VSTi help

I give up upgrading and buying new keyboards. In my country a Psr s900 is almost Us$3000 and the only (used) Tyros 2 available is Us$ 7500. Funny isn’t it? Yamaha keeps raising their prices and Korg lowering them probably to compensate the devaluation of our currency. On the other hand I don’t need neither more keys nor hardware since I have too many keyboards connected through the PC. So I think a VSTi software would be my next step. I am a hobbyist playing at home and I would love to have orchestral sounds articulated like Yamaha SA voices playing live. Searching the web I found some VSTi’s like Synful Orchestra and Edirol Orchestra. Do you think their sounds are good enough comparable to a TOTL arranger? Can they be played and articulated live and which would be the simplest software to run those VSTi’s? Do you recommend other VSTi’s? Remember I am a home player and I like playing live not programming or editing. Thank you.

Hi Vagro
Articulation voices have been around in VSTi long before Tyros 2 came about, and the ones introduced over the last few years, make SA2 look and sound positively crude.
Quality of sound will easily leave any hardware arranger in the dust.
The main problem is control, as they were designed to be used in a studio, (VST = Virtual Studio Technology) and apart from Wersi and Lionstracs (Which can load them on-board) most hardware boards don’t allow easy arranger control.
Fortunately you can get Livestyler www.live-styler.de which gives you a full arranger for your computer, and it can also use VSTi.
However before you make a decision, pop over to www.kvraudio.com (One of the best resources for VSTi) and read up a bit, that way you will then be able to determine what you actually require? (There are also some excellent free VSTi on the site)
Hope this helps

Bill

Synful Orchestra sounds fantastic and add a nice reverb on top it's like pure silk. So really you can't go wrong there at all.

Edirol Orchestra on the other hand is not even in the same class. It's cheap and cheerful, but nothing worthy of mentioning to anyone as something to buy.


Have you seen “Quantum-Leap Goliath”. It's a huge library that covers everything including the GM table and much much more. This will give you all the instruments your used to on keyboards only sounding better, plus a massive collection of other sounds that will simply blow your mind.
http://www.soundsonline.com/Quantum-Leap-Goliath-pr-EW-176.html

If you could only every buy one library in your lifetime, Quantum Leap Goliath would be that one.

Take a look at Garritan Personal Orchestra too. I'm purchasing that next week. Orchestral music is one of my favs to play and compose. As IrishActs stated.., the Edirol Orchestra is ok.., but a bit dated now. I think the Garritan Personal Orchestra sounds better than the Edirol.

The Garritan Per Orch sells for around $200. Prices range from $180-$200
http://garritan.com/GPO.html
http://www.garritan.com/mp3/index.html

Squeak




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-30-2009).]

Thank you all for the quick answers so far. I see I have many sites to entertain myself. I'll take some time to check them out.

Victor

Bill
I have Colossus(now Goliath) and Kontakt 2 in my Receptor. I wonder if I could use Live Styler in my laptop, and connect to my libraries via Live Wire connection to Receptor. I have been curious about the program as a possible alternative to hardware.

Bernie

Squeak
How difficult is it to employ articulation and modulation with these programs ? I have never learned how to get decent vibrato e.g., through Kontakt.

I played with the GPO not too long ago (friend of a friend). I didn't get to spend hours on it.., but it was enough time for me to decide that I had to have it I was catching on pretty quick to the articulation control. From what I remember GPO handled the articulations rather well. I think it has parameters such as Expression/Volume controlled by the mod wheel, Note Velocity controlling attacks and articulations, and I think you can set a pedal to control legato.

The guy who let me try his was a whiz on the application. He had no problem controlling the articulations. Sounded freaking good too. For $199 it's a darn good sounding orchestral set.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-30-2009).]

Another big thumbs up for GPO. If you are on a budget, and want an orchestra, you can't miss.

If you are after 'pop' strings, you might try some other things, but you can make GPO do this with work (use the smaller string ensembles, layer the quartet on top of them, etc.).

I know that GBB had a latency problem. I know it differs with hard disk speed, amount of memory, and number of instances running, but wonder if any problems were noticed

I didn't notice any latencey issues with GPO..., and the guy was running it on PC too. RAM.., and CPU will make or cut the workflow. Some cheapo sound cards have issues too. The PC I was able to test it on was running 2 gigs RAM.., and I think the CPU was clocked at 2.0GHz but I'm not sure what his sound card was.

I did however hear about latencey problems associated with GBB though. Didn't Garritan release updates to deal with that?

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-30-2009).]

If you are talking about orchestral DAW production, latency isn't that big a deal. To do it right, you only work on one small part at a time, while everything else's latency is handled by the automatic latency compensation of the DAW, or a bit of track slipping.

Most of the latency issues revolve around the soundcard. Some, like RME are bombproof at low figures. Others, not so much...

YMMV

Hi Bernie,
didn't you have One Man Band software? did you ever get your Receptor up & running with it?? Live Styler as far as I'm aware, plays the same psr styles as OMB does.

I never got past the soundfonts for the style parts, but at least I was able to edit the drums to suit psr drum mapping instead of having to alter the styles.

As far as I'm aware, Frank is pretty much still using the same setup he was a couple of years back, Bandstand for Style parts, can't remember what he was using for melody, but it was pretty much top of the line.

If you're planning on using Live Styler as a realtime arranger? whatever you use for the style parts, is going to have to accept Bank & Program Changes in realtime.
A couple of years back, there weren't many options, hopefully things have changed.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Bernie
Providing the receptor accepts all the standard midi codes, and can transfer them to the appropriate VST, you should have no problems controlling them with Livestyler.
The Beauty of Livestyler is just like Wersi & Lionstracs you can load the VST on your computer and control it as if it was just like part of the arranger. (This also applies to external Midi control)
In many respects Livestyler is more flexible then the Wersi OAS GUI, and generations in front of Mediastation. (The main downside of the Mediastation is that you still need to be fairly knowledgeable about computers and music software, whereas Wersi OAS & Livestyler push it in to the background, allowing users pretty much the same ease of use as a normal hardware board)
BTW Frank’s setup is featured on the Livestyler site, and I am pretty sure he has both Colossus and Garritan in his arsenal.
Hope this helps

Bill

Thanks Squeak and Diki
Rikki
I have Onemanband, although I didn,t get the upgrade. It is too cumbersome for live play on my laptop, and perhaps, Livestyler is too, and/or I have't spent enough time with it. The Receptor has a great library, but has no sequencer, so I would have to connect to computer. For non arranger playing, it has many possibilities for my controller keyboards, like big band multis.

I saw on the Ketron forum that an SD2 program is being developed by one of the members. That could be interesting. As time goes by softsynth technology will allow me to have an alternative to hardware if I can grasp it, and live that long. If I could find some modulated/articulated samples( like the SD2), ready for performance, or could find out how to make it so from raw samples, I would be halfway there.

Thank you for all the information. These orchestra VSTi are fantastic if they sound like the demos I listened to. I guess the sound quality depends on the Pc sound card and that playing live properly depends on the processor and the RAM of the computer. My Pc is an Athlon 64 Dual core 5000+ ,4GB RAM (Windows XP) with a soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio so I think it's good enough for this purpose.
But something else attracted my attention: Someone from Liontracks offered me for a good price a used Mediastation X 76 which is in my country and I got so excited I couldn´t think about VSTi’s much more. This machine looks awesome and its features are impressive. Actually it is computer (that most of you already know)with the console of an arranger with 76 keys and many useful sliders and buttons and an 8.5 inches touch display all comparable to a Korg Oasys. I’ve read some comments about the better quality of sounds of the Oasys but it is not available here anymore (because I think the production stopped) and I wouldn’t pay a fortune for it. With the Mediastation I would be able to use any VSTi I want having the control of everything at the tip of my fingers, I could also play Yamaha Styles and get rid of my Psr 1500. I don’t know the quality of the keybed and if it has aftertouch but surely should be better than middle range keyboards like the ones I have (the PA500 keybed is awful). Well I wanted to share this and say thanks to this forum which allows me to learn and also opens the door to unexpected opportunities.


[This message has been edited by vagro (edited 05-31-2009).]

Talk to Fran Carango he has the Media Station 76 and LOVES IT!!

If it wasn't for the price, I would have a Mediastation if only for the control of vsti's of my choice.

I bet Fran doesn't gig it much, though...

You want something affordable that does the same VSTi hosting? Take a look at the V-Machine. 10% of the cost of a Mediastation. Check out this thread:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/019630.html

If I didn't already have a Receptor, I would spring for the $600 and get it. As it is a great little module, I don't see it doing anything the Receptor can't do.

Hi Bernie,
Jos has a new version OMB out also called One Man band Essentials. I think it's a $12 ?? upgrade. You have to email him first though, and he sends out a discount code so you don't pay full price if you're a prior owner. I think details are in his Yahoo group site.

Still doesn't overcome the need for a PSR compatible soundset though, unless you want to edit the psr styles to suit the sounds you have.

As for the SD2 project I'm aware of it.
Whatever you do DO NOT LOAD the latest 1.04 SD2 update. It's killed my sd2. I did the previous one, worked perfectly, this one has done something to my machine. No sounds , just constant blue light. It's going to have to be repaired (hopefully).

Unfortunately, if I understood Dan correctly (we've been emailing about software) I think he's killed his also with this update.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]

Hi Rikki
Thanks for the word of caution.

Hi Bernie,
wish I'd left mine alone. Thought I'd get it up todate.

I've done these type of updates on my Technics, Korg, Ketron SD1+, always worked perfectly.

Can't work out what went wrong with the sd2 update.

Hopefully it's not a write off. haahaa

best wishes
Rikki

You are kidding Diki aren't you? That is a nice toy and cute and all, but its NOT a MS as far as VST operations go... NOWHERE near it.

But you did give me a good laugh