Hi there!

I usually just read this forum, but i managed to recover/remember an account i created a long time ago.
To give you a brief introduction: My real name is Joost (you pronounce it like Yoast), 20 years old and i live in the Netherlands. I once (1999) started on a PSR-540, switched to a G-70, Fantom-G8 and i currently own a Yamaha Tyros4. I've had music lessons for more than 9 years: 8 years of keyboard lessons and 1,5 year of pop/jazz piano.

Since i saw my own video's passing by several times i decided to post something myself. It's a classic improvisation recorded on-the-fly. I only used the OTS presets. Enjoy!

Best Regards,

Joost

Hi Joost, interesting to discover that though you've been a SZ member since 2006, you've only posted 10 times. I can only suppose you've been saving all that time up to blow us away now with your Tyros 4 improvisation. When I close my eyes and listen I'm transported to you performing at Carnegie Hall. Joost, not only are you a technically proficient player, but your ability to adapt to the T4's limited 61 note real estate is equally impressive. On top of that, you play with great feeling & passion. Bravo!

Was your performance recorded on the Tyros 4 hard disk recorder while simultaneously using the HD VidCam to record the video (and audio?), and then later syncing the Tyros 4 recorded wav audio (and not the audio from the VidCam ) with the video in the mixdown? Please share what equipment/software was used as well as your recording process.

Also, which Tyros 4 piano voice(s) and auto accompaniment style(s) did you utilize for your performance? The only thing I didn't care for is the thin tinny sound of the piano voice at 4:27 - 4:30.

Joost, Rachmaninoff certainly lives! in your playing I even heard a hint of Brahms Hungarian Dance #5 in there too .

- Scott

Just beautiful .....Keep them coming!!!
And of course, Welcome to the Forum.

Scott and mdorantes, thank you for the compliments :-)

For the recording of my songs i use the build-in HDD recorder for the audio and my DSLR (Canon EOS 550D, T2i in the United States) for the video. I synchronize both audio and video together in Adobe Premiere (CS5).

I usually use the standard OTS presets, since i'm not a big fan of programming. In this video the first piano is the OctavePiano1 and in the second part the ConcertGrand (main piano). I saw many discussion concerning the Yamaha keyboard piano sound (you guys take it serious, Roland vs Yamaha vs Korg vs Ketron!). My opinion: the piano sound is not as good as the Roland piano's... But on the other hand, all other sounds are (way) better on the Yamaha when i compare them with my G-70 and more recently owned Fantom-G8. That's also the reason why i sold both.
In the end it's always a matter of personal taste.

Best Regards,

Joost

Joost ...... a brilliant moving performance on the T4...very enjoyable. I see you have no problem on a 61 when playing piano also...great job...welcome to SZ ...hope to see many more.

very lovely music. keep posting!

Very Beautiful Joost!! Congratulations!

You really make the T4 shine and illustrate those wonderful orchestral and vocal voices. The piano sounds awesome too.

Please, please please, post more!

Tostie,

Your heading "Hi There" you need to put something better, I nearly did not look at it. There are stars out there that are prepared to post their work, you rank up there with Telmo, Brilliant. Bet you are glad you went for the lessons. I closed my eyes and it does not sound like a KB to me. Yamaha have do an excellent job on the T4, good the here what a lot of us think getting rid on the Fantom & G70. (The exocet has got my name on it , head down)

Like Donny says the 61 KB doesn't appear to give a professional any problem so why do some moan about it when they can’t even play 76 notes they have got , well they don’t post it here

Please, please send some more, there is little as it is and even the demonstrators will not play like this unless you go to one of the full organized demos.

Tony

Hi Joost,
Beautiful, exceptional --- I feel I am a good player but when I listen to what I feel is an accomplished musician as yourself I’m humbled. You have full command of the keys and the ability to show tender expression. Five ***** to you.

How is it possible to download some of your music?
I so appreciate good talent, John C.

Beautifully done ...

Ditto!

Gary

Thanks for sharing. The piano sound is far better than MY Roland's but mine is the lowly E50 right now.
DonM

I notice you don't ask Tostie that, if Yamaha DID make a 76 T4, whether he would have got one... (he got a 76 Roland when there was a choice between a 76 and a 61)

The choice you make with Yamaha is whether to use one or not. There AREN'T any other choices to make. I guess Yamaha are to be commended for making life simple...

BTW, you don't want any counter-battery fire, don't launch the shells yourself... How WAS that 76 MS working out for you?

Exceptional performance, Joost, and a perfect example of the power in the Tyros4.

Like you, I have an extensive piano background, but the arranger is a different beast....firstly, it is not a piano, so it has to be approached differently, which you have done admirably.

As to 61 against a 76, it would matter far more to me, at least, coming from strictly a pianist's perspective, if the keys were weighted...semi-weighted, no matter what the number, is still far from feeling like a piano, and having more notes (as in 76), would add very little to overall "arranger" play, if at all...of course, this is my opinion, but you seem quite comfortable with five octaves.

Absolutely lovely playing and technique, and great use of the OTS...are you aware that the OTS can be temporarily changed without needing to save the style to User?

Your choice of style, sounds like "String Adagio" to me, is perfect for the music you played.

I am currently in the process of purchasing the Tyros4 I have here on my demo account, and I think both of us have made the right decsion in getting such a powerful, and expressive instrument.

Again, I must say, I really enjoyed your playing, and I hope that we will hear more from you on Synth Zone.

Ian

Joost, thanks for taking the time to explain your video recording process and piano voice selections.

One more question: Which Tyros 4 auto accomp. style(s) was utilized?

Joost, not withstanding your fine performance, the fact that the audio sounded so impressive using merely the preset OTS settings showcases just how fantastic Tyros 4 sounds straight 'out of the box'.
Speaking for myself, with Tyros 4, I'm for the first time on a Yamaha arranger, extremely happy with the included acoustic piano voices,
as I can easily layer (RT1,RT2,RT3) piano presets to come up with very satisfying results to equal, or perhaps even better the ones offered by the arranger competition.
Joost, you beat me posting the link to your latest video only by a a few minutes, as I had actually planned to post the link myself.
To view Joost's other fine YouTube videos, here's his: YouTube Channel.

Diki,

I never bought a MS, I got bitten with the Audya, the MS looked like an old mess of problems, we haven't seen one working with a full piece all the way through, anyway it's gone dead in the water, I suppose there is a market somewhere for the MS it certainly not in th UK. Diki, you know and I know that there never will be a 76 T4, anyway why should there be, they are selling 1000s of 61, why re-invent the wheel.

Ask Telmo & Tostie are they short of keys, didn't sound like it to me, maybe its more what I said '61 KB doesn't appear to give a professional any problem' twas the professional bit me thinks, if they can manage why can't everybody else, perhaps size does matter after all. I don't think that a KB manufacturer is any the better for making both 61 & 76 KB do you.

Regards

Tony

GOOD STUFF!

R.

Look guys... I've NEVER said I can't WORK with 61. Just, when there's an option, I prefer a larger size. It just seems like there's a lot of tap dancing to excuse Yamaha for NOT offering the option. Personally, I am of the opinion that, were the option offered, a lot of people that, as no option IS offered, are quite comfortable with the 61's would have a MUCH tougher decision to make.

But, as there is none, it's easy to 'defend' the choice you didn't have to make!

BTW, in my house right now, I have three 76's, four 61's and an 88. I can make music on any of them. But, if I can only take ONE of them on a gig...

Hi Joost:

Bravo! Stunning performance and you simply make the T-4 shine. Glad you finally decided to participate. Thanks for caring enough to share your marvelous capability.

Best regards,

Dave Rice

Don't be so silly, Diki...no one here needs to make any excuses for what they play, including yourself.

As far as Yamaha not offering an option, they actually do have a TOTL arranger with more than 61 keys...the CVP-series.

Korg is the only major arranger maker currently offering 76 notes on TOTL portable instruments.

And, that's a good thing...it's nice to see them have that niche market pretty well to themselves...someone has to do it, so it may as well be Korg.

Ian

Thank you all for the nice compliments! You made me blush :-)

Concerning the 61/76 key discussion, i still miss the Roland Fantom-G8 piano keys (feel, space & action), but buying an 88 key midicontroller is an easy solution for this 'problem'.

Best Regards,

Joost

Simply outstanding!! I enjoyed your playing, very impressive being able to approach the Tyros and playing it like a piano.

And how about that you have a simple solution to the lack of 88 keys......an 88 key controller. Keep up the terrific playing.

Yamaha Clavinova CVP 509:


A traditional piano player would ideally want 88 notes, plus fully weighted 'hammer action' keys to boot. The 88 note Yamaha CVP 509, of which incorporates Tyros 3 level SA voices and auto accomp features satisfies the full 88 note requirement, and the CVP 609, due out later this year will incorporate Tyros 4 level SA voices and styles, so the choice is already available soon for folks who want a full 88 note range Tyros keyboard. Owning and playing a Steinway B Grand as well, I approach playing the arranger as a totally different instrument from a trad piano, so find 61 notes a nice balance to afford portability ease. Even if 76 notes could be accommodated in Tyros 4, it would probably add 8-10+ lbs more to its weight. I prefer the flexible option of simply taking along a 76/88 note keyboard controller on the those rarer occasions I'm required to play my Tyros 4 primarily as a solo piano. For arranger mode playing though, and as Joost clearly demonstrated, I find 61 notes quite adequate for that playing style. Don't forget, like an accordion isn't an organ, neither is a portable arranger keyboard an acoustic piano. They are each different unique instruments in their own right, so I approach playing each of them differently.

The CVP's have always trailed the Tyros line by quite a bit. I doubt very much the 509 will be a complete substitute for a T4. Might have a FEW T4 voices, but if it is an equivalent, it will be the first time Yamaha has done this.

And, it STILL doesn't address the 76 size, which is the preferred size for MANY arranger players and keyboard players in general all over the world. Even Yamaha offer all their WS lines at a 76 size. Roland have already shown that a full 76 WITH speakers and a decent keybed can be made at well under the weight of even a 61 T4, in fact barely a couple of pounds heavier than an S910!

And, I'm sorry, but a keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard. There is no intrinsic reason why an arranger has to be any different in size (as Yamaha's CVP's show - you can't have it BOTH ways!) from any other keyboard. Sure, you bottleneck yourself into an arbitrary decision on how you can and cannot use an 'arranger', and you can get by with a restricted choice of notes. But ask yourself this... You CAN just about get by playing piano on a wooden 76. Most pre-Beethoven fits, and most pop could easily be done on it. But would you WANT to? Even if that was the only size Yamaha (or Steinway, in your case!) offered?

You'll see many good arranger and general keyboard players (many of us, contrary to what you might think, play arranger AND band gigs) playing 76 note arrangers when the option is offered. It's just SO easy to dismiss an option you don't even have. But, were Yamaha to do what everyone else does, and offer the damn plastic 76, I guarantee you would find the decision MUCH harder to make...

The robust sales of 76 plastics in the WS world shows that things are not as cut and dried as you would like them to be. There is a VERY legitimate size option in the 76 plastic, offering MANY advantages over both 61 and 88 woods. It's just sad that Yamaha users are denied the opportunity to make the same decision that other manufacturers allow us.

Diki,

I went it our local music shack yesterday and there were two prof KB players in there, I put it to them about this 76 /61 KBs and frankly they don't give a toss, when I told them about you and your views on the subject they just could not understand, they would both glady play the T4 on stage in front of 1000s if thats what paid the water, gas and electric bill and if 76 note kb died tommorrow, so what! The only thing they did say " we need bigger speaker than supplied with the T4".

Tony, I have asked many professional (and advanced) players as well, and got the same answer you did.

The fact that many SZ'ers are playing and gigging with 61 keys, most (if not all) of them advanced and pro level players, should easily indicate that playing 61 notes is not only possible, but, in most cases, preferable.

Now, I would like to suggest that anyone wanting to debate this tired old, and no win, topic of 76 notes versus 61, please start a NEW TOPIC or NEW THREAD on the subject. I don't believe the original poster intended for this topic to become a debate. In fact, he offered his solution of using an 88 note weighted controller (not 76) if more notes had been needed.

If his intention was to start a debate 76 vs 61 keys, I stand corrected...if he did not, then let's carry on with comments on the posted music, which is what I believe was the original reason for posting.


Ian

I totally agree with you there Ian. I am tired of the same old discussion over and over again that hijacks completely unrelated threads. Though to be fair it wasn't Diki that kicked off this tiresome tangent about keybed size he simply responded to a comment about it. Look back at the thread and you will see that. Enough said .... and I mean enough ... don't anyone bother replying to this issue cos I will simply delete it.

Though as far as the onboard speakers go, there really is a limit to how big and heavy they need to be. They aren't really intended for performance but are more for personal monitoring. If they do work for people for performing then that is great but most people will be running them into some sort of external PA system for live performances and don't want to have unecessary weight added to the keyboard.

Sorry Nigel and Ian,

Sometimes you just go with the flow and forget which thread your in when you are getitng old blah blah, this has such a good start to it, I won't lock horns anymore on this one and I don't know what the history is on it like others do, once again sorry, end of!


Regrads

Tony

I'm off it, too. I must say, I really DO appreciate someone finally noticing that I am not usually the instigator in these matters...