Disappointment with Tyros3

[This message has been edited by Class Act (edited 10-22-2008).]

If you paid $3900.00 at 15% restocking, that hurts.....ouch $585.00.

What didn't you like about the T3? The t3 is 4 generations later then the Psr8000.

WOW..., PSR-8000 over the Tyros 3 (YIKES!) What was it about the 8000 that brought you to returning the T3. As stated..., that's a hefty restocking fee! My goodness.., if the 8000 makes you happy and the Tyros 3 did not.., I'd strongly suggest you look at the PSR-S900. The 900 doesn't load samples or anything, but as far as the sounds are concerned it's in a whole n'other league compared to the 8000.

Squeak

How soon the truth is coming out its really amazing the difference distance from great to hate wow this is real weird...this Tyros 3 thing is becoming a Crap shoot
I also wish more people would post honest opinions without sugar coating or worrying about hurting peoples feelings or bursting their bubble......people learn from honest reviews & sometimes save a buck or two.

BTW sorry to hear about your disappointment but I understand where your coming from. Your comfort zone has been disrupted did you play it at all pre purchase?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-22-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Class Act (edited 10-22-2008).]

Hey,

I agree with you that the T3 is a major disappointment, but to say that the PSR-8000 is better? Sorry, there's something wrong with your ears.

I owned the 8000, 9000, T1, T2, and now T3, and there's no question that each model has been upgrade to its predecessor, though the T3 is a pretty pathetic one.

If you think the 8000 sounds better, there's something majorly wrong with your settings or your hearing. If you told me you didn't like the T3 I'd tell you to return it. If you're telling me the 8000 sounds better, I'd say you should hold on to it for another few weeks until you learn how to use it...

Hi CA,

You must give it more than 6 days.

If it is not defective , it should sound amazing , right out of the box.

I have had mine for 3 weeks , and ever time I play it , I like more !!

I say , give it more time.

Good luck

Gary 

i would not take this post seriously. This guy joined the forum in August this year. Made one post to say hello and now this post. I owned the PSR8000 for 5 years and it was agreat keyboard but i was no where near even a Tyros 1 let alone T2 or T3.

Either this guy
1. has mud in his ears
2. Had a faulty T3 and was too dumb to tell it was faulty
3. He is a fool with his money (lost nearly $600.00 dollars to try out a keyboard that he should have been able to compare with his PSR8000 just from the online demo)
4. or he is a TROLL

i very strongly suspect the latter. I dont normally speak out so strongly about a poster but this post is clearly just nonsense from start to finish.


[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 10-22-2008).]

Ditto I read the post looked at the amount time he is a new member. Mmmmm I just wonder, you can't believe everything you read. Remember the old saying "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear." Well, doesn't fit exactly. But just makes you wonder



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-22-2008).]

with all due respect, i went thru similar
situation. i remember using the brass section on my roland d-20 thinking "man that sounds like a horn scetion to me." my singer said that it was to harsh sound. then i went to the korg i series arrangers.
i thought wow , this sounds great. then i went from the i series to the pa series and roland va series. i actually returned the pa sold the va because i couldn't get use to the change of sound (to my ears) and the operating system. i think my ears needed to adjust to the new sounds(in other words, give the new system a chance. its been over 3 years since i've bought a new keyboard. i do have comparison tapes of these keyboards ie. korg i 30, korg pa 80, korg pa 60,roland va76, yamaha psr 1000,1100,2100, tyros 1. i recently played those tapes and wow. i now hear the difference. each keyboard does have certain sounds that are better than the other,BUT not that much(with the exception of the old korg i series with the newer arrangers. if i were to buy a new setup, i personally would go with a tyros and a korg pa500 due to costs and my budget.
regards
dave

Probably a Korg Executive.......

C'mon guys, give Class Act a break. Just because he's a relative newbie doesn't mean he can't have a valid opinion. I would urge him to keep his posts up on the board; now I'm afraid he'll never post again and maybe even drop out. As for liking the sound of a much older version, have you ever thought that maybe it's not all SOUNDS but a mixture of comfort and convenience. I have had that sinking feeling after a bad purchase, but I've never paid a restocking fee. I would definitely check into that.

Hi Class Act,

You're obviously pretty upset by the responses, but the truth is that you'd be saving yourself a lot of money and frustration if you'd just hold onto the keyboard a try it out. I personally am not a great fan of Yamaha (although I do have the T3 out of convenience, I also use the Pa2x), but I'd hate to see you waste your money on a restocking fee when the reason for returning it is flawed...

You are right. I had the PA2x for a few months and took a $400 beating because I liked the T3 better. Sometimes you just know.
immediately somethings not right.
At Summer NAMM I played the Fantom in the Roland Room and after an hour or so I knew I would never want one. Nice screen mouse and all that but.....there is something missing.

That was the second time. The first time was at GC. A lot of it was the fact that I already have a computer and would never use the keyboard as a complete recording /sequencing solution. The Roland really shined in that area though if one was not computer savy,

I'm afraid this thread is the perfect example of why our membership is not exactly growing by leaps and bounds...

Bloody rude, I'm afraid, and NOT to one of the 'regulars' who are kind of used to it. Some of us need to get a grip on our tongues around here! This guy didn't deserve this...

Sure, disagree, but rudeness? Why is that even necessary?

It's about time some of you started writing as if you were face to face with the poster. Because, trust me, call me a 'troll' to my face, and you'll be picking yourself up off the floor!

I keep trying to point out... your arranger isn't your wife or your grandkids. If someone says something you disagree with, why start a fight? Surely we are not so dumb and ignorant you can't refute what they say without personal attack...

Disgusting. Really....

Its all because the so called mighty TYROS got spanked plain & simple.....& now retaliation must be dealt out severly by the Yamaha elitists.....Paaaallleeeeeesessse!!

hes gone

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-22-2008).]

I never had a chance to read Class Act's post before he removed them, so am left in the dark. The fact that he joined in August and made only this one other post (according to Spaulding) and now deletes everything he said, definitely sounds suspicious. If Class Act wants to be taken seriously, he/she needs to restate his Tyros3 disappointment and provide more detail, less not be taken as merely an anti Yamaha Tyros3 promoting shill.

Scott

I have played 2 gigs this week with my Tyros 3 using only the factory default settings. It is not the best solution - but it sure is not horrible. Tonight I found time to explore the EQ and CMP settings and you won't believe what you can get out of this keyboard! I am using M-Audio BX5a speakers - not a lot of power - but enough for my needs. I can't imagine anyone faulting this keyboard on sound quality.

Hammer

Yeah people always want to beat up on the top dog. I think people get upset that Yamaha sells a ton of Tyros' despite their disregard for those relative few who want it in a 76key model. Which Yamaha has no intention of doing although they already can do it easily using the Motif case model.

Its a Home keyboard in the Home division, All home division Arranger Keyboards are 61 keys.

I (and I suspect Yamaha) personally cannot imagine anyone passing on the Tyros ONLY because it does not have 76 keys. Thats a whole lot being left on the table to still spend $3000+ for an apparent "compromise" of choosing a second choice for 15 more keys......ya think? I think Yamaha knows how silly that is. Would I like 76 Keys? SURE! But Im not going to buy my second choice for thousands for 15 more keys.......

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-23-2008).]

15 more keys does make a big difference, when you split the whole keyboard into three different zone, for instance.
and for some piano songs you must have them right there.

too bad the original posts were erased, but i got the feeling the poster was not very diplomatic. i am afraid this also atract harsh answers. put aside the real facts...

Adi,
you can get an idea of the original post from the first reply of Chony: the part quoted doesn't look harsh or non-diplomatic.

This is the original post:

Originally posted by Class Act:
After 6 days, I have decided to return the Tyros3... It will cost me 15 percent return fee, but I will be happy to get pass this bad purchase of mine..
Thankfully, I did not sell my old faithful keyboard..

I thought the Tyros3 would have been an improved keyboard, but the PSR8000 sounds much better.It is easier to use ..too.

I would have liked for him explain his thoughts (good & bad) on the T3. I don't think he was looking for 76 keys, since the psr8000 only has 61 to begin with. But I would have to say even though some of us don't like Yamaha and/or T3. One would expect a hugh improvement between the T3 & the psr8000.

Also factors that we don't know:
Did he purchase it on a whim? Never demoed?
Did other financial responsibilities come up?
Did he not want to take the time to learn the OS on a new keyboard? (I’m sure their probably different).


I'm not sure what's going on with CA, I can see why people would find it a little strange down grading to psr8000.

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.

What's crazy is how the poor guy gets the label of "troll" or a Korg rep. For Pete's sake the guy returned the Tyros 3 to keep the CURRENT YAMAHA he already has. It's not a Yamaha bashing issue at all. He clearly likes Yamaha.

Is there anything wrong with him sticking to his 8000? This is a keyboard he has been using for some time and is very comfortable with. Look how long Fran held on to that G-1000

IMO.., I would have like a little more detail about what he liked and disliked..., but this poor guy got attacked from the gate. He then removes his post.., and the speculation continues. Anyone ever think he removed it because of how harsh some of you were?

Diki
Thank you for your message/post:
"It's about time some of you started writing as if you were face to face with the poster."

I totally agree with you. Especially since the Poster did not have a track record of bashing a Keyboard maker or model in the past.

Thanks for your message.
Ron [Rfinnshw]

Right on! Some of us are elitists whether we want to admit it or not. Unfortunately, bashing the opinions of those who differ from us can be a consequence. I'm sure there are many people out there plaaying PSR 8000, 9000, even 2000 and the lower series and are perfectly happy with the performance of that keyboard. Check eBay and Craigslist and you'll find lots of older keyboards still out there in great working condition.

Class Act, if you're still out there please consider joining in on this. Explain yourself and stand upp for what you believe. You'll be surprised that are as many supporters of your opinions (or at least your right to them) as there are detractors.

Class act ponited out that the PSR8k was much more easier to operate for him also then the T3.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-23-2008).]

I guess the devil you know...

I can understand the allegiance to the PSR-8000 as well...one of Yamaha's best arrangers,,,great in it's day, and still a fine instrument.

I certainly don't think the poster should have been labeled a "Troll"...that's not fair to judge someone so soon.

And maybe he wasn't a "he"...

Ian

The PSR800 was one of the best arrangers Yamaha ever made. The vocal harmonizer was BETTER than the one they have now, at least it sounded better to me.
It only had 2 variations per style, but it was way ahead of everything else on the market at the time. I kept going back to it after I had 740 and then again after the 9000. Many of the sounds are still on the current Yamahas.
You can move the style locations around on it, and it had that really neat Swing feature that allowed you to easily change all the styles and save both versions.
It was probably a matter of his being very comfortable with it, and the T3 being in need of extensive setup and editing. I can relate and understand. I can't see any reason to attack a person personally and question his intelligence or judgment in this case, or any other case actually.
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 10-23-2008).]

Hello again, sorry to exit in a huff..

My Father is a regular on Synth Zone, and said not to worry about comments...though they may sound personal, no harm is intended..

Yes I am a she..

Welcome back!

'bout time we had another lady here!
DonM

Not to worry Class Act,here at the pissing grounds,it is never long before another pee war is at hand screaming outwardly all its injustices of mine is better..which reminds me,nothing beats my Psr9000 to date including your 8000!

Class Act, since you are here again, I hope that you can answer a few -simple- questions:

1- What didn't you like exactly in the Tyros 3?

2- Why did you choose this moniker?

3- And -most important of all- who is your father?

Welcome back, CA. That in itself was a classy thing to do. Don't let us crusty old folks get to you. Shoot from the hip and aim straight. Say what you mean and defend it. You'll be surprised how supportive even your worst critics can be at times.

Okay, an explanation.
The Tyros is too much keyboard for me, I am a keyboard hobbyist, and my old keyboard is more then adequate for my needs..

I am here on my own merits and not my father's...Please Mr Spencer, do not disclose my idenity..Thank you

Thanks for giving those of us here with no 'couth' a second chance, Class Act.

Now, perhaps some of us have an opportunity to behave as well as you are named...

And to the general membership here...

Look, guys (because that's primarily who it is), do you want to spend the rest of your days endlessly repeating the same claptrap amongst yourselves, or would you like some fresh ideas, opinions and diversity around here? The way you treat newcomers will determine that...

This is not the Tyros clubhouse. If you want to exist in a world of unremitting back-slapping and self-congratulation, well, even if you don't want to leave SZ altogether, there's a Yamaha Arranger forum here, where you can go and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist

Otherwise, show the respect to others that you would like shown to you... And DON'T confuse lack of respect for your particular arranger as lack of respect for YOU. Personally, I don't think the choice of arranger you pick even DESERVES any respect...

It's what you PLAY on it that should get that....

Ah, but that would involve some of you actually POSTING your music, rather than your vitriolic opinions. The latter seems altogether easier, doesn't it

Class Act, glad to see you back after a little bashing. (that was really only a test, right). Well you more than passed. I know how you feel about a keyboard being to much for you. As a trained organist I went from a Lowrey to a Psr500, back to a Lowrey MX1 than to a Roland G70. One of my first posts (different name, lost password) was this keyboard might be to smart for me. However after shelling out $$$$$ I stuck with it and now 2 years later I kinda got it down with still aways to go. I am mostly a home player but do gig 2-3 times a month at a NH. I think that any new TOTL keyboard is a challenge for any of the people here at first but a little time changes that. You already shelled out the bucks, why not give a it chance. I know that I am really happy I did.
Anyways, welcome and enjoy whatever you play.

ScottC

Well, my dear, you seem very young but I must congratulate you for your wisdom...

From what I've heard posted, there are more than a few here with 'more keyboard than they need'

My advice would be to stick with what you are comfortable with, and spend your valuable time actually PLAYING and practicing. That will make you sound a whole lot better than a new T3...

I may very well have missed it (seriously) but is there a website or links of some of your work?



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Most of what I have on the web (other than studio work) is up at Roland-Arranger.com in the Renditions forum.

There's a total of seven pieces up (most are on page 2)

Have at it!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-23-2008).]

Hi
nice to see you back.
Sometimes some of the guys can sound like they're bullies, they'e not, usually they're more than willing to give a helping hand.
If you luv yor PSR8000, stick with it. It's not worth spending $1,000's on a new T3 if it doesn't suit your needs. Regrettably you lost money in the process. No doubt a number of us have lost money on incorrect choices. ( I've still got one of mine, great keyboard, doesn't suit my needs).

Also we've got a couple of things in common.
Female & hobbyist.
Welcome back.

best wishes
Rikki

Diki You really need to lighten up...You take yourself far far too seriously.

You are going to bust a vessel demanding we all become just like you.
some of us enjoy being mean, sucking at the keyboard, rah rah Yamaha. Let us have our joy as you have yours which seems to be constantly "correcting" everyone.

Its only music. Some great schooled players out out crap. Some crappy self taught players put put good music.

You really don't need to play Daddy...or forum cop.


Someone posts a Subject "Dissapointed with the Tyros 3" then runs deserves some heat and got it. You seem to have more of a problem with Yamaha than anyone...Just get one and be done with it,.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-23-2008).]

Class Act i posted the original comments on your thread that has caused all the fuss. I made the remarks that i did because of the lack of posts from you and the very little detail that you gave about yourself in august this year and your lack of replies to that thread. When discussions were occuring about the launch of the T3 on this board i never saw any posts from you. When members swere debating the potential benefits of upgradeing to the T3 i never saw any posts from you.

Then suddenly you appear not only having purchase a T3 but having returned it before (as it were) you had taken the wrapper off it made me very suspicious. Then your dismissive account of your 6 day trial period with a very expensive and complex machine with comments like the 'psr8000 sounded better' made me believe immediatly that this was a bogus posting. As much as sound is subjective i found it hard to believe (and still do) that someone with good ears cannot tell he huge improvement in sound the T1,T2 and now T3 has over the PSR8000. The online demos have been available for weeks before the product went on sale and despite the arguments that you have to hear the instrument live i find it incredible that anyone can not tell the obvious improvement in sound that the T1,T2 and T3 has over the PSR8000. The operating systems are not that different along the PSR/Tyros range relative to the existing functions on the PSR8000 (which i still have) and so for you to comment that the PSR8000 was easier to use having had personal experience of both the PSR8000 and Tyros range sounded incredible to me. Added to this the fact that you took nearly $600 loss just for a 6 day trial ?????? I am sorry if i insulted your intelligence.I hope its not a mistake you will make too often. Many people on other forums come just to create trouble and misrepresent just for the hell of it. I get upset by people with only bad intentions on their minds and i overeacted.

If i am honest (and i am) i still am suspicious of you. But if i am wrong i apologise. Stick around and tell us about yourself and your music and your PSR8000. You dont have to prove anything to me and we dont have to be friends. But it would be nice if we could start a fresh and get to know each other.

What an amazing novel! First everyone was annoyed, then I felt pity to see how rude we´ve been to this nice new member of the forum, now everybody´s fighting again. Wow! Top story of the day for me! (apart from the worlwide financial crisis of course )

Kingfrog, you disappoint me...

Maybe if it was YOUR daughter being called a troll, and generally abused by the 'Yamaha bullies' on this forum, you might have a different opinion, but apparently, no offensive or abusive posting disturbs you in the least (unless, of course, it's a contrary opinion to YOURS ).

Sadly, maybe predictably, I think it is YOU that needs to take this MORE seriously. But then again, one can hardly expect anyone from the great USA to actually come out against rudeness and abusive language... Where would your culture be without them?

The difficulty most of you have with expressing yourself without outright rudeness is a result of what? Lack of education, lack of class, or just plain lack of caring?

I am tempted to say all of the above. Prove me wrong.

Get your daughters and grandkids to read your posts here, sometimes. Still feeling cocky?

I cannot, will not, don't expect to be able to police this forum, nor would want that onerous task in the slightest. But threads like this at least demonstrate that, without SOME form of collective self-censorship, it devolves into what we all saw here. A pack of schoolyard bullies, ganging up on a newcomer expressing an opinion about an arranger. And, you know what...? Were she NOT a 'she', I don't think one of you would have made the slightest retraction.

Pretty welcoming, wouldn't you say?

Is this a normal day here?
I am sorry I caused a problem..I think it is best if I am excused. Thank you.

When everybody is their normal selves, you never know what can happen here...

[This message has been edited by ytlevine (edited 10-23-2008).]

Sorry, but this problem existed LONG before you got here.

You were simply the latest in a long line of left-handed welcomes, here.

Please stick around, and say what you have to say. Only now, I guess you realize you don't have to be so polite about it

And I should care about "disappointing you....why?
I think you actually relish being the forum cop.The self appointed "voice of reason." The "cultural conscience" of the forum.The admonisher of those who cross your sensibilities.

I also think First Act can handle the heat as she proved without your defense, as would my daughters. God Forbid someone calls them a name....on an Internet forum no less.....eeek...I raised them to accept others and not take opinions personally. Something you have yet to learn with you self righteous nose in the air. Here in the US you need to have a thick skin and be give and take criticism. Its not always eloquent or sugar coated. It doesn't have to be

Her gender makes no difference. She hit and ran. I don't blame some for coming on hard.
I'm not making a retraction on that account. In fact I accept her apology...



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-23-2008).]

Well, it's obvious you don't give a damn about anyone, or anything...

Exactly the person I would LOVE to have a conversation with

You know, you swim in sh*t long enough, you don't even THINK it smells... Best of luck in a face to face with me. In fact, best of luck in a face to face with ANYBODY. You bring that attitude, you're going to get painted 'a$$hole' every time.

I simply don't understand why on a forum, you can say something with a clean conscience that you would NEVER say to their face...

Are you a 'coward' in real life, and an 'a$$hole' in print..?

Or both?

I guarantee, face to face with Class Act (such an out of place name in this joint!), not ONE of you would have been so rude and obnoxious. Hide behind your 'monickers'. Pretend that class and politeness don't matter any more.

You KNOW it isn't true...

All I've been trying to say is that, once you KNOW someone here, then maybe (although this forum often takes stuff extremely personally, considering we are supposed to be talking about a damn MACHINE for Pete's sake!) then is the time to get all up in their grill

But newcomers deserve the benefit of the doubt, they are the lifeblood of this community. They are supposed to be welcomed with open arms, or at least something less than outright hostility. I'm sorry, but I think, on the whole, the forum agrees with me, here (they certainly all chime in when they don't!). Retractions abound, etc., etc..

Only you somehow seem to think that Class Act actually DESERVED her introduction here. Nice. Very nice. I get the warm fuzzies just thinking about it. Can't wait to introduce you to my mother...

There's certainly only one Class Act on this thread... (and it ain't me!)

Then THAT's where you should have stopped......ya think?

And believe this ANYTHING I would say on a forum I would say to one's face....and have. You are just a little too ...sensitive?
All those cute little smiles and stuff...Hell even First Act showed more strength then you . Whining about everyone's "introduction".

You DO impress me though...I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-23-2008).]

As an in frequent poster and mostly a lurker, I have to throw in my 2 cents. Diki you come across like one arrogant frustrated old man, who probably is very disappointed in himself where he wound up in the music business. You need to tone it down quite a bit. You are always on a soapbox. And I'm out of here too...........

Well Diki its just a reflection of how our society is going where manors, being considerate and just general civilization is being rejected. When you have people on a public internet forum who basically are rood and are insulting and respond like general a**** just because they do not agree with someone else’s opinion about the sound and use of a keyboard, and those people make no apologies about it, society is in bad shape. It says a lot about their upbringing and lack of respect of general societal norms. Especially when those people public and openly defend and actually support that behavior. They even go as far to say others must accept them being rood and in a sense be like them.
IMO that is what is most disturbing about the situation is that people know their behavior is wrong and unacceptable but still choose to defend and try to convince the regular civilized society that their wrong behavior should be accepted as right.
Society today just does not know or refuses to accept behavior that is polite.
If I were to sum it all up in one word, it would be intolerance.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 10-24-2008).]

Let me add to this discussion,

I have Tyros 3s, PA2xpro, SD5, SD1+, Midjays, in-stock

Thank You

Frank www.audioworksct.com

OK: send two of each to my address.

WOW! Well here's another topic that went down the crap-shoot.., and fast too.

ClassAct.., Sorry your post ended up where it is now. I would hope the few ignorant bullies here don't stop you from posting.

Bottom line.., you bought the T3.., didn't like it.., and stayed with your PSR-8000. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. That was YOUR choice. You don't have to explain yourself to ANYONE on this forum and don't let these guys bully you. Sadly there are some here that from the moment someone says ANYTHING negative about a keyboard they will be in your face expecting a 10 page report on why you made your decision.

You already explained it. Your explanation was simple and sweet too. You essentially said the board was too much for you CASE CLOSED. Hell.., that's about as honest as you can get..., and so many of these bullies here have too much pride to admit that themselves!

This forum can be a very cool place to post, and it can also be a rough place at times. Some here feel they need to constantly defend the makers of the keyboard THEY chose and from the moment someone says anything negative about the maker they will hound you with ignorant posts.

Enjoy your PSR-8000 Music isn't about always having the latest and greatest gear. It's the skill of the player that makes the board sing.

One definitely wonders if 'Class' Act (can't even be bothered to get the name right, eh, oh mighty King?) had posted about a Ketron, or Roland, whether the outrage over it would have even occurred to these dear, sweet people.

No... attacking (or criticizing, as it is known in less ignorant surroundings) someone's arranger is not a problem to these kindhearted, shining examples of American values. Only criticizing THEIRS...

Pathetic.

Go home and swear at your mothers. Presumably, she deserves it too. After all, you're just 'keeping it real', eh?

And I have met so many in the music business who are in positions few of you could even dream about. And not one of them were as rude, and unapologetic as you are. Perhaps there's a connection?

Stop this nonsense. Its got nothing to do with whether 'Class act" critiques a wersi, ketron or yamaha or casio. It has to do with the very suspicious circumstances of the posting. When class act posted in August and simply said hi he/she got several responses and was warmly welcomed and invited to introduce himself/herself to the forum but strangely said nothing. Never responded to those welcomes.Then pops up 2 months later with a posting that was bound to cause some critiscism on the most obviously ill judged "purchase" (on the face of the limited information given) of the T3 or any other high end musical instrument that cost as much as a small car !! If he/she had said that the sound had disappointed them because it wasnt as good as the hype from yamaha marketing suggseted then i might just about understand although the online demos would have given any ordinary person some idea of the quality of sound.If it was amatter ofpersonal taste in sound this would have been very evident from the online demos that were around weeks before the T3 was launcghed. and the Demos of the T2 that were online years before that sounded very similar to the T3. Neither of them sound anything like the P{SR8000 at all !! But to say that the PSR8000 sounded better than the T3 is simply incredulous. I shouldnt have said that he/she was stupid but her/his account of the decision to buy a $3000 + dollar instrument that she had obviously not researched , not listned to a demo or read a manual was a stupid one if his/her story is true.

If there is a 'Mr Spencer" on the forum just come forward and say you know Class Act and all this bickering can stop. I will publically apologise and we can get on with the usual stuff. You dont have to say anything else. But forgive me if i check when you register on this forum....

If Class Act wants to come and share or contribute , comment or lurk on the forum noone is stopping her. And if i have completely misjudged her/him then come and introduce yourself class act and lets swop tips on the PSR8000 i still have mine. Maybe i can help you get deeper into that instrument so the transition to the T1 or T2 which is at bargain prices right now might be less of a jump. Even if you choose to stick with the psr8000 we could still chat about why it was/is such a great instrument. What do you say ?

Mmmm...I think Nigel's last name is Spencer, isn't it?

Then Nigel should have no problem verifying that class act is in fact an individual he knows. I have no problem in apologising to anyone. Its not a big deal to me. Grown men dont run off crying if they make an ass of themselves. They do waht it takes to put things right . I am not running anywhere.

Chased another one away.............Way to go!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr -charley

Nah! I think she'll be back. Based purely on the "moxy" she showed by coming back on to make a subsequent post, even though she was smashed (unfairly and unkindly) at the start.

Shows good "ticker"..

Dennis

You see the problem in asking for a little common courtesy (not as common as one would like) and getting a response like this..?

If I respond in kind, and tell the poster what a prick they are, I sound like I've simply given up and dropped to their level. If I don't tell them what an asshole they sound like themselves, they somehow get the impression that I really don't mind being called an arrogant, frustrated old man

What's a boy to do?

"Nah! I think she'll be back. Based purely on the "moxy" she showed by coming back on to make a subsequent post, even though she was smashed (unfairly and unkindly) at the start"

No one was chased off. If she /he is genuine then she/he will be back and will tell us a little bit about herself and her instrument like most people here do and not hit and run. Its not difficult and i am sure i am not the only person on here that is suspicious of her posting but would be willing to welcome her warmly as was done the first time she posted (and did not respond). But i call it as i see it. Her posts dont smell right to me. If i am wrong then let her come back , lets talk about our instruments and we go from there....but i wont apologise unreservedly to someone who's credibility is to me so suspect and i will take whatever flak anyone wants to post. If ' Mr spencer' wont speak up for Class Act then please let her father who "is a regular on synthzone" come and say something in favour of your daughter. I am happy to squash this and apologise to both you and your daughter. Please just come forward and settle the matter for me. And then as far as i am concerned the matter is finished.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 10-24-2008).]

Apparently you have not met Gene Simmons....But I digress.

Perhaps that's exactly your problem (as was stated by Pacesetter who nailed it),

You met people in the "biz" we could only dream about (as if we all share in your dreams) but alas never yourself became the "it" guy someone else could say THEY met and brag about it.....

I get it now. I understand your bitterness,and desperate need for credibility. And your vitriolic response when challenged.

All those wasted chops, likely stemming from probable strict early classical education, years of painful Hanon, with dreams of largess......... only to end up playing an Arranger keyboard in all it's glory singing and playing for a room full of drinking fools,singing for your supper with the remnants of your pride held together by a thread of self respect....and perhaps even being called now and then to help another wannabee who might actually look up to you with your vast knowledge and skill set but yet unrealized dream.

A Person doesn't even need a license to understand your frustration. I think you deserve my Moniker more than I.

Perhaps you should cut off an ear......



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-25-2008).]

And you honestly think this post makes you seem LESS of a sanctimonious old fart?

I am amazed

Hey, Nigel... can I take the gloves off yet?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-25-2008).]

What does all this have to do with the Disappointment of Tyros 3?

Nothing at all DNJ. Just like the original post.

But there are surly nice pictures of Wizards

Some of you guys really need to go back and look at your posts again. For Pete's sake it's so freakin OBVIOUS why so many here are either scared off or just stay as lurkers. Who the hell made so many of you on this forum "Judge and Jury" of the arranger world?

Spalding.., with all do respect your responses just reek of arrogance and disrespect man. Read between your own lines and try to see what either a lurker or new member sees. I've always valued your input, but I don't think you realize how your posts come off at times.., and how judgemental they appear.

The problem with this forum is that a person can't just come in here post and leave it at that. There are so many Zone-Robo-Cops in here it's not even funny. Maybe you'd see more participation from new members and lurkers if this damn PROVE YOURSELF WITH EVERY POST mentallity was to just stop. Every word you say gets judged here. You say something that another member may not agree with and it's PROVE YOURSELF.

I swear at times this place could put out sequel after sequel to "Grumpy old Men". One person says this about brand A.., then all supporters of brand A start throwing poo. Same goes for brand B, C, D, Blah Blah Blah. Give it a rest guys. Just let people post. Geez.., it's clear this forum needs a woman or two posting every day. Too much male hormone in the air. Rather than speaking as a groups (who clearly have years upon years of very useful knowledge to share with the arranger community).., you guys just puff out your chests and are always trying to one up the other.

Some thoughts...

1) It's generally considered a sign of rudeness or ignorance to use harsher language than necessary when participating in a forum like this.

2) Given there is virtually no "filter" for people to join SZ, its naive to expect any different kind of breakdown than we'd usually find in any other musical circles. There are those members who are always polite, helpful and stay above the fray. They don't push buttons for the sake of doing so. There are also other personalities that for whatever reason prefer to be more hostile, rude, inconsiderate, etc. Who know why they do this...its probably an extension of their personality.

If you take 10 musicians...even KB players you're going to find significant differences in their personalities.

All the participants in this thread, I think are knowledgeable musicians. However, personalities have gotten in the way of the original, long forgotten post.

To be contrary or "edgy" or whatever the hell you want to call it isn't cool. It doesn't usually lead to some intense epiphany. It does usually lead to a distraction that has nothing to do with the original post.

Think about it...Haven't we all met musicians we liked being around and some we wouldn't? Its the same thing here.

Most guys, given the choice will go out of their way to be polite. Others, prefer to go a different way.

Threads like this are extremely boring for most of us, hopefully this one can be done with soon...


------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 10-25-2008).]

he said "Freakin" hehehehe

Donny did you miss the "poo" word?

Seriously squeak....it was great post.
Eddie

No Eddie I wanted to leave that find for you congrats!

"Poo"...wasn't he a bear?

Oh, wait now....that was "Pooh".

Judging, admonishing, and belly bumping...typical day on SZ.


Ian

What I don't get is how a thread about nothing can go on so long. We're in our...let me see...4th day on this topic so far. Some people really have an adiction to their online personality. Honestly, is their anyone reading or participating in this thread who doesn't know what Diki's opinion is on the matter, or Spalding1968's? or Kingfrog's? I can't think of one salient point said by anyone on page 2 that wasn't said in page 1, and now we're well on our way to page 3.
Note to self: never read a thread that is over 20 posts long.

I may be a 53 year old fart, But I am not frustrated in the least. And I certainly am not out to impress you. I usually look UP to people I'd like to impress. I traveled the US world performing (albeit as someone else)for many many years in various sizes of venues from 100,000 plus at Daytona Speedway to small Amphitheaters in Utah,Showrooms in Vegas ,AC, Sheveport, Theaters in Branson and countless conventions, all the ay to Diego Garcia and back. I worked with hundreds of the best musicians (who probably wanted more out of life than backing impersonator shows) but that was my fate. "Tribute artist" (to polish a turd)...... I accepted it. It paid for my home and more, I met my wife along the way I sold some of my own music.

Never became a star. I played a C-3 in cover bands as a teen an in College. Didn't care for it. Found my "calling" through Karaoke in the mid eighties in San Diego which led to bigger things and along the way my "playing" got "better" upon the release of Cakewalk I and sequencer city. Songwriting has always been my first love for passing time. It's my "golf", my "video game", my "fishing", my pleasure, I have no illusions about my songs, Its all about the journey always has been. THAT'S why I'm not frustrated. I'm still on the journey even now as I sell musical instruments to hose with big dreams. I love it.

I am not bitter. My wife humbles my playing everyday and her ability to still play for the few who would actually listen at different times in noisy bar crowds is something I respect and find amazingly humble. She has all the preschool formal training and more, has played music her whole life for her supper and there is not a shred of bitterness in her either. She has played in hair band in the 80's, major production shows, and now small clubs as a single. It's all the same to her.

Its a shame you are so bitter and needy with all those skills and blustery(conviction?).

So DIKI.......If you really "need" to "take off the gloves" to feel better, go right ahead. I can take a punch. I will assure you though I have taken much harder punches for a far longer time as an impersonator of Neil Diamond then a single frustrated musician can deal out on an Internet forum. Believe it.

Release the dogs Nigel...




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-25-2008).]

As a member who rarely posts but who comes on SZ and reads all the posts every day, I find it hard to believe that so much controversy arises simply because one person decides they don't like the Tyros3.

I thought the idea of SZ was to enable keyboard lovers to share their thoughts, likes and dislikes, offer help and advice and to discuss, like grown adults, the various merits / drawbacks of the instruments we use or may intend to purchase, or the way we use them and the relative ease with which we can perform with them.

I am man enough to take any flack which heads my way but still don't go out of my way to offend any other member - this would seem to be the opposite of the sites aims but unfortunately, we do seem have some spoilt children with oversized ego's among us. There also seems to be an unspoken belief that a new members opinion counts for far less than that of long time members - Not so. The size of the venue or crowd that one plays to is also irrelevant and doesn't excuse insulting people for having a view contrary to your own. We are not on a stage with the big stars but participating in a forum where the opinion of each one of us is just as valid as all the others.

I am not here to decry Tyros3 or any other keyboard because I know, and so should all the other poster's that we are still a long way from a board which ticks all the boxes. As they all leave something to be desired, there should be no reason to object to a post where someone says that I don't like Brand X model Y.

I play the Technics KN7000 and a Solton MS40 module and, due to Technics sad demise, I need to move on to a new brand and, with the ready cash burning a hole in my pocket, I was looking forward to the Tyros3 which I judged, would be the nearest thing to the perfect board. Although it has SOME good sounds and features, Yamaha have missed the chance to surge way in front of all the other makers and many people ARE disappointed. The pitiful amount of User Memory is one big drawback, with the Music Finder's lack of features found in Korg's Song Book being another. Style creation and editing is a long way behind Roland’s and not a patch on my old Technics. Tyros3 does sound nice, especially organs (and so it should at the price), but not the leap forward I expected. Many people are disappointed with the new piano voice and it would seem that the board needs some user tweaking sound wise, when it should sound good out of the box. As for all the references to the online demo's - so it should sound good (and so does every other board) with the worlds leading players on the keys.

I also like Roland’s but top of range G70 & E80 are both too big and heavy - getting a bit long in the tooth too - and there is no news of a new board from them.

Korg’s demo's sound good too but fills seem problematic and there are not enough styles around for them - I use song specific or heavily tweaked styles so that no two songs use the same style. I don't live in the sticks but in the 5th or 6th largest city in England and yet, no dealers in my locality means Korg are as hard to audition and buy as Ketron, who also make good sounding boards - but where is the Audya and where are the dealers?

In short - Any chance that we can discuss keyboards / music instead of trading insults and childish arguments?

When Class Act made the original post that she was disappointed with the Tyros3, she was, unfortunately, not specific about why she was disappointed with the keyboard. However, she clearly stated that she liked her PSR-8000 because of the complexity of the Tyros3 was a bit too much for her technical expertise--at least that's the way it read to ME!

So, instead of jumping in and trying to diagnose her problems and provide some solid technical assistance, the post was hijacked, twisted around, she was castigated by individuals that do not know anything about her and by the time the thread made it to the second page there were sparring matches popping up everywhere. This poor lady is probably thinking to herself "What in the hell did I get myself into?"

I don't know a damned thing about the Tyros3 other than what I've read on the various forums. If I did have some basic technical knowledge of the T3 I would have asked why that person was unhappy, and if there was anything that I could do to help. I can also say that 99 percent of the owners are more than happy with their purchase.

On some of the other forums there have been numerous posts of how to set the keyboard's EQ and compression settings to get the most out of the sounds, plus lots of other useful tips. On the Synthzone, especially during the past year, help from all but a few forum members is nearly non-existent. Instead, bitch and gripe sessions seem to take over threads containing the most basic questions.

IMO, which I realize does not count for a lot lately, NO ONE has the God given right to be rude or inconsiderate to anyone--whether it's on an Internet forum, over the telephone, or face to face. Yes, we all have the right to express our opinions, but civilized people usually do this in a civil manner. If you do not have the ability to communicate with some degree of civility with other forum members, what happens when you meet someone in person? Are you rude and arrogant toward family members, people you meet on the street, individuals that attend your performances?

Simon, this post got out of hand two pages ago, and I sincerely hope you will delete the entire thread ASAP. Additionally, I would hope you would reprimand the few individuals that have obviously stepped over the fine line of civility.

Gary

You have hit the nail right on the head, Gary. The sooner this topic is erased the better. Talk about a cat fight!!

BrisbaneJim

I said this statement about a year or two ago and I Stopped looking at this forum and posting on it.

Some people just have too much time on their hands...

I starting visting this site again as the Tyros 3 was comming out to see what to see what sort of conversation there was but everything is still the same as it ever was, nothing has changed.

Same people bickering to eachother for internet fame. This place still flourishes with 'Keyboard Rambos'.

If i didnt have any previous experience on this site and had never even seen it before and viewed it for the first time today I would think this is some exclusive club for arrogant children, or in Aussie terms we would call it a 'G up'.

Nick

Ok. If Mr spencer or Class Acts dad would just like to say something on her behalf....anything i will apologise unconditionally for my aggressive and arrogant post. I cant be fairer than that.

Why not simply apologize without her having to ASK for it?

It was either wrong, or it wasn't...

I know SOME of you feel bad about this, Others don't give a rat's ass. I know who I'd rather hang with.

If i knew who i was apologising too or i belived i was wrong i would apologise. I dont believe i was wrong or that Class Act or her dad exists as they have been represented. Thats been my only arguemnt irrespective of the other personality clashes that have happened here.

I'm also choosy who i hang with. But thats my judgemental side.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 10-26-2008).]

Ahhh.... BUT...

What if they DID?

Better to err on the side of courtesy, or on the side of what you feel guilty for?

How hard is it to apologize, for Pete's sake? You feeling kind of queazy, or something? What's a retraction cost you? Your soul?!

You wouldn't have even posted if you felt as justified as others on this thread. (Mind you, you've read their posts... you really think SHE should apologize to THEM? )

It takes a MAN to just suck it up and take the high road. You honestly think that Class Act should post here to explain WHY you should apologize?

If you don't already know (like so many others here), you wouldn't have posted in the first place...

I dont understand what you mean dikki. What if they did what ?

There are lots of posts on here but you may have mised this one.23/10/08

I said Class Act

" I am sorry if i insulted your intelligence.I hope its not a mistake you will make too often. Many people on other forums come just to create trouble and misrepresent just for the hell of it. I get upset by people with only bad intentions on their minds and i overeacted.

If i am honest (and i am) i still am suspicious of you. But if i am wrong i apologise. Stick around and tell us about yourself and your music and your PSR8000. You dont have to prove anything to me and we dont have to be friends. But it would be nice if we could start a fresh and get to know each other.'

I have made my position clear. If i believed that this persons post was genuine i would apologise without hesitation . I dont believe this post is genuine. Its not a dificult matter for either Mr spencer or Class Acts dad who is supposedly a regular visitor/poster hear to simply says " she's my daughter or i know her" . But nothing so far....

I have already apologised for insulting her/his intelligence if this was a genuine purchase and invited her to come back and introduce themselves to the forum. I dont feel any guilt for what i have posted. Dont try and second guess my views or opinions. You dont have to. Ask me outright and i will freely tell you. As yopu can see i have no problem in apologising. I just dont believe this post is genuine. Simple as that.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 10-26-2008).]

And that's it, in a nutshell...

You are basically calling the poster a liar.

Just because she holds views differently to yours.

I don't see anything that PROVES she's has any other agenda than what she posted. Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned. But I was raised to believe what others say unless shown proof otherwise. Not to assume that anything I hear that I don't agree with MUST be a lie until proved otherwise.

But it illustrates how badly things have gotten, IMO.

"Everyone's a liar, except me and you... and I don't trust you one little bit!"

Hi

When the time is ample debate will be endless.

Use time wisely. It is a resource we never get back.

Have a nice day!
Jørgen

------------------
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

I agree with Diki... Spalding with all do respect.., what Diki said is exactly how I saw your responses. You basically take the position that the person is a liar until they prove to you otherwise.., even though they've given you no reason to think so.

Just because a person doesn't have 100+ posts doesn't make their opinions any less valuable than the next guy. With all do respect Spalding it's posts like yours and others that keep some members as lurkers. Some of us get specific questions in direct email from lurkers because they're afraid to post here as they've seen so many new comers get attacked.

Again, the problem is this "prove yourself" position that so many take here. You say anything that others disagree with, but rather than agree to just disagree it goes on and on and on. Then you end up with 4 pages of bickering.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-26-2008).]

i dont know what planet you are on Dikki. I have no issue with people having different views to me or you. If you read that in my posts i am surprised. Read up around what trolls do how they behave and how they post hit and run on forums such as this. I have said that strongly suspect Class Act is a Troll. It has nothing to do with anyone having different views to me. And so you dont somehow misunderstand me, i am saying taht i dont believe the posters represented views are genuine because of the circumstances of the post. This could easily be rebutted by the very people she asked on this forum not to disclose her identity . The dad that is a regular here and Mr spencer (funny how she not scared revealing anyone else identity but not her own) could have easily vindicated his daughter without disclosing her identity or their own . I find it strange that the only people not vouching for her are the people who genuinely could But the people vouching for her are people who could not !

You can take everyone at their word if you want to Diki. I think its admirable. I have lived a little and when someone spins me a story that smells bad i say it stinks , i dont pretty it up. If you were class Acts dad or a friend wouldnt you have said something by now...... I have explained precisley why is suspect Class Act to be a Troll and it is not because she has a differnet opinion to me. Read my posts (if you wish) and you wll see my position clearly .



[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 10-26-2008).]

I'm sorry, but just because the poster preferred an older, familiar arranger over the latest Yamaha wunderkind doesn't mean that they are a troll...

Ask all the people playing Technics, or older Ketrons, Soltons, Roland's, Korg's, etc., etc..

Are they ALL trolls?

Spalding.., read your last post again. Can you not see the arrogance and ignorance in that response? Seriously put yourself in ClassAct's position man.

Why in the world should she have to justify herself to you or ANY other member on this forum?

Class Act basically said she tried the Tyros 3 didn't like it and stuck with her PSR-8000. So what if she said she thinks the 8000 sounds better. Last time I checked sound quality is a very subjective topic. It may be hard for you to swallow that someone prefers the sound of the 8000 over the T3.., but why can't you just take it as that? She didn't bash the T3.

You then insult this member by suggesting she's a troll. Get over yourself Spalding. Once again...,you prove how arrogant and ignorant this place can be. She doesn't owe you any explanation at all. If you can't accept it.., that's your problem.., but to suggest she's a troll is flat out IGNORANT.

As long as new-comers are met with responses like yours Spalding this forums members will continue to dwindle and more members will just become lurkers. You're not the Zone-Cop. You don't have the right to demand members prove themselves to you.

Your right . I am not the Zone Cop. Neither are either you or diki with respect. If i have behaved out of order, report me to Nigel and i am happy to discuss with him whatever aspects of my posts he has a problem with as i am with you and Diki .I will take whatever reprimand he hands out. Class Act does not have to prove herself to me or anyone. I said that already in my previous posts. I am not going to explain myself again when what i wrote and why i wrote it is clear to see. But we are not going to agree on this. I can live with that.

Well, I've had my T3 for less than 48 hours, and it's definitely messed up. The organ voices have mega-distortion if DSP switch is ON (as it is by default). If I turn OFF DSP, the distortion goes away.

I think I just have either a bad DSP chip or motherboard.

Yes, I notice the problem with the OTS buttons and the right-hand voices are improper levels OTB... that's a major irritant.

When it works, this thing is god-like in its sound, and I just want one that works. I am asking Yami to swap me out for a "good unit" since this once was so sick brand-new OTB.

*********** happy news - operator error! ******
I spoke with Steve D. at Yami and duh, those 'distorted' organ voices were designed that way to be 'ballsy' for rock songs! Once I recognized the idea, it made sense, and in fact I use those default voices quite often in lieu of a "gruff" synth, the gruff organ voices are actually pretty cool

However, you can edit the sounds if you don't like the gravely organ voices...

Someone on this board told me how to edit the individual voice parameters, and sure enough, my 'distorted voices' were easily resolved by pressing the VOICE SET button and then changing some of the parameters to reduce the overdrive on the organ sounds!

The two voices were ProgRockOrgan and
Rock Rotary. Once I reduced the OFFSET on each of these and saved them as USER voices, my problems disappeared.

Steve D. reminded me that many folks have been clamoring for some time for tougher, edgier organ voices, and not every sound will appeal to every end-user... the idea is to find the sounds you enjoy and want to use, and modify the ones you don't... or add more!

One thing the marketing folks might consider is to let potential purchasers in on the 'big secret' that not every voicing will be something YOU (the buyer) want, but the idea is to buy an A/W with as many great sounds as you can find, the Tyros 3 fulfills that for me, big time.

The problem with a board in the range of the T3 is that a person's 'expectations' may be 'too high' on 'every' voicing. If you look at it as a grouping of instruments, the value is really there. I mean Les Pauls are like $899 (studio) and up to what $3, 4, 5 k?? So a T3 with all of its capabilities, I think is a great value.

Once you've had your hands on a T3, you'll be spoiled rotten, just in terms of the amazing sounds and stuff you can record to the hard drive... in very few takes... and you can make it simple and clean or you can muddy the waters with many bounced tracks...

Sure, in a perfect world, you're doing your recording on a kazillion-track computer and you're punching in and out and refining and mixing and remixing... but the beauty of the Tyros 3 is that you accomplish very acceptable recording results with JUST THE TYROS 3... and that for a non-techie end-user, the simplicity of recording "in real time" (duh, no latency problems, no synch problems, all the other headaches one encounters trying to record via PC), the actual recording experience is simpler and FASTER and MUCH LESS STRESSFUL than the PC route (IMHO).

My hat's off to Yamaha, great product.

I know, RTFM, but still, some of the stuff in the manual is kind of hard to figure out, especially if you're a newbie to TOTL boards.

The touch on the Tyros 3 keyboard greatly affects instrument sounds, and adjusting the OFFSET (touch) will make some sounds greatly improved. For another example, the saxaphones sounded odd to me unless I literally hammered the keys. I changed the offset value and this meant less key pressure to get more velocity out of the keystroke, and voila, the sounds improved.

Best of all, when you save them as "USER" sounds, you don't overwrite or destroy the factory sounds, in case you decide down the road to sell or share the board.

Thanks to all on this BBS for their help, particularly the one kind soul who put me on to this entire concept. I was pretty disturbed that this didn't meet my expectations, in reality, like many have written, to me it sounds better and better. Still, I wish some of the styles were better balance between the four OTB voices, sometimes it really jumps up or down in volume (particularly if the 'classical guitar' voice is in there, it's way too low).

I would love to contribute to yamaha QA product meetings on the Tyros, and I think many of the members of SZ could be of even greater impact (to Yamaha) than I could because you all have greater experience and ability.

To Class Act, I hope you won't totally give up on the Tyros, though I respect your reaction. I had the SAME thought when I encountered poor sounds right out of the box. I imagined it was "too hard" to operate, or maybe even "defective". In truth, it's NOT defective, and it's really not (so far) too hard to operate.

Overall, it's a LOT nicer sounding in many areas compared to my PSR S900, which I really liked and enjoyed. I can see ultimate value in the Tyros 3 long-term in terms of being able to express yourself.

The piano sound (once you tweak it some) is really pretty good overall, yes it's a little weak still in the middle, but it's MUCH better (once you TWEAK IT) than the PSR S900 piano voice IMHO.

Well, back to practice...

[This message has been edited by rsm2000e (edited 02-09-2009).]

[This message has been edited by rsm2000e (edited 02-13-2009).]