Tyros 4 Sneek Preview

http://www.yamahapkowner.com/?p=2331

I'm sold How could anyone not want to buy a T4 after that lead in.

Interesting..

It looks very much like a T3.

If it sounds anything like T3 also, I wouldn't be interested at all. I like my T3, but it would have to sound completely different to justify the upgrade, we shall wait and see. More of the same won't be good enough to justify changing.

I'm hoping for a machine that would eclipse anything else out there including the Audya.

The Tyros4 will not sound completely different.

My guess is that it is an internal upgrade, much like the S910 was over S900.

Yamaha has an established customer base that already are pleased with the Yamaha sound and operating system.

I believe the Tyros4 is intended for Tyros and Tyros2 owners, as well as PSR users that want to upgrade.

Now is a good time to buy a leftover Tyros3.

Ian

In the pictures it looks like there is an XLR Mic input. They probably did some tweaking to the harmonizer as well.

Start selling off your T3's.......S910's......WOW!!!

Have to agree. The XF8 is not all that much more than the XS8 as an "upgrade". But they did add some nice things and took away some nice things. Added 136 voices (for those who run out of useful voices on the XS8) They took out the FW and made it an option. Added some $300 Flash RAM card options to save samples rather than reload upon start up. All in all still the king of workstations (47% of the market. The additional ARPS are what I would be most interested in.

I exoect the T-4 to be the same. Looks like the Hard Drive is still there (maybe an SSD?) nah.... XLR likely means phantom Power and condenser mike recording which is huge for those who compose and record solely on their their units and those of us who love the Beta 87. (could this mean eight or more of onboard audio recording as well?) Would love to see "direct to USB recording" like the XS has as well.

More SA2 sounds, Styles, Multis, Since the T3 IS a sampler the additional voices are less of an impact. The SA2 Voice packs Yamaha released were pitiful really. I bought the Trombone.

It is my experience that people who don't use Yamaha products have higher expectations of Yamaha products than those who actually like and use them. The s910 was a worthy upgrade for $50 more than the S900. The USB recording and new screen alone was worth that.

It's like DAW software...skip a version for a more intense upgrade experience.

http://www.music-tyros.com/

Impuls

so should i wait till Sept. 17th to buy my AUDYA?

Yamaha always makes high quality demos,
But the actual keyboards (Tyros line) lacks in realism IMO, at least in comparison with AUDYA

KETRON is opposite,
they make crappy demos,
but the keyboard is WAY AWESOME

so too much hype for Yamaha again,
as was Tyros 3,

Yamaha likes to tease, tease, tease,
but we all like to be pleased, pleased, pleased...

but maybe the'll prove me wrong this time around
we'll see on the 17th

Can't say I thought the Audya was anywhere near "awesome", but tastes vary...each of us knows what he/she want to hear coming out of their speakers.

Some think Audya is the best.

Some don't.

Personally, I prefer Yamaha.

That's the beauty of opinions...they can be different and still be right.

Ian

ian,

i guess you are right,
we all have opinions,
Tyros has superb SA voices

but close your eyes,
hear em both live through same PA

and then tell me which sounds like the real deal,
like a "real band"

What???!!! Where did you see that? Those images went so fast I couldn't see anything.

Neither.

Ian

I'm actually feeling very encouraged that the T4 doesn't seem to have any hardware update (besides the XLR input). I'm assuming that means it must have an amazing software and sound update. Maybe even some real sounding drums?

Or is that just naiive?

Hey Cass - the photo is #4 (back end) and it looks like they have the two-way XLR/standard mic input jack combo on there.

I wasn't able to see anything on the teaser other than the 4 pics. When I clicked the link on that page, I just get a blank page.

just wait and see......shall we?

chony,

if you consider these awesome sounding drums
then YES,

the TYROS4 is for you
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/LKSd3tvbnEA/

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-01-2010).]

Lee, how long have you had your "awesome" Audya?

Ian

My only question is when is Yamaha going to "stop beating a dead horse" already?

Nothing radical has occurred since the original Tyros, in my opinion, only some improvement with the introduction of Super Articulation/2 and some minor cosmetics e.g. sliders, etc.; since the original Tyros already included Mega Voice technology and a huge LCD screen, etc. In fact, (and don't laugh) the Drums on the Tyros4 sound worse than the Drums on the original Tyros in my opinion. And that Irish song sounds "horrible" if you ask me.

Not to worry though, as most assuredly Yamaha will most likely sell a boat load of Tyros4' having realized a long time ago they can pretty much "put anything out there" and their devoted customer base will fall head over heels in love taking the 'incremental' bait "hook, line, and sinker - as always." And Yamaha laughs all the way to the bank... beating another dead horse to a pulp in the process. But what do I know.

If people keep buying their enormously expensive incremental upgrade keyboards Yamaha will gladly keep doling them out to you. When people "demand" something more than just 'smoke and mirrors' and minor incremental improvements (and withhold their wallets until such a time) then, and only then, will Yamaha (and others) start to produce something of real significance and considered "par excellence." Until then, mediocrity (incrementalism) will be the new normal - all because people "don't give a hoot" - apparently. How's that to brighten your day?

All the best,
Mike

He doesn't have one Ian.....yet?

I guess no one is listening to your train of thought Mike as the T4 will outsell the T3 by a mile, as the throngs of loyal worldwide players love them....and why not? they sound AWESOME!!! and are so easy to play & operate... Yamaha will have another winner on September 17th for sure!

It appears the "dead horse" has begun another life cycle, Michael.

Appears that you and several other naysayers, not buying a Tyros has had little effect on the Tyros' accomplishments and longevity.

What some people fail to realize, is that Tyros, in all it's iterations, is, and has been, a success.

A radical change would mean an entirely new instrument that would not use the Tyros name, so incremental changes are the norm for each new Tyros model.

Just my views,

Ian

People who don't use the Tyros, Don't care for the Tyros have the highest expectations of the Tyros....I find that amusing. While those of us that love them get crumbs and give Yamaha credit for a meal......

Ah Human Nature......

If all you're getting is crumbs, you are getting to the table too late...

Ah the stupidity...

An opinion that differs from yours does not equate to stupidity!
Most of us have our favorite brands. I really don't. I wish Yamaha would come up with something to knock our socks off. I suspect they won't. Hope I'm wrong.
DonM

Hey, don't read things into my post that aren't there...that's not one bit nice.

Please say an act of contrition.

Looks like Tyros 4 can have up to 1GB of Flash Memory installed.
http://www.jazzhooves.com/2010/09/tyros-4-announced-yes-its-true/

Excellent

I thought someone mentioned the vocal harmonizer is either new, or very much improved.

Of course, there is no way of substantiating the information, but all will be revealed soon enough.

Ian

Unless Yamaha have a pro rack Harmonizer somewhere in their product lineup, where on earth are they going to come up with the technology for a pro Harmonizer to put in an arranger?

Auto-tune and other pitch correctors and harmony generators is some of the hottest software being used today, on just about ALL commercial productions. But Yamaha do not have a significant contender in this field. Expecting the first incarnation of something that IS world-class to appear in an obscure product line without having been splashed all over the rack processor division first is optimistic beyond belief, IMO.

BTW, the earlier contention:



is optimistic (or fanboy gushing, again). Did the T3 outsell even the T2? Somehow, in today's economy, I doubt it. Will the T4 outsell the T3? With the recession still raging, I doubt it. I would be very surprised to hear anything other than the T2 was the best selling Tyros so far, hitting the bubble just perfectly, loads of disposable income, and SA as a VERY significant improvement (so far missing from any subsequent Tyros) to justify the move.

It still astounds me that anyone would even CONSIDER upgrading on such a tiny timeline, especially how little the upgrade gives you. I know, I know, a fool and his money are easily parted, but in these economic times, there has GOT to be a lot fewer fools around! A few sounds, a few features (very few, from all evidence so far!), a few new styles... you are going to ditch a well loved piece of gear you have worked hard to master, customize and become intimate with, for so little...?

BTW, this isn't just Yamaha users. An awful lot of us equate a newer arranger with being better players. Boy, have I got bad news for you! I would be willing to bet that, in a blind listening test, unless a recognizably new sound was featured front and center, few of us here could tell a T2 from a T3. Especially in a user demo. Same for PA1 against PA2, G70 against E80, etc.. Heck, I've heard some SD1 stuff that was VERY close to some Audya demos..!

Until the difference is night and day, until there is no doubt what model you are hearing from the first note onwards, why are you chucking money away and getting so little for it? Surely you don't think it is going to make YOU better? I guarantee, take the $1500 or so that trading up would have cost you, and spend it on a GOOD teacher, you will THINK you have bought a new arranger when you listen to yourself play

Regarding harmonizer, I suspect Yamaha will licence the technology, or buy the company...they already use the Aural Exciter by Aphex in their arrangers.

Tyros4 is not intended for Tyros3 or even Tyros2 players to upgrade...the owners of older (or maybe newer) mid-range PSR and the original Tyros are the intended victims...er...buyers.

Ian

PS...I hope things are going well playing-wise Diki.

PSS...I sold more Tyros3 than Tyros2...can't explain why.

T4......14 more days can't wait!!

T4!! I can't wait either!!

I remember that before the first Tyros 3 was even seen, there was the usual negative speculation about what it would be. I just don't get it. I will remain positive with my speculation. I've had PSR2000. PSR3000, Tyros2 and Tyros3 and haven't been disappointed yet. Bring it on!!!!! -charley

Charlie I can sense your excitement September 17th isn't far away!!!

IS this anything more then a cosmetic upgrade to an 8 year old "technology" product?

its the 3rd time yammaha updates their Tyros line with nothing but some fluff..

Where is the inovation that could save the arranger product in general?

Arrangers need to be saved? Yeah, sure.

They are alive and well in my area.

Perhaps no one is promoting them enough in yours to make a difference?

Ian

Lee,
I don't want it to sound like a real band..I want it to sound like a real ORCHESTRA!
And have playing features to allow me to play like a real orchetra.

Lee S.

Diki,
Yep, You are right..BUT, we want a new arranger or whatever because we like the new better sounds & styles, it's FUN!
Don't you like to have fun with a new instrument?

In a way it does make you a better player because you are more INSPIRED!

If the voices sound better and more real, and the styles wrk better with a song, it's more fun to play that song...because it does sound better. Repeat, it does sound better.

Will it bring you up to a much higher level of skill, NOT, but it may ispire to be better and practice more.

That's mu 2 cents worth, based on 45 years of playing and buying instruments.

Lee S.

http://www.arons.com/tyros4/index.php?option=com_jphoto&view=gallery&id=12:detail-fotos-tyros-4&Itemid=10 - More Pics
http://www.arons.com/verschil_tyros1234.pdf - T4 Specs

[This message has been edited by DannyUK (edited 09-11-2010).]

Thanks Danny...specs were what we pretty much expected.

Now to hear it...that will be the clincher.

Ian

Looks like they've worked on the drums a bit!

They did exactl;y the same as with the Motif...

They used the same hardware(processor and soundhardware) and added the much needed flash ram...

To make it look like a new instrument they added a some sounds and drums and some styles.

Its still the same technollogy as the T3... When Korg bings new sounds and styles in a package they call it a free update...

Couldn't they just have made a Flash memmory update that would fit in the T3's dimm memmory slots?



[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 09-11-2010).]

Of course it is the same technology, Bachus; it is a "Tyros" after all. In fact, the basic engineering goes back quite some way, but mostly back to the original Tyros.

It works, and it works successfully, both sonically and economically.

If it were to be a completely new instrument, with a new sound generator, and other new technology, it would not be called a Tyros model anymore...it would have a new name.

Korg's last free update was when?

I doubt you'll see anymore, if there is a new Korg PA on the way.

Ian

Well as long as people that buy these instruments can live with that, i guess Yamaha is right to do things like this.....

Thats how they are able to stay in business especially in this economy.

Looks like they added the ability to use SA voices as part of the style... that ought to raise the bar a bit!
Polyphony remains the same (but 128 ought to be sufficient!). A LOT more voices, especially SA stuff,
but we'll have to wait and see whether all these new voices use new samples, or are just variations on the
same sample set. Ditto for the drums...

Flash RAM is going to change the game, albeit expensively, but Yamaha are still locked into their own
proprietary multisample format, no Akai import or Soundfonts etc., so the choice you get to fill it
will still remain in Yamaha's (so far) miserly hands. It is LONG past time Yamaha opened up their samplers
(Motif's have the same problem) to the largest sample collection out there.

Oh, and Lee... no, on the whole, I'm far more gratified to coax new sounds out of what I already
have, to learn to better PLAY it, to make it a part of my playing. Constantly removing your familiarity with
your gear by upgrading long before you've exhausted
the current one's possibilities is a game for those with more income than sense, IMO

We got a price in the US on the T4 yet? Apparently, the MoXF comes in at exactly the same price as the
XS, despite its' improved capabilities. Is Yamaha keeping the price on its' arranger products as static?
Knowing Yamaha, I doubt it. Better get some lube handy

Demo day is over at Pakefield...where's all the details of the T4?
Come on Guys & Gals...Give!
Please...

Lee S.

No one buys an instrument because they are forced to get it...Yamaha's elder arrangers (PSR-8000/9000/3000/2000), as well as those golden oldies from Roland like the G-70 and G-1000 are still viable, and still in use with many happy owners who are still creating new sounds, styles and great music on them.

The Tyros4 will have it's supporters and detractors, just like any other company's arrangers, and it looks to be a fairly substantial upgrade from the Tyros3, especially in the drums/percussion and SA voices, the latter of which are doubled (same for mega voices).

I'm looking forward to hearing and playing it, and hopefully I'll have one on my sample account in the very near future.

I was holding off getting anything new, hoping I'd spring for an S910 at the end of their cycle (cheaper again), but if I really like the Tyros4, I just might end up with one...I don't do much gigging anymore, just a lot of recording, so it would be a terrific tool for my needs.

Ian

I'd be interested in finding out, if you trumpeted it loud and clear and constantly, that pretty near ALL
the new styles for the T4 would be ported over to the T3/T2, etc., how many would reconsider buying one...

After all, all of the T3's styles were eventually re-voiced for the T2 910's for the 900, etc..

Sure, there's usually a few months' wait, but they ARE going to come. And sure, they won't sound
EXACTLY the same. But they'll still be VERY welcome to older arranger players. I've got a sneaky feeling
that those new styles is often (along with a couple of lead sounds) really the ONLY reason some people
upgrade...

Well, this time round, remind yourselves that those styles WILL be available before you start getting all
weak at the knees at upgrading to the T4...

Good things come to those that wait!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-11-2010).]

Diki,

You never have, and never will be able to put true-full words like those ones. I only hope, that we all can remember them.

Thanks !!!!

[This message has been edited by Machetero (edited 09-11-2010).]

I hope I can remember them when I start playing the Tyros4, but I have a feeling my memory will fail.

Of course, having a new Tyros4 in my studio is certainly not a bad thing.

At 61, I'm not much in the mood for waiting...life is short enough.

Ian

Ian,
I hear you...I'm 61 too!
I just watched a special on PBS featuring Broadway musical theatre...Wonderful.
Lee S.

I'm really excited about this. If they've indeed added 30 drum kits, I can't ask for more. It will make the board sound entirely different. Hopefully they also added some realistic bass samples.

Frankly I don't give a hoot about the onboard styles as I literally don't use a single one during my performances. I'm totally custom.

There are 2 things I wish the T4 would add:
- more flash RAM. 6mb is an improvement but on my Korg Pa2x I had 20MB and it still wasn't enough
- compatibility with mainstream samples

The flash memory is good but remember if you max out the flash memory it could take the T4 some time to load.

Yamaha is going to release sounds for the XF I wonder if you would be able to load the XF sounds on the T4?

I think although the T4 is not a major upgrade, it is a good way of keeping the Tyros line fresh at almost no cost to Yamaha.

And then made from PLASTIC , plastic by name plastic by nature! Did I just say that, wait for the BOOOOOM ! They burn well!

No Bachus, then you wouldn't be buying a new KB, in other words you would be buying plastic with your plastic.

I beleive the XF allows you to import samples and soundsets from your favourite VST's.

Can't those be tranformed to T4 format (if it isn't allready the same)

DREAMS, DREAMS, DREAMS........

Unless things have changed radically, all Yamaha allow you to do is either import their sound format,
already formatted for the Tyros, with the multisamples and vel-splits and voice programming
already done. But they are expensive and Yamaha release VERY few... after all these years bitching,
Yamaha have STILL to release a good drum kit in sampler form. Talk about NOT listening to your
customers! Currently, there are only a tiny few choices, and the Tyros has had a sampler on board
since the T1, haven't they? That works out to maybe one sound a year, on average! Hardly enough to
justify the capability, honestly.

After that, Yamaha have NO multisample import. That means, if you are trying to import a soundfont set, or
the raw data of a VSTi, you have to laboriously import each and every single sample, which can run to
HUNDREDS for a multi-velocity piano or drum kit, etc.. THEN you have to make sure that the pitch
range and velocity range is exactly the same as how each sample is used in the original instrument, THEN
you have to voice each sample with the voice programming yourself...

On a Korg, you can import Akai multisample sets in one go. All the samples, already mapped out onto the
keyboard for you... Yes, you'll STILL have to do the voice programming (unless you can substitute the
multisample for a ROM set of the same kind of sound, and use some voice programming already worked out
- but it's still pretty heavily dependent on how the sample sounds), but you have saved yourself HOURS,
if not days, recreating a complex multisample layout.

Having the capability to do something, but making it so labor-intensive generally means that VERY few will
actually use it. Yamaha need to add Akai and soundfont import if they want people to take the
sampler seriously on a Tyros. Currently, it is a mere marketing hook, forcing you to buy your voices (VERY
expensively) from Yamaha, when they are generous enough to even make any...

The MoXF's voice architecture is very different from the T4's. I highly doubt you will be able to import XF
voices into a T4.

You want to make a product that will sell well, James? Make a program that automatically converts Akai
multisamples into Yamaha's format!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-12-2010).]

Dili,
Yep!...That's why it is NOT a PRO arranger/WS.

If you call to Yamaha and complain they will say the same as they did me on several T2 issues...YOU DON'T NEED THAT...EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS IN THERE, IT IS A HOME KEYBOARD.

That's OK, everyon just has to know what you are getting.
I think the people who buy a T1-4 etc and just use it the way it is are the happiest.

Lee S.

Conversion to Tyros 2 format http://www.extranslator.com/index.php?page=exsc