I No longer loath Mr.West

Well i finally got around to watching that Kayne West & Taylor Swift thing,now i find myself in a complete neutral position so i NO longer 'loath' Mr.West!
Taylor Swift's video being best video??are you kidding,unfortunatly not.
I'm starting to think there was a cluster of folks that were disgruntled by Taylor getting the nod. I could see Taylor being "Best new artist",But Beyounce's 'Put a ring on it' completely BLOWS the doors off any of swift's work,look at beyounce's dance routine in that video,then look at a Swift's video and innocence,poppy beats, about first love type material and non physical non dance action,rather only emotion,there not much skill going on there. 'Put a ring on it' is a tune that is easily recalled even at this very moment for me,but i cannot for the life of me rehash in my head how any of Swifts melodies go.I think Kanye was simply seeing some sort of corruption going on is what the issue was here,i mean even i could sense the fustration when he was up on the stage ranting about..there's another stroy going on that was unfolded behind closed CEO doors i suspect.

[This message has been edited by mr9000 (edited 09-21-2009).]

Well I'm not saying I agree with you entirely. I still think is was rude and insensitive and that he was a jerk for doing it. I just didn't think it was worthy of all the vitriol (a huge amount of it racial) it generated in the days following.

What is more interesting to me is a concept that I used to teach in a volunteer counseling program in the local prison (a program called THRESHOLDS). The concept was to DECIDE rather than REACT (which is like deciding from a list of ONE options). One example is to count to ten before you haul off and pop someone. Putting a little distance in there just might be enough time for you to consider some other option. Works better than you might think.

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 09-21-2009).]

I'll agree that the Beyonce video was far superior, and that she is a better singer/ performer on all levels.

It's the interruption of the broadcast and the disrespect for the process and the other performer that bothers me. Combine that with the fact that West can't sing a note and showed his ass in a similar way last year.

I agree with what he said about the superiority of the other video. I just loath the way he made is opinions known.

You can often win a battle but lose the war. He showed bad form all the way around.

The guy's a jerk!


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-21-2009).]

I totally agree his delivery was way off the mark,but there's something more to this little story than meets the eye i just know.
I just didn't want my original 'Loath' thread to stick,as i'm no longer swayed on that side of the fence no longer of Mr.West being 100% at fault,new numbers around
70-ish% at fault.Music execs were playing around with something here.Taylor should of got
"Best new artist" or something complimentary,she's still in the testing waters arena for me,like Britney when she was a virgin still.Taylor's music is alot like Mandy moores when she was first in the spot light,very entry level relationship focused with globs of still a virgin,not that i'm picking on that,just saying thats how it comes accross..and usually in 2yrs they don't have anymore staying power.



[This message has been edited by mr9000 (edited 09-21-2009).]

mr9000 ... I can't imagine that Taylor Swift could EVER make a video that would be better than Beyonce's ... if she does, Beyonce should fire her producers ...
But that doesn't make Kayne West ANY LESS WRONG with what he did ...
Giving the award to Taylor Swift may have shown POOR judgment, but what Kanye did showed NO judgment ... it was a rude and ignorant move on his part and he DISrespected EVERYONE there ...
He is STILL 100% wrong for doing what he did ...

chas ... once again 'media hype' fans the flames ...

t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-21-2009).]

I can't believe that anyone seriously thinks that the fix isn't in for any of these media conglomerate driven, so called 'award shows', and I can't believe that Kanye West, after being the beneficiary of the fix being in in the past, wasn't acutely aware of it being 'in' for little Taylor Swift this time around.

What a storm in a teacup! As if there weren't things of monumental import actually going on the same minute in the US as well as around the world. That this should have taken a millisecond away from our attention to health care reform, financial regulation needs and the Wars (yes, there are still more than one!), let alone the President's, is merely a sign of how far we have fallen...

Reality check, folks. These things have ALWAYS been fixed, always will be fixed, and some prat will always pull some desperate stunt to attract attention.

Next.

Don't the fans vote for these awards?
"Taylor Swift Wins Best Female Video"

And didn't Beyoncé win the top prize?

"Beyoncé Wins Video Of The Year"

She Beat out male, female, group......

or is it just that Swift is a "country pop" artist that makes us think she is not deserving?

maybe the teen girls that vote could relate to her song or the artist

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-22-2009).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeathome1:
[B]Don't the fans vote for these awards?
"Taylor Swift Wins Best Female Video"
And didn't Beyoncé win the top prize?
is it just that Swift is a "country pop" artist that makes us think she is not deserving?
maybe the teen girls that vote could relate to her song or the artist
QUOTE]

It is NOT about what genre of music a artist comes from at all!It is about substance,quality etc.Swift's work is so lackluster when it comes to video's.Why are teenies so dominant in the voting,where are the adults?are they excluded in their precious little scamed out polls?
If Taylor gets the nod of reconition,well then i want to see 'Lights' and
'Pussycat Dolls'('Jai HO',thats an awesome eastern sounding little diddy!) get some complimentary awards for their work also?have they NOT recieved any
awards because they are NOT country then?There are way more deserving artist than Taylor's work,she hasn't really even found herself yet,as her music is based on first loves & overly innocence and girly stuff that's just not applicable to adult ears, she WILL go the way of 'oh ya i remember her whatever happened to her" in a few years should she keep this entry level first relationships on her fore front.I surely would not of voted her in,and it has nothing to do with hatred or genre,there's truthfully just not much going on beatwise/emotion and more to the point She's just not ready for fighting in the music octagon like ring YET(keyword)..she's cute!..cute doesn't equate receivership of such awards,and this is where the rudeness of Kayne stepped in,he was merely just a fustrated rant that forgot he was'nt online and that could just easily delete his post/behaviour,he was pointing out a "are you kidding me" statement,though it bit into his fancy lad arse.
I guess it took me until 2009 to say "hey
wait a second,this is clearly favoritism/pull going on before me"


[This message has been edited by mr9000 (edited 09-22-2009).]

mr9000 You're kidding, right ?!? ... do you know ANY ADULTS who vote for these things??? ... do YOU vote ??? ... does anyone here KNOW WHERE to vote???
Does anyone here vote in these polls ... c'mon ... if you vote for these awards raise your hand ... right or left, this is a non-political poll ...
This stuff is all about the teeny-boppers ...

t.

Well that sparks my interest,how are the teenies voting?
Does anyone know this?Perhaps this what was behind the entire 'Project Kayne'..i mean why don't those with maturity V.S. those baring zits seek this issue out?why don;t we vote/care who's voted into musical prestige,offices?

Somehow the 'young ones' find this stuff out ...Perhaps the adults don't see it as that important ... and we have enough problems voting for our city, state, and Federal leaders !!!
And before the incendiary flames are fanned, I DO NOT MEAN THAT AS A REFLECTION ON ANY INDIVIDUAL OR POLITICAL PARTY CURRENTLY IN OFFICE!!!

t.

"she hasn't really even found herself yet,as her music is based on first loves & overly innocence and girly stuff that's just not applicable to adult ears"

exactly now you understand! A target audience that's not us. speaking solely for myself, of course.

It is after all, a popularity contest, not a musical contest.
I've probably never heard anything Taylor Swift does but anyone that sells a few million records and has a that number of fans deserves some respect in the "Entertainment Industry".

where should we start the list bay city rollers, Kiss, Jonas Bros, New Kids....... every generation has them.
My generation had bubble gum, psychedelic, the twist, Monkeys, disco... all the fads some more successful than others but none of them accused of turning out great musical master pieces.
My father thought the Beatles were a communist plot to take over the youth of America.

What if that jerk did that to Sinatra or Jeff Beck or one of the Jazz greats or someone, anyone that you do respect.

It was wrong, it was selfish, self indulgent and the epitome of bad manners and destructive behavior. And I understand he has disrupted shows in the past,.. he should be banned from the building for future shows.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-22-2009).]

To even suggest that it's ok because of who he did it to is equally in bad taste.
In my humble opinion

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-22-2009).]

LOL! Mike. That gave me a chuckle. A night manager at a certain USAF base banned us from playing 'Back in The U.S.S.R.' because he thought it was a pro-Communist song.

Democracy, whether for national affairs or for a popularity competition, is only as representative as the watchdogs MAKE it.

What worries me, especially since the election of 2000, is how cavalierly we accept the results, either when tight (as in 2000) or when obviously obtained by fraud (as in Afghanistan), or when no-one has any idea of the mechanism for counting the vote. Is there anything to stop someone 'voting' at the VMA's multiple times for an artist they like. Do they have ANY say whatsoever in who get nominated? Is there ANY third party supervision of the count?

We should take as much notice of who 'wins' these VMA 'elections' as we do of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 'win' in Iran. Basically, as soon as you know the fix is 'in', ignore these idiots completely..! In a way, Kanye's outburst at the VMA's means as much as the orchestrated anti-Ahmadinejad protests, 'organized' by his opposition (who, from all media accounts, is hardly ANY improvement over Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ). It's just one prat getting all up in the grille of another about an election they BOTH knew was fixed

So from now on anybody that jumps on stage grabs a mic and interrupts a performance, it's perfectly alright because of the election in IRAN?

And just exactly how do you extrapolate that from my post?

Is there a single sentence that says it's alright?

Double post

[This message has been edited by mr9000 (edited 09-23-2009).]

Well then,if it's just a target audience that's not us..why ever do we care for the kayne/taylor episode that went down to begin with,if were not inclusive to the event..why then are the adults 'suddenly' boo'n and responding to and bothering to make a stink about it?
However,my anger towards this entire event is completely at a luke warm state,as i shall never even watch this madness of scripted crap ever again,they lost a whole viewer to ever waste another heartbeat over their 'popularity contests,oh the humanity of my eternal absence!Alas,it is you i loath music corpration in your infancy elementary schooling.
R.I.Pieces VMA's.



[This message has been edited by mr9000 (edited 09-23-2009).]

Because it wasRUDE AND IGNORANT BEHAVIOR ...
What is it about that you do not understand mr9000?
... my being 'angered' - and I think the same holds true for a lot of others - had nothing to do with WHO did it or WHY he did it, but the fact THAT he did it ... no human being has the right to insult another like that NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON !!!

t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-23-2009).]

Tony, I think we ALL thought it was rude (I don't really like the word 'ignorant') behavior. But I think the question mr9000 is asking is, WHY DOES IT BOTHER US SO MUCH? Rude behavior happens in the music business all the time, but we ignore 99% of it, not try to conjure up a lynch mob. As mr9000 pointed out, this isn't even a segment of the music industry that most of us (ol' farts) even care about. So why such an 'over-the-top' emotional response. I asked a few posts back if the response would have been the same if the principals had been different people. I'll let you (as in 'each of you') answer that for yourself.

Sometimes mr9000 makes a lot of sense once you decode his messages . At least he took the time to rethink his position. I admire people who can do that.

An interesting side note: not once during all of this, the incident and the aftermath, did Mr. West go 'potty mouth', which is way more than we can say about those who would have him drawn and quartered.

chas

That's the part that bothers me chas ... why SHOULDN'T we be bothered by rude behavior (I'll drop the ignorant part because that implies a lack of knowledge - and Kanye West should have known better) ...

I increasingly see the deterioration of respectful behavior in society so I get upset with that ... as I've said before, look at what the children are watching even under the title of 'children's shows' such as seen on the Disney channel: wisecrack comments to other kids and adults; lack of respect for other people and or their property; etc., etc., etc. ... I won't even go into the video 'games' ... How will this society interact with each other in 20, 30 years ... how are they interacting with each other NOW ???

I look at this situation no differently than two adults having a conversation and another just barges in and talks over the one who was speaking ... it is RUDE behavior...
And YES, I think the Senator who yelled "LIAR" was RUDE ...

And as far as the 'potty mouth', good for him... but I still consider what he did as rude behavior ...

And while I may not be long for this world, I worry about the society my grandchildren will be surrounded by ...

t.

PS sorry chas ... I misread your reply and had to make a slight change to mine ...

t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-24-2009).]

chas ... I am not just upset over this incident ... I am pretty active in campaigning against MUCH of what is shown on TV and movies, broadcast over the airwaves, etc.

Next target - "Mixed Martial Arts" on CBS network TV ...
Michael Vick went to jail for allowing pit bulls to fight each other into submission ... we put two humans in a ring with the same intent and call it sport ...
How CBS can find moral justification to put MMA on national 'free' TV is beyond me ...

t.

PS ... I'll get off my soap box now ...
and "Back to the music" ...

t.


[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-24-2009).]

No Tony, don't get off your soapbox. You're preaching to the choir as I agree with you 100%. In fact a 'true believer' against violence and rude behavior in general, like you, is not the person I'm referring to in my post. It's the hardcore 'haters' who look for incidents like this as an excuse to unleash their true feelings on social issues that have little to do with this specific event. I don't consider you a part of THAT group. As Diki pointed out, there are lots more things happening in this world right now for us to get riled up about than this singular incident.

chas

AGREED ......
Not referring to this incident, the problem is too many of us let 'single incidents' go by without a word, and then before you know it, it becomes 'overlooked' - if not accepted - behavior ...
We need more 'singers' in our 'choir' ...
t.

In all fairness, we can't really blame the younger generations for this malaise. WE gave them years of 'self-esteem' based education and childrearing. WE gave them the 'Just Do It!' mentality, WE gave up on generations of child rearing experience for 'time outs' and trying to 'persuade' our kids the error of their ways. WE got so self absorbed in our own venal greed and crass materialism that they could not HELP but pick it up from us (and when I say WE, I mean us Boomers and Greatest Generation types).

We sowed the seeds of this crop. Educators, advertising executives and television programmers from OUR generation started all this. We don't honestly have much moral high ground to criticize the inevitable consequences...

That's true. The only 'time out' we got was an EMT trying to revive us.

chas

About the only 'time out' that was ever effective on my hellion younger years was the threat that I was forbidden to play the piano for a week, or so.

But that wasn't satisfying to my Dad often enough!