Do I really need an arranger ?

I've played an arranger as my main or secondary keyboard for over 15 years now. I originally wanted it to replace the drum machine (TR505) my bandmates were complaining about. I was doing almost all my music with the drum machine until I found MIDI files, then went almost exclusively to using them - leaving the arranger for the odd song that we needed to play.

For the past six months I have been completely solo, still with my arranger but doing about 80/20 midi/styles. I dropped my G70 because of the weight and bulk, but miss the 76 keys and the good keyfeel.

I'm thinking that maybe I should find a nioe digi piano or midi controller and opt out of the styles all together. I still have an Alesis SR16 for drum patterns on the easy stuff and midis for the rest.

What are your thoughts on this subject? What other keyboards might I consider at this time of my life? I'm playing a S900, but just not getting a lot of satisfaction. What about a Juno Stage 76? I would need to be able to play my SMF through the keyboard, as I don't really want to go back to the PC. Other ideas are Sonic Cell, MidJ, something by Casio??? I'm looking for good alternatives to the standard OMB with an arranger keyboard.

Cass, the Juno stage 76 has a nice feel and will play SMF/wave/Mp3 files..It also has enough drum patterns 6 variations each..and you can save your own..

The drawback for me..16 parts..that means the part you play on the keys is also a sequence part....This is why I sold mine..

The Prelude is 19 parts..has lyric read on version 2, and can store my G70 styles...only 61 keys but the key feel is not as good as the Juno Stage..but much better than the PSR's ..no matter what Ian says..

If you are keeping your current PSR..the Juno Stage would be a nice keyboard to "play"..It is light and solid..but $1,300..

The Prelude was the better option for me over the Juno Stage..

Yep, agree 100% on the Juno Stage keybed. It is really nice to play. Has a nice weight and has the longer keys that make playing piano pieces more enjoyable.

Unlike Fran I did not have issues using track 16 as my part. The most tracks I have in a midi is 5. I DID miss aftertouch though. One of the reasons I sold mine along with the song list functions were a tad fiddly and the screen a bit small.

Dennis

If you were right, I'd agree with you Fran, but I'm afraid after trying out a Juno Stage, Prelude and a GW-8 whilst on tour two weeks ago, I can say with all honesty that the PSR-S900 has at least an equal feel to all three, and perhaps better than the latter two.

Now, if you were talking G70, or E-80, I'd be inclined to agree, but you're not, and I don't.

I will agree that the Juno Stage has a better keybed than the GW-8/Prelude...they were very cheap feeling, and I was actually surprised, as I tried the GW-8 several months ago, but I guess I've been a bit spoiled by the S910.

I also thought the screens on the GW-8 and Prelude a bit small and hard to read, especially after being used to the screen on my S910, which is a smaller version of the T3's.

I was also disappointed the Juno Stage did not have aftertouch, a glaring omission on an otherwise very decent synthesizer with a nice 76-note keybed...of course, the other was lack of styles, but if all one plays is SMF and MP3, that shouldn't be a bother...it would work very well for Cassp if he was to go 100% SMF.

This is not because I think Yamaha is the best(which I do), but more of an opinion formed after a very objective assessment of these instruments.

I was thinking about getting a Prelude/GW-8, but the lack of on-board style assembly was a deal breaker for me. Even Yamaha's entry level PSR-S550 has it. Shame on Roland, and may they wake up and add it as an OS upgrade, if possible.

Happy Holiday, and a Merry Christmas to you.

Ian

PS. Strange D&D aren't back yet...I was under the impression the ban had been lifted by now.

I am not sure, and perhaps Ian can confirm..But I do remember reading somewhere that the PSR s910 uses the same FSX keybed that is on the Motif XS6??? (and tyros 2/3)

If so, no wonder Ian likes the S910 because the FSX keybeds are very nice to play (for a synth action that is). I have not played a 910, but I have played the XS keybeds..And very nice they are too!

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 12-22-2009).]

Dennis, the PSR-S910 does not use the FSX keybed.

In my opinion, the S910 is what the S900 should have been.

It sounds much more robust, and there have been no quality issues whatsoever, unlike the S900, which came out of the gate with a few problems, that were eventually corrected on later models.

The Roland Stage is a really nice synth, and would be great if you were playing in a band, or playing solo using only SMF. I thought it had a really nice piano sound, which went well with the extended keybed(76) and I also thought the organs and strings were very well done.

Aftertouch would have really increased it's desirability factor.

Ian

Ahh okay, thanks for clearing that up for me Ian. I probably misread that information.

Dennis

As for the stage, I agree Ian, aftertouch definitely!!

And you are right it was good for using in exactly that manner. Probably would have been a nice fit running the S910 and the Stage together

I did look at the S900 when it arrived out here, and I ws not too impressed so I wnet along a different path. HAD they released the 900 as the 910, after reading the specs, it may have been different. especially as the 910 is using the T3 arranger engine.

Dennis

I'm pretty pleased with the S910...it appears to be more like the Tyros2 in the sound department, but very much like the Tyros3 with the style engine...it has the new guitar emulation in the accompaniment like the T3.

I find it has the sweeter sound of the T2 as far as the sounds go.

Sorry if I'm straying off topic, Cassp.

Ian

For a change I am with Ian here I have had the GW8 and as far as I know this keyboard has the same keybed the Prelude use and I don't like it. A few weeks ago I played the psr s910 and the keys of this keyboard feels and plays much better then the GW8. The main reason I get rid of the GW8 was because of the keys.

And Cassp although the Juno Stage is a great synth you should also listen to the Korg M50. A little bit more expensive then the juno but much more features and the sound engine of the M3. If money is no issue then go for the Yamaha Motif XS7.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 12-23-2009).]

Cass,

Like you, I replaced my drum machine with a keyboard, but it didn't solve the problem. The band members were still complaining. The reason they complained, however, was because they couldn't keep time worth a damned! They, like many others who play an occasional weekend job, could not keep time with a strictly regimented beat. So, when I purchased my first keyboard there was no difference--they couldn't keep time with it as well. When I purchased the next keyboard, a Yamaha PSR-500, I replaced the lead guitar player, the bass player, the rhythm guitar player and the problem was solved. I can keep time just fine with the keyboard, don't need to split the proceeds with anyone and I only have to worry about one person showing up on time--ME!

So, to answer your initial question "Do I need an arranger?" Well, the simple answer is yes, unless you have the burning desire to hire a drummer, bass player, lead guitar player, rhythm guitar player, haul a ton of gear around, spend an hour setting up and tearing down, put up with guys who can't agree on volume levels, timing, song selection, etc... NAH! Stick with the arranger keyboard. Which keyboard you select depends upon your individual needs and those of your audiences.

Merry Christmas Old Friend,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 12-23-2009).]

Around here, there are jobs in dining rooms and corporate events that work fine with just a piano and/or guitar. Thing is, with an arranger, you can do a greater variety of gigs.

My challenge is to use arrangers when they "help the cause", but not use them as a crutch.


Good luck!


Russ

Like you - I only use midi files and bought the Roland Juno DI. It plays midi-files and only weights 11 pounds. I'm selling it for $500 and you can store 399 songs

Russ I don't see an arranger as a crutch (meaning not playing?)..I use an arranger in piano mode most of the time...that is both hands playing..what more can we do? No crutch as I see it...maybe you mean something other than a crutch..

No, Fran, I mean crutch. There are players in this area who either use all the features of an arranger (badly) because they can't play, or are too lazy to put anything but the minimum effort into the job.


I don't want to be one of those players....EVER!


R.

I'm one of those very lazy guys who uses the accompaniment to the max.

I love having the keyboard do most of the work.

I assemble my own styles, and have a great time doing it.

All I want to do is play chords in the left hand, and play the melody with the right.

It's a nice break from playing solo piano.

Ian the Indolent

Same here, and I sing. I love every aspect of an arranger keyboard, and its versatility makes it a stand-alone instrument that is second to none. You could not pay me enough to go back to playing a 12-string guitar as a solo instrument, and playing the piano is out of the question--I don't possess that kind of talent.

Cheers,

Gary

I have found that, on the whole, if you are using a drum machine for a live band or arranger drum section, if your live players have trouble keeping time (if they don't suck with a live drummer as well, that is ) it is usually due to how easy it is for them to 'swamp' the machine, which doesn't have a fraction of the dynamics of a real drummer, nor automatically gets louder when the rest of the band does...

Only solution I have found to this is to make sure that the drum section of your arranger goes to separate outputs (if your arranger has them) and to run them through their own dedicated monitor rig onstage if possible, or at least make them hotter in the band's monitors than the regular keyboard parts. And, if your arranger has a function where the ACC (especially the drum Part) gets louder or quieter depending on how hard you play, set that up so that, if you have to start banging a bit harder because the other guys start getting frisky, at least the drums will get frisky with them!

This, in my experience, has solved all timing problems with live players that I have experienced. If they can play well with a REAL drummer, all it takes is recreating the 'real drummer' experience for them... and if they can't play well even with a real drummer, what are you doing playing with them, anyway?

I had the same trouble with my band. I thought they were just old(older than me), deaf, or weren't paying attention, and I had the drums turned up. I guess it sounded loud to me, but on the other side of the room, playing a horn, it is quite different. It makes sense to me.