KOrg PA800 problem - Frustrating !!!

Been a long time since I have been on any forums but I have had a frustrating experience and while I know it can and likely will eventually be resolved, knowing that isn't helping me right now. I guess I just need to vent a little...

I bought a PA800 at the end of August. I really liked it, and coming from working for many years happily with the PA80, I like the sounds and the OS of the board.. Unfortunately, just over 3 months later, the touch screen decided to freeze up and won't work at all. I brought it back to the dealer, as there is an "authorized" repair shop in their building. I left it there and received the floor model as a loaner. This was in the first week of December. I wasn't totally comfortable with the loaner, as it has none of my personalized settings, and it isn't "mine", meaning I don't particularly like being responsible for someone else's board, but at the same time, I was grateful that they let me use it. At about the 10 day mark I called and the repair person stated that he didn't "get around to looking at it yet". He told me he'd let me know as soon as possible.

Well, I let it be, as I was busy as the Holidays came and went. Finally, I called yesterday. I get.. "Hang on a minute.. Oh it's done !!. Really ? Glad I called or else I might have never known. "OK, I am going to pick it up on Saturday" I said, and the repair guy stated that it was fine. Weekdays are difficult for me because of the conflict in hours with my job. I go to pick it up today and the desk guy tells me that there is a $ 75 dollar fee. Really ? It should be under warranty. I just bought it in August. He says he has no control over it because the repair shop is a "separate" entity. I remind him that the people who sold me the board had me bring it to this "separate company" that just happens to be in their store. I argued back and forth, but I had already turned the loaner in and tonight I am playing out so at this point I need the board, so.... Under "protest" I decided that I would either have to pay or I was walking out with no keyboard.... I paid and decided that I would try to straighten it out this week when the owner and the repair guy are there. Again, weekdays and logistics ( the store is an hour plus from me ) are a problem making doing this in person very difficult ... Meanwhile I am a tad aggravated because I feel like the buck is being passed. OK, maybe the repair guy is a separate entity, but did the store even tell him that the board had been sold less than 4 months prior at the time he got it ? Maybe it makes no difference, but I have spent probably 20 grand at this place since the late 80s.. I realize that doesn't "entitle" me to anything, but even before this happened I could not help shake the perception that things changed over the years after they expanded as opposed to when they were a small "hole in the wall". It just seems that the service was a good bit more "personal" and the employees were helpful, and more customer friendly.

But great, I got my PA800 back right ? Except that after 90 seconds of use the screen is again locked up. Now I am out several hours of my time, gas money, and to boot I have NO working Keyboard since I sent the loaner back. I got by with my Tyros 2 just fine, as it is my backup board., but truth be told, I'm just so used to the way Korg does things that I struggle a bit with the navigation on the Tyros. Plus... the Organs and the electric guitar sounds on the Tyros do NOT please my ears all that much( personal preference I know )

Here we go again, round 2 and I am wondering how long it is going to be before this is made right. ... Sorry.. I am beside myself and I just HAD to vent a little...

I am really sorry to hear about your bad experience with the dealer authorized service center/and-or the music store where you have made the PA800 and previous purchases.

Is ashamed that good customer service is hard to find this days.

In other topic, I had no one, but 3 different new PA 800s, and none gave me that problem, check that you have the latest OS loaded, I also have a PA 500(touch screen also, no problem so far).

I hope soon you get resolved all those issues favorably, one advise to you would be to make sure you calibrate your touch screen as soon you get it, and of course, make a backup

of the current resources and save all your performances and user styles, in case that you may have a corrupted OS, I would consider reload the the OS and Factory resources just in case,

with the backup previously made, you can reload your user styles, performances, global, etc...I hope this helps.

When you find time, take it back with the $75.00 receipt (you didn't get what you paid for so the $75.00 should be refunded, while you give them back the keyboard - unless you want to pay another $75.00 for the same problem).

Next, get the loaner once more. When you go back to pick up yours (keep loaner in car) - test it for about 30mins before making any decisions!

Just my thoughs on this one. Sounds 'mean', but ... fair I would say.

AJ

All Good suggestions guys. Thank for the responses. I have everything backed up though. All the way back to the beginning of the PA80 too, I still have all of those files as well. I learned the hard way many years ago with computer stuff after having a hard drive go down causing me to lose hours upon hours of recordings/instrument tracks that had I made. Everything gets backed up and I have more than one backup too.

Given how long I had the board I still don't think that I should have had to pay a dime in the first place, but right now the bigger concern is how many trips I'll need to make and hours I will have to spend before this is right.

I had a similarly difficult experience with an early run PSR2000 many years ago, and it took quite a while (months) to resolve, but the dealer ( same one ) did his best to help every step of the way. I don't see that type of commitment quite as much in the early stages today, but the company has grown a good bit and there are many new faces.. The other concern here is that unlike the PSR2000, which was widely known to have some problems very early in it's run, the PA800 is at the end of it's run and my problem seems to be very isolated. After having searched quite intensely, I cannot find a similar incident with it anywhere on the 'net, although the M3 has been known to have similar display issues ( my M3 has worked flawlessly since day one )

I like this board when it is working as much as anything I have ever owned. Ironically, I play it more with no styles or with very minimal backing than I do using the full style mode.

Hi AJ,
great to hear from you again.
Sorry to hear about your Korg.
My screen went too, it went black though. Unfortunately it was out of warranty & I had to replace it.
You did try re loading your os? just in case it was software related ?

I must admit I luved my PA800, my PA3x even moreso.

I swore to myself at the time I'd never buy another korg BUT, currently I've got 2. haahaa

Hi Rikki. Nice to talk with you again. I want to reload the OS, but I cannot even do that because the screen is frozen. It is completely unresponsive. The tech treated it as though it was a mechanical problem, something to do with poor connections or some kind of dust or other substance on contacts for the display, but I have my doubts that this is the issue at all. That would make no sense, unless it was a display model or somehow re-packaged as a new board.

The board has been kept covered when not in use and is in pristine condition and has been taken out of here only a few times, I only play out on a few rare occasions these days. I tend to think it is related to the unit's software.

The other issue is that I was already considering replacing it with a PA3x right before this happened, but every day that the board is out of commission is a day that I cannot put it up for sale and it will continue to lose value. On the other hand, I am at a point where I am beginning to wonder if I will have a "lifetime" of problems with the display on this particular board and I would be somewhat hesitant to sell it anyway because I wouldn't want to pass that on to someone else.

HI AJ,

Is this Alto in Middletown NY? This sounds WAAAY out of character for that store. I have personally had outstanding service from that store. I had a Tyros 2 screen repaired under warranty with no Fee charged and they gave me a loaner as well.

Who were you working with? Chris in keyboards?

Al

Yes it is Al. I haven't been able to deal with Chris directly except over the phone because He wasn't there when I dropped the board off and he wasn't there when I picked it up either, but he did make the loaner arrangement for me. Again it is difficult for me to go there on a weekday when he is there without being off from work and if I do go it is usually in the evening when he is already gone. He has been very good with me in the past, but it feels like an alternate universe inside there on the weekends...

I agree Al, they did very well by me when I had the PSR2000 issue, which was related to computer chips that didn't work properly in some of the early run models. I also had the T2 screen issue but it was well after the warranty and it cost a small fortune to fix ( no fault of Alto's though and I did not ask for a loaner as I got by fine with PA80 and software rig for backup ). . At this point I want this board fixed properly ASAP or I want a new one.. I have had it about 4 and a half months and for the past month and change no board. The loaner was ok but the display on it was a lot less bright for some reason and hard to see. I was also reluctant to load my personal settings which are important to me.

The experience has done nothing for me in regards to wanting a new board. After shelling out big bucks for the T2 repair and now the issues here, I tend to want to go back to an all software rig with a reliable workstation as a midi controller and for it's acoustic sounds ( Motif ES always worked well for that ) , but the main drawback for me of course is the intense work needed to match styles to software sounds. I know can pull it off though because I like doing mainly acoustic sets.

Hi AJ,
do you know if you had the latest o.s. 2.1
http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/products/pa800_soft.html?en
though strangely enough, I think I have 2.2 but not sure where I downloaded it?

You actually do start the process with the keyboard switched off. Might make matters worse, Suppose depends how desperate you are & you would want to check if it nulls some sort of warranty.

I tried it, didn't help. As I said, my screen went dark, but I knew it wasn't totally dead, in certain light I could see shadows of the icons.
I had no choice but to replace.
[quote=Bluezplayer]Hi Rikki. Nice to talk with you again. I want to reload the OS, but I cannot even do that because the screen is frozen. It is completely unresponsive. The tech treated it as though it was a mechanical problem, something to do with poor connections or some kind of dust or other substance on contacts for the display, but I have my doubts that this is the issue at all. That would make no sense, unless it was a display model or somehow re-packaged as a new board.

I have 2.1 Rikki and I would have liked giving the OS thing a shot but at this point I am concerned that there are other issues and I am afraid to try it for fear it will only get worse or make problems for me with the warranty. I spoke with the regular keyboard guy there today ( Chris ) at the store and I am confident that he is going to do his best to make this right. I have worked through him for many years and he has always been top notch. It really is like an "Alternate Universe" there when he and a couple of the other regular crew isn't there though.

I think maybe that's just the growing pains of expanding from what was once a small store that was about the size of a small house to the giant store they have now that is the size of a city block ( along with two other locations that they opened since then )

If it all goes well, I will probably add the extra bucks and upgrade right to a PA3x, or if not... a properly working 800 will more than fit the bill for me.

Hi AJ,
I know what you mean. I had nothing to lose because mine was well and truly out of warranty. Probably safer not to do anything & just take it back to repair centre.

Good luck.

This isn't getting any better any time soon ... Now they want to ship the board out to Korg and let them look at it. I asked if they have any idea what the turn around time is and I can get no answer but based on having do something like this with another Keyboard in the past I am probably looking at several weeks at least.. They offered me the use of the same loaner and again I am uncomfortable taking it. My board is losing value as every day passes by and really all I want to do is be able to sell it, and have full confidence that I am not selling something that is going to break down on someone else. As an alternate, they offered me 1300 trade in on a board I paid 2200 for at the end of August. Totally unacceptable.

I am trying to stay relaxed but this is beginning to try my patience... I really don't know what else I can do to expedite this so I can have a working board that I feel confident selling to someone else... I understand that they no longer want to have the "in house" guy work on it, but whatever their issue is, mine is that I am going to be without my board for a while again, and while I wasn't expecting to get exactly back what I paid for it, I think 10 percent less might have been a reasonable offer, given I had the board for barely over 3 months before it began to malfunction.

Ok ... I guess I jumped the gun. The problem is solved and they have agreed to replace my PA800 with a brand new keyboard. So now I must apologize for being a more than just a bit impatient and admit that I was completely wrong about how this would turn out. I must give many kudos to Alto Music, particularly Chris and Jon Haber, for stepping up again and doing the right thing.
Thanks fellas... Al was 100% spot on !!

Hi AJ,
gee, that's decent of them.

That would actually give you the opportunity of selling the PA800 & upgrading to the pa3x.

The bonus for me PA3x versus PA800 are
the 4 fills, much smoother.
XG drumkits, makes it easier to convert my psr1500 styles across to korg.
Guitar Mode 2, the ability to have both midi notes & guitar mode notes on the same track. Brilliant.

Yes,they already told me that I could upgrade to the PA3x for the
price difference from what I paid on my PA800 to what the PA3x is going for. I'll miss the on board speakers a little and not sure I want to shell out the bucks for the speaker bar just yet, but PA3x it will be.

Hi AJ,
I haven't got the speaker bar yet either. Not sure if I'll actually bother, unless I need to make it more portable.
Sounds quite good running thru my amp & stereo speakers which makes it far from portable haahaa.

Hi Rikki,

I do occasionally play out locally and in most situations the on board speakers are enough to function as monitors. There are even some situations where the on board speakers are sufficient on their own, such as the "deck gigs" I do for a couple of my local neighbors.

I also often run my Tyros 2 output through the PA80 or 800 and leave my main sound system and studio monitors in the home studio off, except when I want to be louder or need to record through my sound card.

Still, there may just be a better solution than spending what they are asking for the speaker bar, even though it does sound rather good on the PA3x in the store. I have seen similar speaker bar ensembles at less than half the cost and I am at least going to give those a look to see how they spec out vs the Korg speaker bar and whether they will fit properly onto the board before I make final decision.

I am looking forward to getting a working Korg arranger once again, although I should clarify that by saying "new model Korg", as I still have the PA80 and after 10+ years it still works as well as it did the day I bought it.

Hi AJ,
so the speaker bar does sound really good?

They didn't have them in stock when I bought my PA3x about 6 months ago.
Haven't checked recently to see if they now have one.
I didn't want to order one, without hearing it first, it's not exactly cheap over here. $500+

It does sound really good but before I consider plunking down the money I want to explore other options as well. It also costs around $500 US Dollars and that is at Alto Music, the company I always dealt with here. The keyboard manager told me that the speaker is a very slow selling item. If it were more reasonably priced, maybe comparable to the Tyros speakers, ( aren't they under $300.00 ?? ) I'd buy it on the spot.

I rarely have to shop much when Alto has given me a quote on something because on the past occasions when when I have checked ( extensively sometimes ) I have found them to almost always be among the best on prices and what can I say,.. they took very good care of me in this matter, and because of that and my past experiences with them, I am not inclined to barter much on their prices anyway. I like that even as they have grown, I found through this situation that the boss is still readily accessible and as soon as he was made aware of what was happening he fixed my issue quickly and decisively. His name is Jon Haber and he has a good thing going on there in his store(s). I told him I hope I'm able to live long enough to spend another 20 grand there. LOL

I'll keep you posted. I may, in the end., decide to get the speaker bar anyway. I'd love to hear from other PA #x owners to get their take on it, including any potential good alternatives or if you did decide to purchase the speaker bar.

Cheers

Hi AJ,
I know of at least a couple of them bought it. Might be best to ask at korg forum. A lot of them don't frequent synthzone.

Get the 3x!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kinda wish I could change the title of this post now... LOL. No longer frustrated at all. I already went and got the PA3x Dave and it is definitely a keeper for me. It is quite a bit advanced from the PA80 that I still have here and at the same time there are enough similarities that it is very easy for me to navigate pretty much everything on it. From past posts I remember thinking that I'm in the minority on this but I always preferred the Korg layout vs Yamaha, Technics or MZ2000 O/S. Some of the styles are similar to the PA80, but Wow... the bass on the styles sounds so much crisper. Korg finally provided the one thing that I always missed from the Yamaha series... I missed having 4 fills and auto fill option in the old PA series boards. The fills also seem to fit better than they did in them older Korg boards.

I'll give it a whirl on the other forum Rikki. I am considering some other options for now, but I may end up getting the speaker bar anyway, in spite of having to overpay, because the thing sounds really good and aesthetically it matches the board perfectly. I have a few different monitoring options up here in the home studio so I have some time to decide.

AMEN, brother! I am in HEAVEN with mine too. It's built solid - feels great - sounds amazing and the flexibility and editing are off the charts.
I always liked the simplicity of the Yamaha OS, but I am used to the way Korg organizes things, and it's easy for me to get around. I am making final tweaks this week, and next week - it goes on the job!
BTW - Staples sells a 16GB USB drive that only sticks out about 1/8" from the slot - you can leave it in and it won't get bumped.
$34 - but worth it for the convenience.
The audio inputs also surprised me with plenty of gain for my iPad/pod for breaks and DJ stuff. The choices are so cool:
live / arranger / MP3-SMF(x2) / and my outboard playlists - all available at once!

I got a couple of those drives off Ebay a year or so ago. They are GREAT!
DonM

I recently picked up this 16 Gb Sandisk Cruzer Fit USB micro stick at Amazon for $19.99.

It pretty much remains always inserted in the USB port at the back of my T4, even while my keyboard is taken in and out of its' case during transport.
It's the same color (black) as the rear of the keyboard and so tiny (1/4" protrusion) that it's hardly noticeable.

In fact if Yamaha ever comes out with a microArranger, because their arrangers come with a USB port vs Sd slot (Korg microArranger),
I think this would make an ideal Yamaha microArranger companion. - Scott

Pretty amazing. I got into using a computer a bit later than some others, but bought my first PC in 1998 and it had 4 GB hard drive. At the time I couldn't imagine why I needed "all that" hard drive capacity.

Liking this PA3x more and more as each hour goes by. I can see me keeping this for a long time ( I still have my first PSR-500 and my PA80 ) Not sure about wanting the micro arranger. I had been thinking of selling off my PA80 and replacing it with one, but I don't really need it. I wish I still had a couple of the mini sized keyboards I had in the 80s. I had a couple of the dept store Casio types as well as a Yamaha PSS480.. Still have the PSS480 but it doesn't work very well any more. Some of the buttons don't function. The Casio's had a few basic rhythms and the PSS480 had 100 They were kind of a precursor to the early arrangers like the PSR500 that came out in the early 90's. 10-15 years ago you could buy them at yard sales for a few bucks, but more and more people are buying them up ..some like the sk-1 for it's very lo-fi sampling capabilities and others like the PSS line because they are rather decent fm synthesizers with parameters that can be manipulated with the addition of circuit bending modifications.

Hey Scott - thanx for the redirect. Yours is a better deal - I'll return the one I got to Staples and get 2 from Amazon!

I have two Casio mini-key arrangers. Well, one is branded Radio Shack but they are identical. Both of them have samplers. Fun to play with.
DonM

Sure Dave, glad I was able to help 'double' your memory pleaure.

Scott

Hi AJ,
wow, congratulations.
The 4 fills are brilliant, aren't they. Just so much smoother.
Don't know how much time you got to spend with style editing / creating in the pa 800, it's brilliant in both PA3x & PA800.
Guitar Mode (styles) is way better in the pa3x.
Being able to export & import complete styles as midifiles is so handy.
Did you get a chance to save any of your PA800 Styles? There's some that have new intro's /endings. Some have same name but are actually a different style. Some don't plain exist any more. I'm sorting thru them at the moment.

Let me know if you do end up with the speaker bar.
[quote=Bluezplayer]

Hi Don,

At least one of the old Radio Shack synths ( Realistic Concertmate MG-1 ) was actually made by Moog. I remember reading that in an article from Harmony Central some years back and then seeing a related Wikipedia article on it. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on one of them, but now they command a fairly high price on Ebay these days. More then I am would want to spend...

Well Rikki, I opted to go with a 32 inch TV type speaker bar ( Vizio 2.1 system ) that cost about 1/5 of the price of the Korg bar. It doesn't fit into the back of the keyboard, but I added an unused x stand to the back of the double x stand where the PA3x and T2 sit here in the home studio and the bar sits on it and works quite well. I am not certain if it sounds as good or maybe even better than the one sold by Korg, but it sounds good enough. I have all of the unedited PA800 and PA80 styles saved. I also have many if not most of the non commercial Korg PA styles that have ever been floating around on the net, including some decent Yamaha to Korg conversions. I haven't tried any style building or conversions with the 3x yet, but once I get it loaded up the way I like I will.

I tried a few of the TV bars when they first showed up too. I like the ones with a wireless subwoofer! Mmmmm nice

I like this a lot Dave. I considered one with a separate subwoofer too. This one works pretty well. I think it sounds as least as good as the built in speakers did on the PA800, maybe better, and it is plenty loud ( and clean ). I like that this one has an FM radio. I have a couple of the walmart type fm transmitters and a few MP3 players so I can play MP3s through it via the FM radio as well.

Mine says Concertmate 650. It's pretty rinky-dink, but the sampler is fun.
DonM

Hi AJ,
that's an interesting idea. Might keep it in mind

You'll luv the style creation functions on the PA3X once you get started.
Good that you kept a copy of your PA800 styles. Some of them are definately missing on the PA3X. Unfortunately never had anything to do with the PA80.