Roland BK-7m

Other than videos, has anyone personally seen, heard or even tried the new Roland BK-7m orchestrator module? I'm thinking that one of those with a Casio PX330 or Yamaha CP50 might be a sweet setup. Same question for the VIMA module...

Gotta keep Uncle Sam happy.

I just heard from Frank and he said Roland has not contacted
him about the module either.

Hammer

I called Roland US and they told me they would be shipping the first orders by mid March..

But lets hope we see & hear some real time DEMOs of the module before that besides that cheesey factory one.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BK7m/

http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=1506.msg8449#msg8449

Try this thread. Beta tester compares it VERY favorably to an E80. For under a grand!

Hope to hear more soon thanx for the heads up.

The National Accordion Association is holding their annual convention March 10-12, 2011, at the Weston Park Hotel in Dallas, TX. Roland accordions will be well represented, at least three of their dealers will be their, along with two of their best players. I have been told that they will demo the BK-7m at that time, along with their new diatonic accordion the FR-18

The dealer area is open to the general public without registering for the convention so if your in the area you may want to check it out!

Don P

Take video and pics for us too..

So we can bitch about the awful audio quality, and how no-one is demo-ing it to OUR satisfaction?!

Yep, that is one cool little module!

What a great way to add Roland ingredients to the Yamaha recipe...I always felt the Roland and Yamaha voices complimented one another.

That module would be perfect for the Yamaha P-95 piano (which has dedicated midi ports).

Ian

Or a MoXF, Kronos/M3, K2600, Nord C1 (if the MIDI issues are sorted out), heck, just about ANYTHING that doesn't already have a decent arranger section.... like an MS for instance!

The Kronos (from what we've heard so far) would sure make an impressive partner. That is one formidable instrument.

A buddy of mine just ordered a Hammond XK3c last week...I'm going to send him the above links.

Yep the Mediastation could use a real arranger section, instead of the half-hearted effort it uses now.

If this module is allegedly much like the E-80, how well do you think it will deal with conversions of styles from Yamaha and Korg...based on how the E-80 presently handles them?

Ian

Haha Good one Diki

The E/G needs translation software to read any other format (as do most arrangers) and the BK will be no different. As you are quite aware, much in Yamaha styles doesn't translate well to other arrangers, as the Mega-voice sounds don't translate well, and a few other things (those expression commands can be an issue, too) come over poorly.

But basically, IF a style has a decent E80 translation already, it should sound just as good on the BK. The beta tester said so far, only the E80's UPG's (Registrations) failed to be imported, which is usually the case until software can be developed to translate.

Don't go overboard with the E80 comparisons, though. The beta tester was primarily referring to style equivalency. The BK is STILL based more around the Preludes FEATURES (if not its' sound), so you get two UPR and one LWR Part, not the 3/2 of the E80, and no VH, etc..

Yeah I must admit I am seriously looking at one of these and a Kronos, to replace the PA2, if the PA3 does not meet my anticipated expectations.

Dennis

I don't think the BK 7m have Melody Intelligent

Yes it does. p.61 of the manual...

Doesn't appear to be a way to switch it on and off interactively that I can find, but you CAN program it into a Performance. Might be worth contacting Roland and see if you can get it added to the FC-7 or Footswitch options...

One could probably program that into a Behringer FCB I'd reckon. It does use the only available MIDI port though, and then one would need to use the thru options (ie keyboard to FCB to BK.

Not recommended for the split second midi-clock timing required to trigger chord changes.

But it could work.

My roland rep was at my store right after NAMM and he knows my needs and told me that unlike the styles in the GW8L this module has better sounds and styles. Because Roland has gone heavy into the wood cabinet digital piano market and the portable stage pianos there marketing people went the direction of the module rather than a new arranger keyboard. I have also been told I will receive them around the end of March.

George that also tallies with the Roland advice out here, end of March.

Spoke to my dealer m8, on Thursday....he already has orders for 12!!! Not including the one I MIGHT buy! And he is just one outlet (okay he IS one of the bigger ones, but still just one outlet)

I think some folks are going to miss out on the first shipment!

Not sure what you are getting at there, Dennis. The FC-7 does NOT use a MIDI port (it has its own dedicated nine-pin DIN input). And, I don't THINK I can remember a Roland arranger with the ability to turn Melody Intell on/off with a MIDI command (can you?).

About the only way I think you could do this at the moment is to set up UPG pairs, with one with Mel/Intel on, and one with off, and then use UPG up/down as a way to enable/disable it.

Yeah I know that,the FC7 has its own port(I did own a G70 and an FC7, remember )

And no, not via a MIDI command, but the FCB allows you to program Sysex messages to each of the pedals instead

I am sure I read somewhere the Roland sysex data to do this, of course maybe I am remembering incorrectly??? But I am pretty sure there were the strings somewhere...I could not be bothered as I owned the FC7

Dennis

I was just thinking about using one with a "dumb" controller. The Edirol has plenty of buttons, knobs, slider, etc., to call up any sound you want from the Roland. I suppose a synth or another arranger would add the sounds from it too, but wouldn't it be hard to use sounds from both or either and not have them get in each other's way? How would you set that up?
I tried controlling a Midjay from different arrangers, but never could figure out an easy way to use, say, piano from the controller, then guitar from the module without hearing both. Of course I didn't try very hard, so maybe I'm just ignorant of the techology. I guess you could use a volume pedal on each, but I'm already going to be using a 7-button foot controller, and a sustain pedal. I'm running out of feet.
DonM

Took a look back through my G70 sys-ex implementation. I might have missed it, but I couldn't find a sys-ex to turn Mel/Intell on/off anywhere...

Definitely something to contact Roland about and task to the FC-7, even if you COULD do it with sys-ex, I feel.

Oh for sure! It would not take too much extra software to add it either.

Hi DonM
It will depend on your Arranger, most have separate Midi voice banks (They just select and control external Midi connected modules) which once you have set them up you can use them as if they were a normal voice.
EG. Select a Bassoon for U1, choose a sound from the Midi voice bank (Strings on an SD2 for example) on U2 (And so on) and away you go. (You can also normally save them in a pre-set/registration)
There is a basic introduction here http://www.wersiclub.co.uk/Midi%20with%20Wersi.pdf which is designed for Wersi instruments, but most Arrangers should have something similar.
Hope this helps

Bill

Don,
The Korg OS can do this.
Each user voice has full prgrammability of MIDI Bank/Program change. For each User voice you can select anything you want to be sent out to control a external sound module. Also, you can select internal/extenal or both for each voice. So you could have combi's as well.

I had asked Yamaha for that a long time ago..their answer was no, you don't need that as the T2 has everything you need built in. Home keyboard mentality for sre!

Seems to be no registration memory so how to set up a performance with different sounds to change interactively I don't understand. Guess it's not possible? If that is the case it is a very big down side.

Since it's so cheap I will probaly get one to try out with my old organ. Hope it will work with drums only, from the arranger, and the manual bass part for the pedals.

Roland calls the Registration Memories, UPGs, and they work they same as Registrations.
DonM

Thanks for the information regarding controllers. Sounds like a good solution.
DonM

I wasnt happy with teh GW8 styles at all....I hope this module is much better then that?

It has about four times as many styles as E50, plus it will play all the G70, E80 and older styles.
DonM

Don the Roland demo soiunds decent my fingers are crosses for only a grand this could be a lightweight gig rig dream come true with a controller......?

There are no UPG:s in the BK-7m and there are no buttons for it. There i only one button called performance list.
That seems to be a list of single registrations. Guess a song can be saved with several single registrations but there is no button to step to next one. So the question is how to do that. Using the dial would not be very good.

Probably best to save each song as its own performance list. Then there would be 999 registrations available for each song.

Found it in the manual. The foot switch can be used to step to next performance memory.

Ordered a BK-7m today from dealer in UK. His stock will arrive

end of March. We were having a chat about the BK and he said he

heard great reports about it from his brother who demos for

Korg, he also said that it is basically the module version of

a G90 keyboard which never went into production, did anyone

hear this.

With as few Parts as the BK has compared to Roland's TOTL arrangers (3 UPR, 2 LWR on G70, 2 UPR, 1 LWR on the BK), with no VH, without a touch screen and easy editing because of it (those little displays make the Makeup and Cover Tools a harder job), without individual outputs, without footpedal AND two footswitch inputs plus the FC-7 (only one footswitch/pedal and an FC-7 on the BK), without the Guitar Mode, no, sadly, this isn't the replacement module for the G70.

Mind you, it makes a VERY capable replacement for the E50/60.

To my mind, this, in a case with a 61/76 with speakers is the new E MOTL series. Maybe a Prelude II...

So, suppose you want to add this to a Tyros 2. How would that be accomplished AND most importantly would there be a way to quickly change from an onboard Tyros style on one song and the next song use a Roland module style?

What about having a quick set up to use the module style and Tyros 2 voices on some and sometimes use both the Roland styles and voices. Not to mention using a Yamaha style with Roland voices.

Unless this would be relatively easy and be able to quickly switch I don't think this would be a great set-up??

One thing I do know I would never again try to do something like I did with a Technics KN2600 and Tyros. I wanted to get the Technics styles to play Yamaha voices.hahahaha What a screwed up process and results that turned out to be.

If only the KN2600 would have sounded as good to me as the PSR2000 I would have been happy. As it was that kb was not to my liking at all. I was even able to buy it at the closeout wholesale price from Technics and even then it wasn't worth it to me. Each to there own, no put down intended.

overpriced, for what it really is. At the price, without a keyboard, I'd expect a nice big screen and a good sequencer built in. In other words....a workstation, not just a sound module with styles

HEY! Check this setup out - maybe it'll give the big boys a run for their money!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT4omHyGxtI&feature=related
(I can't stop laughing)

Perhaps you are right but I guess it depends on how good the sounds and styles are if it's overpriced or not. It for sure would have been better with a few more features, all Rolands top sounds, more buttons, more real time parts, and bigger screen, even with added cost, but it's a little more than half the price of a Ketron SD3, as is the only competitor I know of, but still double poly, double number of styles, more sounds. Question is which sounds best?

I'm afraid, AYPCN (time for a shorter name, dude!) that the world has moved on. Not including a full sequencer, for MOST people, seems a fairly common thing these days. Not everyone is a computerphobic as you are. To my mind, no onboard sequencer (but exceptional header editing) is a PLUS, not a negative! Leaves more R&D money for 'arranger' features.

One BIG improvement over the E60/50 is the individual Part EQ's, and a HUGE improvement over the Prelude/GW is the return of detail Drumkit Makeup Tools with individual drum sound EQ's.

Something has me puzzled, though. There's a couple of buttons on the front panel (Variation 3 & 4) sub-labeled 'Mark A repeat' and Mark B delete' which I can't find any reference to in the manual. Maybe this is a Mark/Jump feature for the SMF playback? Puzzling...

...OR maybe it's a chord sequencer!!!!!! Naw.
DonM

Although Diki, if you look closely at the pic in the manual, it does say "MARKER", not mark...so maybe it is a midi file repeat marker.

Would not be the first time Roland left something out of a manual

Dennis

Huh? Look again... Well, MY version of the manual (BK-7m_e2 (1).pdf) quite clearly has them labeled as MARK A (Repeat) and MARK B (delete).

If the two markers can be STORED with the SMF (like the G70 does with all four) then this could be a rudimentary Mark/Jump...

Here's a pic.

Well I cannot post a pic as I don't have a website to link to (what is your website/webpage then Diki ?)

But Diki have a close look at the pic on page 31 of the manual under the Variation 1,2,3,4 Sub-heading...

Maybe you could post it too, so it can confirm I WAS quoting something in the manual.

Dennis

I stand semi-corrected:

You'll notice though, that the balloon doesn't blow up the ACTUAL panel display. Panel still says MARK, even in that picture. And you can do a 'search' for Mark OR MARKER and you won't find ONE mention of the feature...

Bloody Roland!

BTW, .JPG's can be directly uploaded here, if under the size limits of the forum software. No need (any more) to link to a webpage...

Ahh okay cool thanks Diki, I will investigate the methods..

Yes I did notice the conflict of images on that page.....but it was where I got the info re: marker

I concur that the term mark OR marker appears no-where in any Roland literature, or even on the web. It got my interest piqued as markers are a great tool, and it would have enhanced the growing interest for me about this module...

We COULD write to Roland support I suppose, but by the time they answered, Fran would already have one and could tell us

Dennis

Anybody have any input on this at all? I'm pretty green at this. I'm thinking that the setting can't be saved on a Tyros 2 and that I'd have to go in every time I wanted to use the module and pick what channels to to whatever. And then do it in reverse to go back to the Tyros. Any ideas?

Scott,If I was setting a combination as you mentioned on a "Roland", it is simple and effective..

By setting the rx and tx data and turning off "local" for the parts you do not want to hear from the controlling keyboard ..On G70,E50,60,80..these settings are saved to a "user program"..similar to Yamaha registrations..

Earlier Roland models (G1000) were saved to "midi sets" and not the "performances".


What you need to find out...can Yamaha save the midi data to a registration?..If the settings of the "MIDI" data is saved as "Global" only (I find this hard to believe}..than you would have to live with a single setting and change when needed..this would be a pre mid 80's limitation, and I doubt any manufacturer would limit midi save this way...

Check you MIDI save options on the Tyros2..You are looking for the ability to save a midi set up...ideally with a registration or a link to a registration...

The rest of your project will be setting the rx, tx and locals..

Combining the Tyros and the BK would be difficult by themselves. Simply put, the Yamaha's simply aren't designed as flexible MIDI controllers.

Your better bet is a two keyboard system, with a controller keyboard on the bottom, for Roland arranger section and both Roland and Yamaha lead voices (get a controller with two independent MIDI outs), and the Tyros for control of its own arranger section and just Yamaha lead voices. Yes, you CAN get the Yamaha to control lead voices in the BK, but it's a PITA and convoluted.

Ideally, a 76 bottom keyboard and the T2 as top, you've got a pretty good system there. But having the Yamaha play some Internal voices for a style and some external on the BK would be tricky. And vice versa, TBH. Plan on doing a LOT of detail style editing if you want to achieve this.

It might be interesting to clock the Yamaha from the BK (or vice versa) and have TWO styles going on at the same time, and just use Part mutes to select which one plays which Part... But getting them both to change Var's and fills is going to be tricky. If you can find a master controller that will allow ONE button to send two DIFFERENT MIDI commands on different outputs and MIDI channels, you might be able to pull this off. Sadly, no two manufacturers use the same MIDI codes for the exact same function

But a BK from a T2? I doubt that that can be done satisfactorily unless you want only the very minimum communication between the two.

Sounds like WAY too much work for me. I can probably be happy with either one. I'll try the BK before I decide. I'll get one with trial period.
DonM

Yes...do it the way DIKI said.
I have a lot of experience in this area...and to be honest don't expect to have full control of arranger X from arranger Y.
It ain't gonna happen...
But a top notch MIDI second lower KB, with multi zones and 2 MIDI outs..well you can do a lot.
You will have to send some serious time to get it all working.
Maybe add a Korg Nano control too.
Also, to get the most cntrol...you may need to add a PC. (Oh No!)

Dennis... seems we need to talk to Roland BAD... There are FOUR buttons there just BEGGING to be used as four Markers in SMF mode. Just like the G70/E80.

Coincidence? I think NOT!

They already have the code. All it needs is slotting into the OS.

Next BIG thing is some rudimentary tempo mapping on .wav's and mp3's, so the same thing could be done with audio files, too. That might also allow for simultaneous arranger/SMF and audio file use, too.

Agree totally!!

With what I am learning about the PA3, the option of the BK7 teamed with either the Kronos or a Yamaha XS, or XF 7 is looking better and better. It would be further enhanced again if they (Roland) implemented your suggestions there for sure!!

Dennis