 were what attracted me most...those, and the wicked overall sound, which is very balanced, detailed and almost CD like in quality, although, I did find it excellent for even dance gigs, where drums/bass were more predominant. I had a set of registrations that were made just for those occasions.

I believe Gary Diamond still uses a pair of 3K's, and I can't say I blame him, as they are wonderful all-round arrangers.

Ian

The headline for this topic could be "Have Arrangers Really Come That Far? Probably discussed in length before but still an interesting topic

Anyway, another example, this time using the 3000 as a midi backing board (I believe triggered at the 1:00 mark) while playing along with a Yamaha P-85. The more I hear the use of midis rather than styles the more interesting it seems to be.(I have never used midi backing tracks, but may give it a go) Although for live playing, it seems you can't cover for mistakes or mess up your timing with midi backings. Styles can be a little more forgiving. Agree? Sorry didn't want to stray away from the topic.

I think this video illustrates a nice combo, and yes the 3000 was, and still is, a nice board, with many of the same features used today so that makes Donny mostly correct.





BONUS:



One More:



Yea I like this setup

Larry, I don't get it...folks think this arrangement (recording) sounds great...and they dished my rendition of the same song, same feel (no seq)..the Micro rendition, sounds better and has more expression, even with mini keys

Both are ten year technology

I don't get it either...I believe your renditions and style of playing these type songs is excellent, (as were these) For me, on many songs, sometimes less is more, but maybe it's not for everyone.

Technology was pretty good 10 years ago...it's why I still have a PSR-3000, and wish I still had the KN-7000

For me, the 3000 was, and still is, the best thing since sliced bread. I've owned one since they were first introduced, bought a second for a backup a couple years later and they really have done a fantastic job. Of all the keyboards I've owned over the past two decades, the 3000 has been the best in every category.

The above demos Larry posted really didn't do anything for me. Sorry Larry, just didn't enjoy them at all.

Gary 8)

Personally, I think where Yamaha has surpassed the great PSR-3000, is with the introduction of SA/SA2 voices (S900/S910 and relevant Tyros models), and the ease whereby even an amateur player, can bring off realistic expressions of the instruments they emulate.

Being an instrumentalist (many arranger players on SZ rely mainly on their vocals) having realistic instrument emulations is very important to me.

With SA/SA2, the more recent Yamaha arrangers are a cut above previous models, and with the Tyros4 being able to use these SA/SA2 instruments in styles, the difference is even more marked.

Hearing a PA-50SD (or KMA), and a PSR-3000, and comparing them, my vote goes to the latter for realism in the styles (mega voices) and the right hand voices, especially the guitars and pianos ...they are far superior...of course, this is my personal opinion...sound is always subjective. I do notice that several SZ members are still using (and enjoying) a PSR-3000, whilst the number still using a PA-50SD appears to be rather small.

It is only with the introduction of the dirt cheap KMA, that a few have drifted towards Korg...most of these same people never gave the then new PA-50SD a second glance, until it's technology was recently repackaged into a more inexpensive (and albeit, relatively more portable) instrument.

Has Yamaha come that far? I'd say yes. The recent addition of on-board Audio, (or Audio to USB on the mid-range), recording is another great feature.

However, so has Korg with their DNC and other features.

The arranger instruments from both manufacturers have been steadily, and markedly, improved over a period of time.

Roland, however, seems to be at a standstill with arrangers...none with anything substantially new sound wise, and none a fitting successor to the G-70/E-80.

Ian

Hi Fran

After just listening to your version of Over the Rainbow again there is no comparison, as you say the Micro sounds far superior and yours is a far nicer arrangement the swing tempo you used is far more suited to the song.

Regards

Col

Hi Fran,
I'd like to have another listen, but can't seem to re-locate your rendition...a little help please
Thanks
Larry

You don't have to spend alot to sound good.