What's going on with Ketron & Audya

Hi all,

Drumremix has removed all the pages he put on KETRON for the OS3, was there ever a OS3 in the planning, it's a big jump from 2.0C to 3.. AJ has never posted a thread or answered one for some time, I know most people don't look at the KETRON site, but does anyone know what is going on, if you look on YOUTUBE there are only a few more addition using Audya the KETRON flagship, or TITANIC.

I have a direct email address for someone in KETRON Italy and he has stopped answering my email
complaints, perhaps there is a OS3 cure all the problems in one go, AH AH AH AH.
just around the corner???

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-05-2009).]

I can't answer for Ketron, but in Italy, The country practically shuts down for August. So you should start hearing from them soon.


I hope

Audya is still under development, in a year or more it must be a great sounding arranger.

But for now ....


Tough i remember PA2x and G70 release and many people not being happy at all with their new tools.

The only one that seems being able to build a system thats reliable on release day is Yamaha. But then T3 is still where T2 was 3 years ago, and people seem to get bored with those yamahaha's very fast...


I am sure that when OS 3.0 for Audya releases it will be a major step forward. Sadly i think that Ketron needs atleast one or 2 more versions to have the product where it should have been at release.

Ketron Italy takes most of August off. OS Version 3.0 is for real, as I have a beta copy of it, but I cannot share it.
I should have another Audya is about a week. I'm told the latest shipment left there by ship a few days ago.
DonM

Don,

If you have a beta of 3.0 is there much difference and have KETRON sorted all the problems out, any ideas when 3.0 will be in the public domain, do you think it's worth hanging on to my KB until 3.0 is available, I think people are hanging back buying Audya for this reason, what the hell do the Italians do for a month in Aug, isn't just as hot in the states in August, I’d take some work home if the company had problems. Why do you think Drumremix took the 8 displays off the Ketron SZ all a bit cloak and dagger to me. I wish Ferrari made arrangers. Incidentally I have loaned my Audya to a friend who has found all the problems I have, when I got it back I have started to press the screen on the Audya to open the menus got use to the Pa2x screen already only had it a week, must be the old brain!!

Regards


Regards

'Have they sorted out all the problems?'...

What problems? We don't get too many actual owners here willing to discuss what might not be working too well, at the moment.

Anyone thinking of getting one of these would probably be VERY interested in your unvarnished experience...

My Audya had a problem with the soundboard. It started emitting a loud squeal under all conditions.
I installed 3.0, which I got from AJ, in an attempt to see if that would fix it, but it obviously was a hardware problem.
Since the new OS didn't fix the problem, I didn't spend any more time with it until I got the replacement. I elected to wait for the new shipment of keyboards to arrive from Italy.
I didn't get a chance to see much of what 3.0 addressed. It did have new styles loaded and from what I could tell, allowed the use of dim and aug chords with the audio guitars. It was hard to hear over the squeal.
This was the second Audya I received that was damaged. Both were shipped via UPS and both had holes in the side of the carton.
I took pictures of both boxes. On the second one you could actually see the music rack showing through the hole.
I don't know if this caused the problem, but I wouldn't ship a ball bearing by UPS.
DonM

Unless the new OS came with hundreds of MB of new sound ROM to add to the HD (at least 2/3rd of what is already there, being maj, min and 7th), I don't think you are actually getting dim and aug from the audio guitars (in fact, it was reported that the guitar loops are ROM, not RAM loops - that's still just drums, AFAIK), but there's a possibility that they might have tweaked the MIDI guitars to be a better match, volume and timbre-wise, to the audio loops they go with. A definite positive, anyway...

I can't see Ketron adding this ability without trumpeting it wildly...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-06-2009).]

I remember when I briefly owned the Solton X1. It was used, but under warranty. I had to ship it back three times. It was ridiculous. On the second time, when I took the keyboard out of the box, a couple of loose screws came out with it. The third time, they said they were sending me a brand new refurbished keyboard. It played perfectly, but had a gargantuan scratch on it. They said, "Take it or leave it. That's the best you're going to get when you bought the keyboard used in the first place."

I'll stick with Yamaha, but I admire folks who dance around with different models.

Beakybird

Anybody wants to know about issues or problems with the Audya, please give me a call.

I'll answer any and all questions

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www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

This link is faulty too!

If you know what the faults are just post them here!



[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-06-2009).]

Now I feel bad for slamming a brand that Frank sells. Frank is selling me 2 PSR-S910's when they come out.

That incident with the X1 took place 9 years ago.

One good thing about the X1 where Yamaha still hasn't caught up were the drum sounds. I hope Ketron gets their customer service act together - and their OS too.

Beakybird

Here's the link. The other had the phone number attached. www.AudioworksCT.com
DonM

I'm a dealer in California for Ketron, Yamaha, Korg, Roland and Casio Arrangers.
One of my problems with all the X series of products was that when you unscrewed all the screws necessary to open the keyboard, if you aren't careful putting back the screws, the plastic would crack where the screws are going into. I always wished they would use metal inserts in the posts but they never changed this. So if a repair shop isn't careful the screws would be left in the wholes without actually going into anything more then a loose piece of plastic and many times I would see keyboards with several missing screws. The good news is that there are so many screws that you might not miss any of the ones which fell out!
In the past I have had more customers with Solton and Ketron products experiencing problems, more so then the other product brands, but not since the SD5 has come out. I think Ketron has learned a lot from past issues and as all good companies do, they learn and make corrections. There used to be a lot of loose connections and circuit boards that would come loose but I'm pretty sure these problems have been corrected over the years.
It is amazing to me that the shop I use for repairs has a sign on their wall that says " all repairs done on Ketron products have no warranty". I've never seen this at any shop before. They only have this posted for Ketron and Generalmusic products. This tells me they must have issues with customers after the repairs have been made or else this sign wouldn't be posted.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Beakybird,

You can say anything you want, don't worry. I always tell my customers the truth on any product I sell.

As for the Audya, I have asked a couple of times to be a beta tester for Audya OS releases.

I have even modified my Audya to make it hot swappable hard drive.



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www.AudioworksCT.com

Frank why have you done this

Regards

I suggest you answer them here. On the record, as it were.

I realized which many of us here have, that the transfer speeds using USB connection is fine for a couple of midi files and a few mp3s. But I have thousands of midi files, and a full DJ sets.

So with this modification, I can accomplish 2 things, not only am I able to direct connect to the hard drive and load the drive 10 times faster with anything I like, I can also make a back-up drive that at anytime can be swapped in case of any type of hard drive failure, which is sure to happen eventually to any drive, and especially to one that will be used so much.



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www.AudioworksCT.com

frankie,

can you post a pic of your "modification"

sounds like a great idea to me (being able to quickly swap drive $ transfer files

they really need to make that usb 2.0
1.1 doesn't cut it...

I think that will never happen as it would require a hardware update (Probably the motherboard as i suppose the USB chipset will be onthere)

Audya will be stuck with 1.1

Hi All,


I think USB 2 came out in 1999 what the hell are Ketron doing installing USB 1 on a KB launched in 2009 they are 10 years out of date, perhaps it will take another 10 years to get the Audya right. History has a bad habit of repeating it's self, the Audya is missing a floppy??

All you wanna know about USB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
DonM

i have a feeling...
AUDYA will eventually get USB 2.0
there are other reasons besides hardware which do not permit the 2.0 speed

Hello from Portugal.

1st:
DrumRemix makes a mistaque , he can not put in Internet Confidential Info.

We , the beta Testers , are now testing a 3.0 beta release.

Ketron Labs release the 2.0C version at the same time they close to Holidays.
Now they return and start working on the upgrade.
The only thing i can tell you is that its a fantastic upgrade , lots of things will be improoved and new features will be added.
The most exciting feature for us in Portugal will be the USER AUDIO DRUMS , that give us possibilities of create or in Studio with a good drummer or in VST drum software , the WAV drum parts to play in styles or with midifiles with the Drum Remix option.

Only end of this mounth or next mounth the new release will be avaiable.

As you can see , Ketron listen to the people and are working hard to give to all costumers what they want.
But you must understand that Ketron Labs is not Yamaha , ketron are 1000 x smaller than yamaha.

USB connections are 1.1 for now.
in my opinion is not good , but for now we must wait.

Best regards from portugal

F.C.
Ketron portugal www.fcmusica.com www.ketronaudya.wordpress.com

hello Fernando,

it was nice to have met you in Portugal,
thanks for taking the time to talk about AUDYA, and letting me play it.

all i can say is that it must me played to be appreciated,
demos are good, but you must play it
it really felt like i had a band behind me

i really enjoyed the lunch too with you and your wife, and friend,
great fish and kick ass wine, which i can't find here :-(
you guys know how to live it up (2 hr lunches, i'm so jealous)

the AUDYA will get so much better when we have our own drum loops streaming, with OS 3.0, that will make it really OVER THE TOP, no other arranger can do it, and AUDYA will,,, loving it.....

have to start saving :-)

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-08-2009).]

Once again I don't recomend this, it will void your warranty.




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www.AudioworksCT.com

[This message has been edited by frankieve (edited 09-08-2009).]

wow, that's hot,
now that's hot-swappable,
you're all set

that's the way they should have built it
easy access to Hard Drive

KETRON, maybe you can redisign that bottom plate of keyboard,

i mean it's so cheap to have a backup copy of HD, and in case of Crash, just swap HD, done !!!

way to go frankie

Thanks,

I'm sure things like this will soon make it to the Audya, I just hope they call it the Frankie Caddy or something

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www.AudioworksCT.com

they should just have it like on my G-70
you know where you insert your SR card...
plate with 4 screws, easy
drop plate remove HD

and they should make the new (upcoming) sound/ram chip/board easy to access too


i mean the most BASIC things are left out,
come on KETRON....

Nicely done Frank

That will probably void the warranty I think I'll wait a while before tending to such drastic measures. I'm confident that my hard drive won't malfunction and the USB 1 speed is not an issue for me personally.

Dear Fernando, no brother, they are not listening to anyone, what they are doing is
things that were supposed to be there at first place on a 5000$ machine so dont be
too gratefull to them. This is a MUST, they HAVE to do it, it is not listening to us but it
is what the HAD to do at first place. You will see what happens after they complete it,
you will never hear anything for the Audya again...please lets be and stay realistic.

I completely agree, DO NOT DO THIS TO YOUR AUDYA, I just tend to be a little anal about having back-ups, and I can't stand how slow USB 1 is. I believe it's almost as fast as a floppy drive

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Nedim,

Ketron does listen MUCH MORE than any other of the big 3, Roland, Korg, Yamaha...

i think Fernando knows this first hand (per his trip to KETRON Italy's factory)
http://ketronaudya.wordpress.com/

Lee, if i owed you 500$ and i gave it back to you that doesnt mean i did a favor to you.
That means i SIMPLY HAD to give it back to you, sam as Ketron with Audya in this case.
Listening is when you have a 100% complete machine like the PA2X and then adding new things.

Lee,

What do you think about the audya now after spending sometime with it?

How are the portuguese styles, marcha & malhaos on the audya vs. xd9 or sd5?

Do find that there is more pros vs. cons on the audya? I know people just love to bash Ketron, but is the keyboard living up to the so called hype?

thanks,
Mario

Pequenas deve ser bom, eficiente e bonito e KETRON não é.
Eu sei que você não pode dizer que é barato e desagradável - é caro e desagradável

Small should be good, efficient and beautiful and KETRON is not.

I know you can’t say Audya is cheap and nasty -it’s expensive and nasty.

Frank,

Thanks for the photos not for me - it looks like a hammer and chisel job to me, put the drive in a caddy and modify the cables, less damage to the Audya - there's was enough damage done to the Audya at KETRON

Hands don't look they have seen much hard work - but I bet they can knock out a nice tune or two!

Regards
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-08-2009).]

I thought about that, but I was wanted it to be sealed again if needed.

Also without actually doing any kind of testing, I wasn't sure if I modified or got a longer cable would I be changing any kind of time transfer data, which I'm sure I wouldn't, but just wanted to be sure.

And yes, I have missed my calling to be a hand model.

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Steady on Frank this is a family show!!!

The trouble with this statement is that Ketron are MORE expensive than Yamaha. If I am going to get 1000X smaller response, I'd like to get it with 1000X smaller price, too

I'd like to point out that, although it is a pain to use USB1 when you have to deal with audio files, when it comes to HD backup, there's nothing to stop you from doing it overnight. it's not exactly something you are going to do every day. I doubt many HD users here at SZ back up even every WEEK Month? Maybe...

So, you hook up your arranger to the laptop or PC before you go to bed, hit 'Go', and wake up with the job done. What's the big deal?

Until OS3 comes out, and you have user audio loops, and the sampler up and running properly, all you need to backup are MIDI files and style files. Small fry...

when user audio loops are available in OS 3.0

it will open up SO MANY possibilities

what other arranger will allow you to have your VERY OWN audio loops for your VERY OWN types of music? NONE...

that will be a HUGE step in the right direction

Just don't get TOO enthusiastic about this capability. For one thing, it is streaming of just ONE loop at a time, you are not going to be able to stream multiple loops (like you would need for guitar loops, or separate breakbeat loops from the drum track, etc.)...

And it's not going to chord follow.

But the thing for me is, there aren't that many drum loop libraries out there that are laid out like arranger styles. Sure, you can find maybe four loops that increase in intensity (sometimes) and you can find fill loops that connect them (sometimes), but you rarely ever get Intro or Ending loops that work well as needed.

I mean, they have had this capability on the SD-1 for quite a while. But how many Ketron users make all their own audio drum tracks (other than maybe ethnic musics poorly represented by ROM styles)..?

i am getting excited because drums is the heart and soul of any style...
the drums on AUDYA sound very live,
and soon we will be able to have ANY live drum loop, that is something to be excited about

but if you think Drums aren't that important then get yourself a Tyros3 :-)

We already have a machine like that, at least 9 years before Audya, started with PA80 which today is
still way ahead of Audya in its advancement. Now we finally have PA2X which has 256 MB RAM which
is 6 times more then Audya and how advanced it is it will be embarassing to compare Audya to it.



One does, way better, more advanced and most of all 6 times more space for the Loops, PA2X.

You can bash or anything at my but i think i was fair and objective enough.

Point of fact... ANY arranger with a sampler.

PA1, PA2, T2, T3, Wersi OAS, Mediastation, probably forgotten a few more

The thing is, there's a big gap between capability and execution. Just as making a style is hard, finding JUST the right loops for a complete style is not easy. Then going through all the OS BS that doing this is going to be is also a major PITA.

But it's not a new capability by any means.

the fact is that the KETRON Drums are in a league of their own...

and if all those other arrangers can stream live drum loops as can the AUDYA, why do they sound like a tin can ?? (ie. Tyros3)

I think you must go to school again......NEDIM

You tell that the 256Mb Ram memory to loops in Pa2x are 6 x more than the 80Gb Hard Disk from Audya????
Ok , we must remove almost 14Gb , its the system folder , you have almost 65GB available to Put Audio Drum Loops ......In Audya....
Yes , audya will play USER AUDIO DRUMS LOOPS direct from HD in Real Time Streaming.....

I think first of all that you dont now nothing about Ketron History and principal markets.....
And you dont like this brand....
You love Korg , and you want that Ketron became a Korg clone....

I hope this never happens......

Because , Ok , for Arab markets or other electronic music markets , maybe Korg is good , but for Latin / Acustic Markets , forget Korg.....Its plastic sounds and "Songoku" styles....

For example , in my opinion , Tyros 3 are Miles and miles away from Pa2x.....
But for Latin Markets also is not good , because arranger section is to much "Plastic" sonority....

If you like ketron , good.....
If no , no problem , Japonese Brands must also sell Keyboards , they have big problems with this mundial crisis.....You must help thems....


About USB.
One Question i ask...
How many keyboards are using USB 2.0 ?

To Tony Hughes:
I think you have a problem with Ketron , but i dont now what is the problem , and i dont have free time to search.
I`m not Ketron owner , i respect this brand and i work with this brand from 22 Years ago , because this brand allways give me all that i need to do my business and win my money , and what i have from Ketron , no other brand never give me.

I have my opinions , and i write all off them in my Blog , you write some words in Portuguese , maybe you can read my blog and see that i allways say my opinions there.

Here in Portugal everything are normal with us and Ketron , i dont know what happens in other countrys , and is not my problem...


To DIKI:
I dont agree with you.....
And about YAMAHA , i ask you a simple question.....
I dont Like the sonority of Tyros keyboards....
Are to much plastic or electronic to my LATIN market.....
But i LOVE Yamaha MotifXs.....Fantastic Keyboard , Fantastic sounds , fantastic arpeggiator....
Yamaha have "Know How" , they have an Empire , Why they produce a Tyros 3 with that "Sondoku" sonority in arranger section?
Its so dificult to put the fantastic sound technologie of MotifXs inside an arranger Keyboard?
Tyros 3 for example have technologie that ketron use in X1 , 10 years ago.....Why???

Its easy tell......Ketron Audya Price is too High....
Ok , it is in my opinion.....They will sell 2 or 3 times more if in europe the price goes from 4000€ to 3000€....
But Audya uses Modern technologie....
Pa2x works on the same board of Pa1x.....almost 10 years ago technologie...
Tyros3 works on the same board from Tyros 1 ....Almost 10 years ago technologie.....

Ketron Boards are assembled in Italy , Japonese brands Boards are assembled in China.....
The cost of prodution are lots different....

If you dont have money to buy , i respect you...


Bye

Sorry for my bad english

F.C

[This message has been edited by fc_xander (edited 09-09-2009).]

with OS 3.0
with expandable HD (500GB +)
with expandable RAM, sound board (perhaps 1GB or 2GB)
with user audio drum loops
with more Super voices
with more audio guitar loops
with pattern/style editing

and much of this is on the way...

the AUDYA will be hard to beat...




[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-09-2009).]

I have to say, the Audya does make me think twice about how they put this together with certain things that just seem outdated or old.

But when I gig, I always grab the Audya out of the Tyros 3, and Pa2xpro. Not saying I don't like the others but I feel the Audya has a very good musically feel on their styles, and their mix seems to work just right.

I do appreciate the Pa2xpro and what it can do, but I always find mh way back to the Audya.

Hopefully with some newer styles and sounds, and new updates and upgrades, it will be closer and maybe even surpass it's price tag

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www.AudioworksCT.com

bravo

You are waaaaaayyyyyy of beat and waayyy wrong. Trust me, i know what ROM and ROM is
probably WAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better then you. We are not taling about HD size in here
but pure RAM which is needed to play the loops and on the AUDYA is only 46-47 MB.
Can you prove me wrong??? I would love so but you have no way in hell of doing that.
Another point, i really dont care what Audya brings tomorow, i see what it is today, Audya
is bringing something for the last 3 years but nothing is happening yet.
PA2X is already in history with everything on it...only 3000$...and i think you are in love
with Ketron or you own it...i dont really care about Korg or Ketron, all i care is which one is
better and which one suits my needs first. You are a salesman, you got stuck with Audya
not knowing what to do and you must act this way but i am not stuck with any of them.
I just go by WHATS BEST!

And also, i would love to find ONE SINGLE HAPPY
user with AUDYA but not Frank and FCMUSICA.
They are salesmen, they wont say anything bad about it. All of the users i know with Audya
none is happy and every single one of them has problems till today. My friends from MRSound
sold 2 of them and both users are suicidal.Tony is the third one, i know another 4-5 users which
are not on the forum, they are even worst cases. And FC, this has nothing to do with Arabic music.
Ketron can only DREAM about Middle Eastern music, i am just saying in general. How the hell in
the world you sell a 5000$ machine called Arranger with no Style Editor. You gotta be kidding me.
You selling me a tractor trailer with no trailer? Oh we'll give you one later but pay for it now.
It doesnt work like that...trust me, i know Ketrons market too, probably better then you cuz i dont
deal only with Portuguese people or only with Middle Eastern. For your info no, i am not Arabic,
maybe you got the wrong idea from some of my demos and now you think all i know is the Arabic
world and music. lets be and stay real about this and stop talking what will Audya bring but lets
see what we have on the table now.
Next year i am getting a 100 000$ project but right now i dont have money for rent...
what difference in my life does next years 100 grant make in my life?

NADA!

Or as they say in my country:
Dont die Donkey till green grass is out!

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 09-09-2009).]

Nedim,

I do tell my customers everything, I also make more money selling a Korg or Yamaha discounted, before selling an Audya full price.

I do agree with you, the Audya was either released too early or was not designed completely. The price tag is very steep also, but just like a Mercedes, Land Rover, Chevrolet, Honda, they all have their buyers, they all have their problems.

I have bought plenty of things that I regret, but atleast with the Audya, it seems that Ketron is constantly working on enhancing, updating, upgrading or what have you, just like Korg does, at no charge, Yamaha tends to charge for what extras come out, but it's still nice to know that whatever you bought is still being added on to.

And Nedim I thought you were Irish

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Yeah...with my pitch black hair...Frank, i understand you and you are right but how much
damage it will do to Ketron untill they fix it? Thats my point. I cant start a set of sounds
today and start selling it right away but tell customers you will recieve it next year.

Nedim you said:

"We are not talking about HD size in here
but pure RAM which is needed to play the loops and on the AUDYA is only 46-47 MB.
Can you prove me wrong??? I would love so but you have no way in hell of doing that."

with all due respect and not to take sides,
but Fernando @ FCMUSICA is right on this one,
the AUDYA DOES NOT use RAM for it's audio DRUM loops,
in fact, it uses about 11GB of HD space streaming in REALTIME,
that is a FACT, and facts are facts


i don't think PA2X or any KORG or ANY other arranger have anywhere near 11GB of drum samples/loops (with another 60GB+ free for USER)

but maybe i don't know what i am talking about...

hey Frank....that looks like the same thing the Mediastation already has underneath?....did you get the idea from that KB?....nice job BTW!

what Fernando @ FCMUSICA is saying is that:

PA2X has 256 MB RAM,
AUDYA has 11GB of DRUMS, and about 50GB free for more

I never said they can stream live loops. You have to load them into the sampler first. But yes, once you do that, they can sound IDENTICAL to an Audya. You could actually take the audio loops off an Audya and use them in your Tyros, if you wanted to.

BUT... as I said, simply having the capability isn't enough. Someone has to make the loops. And the majority of loop libraries available don't really lay things out the same way that arrangers are going to need them. Especially with regard to Intros and Endings. Those rarely exist in loop libraries.

You've also got to take into consideration that Ketron kept a very consistent kit sound for most of their styles, lending a cohesiveness to the whole thing that many have commented that it helps to have such evenness. You buy commercial loops, they are ALL going to be different, different volumes, different EQ balances, etc..

The thing is, I find it very telling that the majority of SD-1 users didn't use this feature extensively when it was a part of the SD-1 OS. If it were THAT easy to do, and loops were easy to find and match, you would have thought that a LOT more people would have done it... You would have thought that a plethora of third party loop makers would have produced sets optimized for the SD-1.. You would have thought that their would already exist a HUGE library of styles already developed that made extensive use of the audio loop feature...

But there isn't...

Just like 'open' arrangers, I think the 'potential' is a lot more enticing than the reality

Look, if you are ALREADY a bigtime drum loop user (Acid or Ableton Live, e.g.), have already spent a lot of time learning the intricacies of loop slicing and trimming, maybe have access to a decent recording studio and a rock solid, first call drummer (if you want to make your own), then yes, this is a big deal. But without those skills and experience, I have a feeling that, just like most SD-1 users, you are going to find it is a lot more work than the results justify...

Unfortunately, the Ketron R&D team failed to be able to add multiple streaming loops to the Audya. They announced it initially, and it would have been a game changer if they had succeeded, but in point of fact, they got no better streaming performance out of the Audya than they had with the SD-1. So this is NOT groundbreaking stuff. It has been out for years, and few people have succeeded in utilizing it. So I don't honestly see any difference here.

And, in the end, with drum libraries like BFD and EZDrummer getting to the point that it is virtually impossible to tell if they are loops of live drumming or just highly detailed MIDI playback of MIDI drumming, why even go down this route? Audio loops still have the fatal flaw of being basically uneditable, whereas MIDI files allow all the flexibility you could ever ask for. Want that groovy pattern on a brush kit instead of a rock kit? You CAN'T do that with audio loops. But it's a snap with MIDI.

I think the audio loop capability is going to be great for the electronica/dance players, but for those of us with more 'conventional' needs, it isn't quite the boon you might think...

Thanks,

It was just the easiest location since the drive was mounted there, adn I didn't want to extend the cable. So I;m sure anyone would have done the same thing if they wanted to.

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www.AudioworksCT.com

To NEDIM:

Are you shure that AUDYA only have 46 or 47 Mb Ram?

About USER AUDIO DRUMS LOOPs , each part , for example ARR A , the loop with 8 bars has almost 3Mb only ( WAV stereo 16Bit 44.1K ).
What is the problem to play 3Mb size loop files in Real time HD streaming?

Quote:

"I`m not Ketron owner , i respect this brand and i work with this brand from 22 Years ago , because this brand allways give me all that i need to do my business and win my money , and what i have from Ketron , no other brand never give me." It sound to me like a partial opinion if Ketron provide him with all that money.

"maybe Korg is good , but for Latin / Acustic Markets , forget Korg.....Its plastic sounds and "Songoku" styles...." if Ketron is so good for Latin markets, why you can't find a Ketron keyboard in Latin America.
Maybe Ketron make good keyboards, but their support lack in any field. It is even difficult to get a decent user manual in another language other that in Italian.

Don't see what is the issue with devices make in China. The key is the design and supervision. Apple build all their PC's and iPODs in China. I bet that they sell more electronics devices than any "Made in Italy" company.

What HDD is in the Audya? ATA, SATA or else? SAMSUNG, HITACHI, WD or else?


[This message has been edited by Geniek (edited 09-09-2009).]

ide

Can you show a photograph?
I thought about mounting the SSD to Audya (but this is SATA). What do you think?



[This message has been edited by Geniek (edited 09-09-2009).]

I am very sure as of now Audya has only 46-47 MB of RAM and please dont try to correct
me, none of us is stupid in here, it was confirmed by AJ, by me, by other users and trust me
i know about synths a little more then you think i know, i know what RAM is. Or is this another
desperation like Dom and the MS??? Please, you can be smarter then denying Audya has
more then 46MB of RAM. As for Audio Loops, i am not talking about Factory Loops, i am talking
about USER LOOPS which also for now can ONLY be stored in USER RAM.
Lee, FC and some others, please do some research before claiming anything. I spent enough
time with the Audya to know what it can do and what cant. And i still stand by what i said,
46MB of Audio User Loops is 6 times less then 256 MB of Audio User Loops.

Yes, Right, it streams the Factory which is called ROM even though is on an HD.
And no Wrong, Korg can do more then Audya for now, 256 MB, 6 times more then 46MB.

Wrong again! Who told you that? Are you claiming all of them are assembled in China???

In Audya USER LOOP to play as well as factory loops (streaming),in the file name must be given the pace USER LOOP ex. mydrum_93_1.wav and are read directly from the HDD and not loaded into RAM .

Dang, and i tought the war was in Afghanistan..

But all you talk about is the styles...

How about the Ketron solo voices? Can they keep up with Korg Yammaha and Roland? I don't see a lot of improvement in their solo voices since SD1.

Ah.... interesting.

So you are saying that ONLY ROM loops (only they are NOT ROM, they are stored on the HD) can stream, and User drum loops will have to be loaded into the sampler's paltry 48MB RAM (thereby squeezing out whatever else you already have in there - like Supervoices)?

I don't think too many on this thread knew that...

Is this how the SD-1 worked, or did they eventually get that to stream User drum loops?

maybe i don't know what i'm talking about...

AJ, can you clear this up?

it seems everyone knows what they are talking about, but everyone claims different things

from what i know and heard from KETRON, drums stream in realtime from HD (all 11GB or 60GB)

if so, then AUDYA has over 200x more audio drum loop capability than Korg, not 6x less

AJ/Ketron ??? anyone who REALLY knows?

Do not know what to say. Have you see the live Audya? If the play styles of AudioDrum, HDD LED shows the HDD to work all the time
If AudioDrum in RAM, HDD is not working, but working


[This message has been edited by Geniek (edited 09-09-2009).]

Not even in Dreams but they dont wanna touch that topic, it burns as hell.



None of that, forget what i even said, the sad part is as of now Audya cannot do ANY user loops at all.



How can we clear out something that doesnt even exist as of now?

Yes, i have seen it, many times...i dont think you have seen it...Yes, it streams from HD,
you are correct...Factory Loops, that come with it, Right???

I know...

i may be wrong , but USER audio loops may be able to be streamed from HD with the new OS 3.0

we will see,

Fernando do you know if they will stream from HD?

I have one of the first Audya serial number 10,371, and I test OS 3.0 and I know that USERLOOP (no Factory) are read directly from the HDD (streaming), no RAM


[This message has been edited by Geniek (edited 09-09-2009).]

Yes 3.0
In OS 2.0 can not USERAUDIODRUM

Yeah, that's the thing that is confusing all this. SOME people are beta testing OS3, and may have access to capabilities and information the rest of us haven't seen yet.

So.... any OS3 beta testers out there... will the Audya STREAM User loops from the HD, or do they have to be loaded into RAM?

(No 'guesses', please. Let's just get the FACTS)

UPDATE... seems answered. Cool. However, my above comments still stand. Whether they stream or load up. making them, matching them, creating a usable style with them is still going to be just as hard...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-09-2009).]

I've also seen that Audya load the drum and guitar loops from the hard drive, and it seems to constantly stream them from the drive. I doubt it loads into RAM, because that would take a very long time to go from style to style, which the Audya does instantly.

Not sure what that actually means.

Well I know that I accidently deleted the factory drum loops from the hard drive. Because of this I did not have any audio drums.

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Hahahahahahaha...this is fun!

When something is streamed from a hard drive it still must go into the system RAM to be able to be used.

Streaming is just a technology that allows audio/visual to be played/started even though its not fully loaded into RAM.

Hard drives are ONLY for storage, and in the case of PC's for a "pretend" RAM area. Even if the Audya is using a part of the hard drive for a pseudo ram (swap sector) technically it is still RAM, and the sampels are being streamed to there if there is no dedicated RAM space left.

Also interesting to note, not only does the Audya have USB 1, it also STILL uses the much older(read slower) IDE interface technology for the hard drive??!!

I would have thought it would be at least at SATA level. Much quicker transfer rates than IDE, and well suited to streaming.

so Nedim,

who's right? you or FCMUSICA?

Ganiek says USER audio loops DO stream from HD, NOT from RAM or ROM

he has AUDYA, he has OS 3.0 beta

so does this mean the PA2X is 6x more than AUDYA?

or is AUDYA 200x MORE than PA2x?

fun it is indeed :-)

I always sad, Ketron machines are built like tenks, by German engineers in WW2...hence
everything inside including the OS is since
Hitler Beta tested.

Lee, i dont get too excited on Blind Dates, i am more of a Reality person.

but those with OS 3.0 and AUDYA should know more than those without, wouldn't you say?

but this OS 3.0 may pose a SERIOUS problem...
as i may not have the time to choose from the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of audio USER drum loops in my HD :-)

Frankieve, we were informed quite a while ago that, while the drum loops streamed, the guitar loops have to be loaded into RAM (but perhaps not the same RAM as is used for the sampler) because the HD couldn't stream that many simultaneous streams.

You see, while the drum track only needs the ONE stream at a time, for all the guitar chord choices you have the ability to make on the fly, the latency of coming off the HD would preclude that. I believe AJ told us quite a while back that the guitar loops are ROM (no matter where they are stored) and the drum loops are RAM.

I mean, if the guitar loops were streaming, there would be no problem having as many chord types as the chord recognition engine could know. But three simultaneous chord types was the maximum that Ketron could achieve. And that had to be from RAM. When you think about it, having all those chord choices INSTANTANEOUSLY available requires hardware speeds. In fact, from some of the reports we have got about glitchy timing occasionally between style divisions, especially Intros, it seems the poor thing is having a hard enough time just streaming ONE stereo file in realtime when asked to change streams... Imagine how much harder that would be having multiple Parts, all but the drums with multiple chord choices.

Computer systems SEEM to have a much easier time of this, streaming multiple files simultaneously, but the thing is, they aren't REALLY realtime. The computer will pre buffer data (because it knows what is coming) to give the illusion of realtime performance. It only needs a few milliseconds to do it, but in a realtime environment, those few milliseconds are just enough to give you glitches and stinky timing.

Personally, as expensive and as unproven as this technology is, I think I am prepared to wait a few more years until the hardware catches up to needs, and the whole thing gets a bit more mature. It just seems a little kludgey right now.

I completely forgot about that, I stand corrected.



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www.AudioworksCT.com

i hear that the next AUDYA will come with SSD...

IF Frankieve will post some picture of the Audya mainboard where are located the SAM9708+SAM9707 then I can post some dream documentation.
Only in this way you there can full understand what this keyboard is able to make or not.

I have already design 6 different boards with the Dream DSP and I know really well the all possible features.
Let see if Frakieve will display some..

For the first part I already said that in my post....It buffers it INTO RAM....PCs(and this includes all keyboards which are in essence small PCs) run NOTHING directly from the hard drive, it must ALL go into RAM which is where the operating systems and programs are ALL run from. In the case of some keyboards the SSD as well.

As for the second part it is NOT unproven and streaming works extremely well IF you have the correctly specified gear to start with. Gear which I must say the Audya does not appear to have.

They are trying to run "noughties" technology from "nineties" hardware....It AIN'T gonna happen!!!

Come on, I got to open it again !!!

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www.AudioworksCT.com

I can stream directly from a HD intoo Processor cache, bypassing the RAM in most modern systems.

Ok, then leave closed like a mistery...and contine here talk of all wrong numbers...

I don't have nothing to hide and shame on the MS.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doBCM73CTNw


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 09-09-2009).]

so i GUESS we all agree User Audio Drums are NOT in ROM, but rather in HD and stream in realtime from HD as they are loaded/played through RAM?
and we therefore can have over 50GB (not 256MB like PA2X) of drum loops ?

yes Nedim?

I can just laugh at this...how missinformed are people...

At least we agree on something, Problems that wont be solved in the next 12 months,
all over again, same as with every new OS...
Whats the use?

i would love to hear what AJ has to add/say/clarify

come on and join in on the fun AJ

Give me a couple of minutes and I'll take it apart again!!!

Maybe a nice bottle of wine, or some nice Pecorino cheese, from Italy would be nice. my Zia Regetta in Introdacqua , Abruzzi has some.

enough speculation...
tell it like it is...

frankie,

can you recommend a cheap but great italian red wine

My father and father-in-law make our own.

That's usually what I drink. Don't know much about other wines, sorry

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

[This message has been edited by frankieve (edited 09-09-2009).]

come here on my partner hotel, where also give the MS Clavinuovo, we can play some and dinner some special that you never saw and taste on your life.. http://www.andreus.it/en/

what kind of deal can I get, I'm ready for a vacation

frankie,

how many days do you refrain from washing your feet before stomping & crushing grapes?

my Portuguese father in-law does the feet stomping, my Italian father uses the screw press.

I just drink it

[This message has been edited by frankieve (edited 09-09-2009).]

Frank,
Wait until January and come to the Shreveport JAM! Much closer and less expensive!
DonM

wow,

seems like SO MUCH room in there for LOTS more RAM... :-)

they could easily create an AUDYA module version

save them pictures LION because i have a feeling they will not remain posted much longer...

well..for the boards that I can see there..
On the Main PCB they still use always the NEC embedded micro controller, so forget about have the 1-2Gb DIMM ram promised and of course the USB 2.0. For this features need one X86 CPU.

The Audio PCB board is nice developed and include the SAM9708, 128 Voice with max 256Mb ROM/FLASH and can streaming up to MAX 2 stereo voice. here the datasheet: http://atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1772.pdf
Solder this all 11 Flash for me is crazy, when give avaialble Flash chip of 64 and 128Mb too. For me was better develope a dimm slot, where is possible uèpdate mode easy, like the flash on MS: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/9b74722e9a28b8e18eda606b1ae24e6e_large.jpg


Then they have included the two SAM3308B: http://atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc6090.pdf
are the new dream chipset for decoding 1 Mp3 file, for that they need 2 chipset for fade 2 audio players.
Sam3308B, can stream 1 Mp3, max 32 voice and max 64Mb RAM/Flash
I THINK one SAM3308B is used for the keyboard, for that also you can load max 64Mb (-the OS firmware code and tools) mean that remain the 47-48Mb available.
The second SAM3308B is used for the MIC effects, vocalist and so on..

In fact, if you read the Audya specifications: http://www.ketron.it/prodotti/dettagli.asp?sezione=1&idProdotto=30
the ROM size seem match and also the 197 voice ( here we have to discuss, because when the al effects are ON, you lost about 60% of the voice)

So..for what in this moment I have understand the audya work in this way:
arranger: the style will be played on SAM9708 because is the big one that can store the all 256Mb ROM data sounds and also streaming from HD up to 2 stereo WAV files.
In this way they can store the all audio DRUMS loops from HD and the all parts from the ROM side. Note that each Wav file can not be more as 4Mb size ( Dream specification)

Midiplayers: they wil be played on SAM9708 too, in fact you can fade-mix two midifiles too and they need of course the ROM sounds.

Keyboard: here I'm not totally sure..maybe they routing the midi OUT of the keyboard to the SAM9708 too, for play the all basic ROM sounds. When wil be used the keyboard sampler, they will switch the midi OUT to one SAM3308B, for that you have available only this 48Mb sampler.

In fact if you read the atmel specification, you can NOT share the same memory/ROM to others chipset, every chipset must have the owner static working RAM and Flash/Rom.

For me seem only one Midjay more expanded, always with the same hardware, nothing new.

The BIG problem of this all manufactures is the ROM Sampler system.
Untill they will not jump to the X-86 system and use a true sampler software, they remain always limited on this range.
IF they will jump on X-86 remain the problem: wich HD streaming sampler to use??
All the software sampler under windows, forget it, because then mean to install the windows OS, license and the all issue that we know...
Remain the Linux...Linuxsampler without interface, all TCP remote controlled, BUT they wil NOT buy me the license too.
the end....IF they choose one PC ampler, they have to porting all again the 20 years of sounds ROM story to the HD and then you can copy all...
For sure they will be never interested to jump to X-86...

look here: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=A330GC&s=
with one X-86 mainboard like this ( cost around 80 euro) they can resolve this all issue, COST 200 time MUCH less than develope a propietary CPU mainboard.

This is used now on our new keyboards, stage pianos and Vasio synth.

Anyway is better to see what ketron can make with the new software, BUT for now, with this hardware do NOT dream to have more hardware features...( I mean about RAM,HD Sata, USB and so on..)

Hi Again.

Audio Drums and User Audio Drums ( in 3.0 Release) are allways in HD , and allways plays in Real time streaming from HD.

Its diferent , for example, from the Audio Live Guitars , that are located at the Ram Flash Bank and plays from there.

[This message has been edited by fc_xander (edited 09-10-2009).]

so it seems that we are learning more and more each and every day about AUDYA

i just hope that we can expand the AUDYA's RAM to over 1GB

oh...i guess i was right...those pics didn't last long on this forum now did they :-)

since Ketron does not give us the details...
we do what we have to, to get answers

Careful with loose statements like that Nedim. My friend here in South Africa has had his now for three weeks and he is elated by it! So am I. The Tyros 3 did not impress him or me, but his Audya did and still does. It is in a class and sound of it's own and the sounds are warm and real. It is definitelely well worth the price tag.

Henni

i'm sure there are MANY more satisfied AUDYA owners out there...

like ALL arrangers it has its pros and cons

but one thing is for sure, it is THE MOST "live sounding" arranger out there

and that is what sets it apart

when i play i don't want it to sound "tiny" or like a SMF, i want it to at least sound "live" and that live sound is the heart and soul... and AUDYA delivers it BIG TIME !!!

Nedim

you used to praise, love and adore the AUDYA

and now

you degrade, hate and despise it

you were so PRO KETRON
and now you're very PRO KORG

you did a total 360 on it...
seems like it's not the AUDYA you hate
but rather some other issues...

putting all the issues aside...
i bet deep down you really enjoy playing it don't you?

It must be the mains voltage in South Africa makes the Audya work better

Frank,

How come the photos have gone - don't tell me divine intervention from Ketron, BTW AJ has not had any input on this one, he is alive and kicking - but I wonder why he hasn't chipped in, does he know something we don't.

Tony

PS how are those hands doing, a bit of bricklaying this weekend will smarten them up! Did I miss the hands on the photos you deleted, dam dam dam! Please put the photo back on if your hands are in shot and sod Ketron.


Regards

Clear message here, go buy LIONSTRACS if you want all singing,dacing, bells and whistles, or "shut up a your face".

Wonder if LIONSTRACS does Autopsies, what's the dirrence in cost between Audya and LIONSTRACS.

Orriginally Nedim was dissapointed by the PA2X too, he left it for Audya, but when Audya wasn't what he hoped for he went back to PA2X that had become a rock stable performer with OS updates over time.

His reactions show just how dissapointed he was by Audya, i think Nedim is a very emotional man not afraid to share his emotions with others, which is very good for a musician as music is all about emotions but it would be not so good for a diplomat.

All the answers are in the last 2 posts Of Lionstracs and fc. They clearly tell us that Audya was developed with old hardware (which we allready knew) and that there will never be more then 240 Mb conventional ram (256Mb - OS space) BAsically teh Audya is nothing more then an updgraded SD1 with the audio styles as the main new added feauture.

Fc allexander states that there are ways to work around it, but lionstracs points to the real problem, they should have used an Intel based core (motherboard and CPU) in this system this would have kept the costs at an acceptable level comparable to other top level arrangers and would have allowed keytrom to even make more money on every unit they sell. Next to that they would be more flexible to upgrade that system with new feautures.

All in all Audya will have it place and share on the market for people that just want to play music and sound good, but i think that people that want to be creative with music will not chooae it in the end. Its to much a closed system its a true WYSIWYG and nothing more.

Tony,

Do you own an Audya?

Henni

Henni,

Yes I do and a Pa2x. The Audya is in the shed in the back yard and the Korg I play.

If I keep the Audya it may become a collectors items and go up in value me thinks?????


Regards

Tony

On this post and on the Audya all i can say to all of you is GOOD LUCK!!! You will need a lot of it.
Domenico said everything had to be said, even confirmed my 46-47 MB RAM. I am not as Technical
as Domenico is, maybe i cant express my self as he can but trust me, i know what i am talking, you
we'll need a lot of luck with Audya. I recieved 4 e-mails now at 2am in the morning from 4 Audya
users with problems. First i will take Pictures of the e-mails and post here, not just copy, then some
of them that are in other languages i will try to translate.

I HONESTLY CHALLENGE ANY SINGLE HAPPY AUDYA OWNER EXCEPT FC MUSICA AND FRANK
IN HERE! I WANT FACTS FOR THEIR HAPPINES THEN I WILL RUIN THE HAPPINES BACK WITH FACTS.

As i did and was objective in this topic but people are ignorants. I dont care about anyones
bussines or feelings, i say and tell it as it is. And yes, when i go to bars if i woman is FAT i tell
her straight YOU ARE FAT. I am just brutally honest. As for the Audya...yes, i still do like the synth but
i am dissapointed, i am not bashing at it, i am just stating facts. As for the PA2X goes i was never dissapoinred,
only in OS2 when it came out there was problems AND I WAS THE SOLE REASON IN THE WORLD THAT
THEY HAD IT FIXED IN 2 WEEKS AFTER I SPENT HOURS ON THE PHONE WITH JERRY KOWARSKY
AND PAOLO TRAMANONI IN ITALY, otherwise it was not happening. You guys dont know many things
about me, especially Korg owners, many things you play and enjoy today are cuz of ME, in many OSs...
here behind my computer browsing forums is not all i do...i do other things too. Everyone knows the wars
i waged on Korg Forums when that happened...few months later, OS 2.0 something for M3, another war,
this time James remembers, Me, Jerry, James, Darren, the engineers from Japan, by 100 e-mails a day
in conference...and fixed the problem. Any OS on any machine that comes out, I am the ONLY one that
first comes up with the bugs and problems, thats why many companies, Head Engineers and Staff sends
me tons of e-mails to stop telling the tru Collors cuz they know how much effect i have on hundreds and
thousand of people, maybe not on this forum but there is hundreds of them where my word is last.
If i say its not good they wont buy it. Thats why they e-mail me every day to stop bashing machines cuz
they know my people listen to only what i say...not cuz i am right, only cuz they think i am right.
Everything i said in this topic i stand by it, i dont take nothing back. Reread all of my posts on here, never
ever i mentioned OS 3.0. In each single post you find AS OF NOW, FOR NOW and AS IT IT...so go by it
stop twisting my words.

Again, good luck with Audya, time will tell, not me, AJ, Frank or anyone else, only time.

Ciao

Exactly. drum loops (user and factory) STREAM from the HDD
LiveGuitar loops from the ROM

Yes, you are right and wrong...it is called MIDJAY with Keys.

Does this sound like me hating Audya? On their own forum:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=46170

Just a note for FC-xander..


This is not a secret..the Micronas MAS3587 for encoding the Mp3 I have used it 15 years ago, on my first Megastation Black keyboard, the chipset have more than 20 years... and is limited on a lot features..



it mean that Frakieve have a OLD soundboard audya hardware version? How can be upgrade if the sam9708 is already max expaded at 256Mb?


Right, is easy to see that they have used the same CPU from the all products. This because they will not risk to porting the all firmware story to one new generation CPU.


WRONG.
Intel JS28F256, is a 256 megabit NOT megabyte. 256:8= 32Mb each, X 11 = 352MB.
8 Flash ROM used for the SAM9708 and the others for the two sam3308, this match. http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/123791/INTEL/JS28F256J3A-120.html

On MS we use one flash ROM Spansion S29GL512-100ns, that is 512 megabit, :8= 64MB



this is really interesting to know HOW to increase..sam3308 is already configured at the max RAM and the SAM9708 to 256 MB.
I like to know how they can make a hardware micracle to increase the RAM from one chipset that can NOT support more.



I think that you don't know how is working one Sampler Streaming...
Key Tunes is a standard feature on one sampler HD streming, like our Linuxsampler under GIGA format.
The difference is that on Linuxsampler we can HD Streaming 300-800 stereo voice, with Unlimites file WAV size @ 16 or 24Bit too.
Bosendorfer 290 is 1640MB file with 8 layer zone for each key.
On Dream chip you can use MAX 4MB wav for each sample @16bit.
Digital mixer on Sam9708 is only 22bit and not 36 bit as the Envy 24.
the max digital out that you can get from Sam9708 is 18bit,with a lot of effects NOISE on audio outs. ( ask Fran for the test if you dont believe me)
the audio quality os Dream can be never compete with the normally PCI 24bit sound cards.

Bye

domenico is right about flash ram
or know the differences between MegaByte and Megabit read this:


1 MB = 1 MegaByte
1 Mb = 1 Megabit
1 MegaByte = 8 Megabit

So does that mean I have an Old Audya already?

I’ll take you up on that challenge NEDIM. You are asking for facts:
1. It sounds way better than other arrangers including tin cans like Yamaha and Korg, both with regards to the styles and the solo voices.
2. Its build like a tank, I mean you can literally drop this thing from the fifth floor and it would probably still work – try to do that with a Tyros and you would spend the next 10 years gluing back the bits and pieces.
3. As for Ram and outdated hardware I could not care less, the current functionality of the board is sufficient for my needs.

Mind you I am not saying that the board cannot be improved because it could and should, and it actually seems like Ketron is constantly working on improving it, but for now I am generally happy with it.

As a person selling Audya's I want you to buy a yamaha or a korg because I make more money.

But as someone using the Audya to play, I really do like the styles and how they musically flow and the way the drums and bass can fill a room. Plus the other features like dedicated sliders with a master volume and seperated volumes sliders. the 2 mic inputs with effects, dual mp3s, dual wavs, with sliders.



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www.AudioworksCT.com

Frank,

Your in the electronics business, a week is old in this game, have a nice day Frank!

Frank the problem with Ketron is this, you had a video that you made running through the Audya and I noticed that you have the latest OS which had the new top page, I don't know when you got that version but it was way ahead of the general release with the new top page, are you another beta tester.

Regards

Hi Tom,

I've been in the electronics business for about 25 years, so yes I know what ever is out is old, it's the beautful world of electonics.

I have asked to be a beta tester a couple of times, I sometimes get the new release and sometimes I don't. So I guess Ketron has enough beta testers. But if they do send me stuff I try my best to give them some feedback

It's too bad your not liking your Audya, maybe you can personally email me if there are questions you have? If it's just the keyboard, sorry.

When I do my European trip to visit my relatives, I hope I don't have to pay for any hotels with all my friends in Europe.

ha ha ha


Frank

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www.AudioworksCT.com

Seems Dom really knows what he's talking about (And he should being a developer himself)... I had only suspicions about Ketron Hardware, now Dom has proven me right with this lecture..

Sad thing is that none of the big brands dare build an arranger with the latest Intel based hardware as a core. Its much cheeper in the end and much easier to upgrade.

Makes me wonder how much the total sum of all the hardware parts of audya is ? And then compare it to the costprice of systems like Lionstracs and OL Neko

Hi folks
Was not sure if I wanted to be in all this heat about cpu's and streaming or what ever, but as Morten Jonassen says, I could'nt care less.
Have had my Audya for about a month, and it works fine so far, no freezing even with all my button pushing. Right now the Audya, the Korg PA800 and PA80 are hooked up to my Mackie 2x SRM 450 + sub. And its amazing how those Audya styles sounds. I am a korg player, have been it for many many years, and I love the Korg sound. But, hey, no matter what you all say about the Audya it sounds amazing. I have had people here listening to all three KB's and Audya always ends up beeing the winner. the remarks are always: it sounds like a real band. I will still gig with my PA800, at least a few more months. It takes time to set up 200+ regs. I'm in no hurry. Yes, the Audya can take some rough handling. I went on three different flights, with a lightweight kbcase from www.keyboardcases.com, no problems. No need for a song "airline breaking keyboards"
kind regards

[This message has been edited by skude (edited 09-10-2009).]

It's Tony Frank not Tom Ok Bill!

Listen about the audya it's Ok it sounds great but those Italians there taking the mickey, £4000.00 for an unfinished job, this could only happen in this industry if people accept it and don't complain with there feet or money then it will take another year to get the Audya up to speed, it is the business you work in and I buy from, you even make little money on it when you sell it, so why do you do it.

Regards.

Frank you appear to be a decent chap you put your bit on Youtube for others, why did you pull those photos you never did say you can email me direct...

Tony not Tommmmmm

I'm the first here to tell that ketron made really a great job for make working the audio styles with this type of hardware.
Dream allow this 1-2 HD streaming tracks BUT is better than nothing, we try here to made some similar but the AMD is to much fast and the Dream chip by midi is to much slow, can never match the sync audio-midi.
For that I admire ketron for this result.

My point is just a little different..we are on 2009 and give a lot of other possibility that cost 100 time less.

All you there for sure have try some like Kontack, Gigastudio and so on..and you know how many big files size you can manage really easy.

What I dont understand is why this big company still now, at 2009 continue offer OLD sampler dated technology that can manage just some MB, slow to loading and products that cost 3000/5000+ USD...

Just buy one Atom laptop 10" for 300 USD and you can running one big sampler/VST too by Midi.

For now you can be happy with the Audya, BUT after 3-6 months that you have this keyboard will come one day that you will be Bored for the always same audio Loops.

IF I dont have the possibility to simple load my OWN audio loops, vocal shots, audio effects where I like, then why I need a closed sampler system?
Then I remain with the G-70...
Diki...agree?

Sorry, Tony.

They were on photobucket, but then they were gone, so I'm not sure why they came down.

I'm just trying to help out

Frank

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

I would like to see inside the Audya without taking the top off, I am in electronics myself but building managemnet system, if you have got the photos could you email them, thanks Frank. I wanted to work out a cost to build.

Regards

...Neko XXL...coming this winter after February...screw the rest all.
I meant coming to my house, otherwise its out already.

looks very cool
AND IT ONLY COSTS $7,000

but is light years ahead of anything

check out specs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv0qz6Q3zI

Nothing like this exist yet...except a 10 000$ or more computer DAW system.

Not sure where to start ...

The FACTORY and USER AUDIO drum loops reside in the HD and are streamed instantly when a style or midifile that requires them is called up. When a style is called up, the streaming begins instantly from the HD into the CPU board where it is processed in real time. This is independent of the on- board RAM and as such the samples already loaded in from the SAMPLER are NOT affected.

There is a 'buffer' that allows a temporal amount of loop-data to be stored/used associated with the other parts/variations of the style so when you change from variation A to B, the audio loops associated with B are already ready to be used.

For the USER DRUMS, the technic used requires you to name the audio/wave file to be associated with the style in a special way ... e.g '@SAMBA_50.wav' (the '@' tells the AUDIA to display the "A" logo before the style in the style list as it is now an audio style, the '_50' tells AUDYA the wave file was initially recorded with a BMP of 50bmp and can be streched from this point +/-45% while still maintaining the pitch/quality of the drums. This means you will be able to (OS3.0 and up) load different wave files into the USER DRUM Folder of AUDYA and when creating/editing any style, from STYLE VIEW mode, press F1 (DRUMS) to toggle between the following drums:-

AUDIO (Factory audio drums)
MIDI (Factory midi drums) and
AUDIO (User Audio drums).

Technically, you can store over 40GB of Drum samples in this folder location (remember different samples can be used for Arranger A, B, C ... Fill, End .. etc) but with upcoming updates, you will be able to store more should you decide to upgrade your hard Drive to 500GB!!

OS 3.0 also comes with new Bass, Chord (1 & 2 guitar and piano) banks that can be used in the STYLE MORPHING feature (replace, enhance existing/new styles ...etc). You now have a vast amount of combinations from USER and FACTORY data to use to build your own style!!

With these new AUDIO Arranger parts introduced in AUDYA, we agree - there are some limitations as to the flexibility of Sound editing (which we think most people into Sound/Style creation will rather want to achieve better results on a computer with software anyway), however, we believe we have presented users with a machine that has taken music arrangement up a notch. We did not go out to build a machine that is BETTER than other manufacturers' ... etc ... just something different for those who need suchan approach to the type of music they belive this would be suitable for (as it's not for everyone).

Our sounds, styles and systems will always be different from others out there ... otherwise, we would all be making the same keyboard(s) - just with different names (e.g Toyota Matrix & Pontiac Vibe). I guess for marketing purposes, this could be a good idea, but ...

Thanks,

AJ

But as i know and understand Ketron machines that cant be achieved even with software.
I am saying this only for one reason, knowing the Editing and FX capabilities inside the machine,
which i think no software can actually enhance them.

so Nedim,

now that we KNOW for sure that Audio Drums (both FACTORY AND USER) reside in HD, and STREAM from HD in realtime, and know that we will be able to upgrade to let's say a 500GB HD...

would you say the AUDYA is 1953x more than the PA2X when it comes to Audio loops?

or is the PA2X's paltry 256MB still 6x more than AUDYA's "500GB" ??

Nedim, just in case you forgot what you said:

"We are not taling about HD size in here
but pure RAM which is needed to play the loops and on the AUDYA is only 46-47 MB.
Can you prove me wrong??? I would love so but you have no way in hell of doing that."


thanks AJ for clearing things up...

You are right, NO, now its not but as you know ME i always have to say something.
I dont need a whole container of Soup with no Spoon to eat it, no thanks. I'd rather
take one Bowl and eat it like every human being does, instead sticking my head in
the container and drink the Soup. And no, noone proved me wrong. If you read each
of my posts as i said earlier, everywhere you find AS OF NOW, FOR NOW, AS IT IS.
I dont care what Mercedes is planing to come up in the next year, i see what it is now.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 09-10-2009).]

the fact is that the AUDYA will "soon" have the capability of nearly 500GB of audio drum loops...
and the KORG is stuck at 256MB

see the difference?

thanks KETRON for this "expandibility" and for listening to our needs, and for the upcoming OS 3.0, and for the upcomng "RAM" sound chip expandability as well

it just keeps getting better and better...

Nedim ,

AS OF NOW, the AUDYA streams from HD, not from RAM as you said, "but pure RAM which is needed to play the loops and on the AUDYA is only 46-47 MB."

so YES you were proven wrong

You are way brainwashed, noone listens to us, that was supposed to be there at the begining.
Listening to US is when we ask for something extra, try, we'll see how far you get.
By the way, next week, you up for a slice of Pizza again? I'll be around there.

may this be a lesson to us all,
we are all wrong from time to time
it's ok
it's ok too to admit we are wrong

we should all get to know a product better before we "bash" it,
before we misenterpret the facts...

i wasn't a believer in AUDYA,
demos were good, but i wasn't like , " i wanna buy it"
but after my trip to Portugal (FCMUSICA)
and after playing it, " i think i want one" :-)

it's like a car, "you must first test drive it" you may be amazed....

at least Nedim and I agree on one thing, Pizza,

cool, just shoot me an email

Thats a serious investment but it will pay off..

But you could also go for openlabs DBeat and add it to your PA2X and get the best of both worlds....

Some facts,

My friend had his Audya delivered in South Africa for less than the cheapest price a Tyros 3 can be had over here. What is all this hype about the Audya being so expensive?

I say again, the sound quality of the Audya is AMAZING!!! I am a great Yamaha supporter, fan & contributer. I have no reason for bashing it as I've had my PSR-3000 now for five years and I still absolutely love it.

But, the Audya is absolutely in a class of it's own. I've never heard anything like it yet. Yes, it sounds "Folk" like, but that is how real guitars sound anyway. Yes, it sounds 'warm" and "real" like most keep on describing it.

If I could upgrade, I'll keep my Yammie because of the thousands of styles I have for it, but I'll get an Audya, that's for sure!

Keep well,
Henni
South Adfrica where the Audya sounds better because of "the different voltage in our mains supply"

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 09-10-2009).]

You make sense too, the thing is i dont really play live anymore, it will be a good studio
gadget...i mean...it is a whole studio, all you need is 2 speakers and a microphone.

You know, I really only see a tiny minority use their samplers to any great extent, I see only a tiny minority EVER try to put their own tempo sliced loops into the sampler, this all seems like a storm in a teacup...

Fact is, all that is happening here is a bunch of wonks or nerds arguing chip specs. There isn't really any likelihood that these capabilities are going to get exercised, so why bother getting all worked up about a capability virtually none of you are ever going to use? I have noticed VERY few T1/T2 users EVER complain about how slow they are to save Custom Voices that they have created. You know why...? Because virtually nobody DOES use the freakin' sampler! If they did, they'd be bitching about it all the time, and the save and load times would be something avidly discussed when a new model comes out. Know how many Yamaha users showed ANY concern about the T3's save time for the sampler...? ZERO!

That's about the same number as Ketron users who ever posted a demo showing off their own sampled loops in a style. And they have had this capability on the SD-1 for years...

And, I guarantee, once any of you actually TRY to use third party loops, and finally find out how difficult it is to get a whole set matched, trimmed and integrated with a style, you'll realize that none of this terribly urgent discussion about capabilities and 'potential' is of any matter at all!

I mean, c'mon! Hands up everybody that uses live loops in their show right now... Yep, didn't think so. One or two of you. if that. Thing is, you've had this feature for YEARS since the first arranger had the first sampler. And you didn't use it much. Just enough to find out what a PITA it is, if that.

So why has it turned into an obsession with the Audya...?

I pretty much am convinced no more of you are going to use this feature than already do. The rest of us could perhaps go back to worrying about things that are FAR more important, like maybe whether the timing glitches have been fixed, or whether the MIDI and audio guitar chords have been tweaked to sound more cohesive, or whether Ketron have developed many NEW audio styles for it since its' release... Because, when push comes to shove, it is going to be Ketron that uses the loop features a LOT more than anyone here is going to...

Spoilsport! Don't you just hate Diki and his reality checks? I mean, if we were all reasonable, rational, honest, and actually lived on this planet, there'd hardly be any conflicts on this board at all.........and what fun would that be?

chas

BTW, I'm running out this very minute to buy some of the last of last decades discontinued RAM so that I'll be prepared to upgrade my new next-generation Audya (when it's released in 2015).



chas

diki,

you make good points

but fact is that every arranger lacks certain styles/rhythms

and AUDYA will soon give you the ability to record/load and STREAM your own, all 400GB of them :-)

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-11-2009).]

ARE YOU SAYING THAT KETRON ARE BEHIND THE TIMES - A LITTLE OUT DATED

Nahhh, not at all.........but don't get rid of those floppies just yet (I've seen the new prototype).



chas

Maybe with the hardware, but I can't say the same with the sounds and styles.



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 09-11-2009).]

Double posts.....

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 09-11-2009).]

.



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 09-11-2009).]

.

Wow. SZ never ceases to amaze me.

Ketron creates a product that they feel persons would like. They create a product where they know persons are not concerned about adding their own creativity thus the Audya did not originally have much if any editing features.

Then, after the product is release, there is this cry for edit ability edit ability. Persons claimed that the lack of some editing features that calls for creativity makes the Audya an incomplete product.

So, Ketron (unlike some companies), listen to persons request and are going to add free of cost features that would allow persons to be creative.

Now, some persons seem to be implying why even bother; arranger players don’t use those creative features any way.

So we have taken a 360 degrees tern and we are back to the original thinking of Ketron and their thinking to release the Audya the way they did; with limited or no creative edit ability.
But instead of Ketron getting the credit for that thinking, somehow a member on this forum gets credited with putting us in check with reality.

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-11-2009).]

I have to agree with you, At this point maybe it was too soon for the audya to be released, but only ketron knows whether it was financially better to release the audya then vs. now. I'm sure they have their reasons. I can only wonder if Ketron lost some customers due to the early release. But I'm sure they have gained many more since the early release.

I have to say the more I hear it, the more I love its sound.

the one thing that should have been in AUDYA (or via software) from DAY ONE,
is style/pattern editing...
so that's not listening to customers, that's something that ALL arrangers MUST have, and most (if not all) do...

mc, have you played AUDYA?

Not yet,
I was going to in Portugal but I never got the chance to make it to FC Musica. I have to take a ride up to Frank's shop and sit down with it.

those styles from FC Musica sound great.

yes they do, and they will get better,

he is going to sell them with AUDYA,
meaning he'll have 1 price without his styles
another price with his styles
he will also seel the styles by themselves for those who already have AUDYA or buy elsewhere

mc,

those real audio guitars are awesome for our type music,
and the drums sound so good, like the real deal...

they are only making tham for the audya? no other ketron?

and there's lots more DRUMS to come !!!
that's for sure

DIKI, there ARE people taking advantage of what the AUDYA will soon offer (USER Drum Loops), may not be everyone...

if I buy AUDYA, i know i will certainly create 1/2 dozen rhythms with my OWN drum loops

mc, i think FC is working on more SD5 rhythms as well, but they will not be as good as AUDYA of course :-)

No, he is talking about 1970...

You gotta be kidding me, i have no words to comment!

As I've said many times in the past, that's all well and good, but the execution of the 'potential' is a LOT harder than the mere reading of it...

Just as, so far, no-one seems to have had much success making decent styles for the MS, despite capability FAR beyond what the Audya can do, I doubt many will succeed here, either. To be honest, I think, if I'm missing certain styles on my arranger, I think I'd rather take my chances finding a translation of a style from another keyboard than trying to put together a style from scratch AND have to track down and trim and splice together a bunch of audio loops to get a drum kit in audio, that in all probability won't match the ROM audio drum kit very well...

I know, I know... always the doubter... Thing is, when I start to hear a bunch of user demos that use made from scratch styles and audio loops for drummers, then maybe I'll start to believe Until then, forgive my skepticism, but I really don't think it is as easy as some of us would LIKE it to be...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-12-2009).]

I am sorry to say this but some of you coleagues in here probably have no clue how that
one single slice of Audio is actually made from scratch...i doesnt look like many of you know.
If you only knew then you'll see what you can do with the Audya...

it's just nice to know that the AUDYA will have 1000X more potential as far as Audio Drum loops than the PA2X :-)

what day is pizza Nedim?

I'll have a LOT more respect for all this 'potential' the day someone starts posting a bunch of styles they have created using third party drum loops...

Last I remember, Dreamer (Andrea) posted something he had created using some audio loops in a PA1X (I think that was it). And that was AGES ago...

The SD-1 has had this 'user loop' capability for quite a while. Where are all the user demos of happy owners busy creating great styles using audio drums?

Few and far between.

But I guess that won't stop you all one-upping each other over a spec that virtually none of you will ever use...

Actually it is a PA2X Pro and -yes- I have created a lot of loops, but I use them mainly as multipads to implement the existing styles and give them a live feel. This is also because I have to agree with what you said about the difficulty of finding appropriate loops to build a real style from scratch (including intro, endings and especially fills); probably the best way to do this is to sample the drum track of another arranger (I am thinking of my G-70, or maybe a Midjay plus).
I wish I could borrow an Audya from someone just to sample its loops...

Really been a long time since I've seen Andrea post here at SZ.
As he live in Italy, he might be in a good position to dicover
any Audya secrets or issues for us?

If you read this Andrea, hopefully you're still going strong and
everything is fine with you.

Cheers
GJ

WOW, while I wrote my post, all that sudden Andrea was there!

Nice to 'see' you Andrea, been a while, or maybe I missed some
of your posts?

GJ

Hi Gunnar,
you are right: I have been away for quite a time. Still not good as I would like to be, but I am looking to the future with hope.

Andrea, Great to see you back in action. Hope you will continue to do well.
You can use my Audya anytime you want to come to Louisiana! Maybe you could make the Jam in January. It's just a hop, skip and jump from Italy.
DonM

Don,
thank you for your words.

P.S.: don't tempt me about the Lousiana jam...

Nice to hear from you again, Andrea.

It's good to hear from someone that acknowledges how hard to do this all is... You are certainly not the only 'dreamer' on this thread!

I can't believe anyone would actually sample another arranger's grooves to use in the Audya, though! Wouldn't it still compare poorly to the audio ROM styles? Might as well just buy the other arranger in the first place, if its' grooves are THAT good! Which brings me round to an old topic. To be honest, although the Audya's audio drums are VERY good, they are not SO much better than my G70's live sounding drumkits that it is worth giving up all the MIDI flexibility they give. I am STILL in love with the Cover Tools and Makeup Tools, that allow you to create VERY different sounding styles out of any style.

I find these BY FAR the easiest way to create something fresh to play along with. MUCH easier than trying to match loops, that's for sure...

I just hope that any new TOTL Roland includes the sampler from the FantomG. Then I can have fun with a little audio, too! I'd love to hear some more stuff with your PA2X and the loop multipads, if you feel like posting, Andrea.

Hi Dreamer,
even an SD1+ would do.
The ideal would be to sample the Live Drum loops on their own without the interefence of the midi drum track. Wish I'd done it before I sold mine.

That's the problem with most of the drum loops I've tried. They're a complete drum rhythm, require too many of them to use in a style ( my PA800 only has 64mb's ram) wheras the SD1 Live Drums you have just some of the sounds & the rest of the rhythm is created by the midi drums. You can basically get away with the one Live Drum loop in a style , the variations are created by midi drum track.

Wish there was some way of "muting" certain drum instruments in wav loop, & then using the midi drum track to create the variations for the rest of the style parts.

I've only tried some of the BIAB drum loops & also bought a CD of drum rhythms ( for SD1+), but as Diki mentioned, no intro's, endings, not really suitable for arranger.

All I got out of it were a few brush swish drum pads that were pretty basic. I was able to use them in the background with midi drums playing over the top.

Nice to hear from you again Dreamer.

best wishes
Rikki

Nedim wrote:

As i did and was objective in this topic but people are ignorants. I dont care about anyones
bussines or feelings, i say and tell it as it is. And yes, when i go to bars if i woman is FAT i tell
her straight YOU ARE FAT. I am just brutally honest. As for the Audya...yes, i still do like the synth but
i am dissapointed, i am not bashing at it, i am just stating facts. As for the PA2X goes i was never dissapoinred,
only in OS2 when it came out there was problems AND I WAS THE SOLE REASON IN THE WORLD THAT
THEY HAD IT FIXED IN 2 WEEKS AFTER I SPENT HOURS ON THE PHONE WITH JERRY KOWARSKY
AND PAOLO TRAMANONI IN ITALY, otherwise it was not happening. You guys dont know many things
about me, especially Korg owners, many things you play and enjoy today are cuz of ME, in many OSs...
here behind my computer browsing forums is not all i do...i do other things too. Everyone knows the wars
i waged on Korg Forums when that happened...few months later, OS 2.0 something for M3, another war,
this time James remembers, Me, Jerry, James, Darren, the engineers from Japan, by 100 e-mails a day
in conference...and fixed the problem. Any OS on any machine that comes out, I am the ONLY one that
first comes up with the bugs and problems, thats why many companies, Head Engineers and Staff sends
me tons of e-mails to stop telling the tru Collors cuz they know how much effect i have on hundreds and
thousand of people, maybe not on this forum but there is hundreds of them where my word is last.
If i say its not good they wont buy it. Thats why they e-mail me every day to stop bashing machines cuz
they know my people listen to only what i say...not cuz i am right, only cuz they think i am right.
---------------------------------

this may be a wee bit off topic, but
Hey Nedim,
with all your influence, tact, and talent, have u ever considered solving the simple problem of world peace?

Raz

When getting Ketron to make the Audya exactly the way HE would like it (as opposed to most of its' users ) is SO much more important?

Thank you for your words, Diki.

Well, if I had an Audya I would probably not feel the need to sample another arranger, because the Audya live drums sound better than 90% of what I have heard, drums-wise, both in Roland and Korg (not to mention Yamaha). In the past I have owned stuff by Ketron (SD1, Midjay) and so I know first-hand how their grooves are different (more natural, and therefore more inspiring to play with).
I own also a G-70 and agree that its drums are full of punch; I have sampled them and also most drumkits fom my Fantom XR and even my Boss DR-880, but then you have to make drumkits with them, which means taking a lot of time to match volumes, panning, crossfades and so on. I find much easier to sample -say- four or eight bars of each variation plus three or four fills (they take one or two bars at most); it's true that this takes up more memory compared with sampling just the drum sounds and then using them to play the converted styles, but the time this process requires just puts me off. I am more a sampling guy, I guess...

I was thinking of buying a Midjay plus because I could pay just 1200 euros for it and then I could sample the live drums tracks, like Rikkisbears wrote, even if the Midjay has a lot of other loops on its hard disk that can be used, for example, to play in sync with an SD5; moreover, the vast majority of these loops are mono, so they would require only 50% of the memory a stereo loop would take, even if they sound less realistic compared with a drumkit properly panned.

In this thread someone (I think it was Nedim) wrote that the Audya is nothing more than a Midjay with a keyboard attached; I really wish that this was true, because 1200 euros is an acceptable price to pay, compared with the 3600 an Audya would require here, even if I could always resell it later, with a minimal loss. But I am afraid that, after having experimented the Audya, I would never have the courage to part with it and for this very reason I was thinking to borrow (or even rent) one.

Anyway, I haven't been playing much as of late due to personal problems, but your words encourage me to try to post something to show what can be done with a keyboard that has a sampler incorporated.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 09-14-2009).]