Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$

Posted by: MacAllcock

Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/23/10 02:43 PM

I've been browsing Yamaha's Tyros 4 website.

The internal memory available is still minimal, and (unless I'm reading it wrong which is always a possibility) if you want to do serious voice editing and customisation you MUST install some extra flash memory.

So I've checked the price. The larger one gigabyte flash memory upgrade - the FL1024M module - costs over 200.

This seems horrifically expensive given (a) the cost of flash memory and (b) it looks like any seriously creative Tyros owner will have to fit some extra memory to use the keyboard to it's fullest capabilities. I appreciate there's some R&D cost in there but computer memory interfacing is not rocket science. This memory costs more than a netbook!

Someone please tell me I've got it wrong!
Posted by: Diki

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/23/10 02:53 PM

Check out how expensive the MoXF FLASH RAM is

I've said many times, as proprietary as Yamaha's format for their sampler multisamples is, the lack of available high quality content for the sampler makes it kind of moot...

It used to be Yamaha's glacial load times that worried me the most, but FLASH is instant, however, it's a suitcase for someone with no clothes, at the moment...
Posted by: UkTexan

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 02:17 AM

You must have been reading my mind as I compared the expense of the memory to the price of a netbook,only yesterday. I hope to upgrade from a Tyros2 to a Tyros4. I would have bought some of the extra sounds in the future, but to play them I need the extra memory, so Yamaha have done themselves out of future sales from myself, by "over egging the pudding".
If I was upgrading from a Tyros3 with the added purchased sound modules, I would be even more irritated, as to play these modules one requires the extra new style memory. I believe Yamaha have found a way to transfer these prevously purchased modules to the Tyros 4 but of course, to put them back on your new keyboard you have to buy the extra new memory. Very catch 22 - waste the money put into the modules or spend even more to play them again. I love the Tyros brand of keyboards and know Yamaha have to make a nice profit to stay in business, but this latest scheme is a bit blatent. The netbook I am writing this on cost 199 pounds including VAT, a year ago.
Cheers
Carol
Posted by: leeboy

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 05:20 AM

Same crap...take the money!
Standard memory should have been used...it is very inexpensive now days...
They all do it, not just Yamaha.
256M Sample expansion for the Korg I have was about $150 if I remember correctly.
Lee S
Posted by: Irishacts

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 01:06 PM

Whatever about the price, I can't believe we even have to load samples to RAM these days. Having the ability to stream sounds on my Lionstracs Medaistation even makes a joke out of my OASYS when it comes to samples.

All keyboards should be streaming samples. It's the year 2010 for crying out loud. And while I'm at it... why have Jet Packs and Flying Cars not been released too.

Seriously though, after experiencing the meidastation steaming data effortlessly, I don't think I could ever go back to having to load things to RAM.

Regards
James
Posted by: Diki

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 01:22 PM

Because those actually MAKING 'open' arrangers and WS's have decided to concentrate on the engine, and forget abut the interior of the car. Kind of like putting a modern turbo-diesel on a Model T.

The day that anybody makes an open arranger, with computer based sample loading and current I/O capabilities, and THEN adds all the content and ease of use that the vast majority of arranger players want, the world will beat a path to their door (as long as they don't make it unaffordable). Until then, they will remain niche products for a tiny niche market.

We all know (or at least, some of us remember) that most arrangers are not built around off the shelf computer parts, motherboards, etc. So cheap, off the shelf memory is not going to be possible to put in most closed arrangers. They are built around RISC and custom designed chips, so it's likely the FLASH RAM is proprietary, too. But no doubt someone more technical will take a look at Yamaha's FLASH RAM and see if an off the shelf alternative would work... Me , I very much doubt it!
Posted by: Irishacts

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 02:07 PM

Diki, 10 years ago when I got my AKAI S5000 sampler I had disk streaming.

Granted it was limited to 12 notes back then when streaming, but hey... it's 10 year old technology. I just think Yamaha and everyone else can to a lot better than they are in this regard.

It has nothing to do with Open Technology. It's keyboard manufactures trying to pigeon hole people into incremental upgrades.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 09-24-2010).]
Posted by: leeboy

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 02:56 PM

James...correct as usual...
I hope the new Korg (if we get one someday) has streaming...
Lee S.
Posted by: Diki

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/24/10 03:12 PM

Personally, the thought of streaming samples off of a disk mounted in a keyboard that is being pounded kind of worries me...

To be honest, despite the expense (and it's STILL a fraction of the cost of the keyboard), FLASH RAM appeals to me highly. Instant on (you don't even get that with computers... they have to boot up and all sorts of things before you are ready to go), functionally identical to ROM... up to 3GB in the MoXF (one already in, two more as optional) - considering the entire ROM of the T4 is probably under 1GB, that's at LEAST doubling the size of it, and NO issues about disk reliability.

For the heavy gigging pro, I see a LOT of advantages to FLASH RAM (and a studio situation, you're going to use software and a computer, anyway).

BTW, things are JUST as incremental in the computer world... sure, they have a heck of a head start over hardware, but their pace of improvement is still glacial, once you blue sky what COULD be done. Hardware needs reliability and utter bomb-proof operation, something you know well isn't necessarily the hallmark of software based systems. The price you pay for that is being well behind the bleeding edge of technology.

That's a price I'm willing to pay.
Posted by: abacus

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/25/10 01:06 AM

You really should join the 21st century Diki.

Computers go through a major upgrade every 3 years or so, not incremental. (6 core CPU, 64bit OS, USB 3, SATA III are some of the most recent)

SSD are also now starting to drop in price, (As well as getting ever faster) with keyboards now starting to come as standard with them. (Thus boot up times are getting even shorter)

As to unreliability problems streaming off HDD live, you once again prove how out of touch you are with modern computer hardware, as this has been a non-entity for years.

Bill
Posted by: trident

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/25/10 05:51 AM

Truth is, an SSD drive capability would solve all the above problems, even an 32 GB SSD would perfectly allow more than enough space for samples and other content, and also have the capability to stream whatever you threw it.
Posted by: Kingfrog

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/25/10 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Check out how expensive the MoXF FLASH RAM is

I've said many times, as proprietary as Yamaha's format for their sampler multisamples is, the lack of available high quality content for the sampler makes it kind of moot...

It used to be Yamaha's glacial load times that worried me the most, but FLASH is instant, however, it's a suitcase for someone with no clothes, at the moment...


A huge reason I see no need to upgrade the XS8. I'll wait for the loads LOL $300 a pop is necessary for the live player perhaps. Plus they left off the mLan FW interface which sent 16 audio tracks to independent tracks on any DAW which was stock on all the 88 weighted Motifs. If they replaced that with USB 3 I might be interested. But Yamaha is always way behind the technology curve when it comes to RAM and interfacing, I only recently got Win 7 64 bit drivers for the Firewire interface and still have not loaded them up because there are a whole host of plugins that would have to be purchased in 64 BIT versions....ugh, Its a good thing I am not one of those 24+ track guys, 32bit Win 7 is good enough, Tyros picks up a lot of the slack there. I am not out to sell a million copies of anything. Just have a little hobby that pays for itself.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 09-25-2010).]
Posted by: Diki

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/25/10 11:38 AM

Hard drive reliability is still dependent on how the drive is treated. No-one wants to drop their laptop... it will still hose the drive. Fact is, most spinning platter HD's are not used in high vibration environments. If it is going to get pounded, nowadays, people want a SSHD. And those are just as overpriced, compared to cheaper computer technology, as Yamaha's RAM is compared to off the shelf RAM.

And, it's all very well and good to say that computers get a 'major' upgrade every three years or so, but put the same unrealistic expectations on them as you are saying the closed, custom chip based arrangers should have, and they can JUST as easily be said to be dragging their heels. I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) that closed arrangers are built around custom chips and processors, they AREN'T barebones computers inside. The cost of development and pace of innovation in custom chips has ALWAYS been, and will always be, much slower than software running on off the shelf computers. But the benefit is that bombproof reliability.

For the gigging pro, that's WAY more important than bleeding edge capability
Posted by: mr9000

Re: Tyros Memory Expansion - lots of $$$$$ - 09/25/10 02:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
You really should join the 21st century Diki.

Computers go through a major upgrade every 3 years or so,

>>"""not incremental.""<<

Bill


Umm..psst.. "yamaha, now apply this logic to those cleverly disguised faceplates and led color changes you like to release,thx!"