T2 / Broken button...(Attn: Steve D...)

Noticed on last night's gig that that my "C Variation" button no longer clicks or even noticably depresses when I touch it.

It still works, but I'm wary for how long...

Not sure if Steve Demming can assist me or point me in a good direction, but there is a Yamaha approved service shop in Dayton, who will ultimately replace it. They are usually 3-4 weeks at a minimum on turn around...

My biggest issue is that I'm off something like 3-4 days the rest of the year-and they're all weekends...(Mostly Sundays)

How can I get this addressed/fixed without being without my T2 for an extended period of time?




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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-13-2008).]

Bill,

If I recall, all four buttons are on a single strip PC board and easily replaced. You may want to give Steve Demming a call at (714)522-9000 and check on the part and it's availability. If it is immediately available, you could order the part and have it ready for your local repair guy, thus eliminating much of the time your keyboard sits in the shop.

Good Luck,

Gary

I had the same problem and Steven Demming called me with the following info:

You'll need part:
V8889300 ($2.00) - to replace just the button

or

WF306900 ($45.50) - to replace the whole button board

You could then do it yourself (though I must say that I personally would not do it - too many screws and boards to remove), or give it to a service provider.

[This message has been edited by chony (edited 11-13-2008).]

Bill try using a pedal for the variations until you can get the part & install it yourself..

Thanks guys!

They've already told you everything I could tell you. Is there anything else I can do to make your life more wonderful? If so, call me, I can't be watching the site all day.

------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
www.yamaha.com/pacsupport
714.522.9000

Now...that's some great customer support by Yamaha...Steve...you are the man!
Great job!

Lee

WOW, quick Yamaha support at this very site!
That alone could be a good reason to buy a Yammie...
Wish all manufacturers would care to be more visible
at fora like SZ etc.

Sure a lot of "half price" T2 coming up for sale in
this area now. Wonder why, do they upgrade to T3, or
maybe to other brands?
Maybe time for me to use the oportunity to try cure
the "Yamaha-allergy" ?
Well, some would say that is mpossible to do.

Cheers
GJ

Donny had a good idea about using a pedal in the meantime.

If you have a free pedal, just press DIRECT ACCESS and then step on the pedal...at the opening screen, use buttons "C" and "D" to highlight MAIN C in the window.

Store in the registration memory.

You probably know this already, but just in case...

Ian

Yea, Steve Demming is the man. He read a post where I had an interest in purchasing a T3. A couple of days later he made a personal phone call to me. I never heard from a Korg or Roland rep when I was interested in purchasing those boards. IMHO that speaks volumes about Steve and Yamaha customer support.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-13-2008).]

In another thread Ian was bashing Touch Screens because in the rare event of a failure the repair cost could be as much as $400. Do you think that when a $2 button on a Yamaha product goes out and its going to cost at least another $75-$100 or more in labor to have it replaced that the end user is better off? If one had a few button failures over the years the repair cost would be outrageous.

In all the years I've had my Wersi and Triton my touch screens have never failed, glitched, or done anything to make me believe they are about to fail. The screens still looks as new as the day I bought the instruments and since touch screens are over engineered for the rigors of daily use, I have no worries they are going to fail anytime soon.

If Yamaha would use industrial quality buttons that meet Military specifications then failure wouldn't be an issue. My Fairlight DAW uses hermetically sealed Military spec buttons that are estimated to work for 5+ million button presses. Why doesn't Yamaha use this style of button in their products? I'll tell you why. Because good buttons cost money and when you are marketing a toy keyboard to the home user and you want your profit margin to be high, you skimp on the hardware.

In all fairness, even if a non-touch sensitive screen fails on any of these TOTL arrangers (or MOTL), you are boned, for sure!

They are ALL expensive to replace, and you cannot run your arranger without them...

So far, the only reports of any failures come from impact (shipping, etc.) and not a single one from day to day general usage... That's going to affect ANY screen, touch or otherwise.

I look forward to the day when there aren't ANY buttons on an arranger to fail... just one glorious HUGE touchscreen with faders, buttons and display completely user customizable.

That's wonderful, Ensnoreyou, but until they make touch screens with tactile feedback, they will remain off my list as an interface.

As I said earlier...you may as well be pressing on a piece of paper.

You will never convince me a touchscreen is better than buttons, so don't waste my time...please.

Ian

And I look forward to the day the keyboard are built with a docking-slot to pace a
huge laptop where the screen are.
The keyboard itself could i.e. have 76 keys, sliders and buttons enough for whatever
use, and standarized in a way that all manufacturers software coud be used.
Then all hardware could easily be swapped in ports at the keyboard, and software and
other needed stuff installed and updated at the laptop.

Oh well, dream on ...

Happy Playing
GJ

Wops, pace a laptop? Should be place

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 11-14-2008).]

Hey.., I wouldn't just praise Yamaha's support on this site. I give Yamaha an A+++ on their support. Back when I was having that issue with the NP-30.., I had contacted Yamaha several times (I think my issue was the first report to come in). I didn't hear from Yamaha on it and on another forum I had mentioned I kinda felt shafted as it seemed Yamaha was ignoring the problem.., well that next day Steve Deming gave me a call at home Problem was replicated.., parts shipped, unit fixed., and all was well..

Speaking from past experiences Steve Demming and Yamaha Support are at the top of my list in customer satisfaction.

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Larry
The NEW SynthZone Map

I, personally, have only had a single, failure with any of the Yamaha keyboards I've owned since the PSR-500. In my particular instance it was a small board that held the PSR-3000s midi out connector. I called my local, authorized Yamaha service guy, took the keyboard to him the next day, he told me to go across the street to the local diner and have lunch and when I finished he would have the keyboard ready for me. He was good on his word.

Steve Demming has always been extremely helpful, not just on this forum, but on others I frequent as well. From my perspective he is one of the best service reps I've encountered--ever. If TC Helicon had this type of person working for them they would sell a lot more vocal processors. In fact, if anyone had Steve working for them, they would be a lot better off.

As for the above comment about buttons meeting military specs--you must be kidding! Military specs brought us $800 toilet seats, $500 screw drivers and other, utterly ridiculously overpriced products. If that Fairlight DAW's switches met military specs you couldn't afford it. Hmmmmm! Which military would that be?

Cheers,

Gary

Aint that the truth Gary Could you imagine what these arrangers would cost if we used the governments military pricing for mark-up on cost! Yikes

Thanks guys and especially Steve for the information. How would I bets determine what part I need? Just the button or the entire button board?

Also, the whole pedal work around is something I didn't know...

Can someone, from scratch, explain the whole procedure, connections, etc?

Thanks-



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Bill in Dayton

You're missing the point. Button, pot, and switch manufacturers make various grades of products. Military grade is the highest specification which is a classification and has nothing to do with them being overpriced. Most high end pro audio companies (Manley, Massenburg, Forssell) use these type of switches and for one simple reason, they work great, last nearly forever, and their failure rate is practically non existent.

Yamaha does not use these type of switches because they prefer to keep their profit margins high and the way to do that is to utilize cheap components.

The Fairlight DAW does in fact use military spec switches, buttons, and components and it is by no means overpriced for the product you are getting. Fairlight uses these type of products because they are rock solid, reliable, and will give years of use without question.

2 BILLION isn't bad for a stealth bomber, either, but it's a problem if all you can afford is a Cesna!

C'mon, Ensnare, you seem to know about this stuff... how much WOULD it add to the production cost to change all the knobs and sliders out to mil-spec componentry, and then add the usual markup...?

Damn things are expensive enough already, IMO! Of course, YOU can afford a $250,000 Fairlight, so you seem to be all right Jack! But in the REAL WORLD (the one outside your gated community, probably!), $3500 is still a respectable amount of money...

BTW, Ian, I know you are set in your opinion, but in fairness, I had my doubts when I first got my G70, as well. However, feedback from the physical buttons didn't turn out to be anywhere NEAR as important as I thought it would be. The only occasional problem I have is with the octave button area being in an awkward place, and Lord knows, even physical buttons aren't always placed where we WANT them...!

But as far as triggering reliably when I touch the area, I have NO problems at all... Most of the day to day operation on a G70 is STILL on physical buttons. What would be YOUR major concern, were Yamaha to go the same way? About the ONLY thing I HAVE to hit on the screen while playing is the octave button, and that's a rare occurrence with a 76

Diki,

I sincerely hope Yamaha sticks with the buttons and normal screen.

We all have our preferences...touch screens are far from my favorite interface.

If they'd just put in some tactile response, I would have no problem with them.

Maybe Yamaha can do that...they are a clever bunch.

Ian

All I can say is that that is how I felt until I HAD to get used to it... now it is second nature.

It's not NEARLY the problem you think it will be...

That's the same as I thought until try it out when got the G-70.
In fact, it's not bad, and not more difficult than push any of the
buttons placed at each side of the screen on Technics or Ketron.
I only wish they would start use larger screens.

Happy Playing and Screentouching
GJ

I had a G70 here at my home for over a week...I played it a lot...my biggest complaints were the weight and the touch screen.

It's a nice 'board, no doubt, but I still want that tactile response you get from buttons.

As I said earlier, perhaps that can eventually implemented into a touch screen...as well as having some sort of physical delineation...that's missing too.

Thankfully I don't have to use them, and hopefully, I never will....at least in their present state.

Ian

But when you eventually do, you'll be joining us in saying, once you get used to it (a week or so doesn't count, Ian!) it becomes second nature...

I play outside in the hot Florida weather, and don't have a problem with sweat (which makes buttons get unreliable) or sliding fingers, whatever. Trust me, were it a problem, you KNOW I'd be bitching loud and clear!

Trust me, Diki, a whole week on a keyboard is plenty of time for a good evaluation...a few hours in a store wouldn't be...but I spent enough time on the G70 to give it a fair assessment.

If Yamaha goes with a touch screen, it may not affect me for a while, at least as far as my personal keyboard is concerned, as I buy mid line now.

Perhaps when the T4 or T5 are introduced and IF they have a touchscreen, Yamaha will manage to make one with tactile feedback.

Three years is a long time in electronics.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-14-2008).]

Tactile feedback? I can't think of anything anywhere that has that... you mean raised areas that will change shape depending on function? You are reading too much science fiction...

As to tactile response, the G70 already has it. I know, if I touch a button, it just works. I can feel in my fingers whether I have touched the screen or not. From that point onwards, it's 100% reliable. If I hit it in the right place (hit the wrong button, you still have problems when they are spaced close together, like Variation and fill buttons, etc.) it works. That's all you can ask of ANYTHING.

And yes, it took me longer than a week to get used to it... to the point now that Yamaha's screw me up royally, because I keep hitting the screen to try and make it do something... DOH!

Nope...just a feeling or sensation of a click when pressed....like a switch does.

Delineated...raised areas in the form of a subtle grid...so you could slide your finger in place.


Yep, I was stabbing at the Yamaha's screen for a bit afterwards...