PA3x came in the door at 9am this morning!

So far ... I love it. It's built solid, looks fantastic and feels wonderful. I still have to address the monitoring situation, as I doubt that I'm a PAas candidate, but I'm taking my time on that decision. The key feel on the 76 key model is really great - I haven't tried the 61, but if they are the same ... I might be returning this one. I don't need the internal hard drive or motorized tilt screen, so I'd rather cut down on size and weight.....more about that later.
I have a job tonight that will likely be my last with the s910, so if anyone wants a cherry piece with a great soft case and better than full warrentee .... check the "for sale" section.

I'll have more time to fiddle with this tomorrow and I'll report back, but so far - my initial reaction is very favorable. It's soooooo sexy and sleek.

Congratulations!!!

That's pretty cool Dave...a keyboard that delivers itself!

Now, if it can also get to the gigs on it's own, we will definitely have a winner, and Yamaha, Ketron and Roland will be scrambling to add such a neat feature to their arrangers.

Seriously, congratulations on your new gigging tool (even if you still have to lug it around), and have a very Merry Christmas

Ian

"Well done, Dave!", says I, drooling over here in the corner.

Dave, I would love to hear your opinion on the differences between the Pa3x and the Pa800 since you now know both keyboards.

John C.

Congratulations Dave,
I really luv mine. Haven't tried PA3X 76 note, but the 61 note version , the keys feel different to the PA800 , better.
Certainly a solid little beast.

UD,

How can you do that, buy a KB from the shop and then if you don't think it's just what you want take it back, are your dealers
numpties, in the UK we go in the shop, play it and then take it away, deal done. What happens if you damge it on your first gig??

UD just take your time about keeping it, we can all wait.

All the best with your lastest....... now the fun begins!

UD
Congrats. That was my second choice when I got the Audya. A fine machine to be sure.
Bernie

Congratulations for your new Keyboard!!

Uncle Dave, I´m also interested in PA3X but never played a Korg arranger (long history) and have a curiosity: Does the PA3X have in all their styles an ending like the Yamaha´s ending 1??

If not, what could be a work around?

Thanks and Enjoy your PA3X
Jo

My friend Juan Morales, purchased one PA3X (76) from Frankie and he is also a happy camper...

He is not a member for now, he is fine tuning his English.

Congrats UD. I knew you'd not stray too long from the PA. I still love my 800 and for over 3 years now. In fact, I just bought another 'cause I wear them out

Tony ... have you NEVER returned an item after you have brought it home and tried it out??? ...
Dave did not say he was using the new KB on a gig, and I'm SURE that if the unit was damaged in any way he would not be returning it ...
BTW ... this is what full warrantees and guarantees are all about - "If for ANY REASON you do not like it, take it back" ...

I really like a lot of the Korg styles, I hope this works for you.

YIKES! 1st major anomaly detected ....
I'm perfectly willing to read the manual, but I haven't yet, and I found a VERY annoying paradigm that I hope is adjustable.
When using the drums without accompaniment, and playing right hand piano and left hand bass .... all is well UNTIL you trigger an ending pattern - it shuts OFF the left hand! Hmmmmmmm...... anyone ever hear of this? I am playing real time sounds, and I can't afford to have the drummer chase the bass player out of the room before we end the tune! C'mon Korg ..... what gives? Is that even practical in a typical arranger style of play???
(I'm almost positive this can be avoided, but I need to study further.)

Comparing to Yamaha - the intros and endings are similar in approach, but the Korg gives the option of triggering any of the 4 fill3 while staying on the A-B-C-D section of the arrangement. You have the option of triggering with the variation button, or a dedicated fill button.
The lyrics and score window is a bit more labored than the Yamaha, but again, to be fair - I haven't read much of the book - maybe there are adjustable parameters that I need to find.
For now - I LOVE the sound, I LOVE the feel, and I LOVE the layout. The drums are so real sounding ( as Korg usually is, but even MORE so )
If I find a perfect=fit case I won't even mind the extra few keys that much. The unit is just under 47" long but only 14" deep - most 76 key cases are over 50" x 18". Way too sloppy and wasteful for me.

I'll check back again, but I have no more playtime tonight - it's a school night. yawn ........


...and Tony - the dealer offers a return policy. It's standard practice with most on-line companies I deal with... in fact ALL of them, so far.

[quote=
When using the drums without accompaniment, and playing right hand piano and left hand bass .... all is well UNTIL you trigger an ending pattern - it shuts OFF the left hand! Hmmmmmmm......

Congratulations on buying the Pa3x it looks like my next baby down the road, although I'm very happy with the G70. What's the bass sound like?
I use the manual bass on my G70 when playing with a live trio, at this stage the accompaniment is not active and I am unable to activate the endings nor do I want to use them with a live setup around me.
If you dont want to use the endings I expect you can disable that section and just do a live ending.

Sounds like its different in the USA, here in the UK if the box is open, then no one would buy it as new, not even a shop demo model, a shop demo with an opened box would be discounted. I wouldn't want a new Kb that someone had their dirty old fingers running over,picking their nose and smelling of a smokey old house, know what I mean Tony... Paying £3500 for a Pa3x I want it new out the box, the first to open it, anyway I might want to film the box been opened. How long is it since you bought a new Kb Tony. Thomann use the letter "B" which means it's been returned and is cheaper. Who pays for the PP.


Regards

Tony

I think this may well be a sign of the times Pa3x isn't selling so the dealers are going to any lenghts to get a sale.
And that means letting people try it at home and make their minds up after, jolly de!

Tony

No, it's not specific to Korg. It's pretty much standard practice for the big online stores, such as Sweetwater and Musician's Friend, regardless of brand. If they resell a returned unit, it is marked as such and discounted.
Stores like Frank's Audioworks generally don't do this, BUT, they will often sell it for less than the MSRP in the first place.
Apparently, there is plenty of room between MSRP and cost for the big dealers to do this and not lose money.
I think the number of customers who actually do this is very small though.
DonM

Thanks Don,

That explains it all.

"I think the number of customers who actually do this is very small though"

Bet the dealers don't really like it all the same, its a bit messy.


Hope you are keeping well.

Regards

Tony

Tony ... fortunately, I haven't found the need or desire to purchase a new KB in many years, but I did have a very recent experience with a mixer that I purchased, took home and tested out for 2 days and returned it, only saying it did not satisfy my needs ... but then, I don't pick my nose and no one in the house smokes, so maybe they made an exception ...

Nice one Tony, you are a clean liver, that's good to see.

Everybody else is keeping silent, maybe they do


Regards

Tony

It is the same here in Canada as in the UK, Tony, and probably the same for most places, unless one can come to some agreement with the seller.

If a keyboard is taken out and "handled" (not necessarily at a gig) and is returned, it cannot be sold as "new in the box", because, in reality it is not.

Sometimes dealers who are anxious (or, perhaps, in the PA3X's case, desperate) to sell an instrument, they will over look the restocking fee to preferred clients, but, they shouldn't try to pass off an opened and used instrument as new, and it should be marked that way, and discounted accordingly.

I sense a real desperation in selling the PA3X instruments...I am told that several were returned to dealers here in Canada because the buyer wasn't quite satisfied with the product.

So, I'd suggest anyone buying these instruments, to make sure that it is actually "new", and if not, ask for the proper discount.

Ian

Think you are right Ian don't think the Pa3x is doing too well in the UK, not seen any good demos either, there are more demos of the Audya certainly more of T4.

Tony

It's not that it is a "bad" instrument, Tony, the PA3X appears to be a fine arranger, but it's launch was handled very poorly, and many dealers were kept waiting...as were customers, some of whom ended up buying a different brand.

Ian

Tony,
As I said - most online dealers offer a 100% satisfaction policy. They offer a return - some with a fee, some without. Nothing was even said about what they do with a unit after it's returned, but as a consumer, buying online - I reserve the right to evaluate in my own hands and take the option to return if I so choose. It would be unethical to sell a returned unit as brand new, unless it was discounted and labeled as such. My only reason to return this unit would only possibly be if the 61 key model is identical in key feel, but I doubt it is. I'd have to play them side by side before I made a change.

Now, on to my small speed bump with style play - I notice that only a few patterns shut the LH sound off during the "ending", and it seems like it's specific to the 1st ending. I'll have to do some digging to see what parameters might be available to disable this annoying feature, and I sure hope I find one - the drums are SO good in this piece, and it'd be a shame if I just lost the ability to trigger a LH sound during an ending ... with or without an arranger playing.

Like many Korgs in the past - the learning curve almost never ends, but it almost always does what you need it too, if you can weed your way through the OS. The front panel button layout is so logical and easy to reach, and the sounds are blowing me away - I hope I can find that correction soon. I'd love to start using this!

Personally, I hope no one in my area starts playing it, so I can stand out from the rest! lol

1-The PA3x is selling very well here in the US. The issue is the wait. Most of the dealers have back orders. It look like to me that Korg is giving priority in manufacturing to the Kronos, that is selling 10 to 1 compare to the PA3x.

If you go to korgforums.com you will find that the big complaint is the long time that people has been waiting for delivery of the PA3x. Here in my town, 3 Guitar Center and 2 Sam Ash stores are still waiting for their slot assignments.

Paint it yellow and wear Donny's chicken hat....you will stand out!!!!

Hi Uncle Dave,
I normally just play in arranger mode,
the settings you're using to play bass l/h , melody r/h

are you using the "manual bass" to acheive this ? with Memory & Bass Inversion buttons set to OFF.

I've tried a couple of dozen styles, and I can play bass thru ending 1 using the above setting.

What I did notice though, I accidently turned on the "lower" Chord Scan button, which automatically turned off "Manual Bass" hence I lost bass, is it possible that this may be happening to you.

Just name a couple of styles that aren't working for you & I can check mine.
[quote=Uncle Dave]


Now, on to my small speed bump with style play - I notice that only a few patterns shut the LH sound off during the "ending", and it seems like it's specific to the 1st ending. I'll have to do some digging to see what parameters might be available to disable this annoying feature, and I sure hope I find one - the drums are SO good in this piece, and it'd be a shame if I just lost the ability to trigger a LH sound during an ending ... with or without an arranger playing.

Dave,
you will be pleasantly surprised when you play the 61 key model. The keys are just as good as on the 76 key version.

A Korg keyboard truly sells only after you begin to understand the many options that it offers. Unlike the other major brand keyboards it does not stand out because of a particular sounds or some inflated hype. After spending a few weeks with my Pa800 I realized the keyboard’s potential -- it took me much longer to understand and execute the potentials.

I sold all my Yamaha keyboards and my beloved Kn7000 because I could not reach the same freedom and almost perfection as I am doing with my Pa800. Please do not feel I am putting Down Yamaha because I feel they make one of the best keyboards available -- in fact I am looking to add S 910 to my collection.
I guess I see Korg Pa3x or the Pa800 as a musicians instrument. My Pa800 is there when and where I need it. I sometimes feel it is reading my mind.

John C.

George said:

"Dave,
you will be pleasantly surprised when you play the 61 key model. The keys are just as good as on the 76 key version."


Thanx George - I'd love to at least try one before my trial period is up, but I must say .... I'm getting used to the footprint on this model. It's pretty sleek for 76 keys.

Well .... I got one here with your name on it!!!!! C'mon up for the Mummers parade on New Years Day !

I see your point. As my good SZ friend Tye (Shade of Pale) says "If you want instant gratification, get a Yamaha."

Hi Rikki,
I can't figure out how to lock a constant bass sound into the Manual bass section without having it change to each new style's chosen bass instrument, so I always use the lower sound. I only use one manual bass tone, and I hate having it change if I switch patterns in the middle of a song. (which I do ALOT).
I think one of the patterns at fault was Bossanova in the 1st ending. The 2nd and 3rd endings were fine ... a puzzlement!

When I'm in that manual mode, I use the UPPER chord scanning so my RH triggers the harmonizer(with the arr off, of course) - maybe the ending switched the chord scanning - I didn't notice, but that's one thing to check out tonite! Thanx for the suggestion.

BTW - I'd LOVE to be able to use that manual bass button the way I like because it would be a seamless transition between arranger and manual on the fly. With the lower sound, it's possible to have manual AND arranger bass play simultaneously if you're sloppy. (which I RARELY am, but it happens if I get distracted by a pretty redhead ...)

Yup - they do sound good and work easy right out of the box, but they fall a little short in deep editing and voice processing. The harmonizer is the most important piece of gear I carry, so I'll never be able to use a Yamaha without a dedicated unit.

I have nothing but good feelings about this new Korg - I scaled down my larger QSC K-12s to the K-8s and I see how I like that option, but most of the time, I'll be using the Bose compact. Just not sure of how my lack of "in my face" monitors will affect me. I've always had good, solid speakers in my keyboards till the s910 .... since I can hardly hear them at an acceptable volume, I may as well be carrying something else anyway, right?

The 910 was a good "filler" until the 3x came out ... just what I thought it would be in may arsenal.

Hello PA3X owners,
Just like to know if this keyboard can read or guess chords from midifiles and diplay it on the screen like the Roland G&E series?
Best regards
Jimmy

No......

Dave, please email me with pricing and shipping.

My Kn7000 is gone – only one keyboard left -- I made a full commitment.

John. C.

Hi Uncle Dave,
not sure if you can lock manual bass sound in.

I can't even duplicate turning Upper Chord Scan on, without accompinament playing.

Me personally, if I needed the styles to suit, I'd copy them into a favourite slot, Mute the Accomp.Icon. Change Bass sound on Style Play page & write it as a current style setting.
(You don't actually have to change each of the bass style tracks within the style.) Takes a minute or 2 per style, and it's setup for exactly what you need.

You can't overwrite a factory style setting without probably turning off some sort of protection setting, apart from which, you probably wouldn't want to anyway.

I came across a nice demo "TC-Helicon vocal effects in the Korg PA3X".

Here is a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQ3K3hzO8E&feature=related

Congratulations!

I enjoyed that demo very much....

Thanks
Ron

Hey George - is it EXACTLY the same, or just very good? I've come to really like the feel of the 76, and I'd hate to move backwards, but I'm still on the fence about that extra 8 lbs and 6 inches or so. Also - I STILL can't find the size of the included hard drive ... what will I give up, storage-wise?
Thanx,
Dave

Rikki - I owe you a long reply very soon - I've not tested all your advice out yet, but I will! (soon!)
d

Dave, get one of each, then sell me the one you decide not to keep. At a huge discount of course. Maybe half price. Merry Christmas.
DonM

Anybody??

I'll let you know in a few days, Jo!
DonM

Thanks DonM
I actually have a Tyros4, previusly I purchased an Audya but it performed erratically so I returned it.
The Tyros4 has excellent solo sounds (I also have the premium saxes and trombones) but I still don´t like the drums, basses and the too repetitive and sterile styles.
The problem is that I use so much the ending 1 (since Tyros, PSR3000, Tyros2 and now Tyros4). I know that all the PA3X styles can be edited, but doing so in over 200 styles I could use, and in a hurry isn´t an easy task.
Thanks again and hope you could help me
Regards
Jo

UD,
I have only had the 61 key models and they are the same semi weighted keys as the 76 key model according to the people I've spoken to at Korg.

JO, here's what the manual says:

Note: Ending 1 plays a short sequence with different chords, while
Ending 2 plays on the latest recognized chord. Ending 3 starts
immediately, and is just two measures long.

Hope this helps.
DonM

Don
Yes, I already know it. The question is how is ending 3: A shot, a holding chord, a short frase, etc.
I´m looking for the simplest ending like yamaha´s ending 1: a simple chord hold (chords and bass, drums is kick and cymbal on first beat)
Is ending 3 on korg like this?
Jo

Breaking news - I found out how big the hard drive is - it's 160GB. That just may be enough to sway me into keeping this 76 model. The 61 will give me more portability, but will only save me about $150 after I pay to ship this one back and get charged back for the free shipping TO me. I'm really going in circles about this - I drop the octave of my piano hand which renders everything below the lowest C or B almost useless anyway, so I'm just not sure if I want the extra real estate just for the hard drive. ( with USB sticks, it's almost a waste )
Anyone have thoughts on this? Heeeeeelp.......

Well I have the Tyros 4 and I don't need any more keys OR the hard drive LOL I prefer to record directly to the USB stick. That said IF Yamaha had 8 Track audio Recording instead of two I would go for the Hard drive. Also if Samples could be loaded from the HD I would prefer one as well.

BTW I had a PA2x for about 4 months and sold it for the Tyros 3. I bought the Korg for the wrong reasons.

Dave,

If I were in your shoes, I would go with the portability, sell the 76 to Don Mason and I think you'll be more than satisfied with the results.

Good Luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary

Hi Jose,
in most instances ending 3 is a short simple phrase, not a stop chord.
That would be the easist pattern to create if required.

Hi,
for anyone who might be interested in korg style structure , here goes.
Onboard styles are set up in a particular way, but for those who may want to create user styles, and I don't necessarily mean from scratch, styles can be created from mix n matching onboard style tracks, you can even copy "pad" tracks into a style & vice versa.
All the style parts in the korg can be up to 32 bars long, including the fills.
One main difference between between fills, intro's & endings is, they only contain 2 cv's. ie one for maj. intro's( cv1) and one for min. intro's ( cv2)
wheras variations can have up to 6 cv's .
Another interesting thing is, if you tap an intro/ending/ fill twice, it will keep looping, just like a variation.
With fills , you can also set which variation they will go to.
ie you could set fill 1 to automatically toggle between vari 1 & vari 3, or work it's way up through the variations, there's about 14 settings to choose from, for each of the fills. ( or you can just leave it to off, and it does it's own thing)

Also, you can actually have a different time signature & tempo's in each of the style parts ie if you wanted to do a xmas medley,you could have variation 1 & 2 & fill 1&2, as 3/4 , whilst vari 3 & 4 are in 4/4.

There's actualy nothing stopping you from using a fill spot to create additional intro's, or an intro spot to create additional fills.

With the factory intro's they're set up a particular way, ie intro 1 has a chord progression built in, it's the fanciest of the 3. Intro 2, you actually play your own chord progression, & fill 3 , is a Count in.
That's the way the factory styles are set up.
But, again , you can have whatever you like.
You could have 3 fancy intro's with built in chord progression.
You could have 3 where you play your own chord progression. or you coulld have 3 count in's if that's all you wanted.
Inoticed over on the korg forums, a number of members were under the impression that the intro types were set ie you have to have a count in on intro 3. not the case.

Also your major ( cv1) & minor intro ( cv2) don't actually have to be the same length. They do have to use the same instruments, though. Intro 1 maj ( cv1) could be 8 bars, intro 1 ( cv2 ) min. might only be 2 bars.

Hell Dave you’re like the wife and shoes, just puts us out of our misery and send the guy the cheque, most people would be glad to play and own either, BTW Orla have a nice new KB, maybe that would turn your head or have it spinning.
Have a nice Xmas with your new toy.

Regards
Tony

Uncle Dave.
I am thinking of getting the Pa3x. My thoughts are for the difference in money I am going to go with the 76 keys. I found this info on a Korg forum.
Keyboard:
61-semi-weighted keys with velocity and aftertouch

76 semi-weighted keys with velocity and aftertouch

Hard Disk / Mass Storage
Standard 4 GB memory USB

Optional 2.5" SATA Hard Disk Driver (61-key)

Standard internal 2.5" SATA Hard Disk Drive (76-key)



Display
Pa3X 61: Resolution: 320 x 240 pixels - TFT Color TouchView Graphic Touch Screen;

Pa3X 76: Motorized Tilt Display - Resolution: 320 x 240 pixels - TFT Color TouchView Graphic Touch Screen


Dimensions (W x D x H)
980 x 366 x 145 mm / 38.58 x 14.41 x 5.71 inch without music stand (61);

1192 x 366 x 145 mm / 46.93 x 14.41 x 5.71 inch without music stand and with the display fully lowered (76)

Weight
14.7 kg / 32.4 lbs (61); 17.5 kg / 38.58lbs (76)
Its only a matter of 6 Lbs. Hope this helps. RC

Dave ...remember the good old days....when you were smarter

Keep the 76 key model...you already know it feels good (fact)..you have the extended range of the keys for left hand bass playing (low E)..The 76 key model gives you the extra features...hard drive etc...things you know would benefit you..


I think DonM would also be happy with the 76 model...with a smaller footprint than even a Tyros4......76 keys still rule

They finally make a "professional looking" keyboard ..and we want to compromise it already...stay with the better model...

Only six pounds and eight inches difference . . . to old men and pregnant women, that's a lot!
DonM

Wanting the smaller footprint is not a compromise for me ... It might just be more important in the tight situations I sometimes play. The only thing hat would make this decision easier will be if the keys are not the same. George has said they feel the same, and while I trust his word ... I'd still have to try it for myself ... Just in case. The hard drive is something that can be substituted with a few USB sticks, and I don't really like the tilt screen anyway .... Just one more motor to break. I'm trying to make this decision based on past playing experiences, and its been years and years since I had a 76 key model I liked. (Yamaha 9000pro).

I'll put this out there for anyone interested - considering what I'll loose in return shipping, I'd need $3675 to recoup my cost including the slim Gator case that fits like a glove and has wheels. I'll pay the shipping to contiguous US, and I'll leave the 300+ CD-G karaoke files on the hard drive for you. These files are all mega hits and popular in many genres.
All I need to convince me is the grantee that the key feel is the same as the 76. Korgs site has had some anomalies regarding these models .... Even the size is misquoted in some posts. The width of the 76 is just under 47". A very trim 76, indeed.

I just think I'll always be a 61 kind of guy.

I just measured the case and tried to fit it in the back of my car (width-ways) - NO GO, soooo.....
it's going back. Unless someone here wants it as posted in the "For Sale" section. I will curse myself (and Fran) every time I try to load it in the car. I'm not ready to loose another seat to slide it in long-ways.
So, my mind is made up, and I'm starting the packing procedure tomorrow.

Just a FYI - it comes with additional software that loads 2 user banks with world patterns and real drums.
Overall, the drums in this unit sound AMAZING - even better then I remember.

Thanx for everyone's input - I guess I'll just have to play the waiting game now, and switch over whenever the new one arrives.

UD, how do you load in the .kar files? Do you transfer them to a stick from a CD? Do they sound exactly like through a Kar machine, just curious. Currently, I can't afford your board or I'd buy it.

OH UD,

Have I missed something here or am I so bored I didn't read something earlier correctly, have you only just found out it won't go in your car would it not have been better to measure the car first, anyway I thought you guys all have big cars, it's taken us a lot tosh to get to this point, never mind we did it all like one big family, we’ve been hanging on your every word, have you ever thought of changing your car to a 76 note one. Come to think of it HD what would a 76 note car look like, a Hummer???

Tony BEEP BEEP

Tony, the keyboard will fit, but all the cases for it have an extra 5-6 inches for wheels and that is the difference. Grrrrr
My Ford Windstar seats 7 and all my gear fits behind the rear seat. That's part of the plan .... it has to fit.
****
Zuki - the Karaoke files live on the hard drive will all the other MP3 and smf files - you simply select and hit play. If you need the lyrics - you push the lyrics button. they are the professional audio CD-g files that you hear in the clubs.
The transfer was easy on the Korg - the hard drive mounts to my Mac with a USB cable and then, you drag and drop either direction. It's pretty smooth. If you wanted to, you could make a USB stick transfer too.

UD,

I think ergonomically the Pa3x is the best Kb on the market, it looks the part, real quality sliders and knobs, there is nothing comes anywhere near to it. I have an Audya as you know sit the two side by side and the Audya looks like a load of 10 year olds in school have put it together, people got so blown away with the sound they never looked at the product. I have not had a chance to play the Pa3x yet but I will in the New Year. The Audya is far too big for its boots, if you think the Pa3x is a lump and too long then dream on David. Ketron have not got the in-house technology to put together anything like the Pa3x and that’s the end of it. It just sound very good, close your eyes whilst you are playing the Audya, it’s like making love to an old women.

Have a nice Christmas, BTW are you doing the two coconuts thing when you have had a few to drink?

Thanks UD. Also, when recording, is it possible to overdub (music first, vocals afterwards) just on the PA3X itself? This way, I could unload my Boss 900CD.

Zuki,
You cand work around this if you re ord a midi sequence and play THAT back as you record your voice, but you can't add a track whilr an Audio file is being played. At least i don't THINK you can .... I still have much to learn about this beast.