Lionstracs Groove X6 Video Demo

Ok guys, I've got to admit that up until now, I haven't shown much interest in Liontracs keyboards,
but I just discovered this recent video demo of the Groove X6 in what I assume was played in auto accompaniment style mode,
and I'm pretty impressed with the keyboard's 'live' sound, styles showcased (esp the Country (4:19) & R&B (6:00) ones), and cool sliders & lighted buttons.
Does anybody here own one? How does the Groove model differ from the Media Station model?
Is its Windows OS stable and the keyboard reliably gig worthy on its own? What's the street price for the X6?
Thanks. - Scott

Stop it Scott, you are not going to buy one, anyway you only have one left hand, this guys got two, one to play left hand and the other the sliders, go onto the MS site and wade through all the different models they make, in three or four different colors. You will be spoilt for choice.

I have been using the MediaStation on my long duration gigs...so I can leave it set up on stage..It has been working great with my band use...with 2 on board mic inputs, better than average Giga sounds, and the best media player..all around....

I do not use styles or arranger with the band..

I am using the newest OS including the updated Linux ( Not Windows Scott)..the improvements with the Giga GM map and other features are great...What is not so great....twice over the last few months..It did not boot up and I needed a keypad to type a command (who carries one?)...it was a show stopper till I had a customer get a keypad for me to use....

Last Wed night it was a show stopper again..this time it booted up ..froze, and would not boot up again...I even had a keypad..and it did not help...Most likely I will need to re install the OS again....

It is now off line for gigging and will stay in the studio...I like what it does well...but can't depend on it anymore (till a update is released)..

I won't leave my G70 on stage, so it is like all one nighters now...

Scott, that intro at 6:00 and the outro at the end of the tune are straight lifts of a Korg gospel style that's been around for years. It's been tweaked a bit - for the worse, IMO. Two thumbs down from me.

Aw, Fran ... anyone that wants it bad enough to lift that coffin deserves to own it! C'mon .. no one wants that old relic anyway!

Fran,
That is really a shame to hear that,
as for the first time now, with this latest Groove X6 demo, I was pretty impressed. That said, what exactly is the difference between the MediaStation & Groove X6? Is The Groove X6 a newer (improved?) Lionstracs model?

124,
Thanks for the heads up about that.
Does the Groove X6 include styles of its own,
or must they all be imported from other keyboards,vor created from scratch?
What is the difference between it and the Media station?

Hi Fran
Do you have installed the OS 5.1?
On OS 5.1 the kernel startup always without PS2 keyboard confirmation.
Anyway, you have to turn OFF normally and not remove the power for turn off, or some system files can be corrupted.
Maybe there is starting and the Fdisk is checking and fixing the files on your HD but you can not see the log untill is finished ( depend on the size of the HD, some time need also 15-20 minute for the Check disk untill then booting normally)

Soon we release the OS 5.3, with the new Wine/windows Realtime version, where no more drop outs on big ASIO/VST.
We have fixed the Wondows OS for the www.garritan.com library.
here some example:
The best ASIO Piano steinway: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/rack2U/steinwayASIO.jpeg

The Personal Orchestra: http://www.lionstracs.com/demo/groove/3GarritanOrchestra.jpeg

regards

About 75% of styles on a keyboard are the same on all manufactures boards, just tweaked to make use of the particular boards sounds and features. (If you think about it, most are designed for a certain selection of songs, so there will never be too much variation)

Bill

Time alone will tell if any other KB manufacturer is going to go this way, I doubt it. This sound hellish complex for someone who just wants to plug a KB in and play music, it sound like an awful complex new motor car with no keys to get in it and start it up. It may turn out to be the best sounding and most flexible KB in the World but in the end you need people to buy them in some quantity to make more. It’s a fundamental part of being in business, I don't see it happening. Let’s wait and see what the head count is next year perhaps when all the software and hardware is working right. Looks like there are only a few in the USA, and just 2 SZers, one on the floor performance shrouded in mystery and the others got a mind of its own. Just one other point the MS has a PC motherboard ASUS or similar, I change my PC every two years because they are either out of date, slow and prime after two years of going on the blink, and they usually crash just when you don’t expect them too. I might well be totally wrong we will see. PC don't like being bumped around in the back of cars either, laptops are made that way.

Tony

Hi Dom, Yes I have been running 5.1...I am getting several different error notes ..a kernal problem was one and some ms errors...

I installed a new Barracuda 1 terrabyte HD when I installed 5.1...and it worked fine for a few months...I tried to re install the 5.1 OS again and I am getting "failed to remove old files and must be removed manually"

I replaced the HD with the old 250 g drive running 5.0 , and everything works..including B4 and arranger Live (Problem on the Barracuda running 5.1)

I will wait till 5.3 and hopefully will be able to re-format the Barracuda drive..

Dom I will try and Skype you...soon, Thanks

Scott,

Is this what you want!! http://www.openlabs.com/nekoxxl.html not to be played through a single speaker please and a snip at $6000
Look at the quality of the finished product. And for Fran if it locks up the qwerty is built in.

Scott when playing the Neko the baseball cap needs to be on with the peek at the back.

Maybe Christmas

Does changing RH sound require moving 2 sliders instead of pressing a single button?

Hi,

Don't know but sure its fully programmeable or at least it should be.

Tony

Yes, that's true to some extent. But that intro and outro are just a straight across copy of an at least 12 year old Korg style. And whoever tweaked it needs a pair of ears, or they were having a laugh. Haven't Lionstracs got any people to produce original content? Apart from that, I wouldn't touch an X6 with a 10' bargepole based on that demo.

The MS and Groove models have a QWERTY keyboard on the touch screen..after boot up..

In Europe they use the sliders for volumes..controlling the combination sounds (8 sounds at the same time)...Try that on a Tyros 4

And...you can use any high quality VST's in the combination mode...and play two hand chords with a sustain pedal....and....have no drop outs (256 polyphonic)..

The above atributes have no competition....


And when we (MS owners) complain about something...we know that any modification can be altered via software updates, and less we forget...we can talk directly to the "Bossman".....That paragraph can never be stated with any other company


The idea ..to use your favorite styles (from other brands) is a plus..not a negative.....If you are not interested in the benefits of an "open" keyboard....pass on it, just buy another re packaged keyboard...just like you have done for ever

Fran,

I really have no doubt when they get it right I will be mind blowing. However, even with all the features you quote, you do need to be able to turn it on and it boot up. Without that you ain't going nowhere. I was going to buy one but I will wait until they get all the problems sorted out first. It's obvious from Dom's reply they are still working on software versions.

Regards

Tony

Tony, who is to say...maybe my boot up fault may be the HD I added..a Barracuda 1 terrabyte drive..I have replaced the Barracuda with my original 250g drive and it has the 5.0 OS on it...Works fine...


The updates are always being worked on...Linux is an open OS and folks are always coming up with great ideas to use with Linux..and I for one will hope Lionstracs always will continue to develope new and improved ideas......for me this is half the fun of owning a MS..

I was going to raffle off the MS....but remembered Russ's raffle failure

mmmm..this can BE also the cause of your HD failure..
Some time I had try also to test some different HD models, like the Western Digital or Seagate and some after hours of working I get crash system too.

In this week I made a lot of hardware test, to find a good mainboard for the Groove XR Extreme, where on current mainboard model will not support the SSD Sata600 or HD with 10.000 Rpm.
This is the SSD that I like to use as bootstrap:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-solid-3-sata-iii-2-5-ssd.html

I TOUGH that the problem was from my Linux kernel, every time that I try to install the OS I get errors and corrupted my USB stick OS installer...
then I buy the new mainboard generation AM3+:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=880GMH/U3S3
This support up to 32Gb Ram, 8 Core and Sata600.
Installed the SSD Solid3 to the Sata600 connector and my OS was installed perfect...booting to the desktop in about 15 seconds!

Fran, may be there the OS is working good, BUT may be the BIOS of your mainboarn NOT full support your Barracuda driver.
You THINK that is working because booting and play the keyboard, but we dont have the warranty that the mainboard BIOS communicate always correct with the kernel.
In fact the all mainboards manufacture release new BIOS firmware for fix the bugs.

about ouw OS, will be NEVER completed, we continue always update and update of new features and bugfix.
when I stopping the OS mean that I'm not interested anymore to work in this field.
Or...when I see Microsoft or Apple to release the ultimate OS and stopping the developement, then I stop and release the Last OS too..:)

Tony, I'm not the only manufacture that use one PC inside the keyboards...Oasys..Kronos..Wersi..crumar mojo, Hamichord, Openlabs, Music Computing and Much much more other company.
the difference is that we use full Linux OS and then other Windows with only one App ASIO running.

Connecting some standard USB controllers in one PC is simple and cheap, but try then to configure and make working multiple midi controller to different apps on the same time if you are able.

Anyway, I'm not here to sell you nothing, you can buy what you like.
If you still are looking for one Arranger, the Lionstracs, Oasys, Kronos, Fantom, Motif, Jupiter, Nord stage.....are NOT for you.
Arranger= NO sales= No OS arranger developement
workstation= full sales= full new OS workstation developement

Enjoy what you play.
regards

Dom: What's the difference between the Mediastation and the Groove X6,
where can I purchase one in the US, and how much do each of them cost in US Dollars?
Thanks. - Scott

Yesterday I tried the vArranger software on the MediaStation on witch I have installed Windows 7 on it.

It's a very cool experimentation !
I can decide witch button and slider to control all the features of the arranger.

Domenik, can a MS user install 2 partitions on it's MS HD, one with your LINUX OS and one with Windows?

I will do a small video when everything will be nice

Scott,

In the UK if you go to buy a Rolls Royce and you ask the price, you can't afford to buy one. Same with the MS,
in fact I have looked like you for a price on the WWW for a MS and I can't find it anywhwere.

Tony

The MediaStation will be back on stage this Wed...After replacing the Barracuda HD with the previous HD...the MS has tested great the last couple of days...

So I will depend on the MS again..It is great being able to leave the MS on stage for the next two months, instead of fighting thru the Crab Trap crowd 3 times a week (set up)..

The all in one features..mics, effects, media player and Vst's..are perfect as a band instrument...

Still waiting for an answer. Anyone?!

Frankie is a distributor...call him for your answers..

Regardless of where the styles came from (preset or conversion).., this is probably the best demo put out using a Lionstracs keyboard. The person in this demo clearly knows their way around the instrument, and has the chops to put it to use.

It's not happening over night.., but open systems will eventually be common keyboards. The Korg Kronos is now streaming from a drive and look how reasonable the price is for the 61 key model. Open Source keyboards are the future. Keep in mind what generation will be using them too.

open keyboards are only in the future , they are certainly not the future for keyboards. There will always be two types of musicians :

Those that are mostly centred on playing mastering their skills as a musician who want to focus 90% of their time making music and those people who love to play with technology through the medium of music who spend 90% just playing with the technology.

So there will always be a market for companies that bundle all the tools a musician needs to make music in an easy to use intuitive closed system .

I have yet to see or hear anyone produce a piece of music worth a lick on an 'open keyboard ' That could not be produced on a so called closed one just as easily.

The wersi/liontracs and openlabs products have been arond for a good while now . I would love to know the stats for their combined sales compared to the single sales figures of the yamaha motif (original version ).

Hi Scott,

Found it for you http://www.lionstracs-bochum.de/ the X6 is $9580 you may need to take out a second mortgage on you property to buy one, never mind young man. Not recommended for old people, a bit like buying long playing records.

Tony

Could not agree more, perhaps a closed KB would perform better Spalding, certainly out of the box, that's the magic phrase, "OUT OF THE BOX", not 5 years later and 20 upgrades and addins. Don't go jumping around, just figures plucked out of the air. As far as Wersi/Lionstracs/Openlabs , well the last two doubt if they have reach the UK yet, Wersi well there is another story, its like Grim, the " Tairy Tale " The Wersi has allways blown me away but would you want to go in that deep and drown, a bit like buying a Ford in the UK, don't know where it came from, who and when it was made.

Tony, many thanks for posting the X6's price. Whoah!
No wonder no one else was willing to post that $ information.
I'd be too embarassed to admit paying even close to that amount for any arranger.
Curious now much less(?) the Mediastation costs in comparison.

Hi Scott

Groove prices vary from $4958 - $8230 depending on version (The conversion from Euros to dollars is done after VAT is removed, using a standard currency convertor program and then adding 8% sales tax which seems to be typical in the US)

Hi Spalding

Hardly a fair comparison, if the Lionstracs was perfect and the Motif was way down the list, the Motif would swamp all the sales of the Lionstracs, due to the fact that Lionstracs does not have the financial resources to manufacture in the same numbers as Yamaha.

The same goes for R & D, Yamaha can spend millions on developing products, (Always beneficial when developing products) whereas Lionstracs entire yearly budget is probably less than what Yamaha spend on bottled water in a week.

If you look at all professionally produced music and production, they always use both hardware and software instruments (Not forgetting live performers as well) to get the best sounds and performance they can. (Not one or the other)

General

The open keyboard is designed to give users pro studio facilities (To which they can add what they want) in a single box that a mere mortal can use, at a fraction of the price, (Very few can afford to buy a top pro production studio) and would also be perfectly acceptable in the lounge.

No open keyboard apart from Wersi (Who have been making home organs since the late 60s) were designed for home users, but for users that wanted to let their experimental juices run wild.

The Wersi on the other hand was designed for home use, but not by the beginner or button pushing brigade, (Press a button and everything is done for you) as it was assumed that due to the price, users who purchased them could already play and wanted to do their own thing. (Unfortunately they did not move with the times, (As modern day society wants everything done for them with minimal effort) and is why Wersi is no more and unlikely ever to return in the future)

Music Store (One of the biggest music retailers in Europe) however is focussed on what users want, (So that they can make shed loads of money from them) hence all Wersi instruments are now having software updates introduced to bring them up to the normal OOTB experience. (The Wing was always designed for this, (Hence the reason I am NOT interested in it) so should be interesting to see how it goes once its mainstream)

I am also keeping my fingers crossed that OAS 7 instruments don’t go completely down the “Press a button and everything is done for” route, so that I can continue to do what I want and not what the manufactures says I can do. (Hence closed keyboards are of no use to me)

Finally

Remember all modern keyboards are software based; they just don’t as yet allow you to use 3rd party software. (Hence you are dictated to what you can do by the manufacture)

Bill

Bill,

I think we have been down this route before, you have explained in concise terms why we should all be a bit
cautious of buying from manufaturers who design on the fly,
R&D and field testing via the customer. I never was able to put it is such a way, you have covered every deatail.

Regards

Tony

i hear you Bill but the comparrison has some validity because all product sales are driven by demand not the financial resources to manufacture. If i show a bank or any investor a full order book i will get the money to manufacture. So far the demand for 'open products' is miniscule compared to those products that are not as 'open ' (because in reality there is no totally closed or totally open single instrument ).

Yamahas R&D is spent on making products that their reserach tells them the market WANTS AND THEY CAN MAKE A PROFIT FROM. Thats why they make products that are so popular with real world musicians and not the miniscule segment of musicians that want to spend 90 % of their time instaling software, updateing software, managing integration conflicts.... for example having to remove harddrive 'A' because the 'open keyboard 'did not happen to like it !!!


openlab products have had lots of big ticket promotion and big endorsers such as Teddy Riley , Timberland , Morris Hayes, Keith Emerson etc and they went bankrupt a few years ago only to be rescued by another company and not surprisingly ALL of these endorsing artists without exception use other manaufacturers instruments in their music production from korg to roland to yamaha.

That tells me that as far as the future is concerned 'open v closed instrument' is a redundant argument. The facts are that even when people could choose to exclusively use an open product (even the product they endorse) they still choose to use other manufactures products to make their music for whatever reason.

The truth is if you were to listen to a product demo of any open keyboard to any closed one you would not be able to tell if the sounds coming from the instrument were the sounds that came from the factory produced unit or not . You would not be able to tell if the musician produced the music on the instrument the sound came from or from an external sequencer or a software sequencer added to the instruiment subsequent to manufacture.

What you would be able to judge is the quality of what you heard and thats down to the musician and not the isntrument. That has always been the case, that will always be the case .

As for the Mediastaion, i have said plenty about the endless updates that never quite transform the instrument into anything other than an incomplete beta testing product.

The unavoidable complexity (whether real or percieved) that comes with open keyboards means that it will only ever appeal to a small market and that is why its total sales will always compare less favouribly to any closed keyboard.

Hi Spaldings,

Spot on, thought there was only me out here thinking this way, now I know there is at least two.


Tony

Hi Spalding

All valid points, however the Wing will put this to the test, as like most all of the other arrangers out there it cannot use third party software or sounds, (The exception is the ability to directly play Yamaha styles) and is designed specifically to work OOTB without requiring the user to do anything. (It is also priced within the normal arranger price line)

Will it outsell the larger instruments because of this, (Like other arrangers do) or will users still go for the more flexible larger instruments. (The next 12 – 18 months should be interesting)

Bill

This is better Scott a demo of the MS X76 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooKPAGhLeg&feature=related