Too many great toys....

I just have too much stuff,,,and it is all great..in different ways..

I just purchased another Roland E-60..my second round with this board..

It is definitely an alternative ( a poor man's G70.. )...

I can't find a reason to sell (dump) any of my current boards..

My G70..is the cream of the top..does virtually anything I need a board for..even at more than 46 pounds..it is my "Heavy weight champion"

My E-60 is the perfect board with the trio (band)...with most of the same sounds and features from the G70..that are important for me....28 pounds too..

My M-Audio Sono 88...is a Super keyboard controller with it's built in Audio/midi interface, and sound source..Mixing capable from the Sono88..This is also great with the band ...and for recording in the studio..

My EMU X board 61..is the best feature laden controller I ever owned..4 zones and every assignable feature..great key feel too..Perfect controlling my soft synths...

My perfect as in new DX-7..is just to perfect to sell..it is stored away..Just knowing I own it is enough..

My 1963 custom made accordion..isn't going anywhere..it is as good as they come..and is still perfect..can't tell from new..

Guys and gals...if you see me offering the E-60 for sale...STOP me!!!! Remind me how I missed my first one after I sold it..

The Sono88 is some what available...I like it...a lot!!..But easily replaceable (newest model)...the rest of my boards..are staying put....

Almost forgot the Media Station....It is also only available if/when I get an updated model from Dom.....hint [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]

And yes...the E-70 has a new home... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

As if you will take any more notice of us than the last time...



So it can sound like a GOOD Casio instead of the bad one it does now?

Fran, pull that DX-7 out and play with it man! You can create some really great sounds with that synth... Sure we got all these repros in today's keyboards that replicate the DX, but you got THE REAL DEAL MAN! Give her some lovin

For someone who has and can keep so many items, I hope you now know why it is imperative to keep the G70 and E60. they are so similar that there is little reason to have to lug the heavy G70 around. Yet the E60 is missing some important elements that can only be found on the G70. So this time Fran, hold onto that E60.

I still love mine, just wish someone would drop a G70 on my back porch.

I wasn't gonna mention this, BUT, I acquired an E50. I plan to use it until the Ketron Audya arrives. So far, so good. It does a lot of things right, but I have to find a way to make the piano sound like one.
DonM

Don..,what about the piano bothers you on the E-50? I may be able to give you a few sound editing suggestions to bring out specific areas of the tone/patch if you're interested.

Well to me it sounds dull and lifeless. I got some tweaks from the Roland forum and I am going to try editing one or more of the voices.
I certainly appreciate any help I can get.
DonM

Ok....., dull and lifeless can go both ways Is the sound too dark, too bright, weak in the middle? 9 times out of 10 Don, a good piano patch can be made by adjustments to the filters, and minute adjustments to ADSR can bring a piano to life.

First thing I'd do (if you haven't already) is completey strip the sound of "EFFECTS". Sometimes a good tone/patch is lost due to poor preset effects.

Make sure that any adjustments to synth parameters are done before adding effects... This way you can hear the changes you make to the pure tone/patch itself. Then you can color it a bit more with effects.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-10-2008).]

Weak in the middle probably comes closest. I am leaving to go spend a couple of hours with it at the club.
Thanks,
DonM

Which one are you using?

Try the ClassicPiano. As far as I can tell from demos, it's the one from the G70. But it sounds as if it needs the filter opened up a bit. Try adding some small positive values to the cutoff parameter (maybe between +5 and +10)

One thing to bear in mind is... go play a real piano. Unfortunately, most arranger manufacturers force us to use a very bright, brittle sound (especially Yamaha), which after a while you simply get used to, and assume it's SUPPOSED to be like that. It is not! Sure, you want some sparkle when you open it up on them, but warmth and detail is important at low and mid velocities, IMO.

Two things to do... First try using the Recorder to 'capture' a recording of you playing the piano, then play it back on good speakers (not the built-ins). Sit back, relax, and ask yourself does it sound like a REAL piano?

It may take a while to get used to the less 'hyped' piano sound, but trust me.. I've been using the G70's piano on first call sessions to everybody's satisfaction - and we even have a Steinway in the studio! Once you start to compare it to the real thing, and not the others' brittle, 'cut at any cost' offerings, hopefully it will start to grow on you

Diki's right. Try adjusting your filters. Opening up the cutoff a lot of times makes a huge difference in the sound. If you want a warmer.., and more darker type of piano go in the - direction, but if you need to brighten the sound up a bit go in the + direction. You can also tap the high end a bit after adjusting the cutoff by moving the reso. in the + direction..., but be careful there as going too far will make the sound very metallic.

If you want to bring out the middle register too..., after making filter adjustments..., EQ the patch (obviously using at the minimal a 3-band) Also consider the speaker system of the unit you're using. It's not at all uncommon to have TWO versions of the same sound. One edited for internal speaker play, and the other tweeked for use with outboard speakers.

Good Luck.

I have to agree that the weakest sound on any arranger is the piano sound. The way I've always looked at it is that compared to all of the things an arranger does, I can tweak and learn how to live with the piano sound. There's no way in hell at this point in my career that I'n going to haul in another board for a better piano sound. Enough said.

Ciao,

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Excactly Joe, 2 KB lugging not me ....on top of that all the
Hub Bub about sounds & their little nuances means nothing when they are all together & lost in the style mix ........recording seperatly is a whole different story.....

Sorry, guys... obligatory fanboy spew about to appear , but...

That's the reason I haul the G70 around. Sure, I'd LOVE a nice 26 lb. load-in! But first, the G70 piano is surpassed by very little, including several VSTi's I've tried, latency is undetectable (faster than any computer system I've used - I CAN hear and feel about 3-2 ms difference in latency, from messing with my sound card a lot, and that hardware responsiveness is tough to achieve on even the latest, greatest CPU's), and the attached keyboard is the best compromise between full piano and full organ available.

If it comes in a 45 lb. package, so be it. I wouldn't compromise EITHER of those features to save even 10 lb. of weight.

Utterly convincing piano, a decent B3 emulation (better than most), and a keyboard you can use for BOTH are my BASIC 'must have's' before any other consideration even matters.

That kind of narrows the field, IMO....

On my S900, I usually turn the brightness on the filter down to 52...takes the harder edge off a bit, and works real nice for jazz ballads.


Ian

I agree with Diki... IMO the best onboard arranger piano preset I've heard is from the G-70... The G-70's piano shares it's beautiful sound from the Fantom X's piano. So you're getting the piano from one of their top synths. You want to FEEL and HEAR a great piano patch.. Play the X8.., those weighted keys and that sound were a match made in heaven.

Roland's also trickling this down to the lower line too. That new GW-8 is supposed to have some great piano patches as it's using a sound set based on the Fantom/SonicCell.

I created a great piano voice just over a year ago, but alas, it's a Yamaha voice so it won't be of any use for Korg and Roland users. You can find it at www.psrtutorial.com You can probably do the same thing on Korg and Roland arrangers, but it does take a fair amount of time.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

The piano voice you made is excellent Gary...I have passed it on to many of my clients...thank you.

Ian

Don, try the Multi FX #7..Enhancer...Start with classic piano and use enhancer...I think this is what you are wanting..

I wouldn't suggest that though. You shoudn't have to rely soley on the MFX to clean up a piano sound--although SOMETIMES sloppy preset effects settings can kill a sound. I would say most of the time all it takes is minute adjustments to the filters and sometimes a few changes to the ADSR. The MFX shouldn't be used as the MAIN edit for the sound IMO. I think the sound should be edited DRY first..., then in the end add that final touch by coloring it a bit with MFX if you choose.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-11-2008).]

Squeak, the E series is designed to use a MFX with each instrument sound..thus the enhancer is an easy fix without destroying the tone..

Really..., maybe I'm just old school I guess. I always learned to edit your sounds dry and not to start off with MFX as sometimes your sound can get lost in it...

I'm under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong), but an acoustic sample that requires the MFX to make it sound better often translates to a weak raw sample. I'm not saying this is the case with the E series as the soundset I'm sure is of good quality..., that's why I said that I felt relying on the MFX to fix it.., could be going in the wrong direction and being more of a band-aid fix to the problem.

For me, I'm sorry, but I don't believe the solution to the problem is to try to edit the Roland piano to be as bright and as brittle as you would like it to be. I really believe the answer is to adjust your ears away from the hype they've been subjected to, and learn to accept the piano sound as a more realistic impression of the real thing, than an EQ'd and compressed up facsimile...

The more you listen BACK to recordings you've made (rather than worrying about whether it'll 'cut' like you are used to while you are actually playing), the more you'll come to realize that the unhyped sound of the Roland piano is what sits in a mix perfectly, without jumping out.

For us, playing live, it's harder to appreciate when we are used to cutting through the densest mixes, but personally, I'd rather miss out on the 'EZ hearing' part live, than have a too brittle sound on playback (which is, after all, what the audience is REALLY hearing).

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-12-2008).]