NAMM 2011: Roland Arranger Module?

Fast forward to 2:20 in this video:

http://www.synth.me/music-gear/namm-2011-roland-reveals-digital-accordian-midi-and-usb

Does anyone have more info?

have you decided if it is an arranger module OR a digita accordian? Or are you seeing double?

'digital'

Watch the whole video or fast forward to 2:20 and you will see what I mean.

OK, I did some research on my own: It is called the BK-7m. This french site has some information:

http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/26169-NAMM-2011-ROLAND-BK-7m-Module-d-accompagnement

A quick Google translation gives us:

- Module accompanying ultra compact MIDI compatible instruments like pianos, accordions, organs or keyboards
- Over 1,000 sounds, 57 drum kits, 128-voice polyphony
- More than 400 musical styles each with 4 memories "One Touch"
- More than 900 registrations Music Assistant for a large repertoire
- Playback SMF and audio directly from USB port
- Audio files in WAV format on a USB connected
- Function "Cover" for SMF and musical styles
- Composite video output for display

The full details will probably be available in 4 hours on the Roland Connect site:

http://www.rolandconnect.com/

Stripped down GW-8 or Prelude...

Nothing to get your panties moist about (unless it's JUST the form factor)!

I guess you are right, but I would still love it as a companion to my Roland FR-3S accordion. It looks much more mobile than the Ketron offerings - and will probably be much cheapter too

Tommy don't guess ... just wait for the demos and see what turns up.....amazing negative people can be about nothing
they know ...I get a big laugh out of it.

Come on Diki, you don't post for ages and THIS is the best you can come up with??

It may just turn out to be a mini G70 / E80
Good sales possibilities for a module such as that.
Tony

Yes I agree it's way too early to be so judgmental on it..lets get some hard facts first....

Well, if this thing sounds like a G-70/E-60 or better, I might think of pairing one up with a digital piano as a replacement for my trusty old Boss DR-3.

I'm actually interested in this - I hope the price point is along the lines of the Juno-Di.

DocZ

Read the specs... compare to GW-8/Prelude.

Then ask yourself, if Roland had anything NEW to offer in the arranger division, do you think they would bring it out as an accordion accompaniment module FIRST?

C'mon, guys!

Maybe the reason I haven't posted here for some time is simply the disconnect with reality often shown here, especially at NAMM-time. Or is it that you guys actually LIKE having your pie in the sky dreams dashed every time?

Only 35 minutes to go and then we will all be much wiser

http://www.rolandconnect.com/

Who knows Diki, it MIGHT even have a chord sequencer

After all it is only yesterday and today anyone has heard ANYTHING about it!!

Thing is, the "REAL" module to get is not even being released at NAMM, it is coming to MusikMesse.

Now, IT, will be the one to have. Just wait and see what is coming!!!

Dennis

It MIGHT be an all software VSTi player with a balanced soundset and styles that blow the Audya away, too..!

I mean, if you are going to dream, dream BIG!

It's kinda like Christmas, isn't it? You spend the whole night before going 'I'm going to get a pony, I'm going to get a pony, I am REALLY going to get a pony!' Christmas will be a let-down unless you get a pony..!

LOL, yeah Diki I hear you... But in this case the Pony has left the stable and is nearing the home bend!! To continue the equine analogy....

The cat is out of the bag:

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=bk-7m

Looks good to me

And no, I am not referring to the Roland product either

I just viewed the video from rolandconnect.com and color me exicted! If this thing costs less than a PSR-S910 I'm getting one!!!

128 polyphony
400+ styles with 4 variations
Play styles, midi, mp3 and wav from USB
Audio input with panel knob
Record audio performances
Song list

Combine that with my Harmony-M and that new Roland RD-300NX, I think I might have my dream keyboard setup.

I'm keeping my eyes, ears, toes, fingers and fingernails crossed hoping for a great price point!

DocZ

Sorry to say, but those specs look VERY Sonic Cell-ish. Drum kits are upped, but the '1000 plus Tones' is basic Sonic Cell specs, not the additional 'World' variants which double the ROM for the Prelude and GW-x and add several hundred new tones (amongst which are usually some of the standouts, IMO).

Nice to see an FC-7 pedal input (but what else can they do with a remote, anyway!)

Only one LWR tone and two UPR's is definitely NOT comparable to three UPR and two LWR (and an MBS) from Roland's TOTL.

Now, don't get me wrong, this looks like a GREAT way for non-Roland users to get an easy way to add the Roland sounds and styles to their arsenal (if their arranger's MIDI implementation is flexible enough), and, if the drum kits include all the Latin stuff in the GW-8L (which I thought were superb), this still might be something I could go for to add some arranger capabilities to my Kurzweil K2500 (mind you, hauling that thing around makes my G70 seem like a PSR!) if it isn't too expensive, but I still stand by what I initially thought...

A Prelude (bit stripped down in some areas, beefed up in others) in a box.

More later when I can download a full Parameter and Tone Chart and compare to what Roland already have out...

No Chord Sequencer !?

Looks like Korg are the only ones to revive that idea.

an useful module, although too basic....small screen, no sequencer, etc

But still, seems a really good product for these who want to pair it with a good master keyboard with good keys and have a portable setup.

and is has a nice 'piano black' finish. Once again, Roland equipment looks good.

If it's not too expensive it's surely a very capable module.

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=bk-7m

more pictures

Anyone got a ball park price on this thing?

Ian

As comparable to the GW-8 and Prelude as this is, I would not be surprised to see it in the same ballpark. I hope they don't rape the accordion players.

Be interesting to see whether Roland, now they have returned the Cover functions to the OS, roll out a new OS for GW-8/Prelude to add back in this amazingly useful function...

Hopefully along the lines of the Sonic Cell or less.. if it's more than that I'm not game.

DocZ

Sonic Cell is half the price of a Prelude. I doubt this will be that inexpensive. After all, It IS a Sonic Cell PLUS a bunch of other stuff. The Cell is just the engine. That's like expecting an RA90 to be the same price as the Sound Canvas it was based on...

Not going to happen.

Are we ALL hopeless dreamers here?!

wow looks nice & small
hopefully it sounds big

we'll see...

Seems similar to the Ketron Midjay except with the addition of USB playback & recording.

Well it's not a Sonic Cell + a whole lot of stuff.. Sonic Cell has stuff that this thing doesn't. If this module is ment to be an addon for the home piano user - the ones that fork out cash for a RD300NX or a FP4 then it cannot cost more than max half the price of the piano - if it does - I doubt it will sell much. I'm hoping for USD $500 for this, but I guess it will be in the $900 range. But time will tell

DocZ

It's a Prelude PLUS some stuff the Prelude doesn't have... (and minus some stuff, I'll admit)

I expect to see it between $1000 and $1500, to be honest. Be a bargain if it's cheaper. Look, the Ketron Audya module is almost the same price as the Audya. It SURE isn't the same price as the little sound module they put out!

Sonic Cell has HALF the ROM of a GW-8. What does the Cell do that's significantly better than a Prelude (apart from detail Tone editing and creation)?

this seems like a good backup plan for my Audya

this can't match the live drums, live guitars from AUDYA

Nor should it, for 1/3 the price...

Well the Audya module is basically a keyless Audya, and since the Audya is insanely expensive to begin with the module is to - and keys aren't all that expensive in the first place. Where I live the Audya module costs $7500USD and the Audya costs $9800USD that is $2300 less than the keyboard. 30% less. So if this thing follow that same recipy it should cost $350 if it is relative to the price of the GW-8, or $420 if it is relative to the price of the Prelude. But until we know - we can only speculate

DocZ

you get what you pay for,
if you want a good sounding board
you gotta pay !!! that's basically it...

loving my Audya and it's sound

Well, at least I'm interested. I too would consider coupling this - or another, better mod released at MusicMesse - with a digital piano. Even though I would be adding pieces to my sparse rig, the weight factor would still be good, I'd have 76 or 88 keys and I might even get a better piano sound than I now have with my s910.

Sweetwater has a sale price of $999, so Diki got it right this time Sweetwater also have more detailed specs than the Roland site:

Sounds: 1,092 tones, 57 drum sets (GM compatible)
128-voice maximum polyphony
19-part multitimbral sequencer (16 song parts + 3 external parts through MIDI input)
Key and tempo controls for WAV and MP3 files
Center cancel and Melody Mute functions available for playback
Reverb, harmony, and other vocal effects available on Mic input 1
Song Chord Extractor automatic chord detection for SMF files
Playlist lists function allows you to store favorite songs for automatic playback
SMF covers: 30 demos
USB recorder records audio files (WAV, 16-bit/44.1kHz linear format) and Slide shows picture folder linked to songs (recommended resolution: 1024 x 768 or 512 x 384 pixels)
Real-time player: SMF (Format 0/1), KAR, mp3, WAV, mp3+CDG
VIMA TUNES: Yes
Lyrics: SMF and mp3/WAV
SMF song section reverb: 8 types, chorus: 8 types, MFX A, B, C: 84 types, parametric EQ, multi-band compressor
Display: 132 x 64 backlit LCD
Headphone jack: Stereo 1/4"
Audio inputs: 1 x 1/8" stereo, 2 x XLR/TRS
Phantom power: Mic 1
USB connectors: 1 x type B (data storage), 1 x type A (for MIDI to and from computer)
MIDI: In and Out
Video output: Composite (PAL or NTSC, selectable)
Audio outputs: 2 x 1/4"
Power supply: 9V DC (via supplied AC adaptor)
Current draw: 700 mA
Dimensions: 10-3/4" (W) x 9-1/16" (D) x 3-3/16" (H)
Weight: 3.56 lbs.
Included accessories: owner's manual, AC adaptor, and Roland USB Memory M-UF2G

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BK7m

Not dissing the Audya... It sounds amazing, and I would probably buy one if I only could afford one... it costs more than my car!

Guess I could sell the car, but I need that car to drive to the gig, and I doubt my wife would ever forgive for forking out 7.5k for a keyboard.... how do you spell that sound Homer Simpson makes? Dhough?

DocZ

He said 1000, I said 900 range

Oh well.. he can have it. Maybe the market price will be a bit lower, I'm guessing this is the MSRP?

DocZ

Ok, MSRP 1499, sale price 999 he got it - spot on!

I surrender

DocZ

And the official brochure:

http://roland.dk/assets/media/pdf/bk-7m_brochure.pdf

Any news on prices in Denmark? I guess I'll have to call a lot of people tomorrow, I really want one of these!

Doc-Z

Phantom power, vocal harmony and a sequencer?! MESA WANT NOW!!!
This is a dream come true for me if this thing costs under 8000 NOK!

DocZ

Hang on a minute.. it doesn't have a mic input, are those specs on sweetwater both for the JM-5 and the BK-7m?

DocZ

Still no button for a Break/Fill. This would probably be a deal-stopper for me.
DonM

if it has a good sequencer and top sounds, it's very good. The price is higher than I would have thought, and the small screen is a shame, but still the unit looks much more competitive compared to the Ketrons!

"the unit looks much more competitive compared to the Ketrons!"

competitive in the sense of $$$ and NOT overall sound i assume you're implying ???

Although it's clearly intended for accordion players, as were the older RA-series, it will also be especially handy for those using digital pianos.

I think it's a great unit.

Ian

I don't fully understand this unit.

does it come with its own sound engine? or does it need to use a separate module or plug into a Keyboard via midi?

does it have its own styles like you would get on a high end arranger workstation?

does it have memory banks?

Nick

Yep, agree 100%

Dennis

Sounds good in the video.. you gotta love the accordian player He's got moves!
BK-7m Overview

The horns on the big band style sounds a lot like the ones that were in the G-70, the overdrive guitar sounds like crap... but that's one thing I have yet to hear any keyboard, plugin, sampler or anything do convincing.. so I'm not going to judge it on that.

DocZ

http://www.musiclab.com/products/realstrat_info.htm

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/guitar/guitar-rig-4-pro/

It has an FC-7 pedalboard input. I haven't seen the manual (have you?), but I would have thought that B/F (although it's probably still Roland's old Break/Mute from the G70) would be able to be mapped to one of those...

I own RealStrat and RealGuitar, while they sound great, and work good in a mix - they do not sound like a real guitarist playing a real guitar. I also own GuitarRig, that is only effect and amp modelling - and again the models sound good, and work great in studio mixes - the models do not sound like their hardware counterparts. I have yet to try, hear and play any modelling software or hardware that sounds like a true vintage tube amp, or a vintage Tube Screamer for that matter. Even the new fancy "Reissue" tube amps do not sound like their grandfathers.

I'm not saying that all of these sound bad, I'm saying they don't sound or feel authentic. That being said, very few have the economic privilege to own every classic amp from a Champ and Plexi to JC-120, so in value things like GuitarRig and PODs hold their own, because they do sound good. It's just not the same as flicking a switch and watch those filaments warm up and crank the thing to 11 and hear those EL's, KT's or 6L's roar. Or incase you own a JCM800 100W the screams of your neighbours begging for their sanity.


DocZ

Hi,
pity,it doesn't appear to load user styles, or have I missed something?

yes, apparently it plays them from the usb stick.
In the video the guy says "plays music styles directly from the usb drive".

DocZ

Hi Doc,
unfortunately I can't play the video, I don't have Apple Quicktime. I installed it yesterday for another video clip, and I lost all sound on my Win7 laptop, had to uninstall, but my sound is back now, thank goodness.

Wow, if it does play actually plays user styles, it will definately be on my wish list. Been wanting an arranger module for my piano for ages.

Might see if I can get clip running on my netbook.

thank you

Hi ,
just realized there's also a U Tube clip, which I was able to play, the guy mentions USB stick & styles. If it does, then it's on my wishlist.

I do have an FC7. I wish the E50 would accept it but it doesn't.
The Break/mute isn't any use for me. It's easier just to hit Stop, then press the keys again when it's time to Start.
DonM

fingers baby fingers!!

MSRP in Denmark will be DKK 7250,- This means a retail price around DKK 6000,- First delivery is expected on the 26. of April.

then you want MOR or MOR2 from Eastwest / Quantum Leap. This is the only thing I found that used REAL tube amps in the recordings of the samples.

I have MOR 1. While it's advertised as a 'metal group' library, you'll find in there many great vintage sounds, like a fantastic clean Tele through a real old Fender amp, as well as strats, PRS guitars, etc, through a variety of amps.

JCM800 metal stuff:

http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/Ministry-Of-Rock/

rock stuff:

http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/Ministry-Of-Rock/


I agree with you about the modelling technology. Sounds quite fake in the end compared to real tube amps.

also check 'Fab Four' from the same company. I don't have this one library but there's some great demos there. Sounds like Beatles' equipment.

http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/Fab-Four/

And Goliath also has a nice array of real sounds from guitars and amps....

http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/Goliath/

PS I could not edit the above post anymore, found out that the links don't take you to the exact tracks, only to the general page of the product, so:

for MOR:

click 'hard rock' (last track in the list) for the JCM800 type sounds

clICK 'Modern Rock 1' for a more vintage sound

for Goliath:
click 'Hot Wing' for blues-Hendrix type of sounds

another thing you might want to try, is Band in a Box. It's Realtracks sounds like real performances (well, they are), and when it works well, the program is impressive. I have had many problems with it and in the end switched back to hardware arrangers, as I was wasting too much time. Even when it works well, the sheer amount of options are confusing. There is so much stuff for it that you'll find yourself sitting there for weeks.

Also, in my experience it doesn't recognizes chords as well as the hardware arrangers.

But for these Realtracks, it's hard to beat.

Hi Rikki
Go for the Full or mega versions and you can forget Apple QuickTime, as with this codec pack WMP will play all of them. (Make sure you tick all the boxes to assign all formats to WMP)
Hi Rikki
Go for the Full or mega versions and you can forget Apple QuickTime, as with this codec pack WMP will play all of them. (Make sure you tick all the boxes to assign all formats to WMP)
http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm
Hope this helps

Bill

Hope this helps

Bill

As a long time Roland fan, it makes me kind of sad, Roland hasn't shown any spectacular new keyboard technologies since they released the V-synth..

I think the rumors are true, Roland slowly moving on away from the keyboard market..... Atleast away from Arrangers and Workstations...

Sad, sad, sad....

I like to use mine for playing, but everyone to his own, I suppose!

I guess I'm just old school. If I got enough time to push a bunch of buttons all the time, I usually figure I'm not playing all I can...

yea I notice piano player have a habit of doing that

Thanks Bill,
gave me a hell of a scare when I lost sound on my new laptop, Lucky I was able to pinpoint Quicktime download, had caused my problem for whatever reason.
I'll see how I go with your link.

Hi,
I'm thoroughly enjoying BIAB 2011, the program has so improved since the introduction of the Real tracks, they're great.

Yes my friends this is the all new Roland arranger module. Here is the link:

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=bk-7m

PS: Somebody might have already posted the same link. I haven't read all the posts in this thread so this might be old hat. Anyway, I'm quite thrilled about this new arranger module from Roland. There are 400 high quality Styles plus the ability to play and manipulate audio files. 128 note polyphony as well.

All the best,
Mike

I ordered the $1,499 retail BK-7m from Sweetwater for $999 including two year warranty and free shipping..they are on a delayed delivery .

Fran, Good luck with your new module....who knew?

Man, I had predicted this all along.
Once a Roland fan boy, always a Roland Fan boy! Congrats Fran.

Anyone been able to dig up more demos of this thing? Audio or video?

I talked to my dealer here in Norway, MSRP will be NOK 8030,- and a retail price of NOK 7650,-

That means it will be NOK 830,- more expensive than the GW-8 and NOK 280,- cheaper than the Prelude. In my opinion that is a weird place to be for this product.

DocZ

Will these be ALL NEW Roland styles in this module OR just the "same ones" that are in the Prelude/GW8?

You find ONE arranger that has 'ALL NEW' styles in it, Donny, and perhaps this point might be valid. But from Yamaha to Ketron and all in between, you are NEVER going to find an arranger with ALL new styles.

Wish it wasn't so, though...

Why I said that is that I wasn't very impressed with the GW7,8 or Prelude styles.....thought maybe some slim chance Roland would have improved the whole style set. But I guess as intended by their demos for mostly Accordion players it's good enough to get by with.
The small display is a turnoff though. I hope it's successful for them.

If it will play styles from E series and G series, complete with OTS, then I'll be very happy.
DonM

To bad it doesn't have VH also.

If you were going to buy one of these what keyboard/controller would you use with it and why?
Hammer

I have an Edirol PCR-800 that I like a lot. I used it to control the Ketron Midjay when I had one. As I mentioned on PSR Tutorial, I have an M-Audio that is brand new that works fine. I like the Edirol better. You can have the M-Audio if you need one.
I could also control it with Roland E50, but that might be redundant.
With a light-weight controller and the Roland module, you would be looking at a TOTAL weight of 10 or 11 pounds!
Do you still have the E80? I miss mine, but it was just too heavy to carry around.
DonM

Don, I sold the E80 - only kept it for about 2 months. I had a room full of TOTL arrangers and really couldn't justify keeping it. Because of it's weight I would have never taken it on a gig.

hammer

Bill are you considering going module/controller now?

Hi Donny,
Yes, I am looking at using the new Roland Backing Module. It seems to me many of us spend a lot of money to play TOTL arrangers and most of the audiences I perform for could care less - it's the music and how it is played that gets their attention. So, as I get older(now 70) and often play 2 or three gigs a day I would like to lighten my load on gigs. Right now I am down to a Bose L1 Compact and my Tyros 4 plus all the supporting gear. Anyway, thought I would give it a try and see how it would work.

Hammer

Each new Roland, it seems like they massage the styles a LITTLE bit, so there may be a noticeable difference between the BK and a GW or Prelude. Plus, they now have a better Makeup Tools section (from OS2 on the GW) and a Cover Tools section on the BK, so massaging the styles to be even MORE the way YOU want them should be doable. I pretty much take for granted that I'm going to have to massage a ROM style anyway, so no biggie for me.

But if you expect Yamaha sound, or Ketron sound, or Korg sound, you are asking a bit much. Like asking one of THEM to sound like a Roland, if the truth be told. Each is its own thing....

Bill....I hear ya on the lighten the load thing but keep in mind.. more wired and pieces to hook up, won't be as easy to communicate with the pieces as it is with one arranger Kb.....and i would suggest you don't buy this module until you actually listen good to it as it is just the prelude/GW8 in a box and compared to the Tyros4 or what your used to regarding TOTl units will be much different......even then i would hook it all up in the store and try to seamlessly play a set or two to see if its for you.....yes it looks good in theory but in actual LIVE PLAY its much different......I've been this route a few times and nothing for me works better then ONE ARRANGER KB & LT.

Good luck

Donny,
I totally agree - a really good hands on tryout is essential.
Hammer

Deane, you had an E50 for a while. Mine continues to satisfy my needs every time I use it. It took some work to set up OTS for the E80 and G70 styles, but it plays them all.
I expect the module to be comparable in sound and function, with a few modernizations.
DonM

If you're an auto accomp arranger style keyboard player that requires quick on the fly access to all the arranger buttons while playing I don't recommend going the module route. I used to use a Roland RA800 (module version of the G800) along with a 'Roland A33' or 'Fatar 1176' keyboard controller, and found the module impossible to optimally position for easy access of its arranger buttons when playing the keyboard controller. I think modules better suited for karaoke vocalists, and solo instrumentalists (guitarists, horn players, accordionists, etc). A 'one piece' arranger keyboard unit's the best option imo.

There's an FC-7 input on the BK-7m. Seven switches you can assign to whatever you need for foot triggering. Plus the unit seems small enough to mount right over the keyboard you are using to trigger it, and the layout seems to put all the main buttons you need on fairly big buttons, right at the front of it. Take a look at the layout, again, Scott. Things seem a LOT better than those old RA units (I had an RA90 for years) ever were.

I am not sure that this is really the right thing for someone that wants to use a controller and JUST this, as you say, might as well go for a regular arranger, but for someone wanting to add an arranger capability to a nice WS, or MIDI guitar, or MIDI accordion, etc., it's a well tested form factor.

Bill.....you dont want to end up like this with gear!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nux-PNYdtc

Scott,
I used the Ketron Midjay for a long time. It was pretty easy to position it to where you could easily access all controls; if fact it was easier than reaching them on some arrangers.
This Roland module should be even easier because it is smaller.
Also, you should have full midi controller from the controller keyboard, plus the foot controller and pedals.
I am going to try one for sure. Subject to changing my fickle mind of course!
DonM

could be a good match Don with the Behringer UMX610 61-Key USB / Midi Controller Board

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UMX610.aspx

I already have an Edirol PCR-800 that works great. Like Scott, I had an A33, but sold if for some reason which I don't remember. It had 76 keys, but the PCR-800 has 61.
Haven't tried a Behringer, but I seem to remember that George Kaye said they weren't that great.
DonM