Korg Pa 800 - Harmonizer and SMF

Hello,

I just bought a PA 800 and I am about to transfer hundreds of SMF into it (from my Roland G-70).

I am having some problems making the SMFs work with the Harmonizer. Anybody can help?

Thank you
MARCO

Marco is a very good customer of mine and he is getting into stuff I don't know about at my music store in California. I would appreciate any of you PA800 people that can help him learn how to use the songbook function with midi files and settings for the vocal harmonizer.
I know you will all come through for Marco (and me too!)


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Marco, the G70 analyze all the tracks of a SMF..so the harmonizer is easier and more efficient to use..

Most likely on the Korg , you will have to select a single track with in the SMF..unfortunately this best track can change from one SMF to another..The Yamaha , and Ketron work along the same principle as Korg..

I think you are going to find the G70 was a better harmonizer design..

Thank you Frank,
if that is the case, how do I identify which track to assign on each specific SMF? In better words, which track in a SMF should be selected for the harmonizer to work best? The bass track? Or the melody track? Or the piano track? I tried the piano or guitar track but every time the track stop performing the harmonizer stops as well interrupting the flow of the background vocals performance.

what is the best thing to do?

Thank you for your help
Marco

Marco,

SMF's that follow the Gm1/Gm2 spec will ALWAYS have the harmonising data on track 5, melody is on 4 and bass on 2, everyone knows drums are on 10.

All commercial midi file creators follow this, however if you get "freebies" you are getting what you pay for. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

You can set the PA800 to ANY track you want as the harmony (I personally use channel 15 but I do not use SMF's anyway, they are tweaked in many ways and fully utilise upper bank sounds and effects rather than the stock GM set).

I have written a tutorial on the Korg forums that explains how to use the harmoniser and set it up, it is under "External Midi setup Guide"

Dennis

Marco,
on the tune 1000 standard midi files that have a vocal harmony track written into the song (many of them do), they always use track 5. For non tune 1000 songs this might be different.
Hey Fran, can you get Uncle Dave to chime in here. I'm thinking since he uses the PA800 and sings and uses the vocal harmonizer he might have some good suggestions for Marco.


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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Dennis,
Your reply just posted at the same time as mine. We are both right! Thanks for your support.

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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Marco, George, The Tune 1000 SMF's with channel 5 assigned utilizes vocoder mode..

Marco this is why the harmony stops when their is no data being sent from any particular channel..

Although the Roland can also work as this in vocoder mode..Roland uses a better concept sending chord data to the preset harmonies..allowing you to switch on and off at will..The harmonies are always ready to sound...
You may want to experiment with the piano track usually channel 3..It is usually the busiest channel ..3 or 4 notes....

George, Dave works nearly always in vocoder mode, voicing the harmonies with his right hand..

thank you all for the quick responses.
I tried with a commercial SMF (A tune 1000) and assign the harmonizer to channel 5 but the harmonizer does not play in tune with the SMF...
in fact I have tried many different channels and many different SMF but the harmonizer never respond in tune with the SMFs..

Thanks George,
Yes I think that pretty much all the arrangers adopt the channel 5/4 combination as the default on the keyboards.It seems to be the adopted defacto standard now.

I have seen a quite few SMF's (from other commercially licenced suppliers) that are all following this.

Strictly speaking, I probably shouldn't say it's part of the spec, but its just as easy to say it that way, rather than enter into long explanations which can make it a lot more confusing, particularly for beginners.

Dennis

Marco, what setting do you have the PA set up with? (on the harmoniser) and have you edited any of the presets, or are you using the default "factory setups" ?

Dennis

I am using the default factory setups:

this is what I have on the keyboard:

on the GLOBAL: VOICE PROCESSOR SET UP: 01 DEFAULT
on the GLOBAL: VOICE PROCESSOR PRESET: 001 TC-HELICON
in the same window but on the HARMONY PAGE:
HARMONY OFF LATCH ON
HARMONY MODE: CHORD
PB Assign: off

I have never touched the above set up. It has been as it is since the first time I turned the keyboard on.

Go into menu/Midi settings (Not Global). Select Harmony track 5 for Tune 100 midi files or the one that is utilized for other midi files (Whatever that might be). If you use the drop down menu you can store in your permanent settings and will not have to change it again

Marco that is the correct default setup for harmony.

Okay we will go to the other area that needs to be set..

SONG MODE- MENU- PREFERENCES- This should then present a screen where you can set the harmony track.

Now, from memory (and its been a while since I used default settings!!) the last entry, HARMONY TRACK is by default set to GLOBAL.
This needs to be changed to the channel/track number of the harmony data.

In your case, assuming it is still the tune 1000 song, set this to channel 5.

Ensure the harmony button on the front panel is lit, and it should then produce harmony notes when you sing through the mic when the notes play on the track.

The GLOBAL setting is used when you want to create/play your own harmony ntoes from LIVE play on the keyboard, from the chord scanning area you select whislt playing a midi file.

In STYLE MODE this is done automatically.

Dennis

Sorry, just an addition to the above..If you press the dropdown menu (top right of screen) you can save this a sthe global song play setup. If you dont, and you dont create a songbook entry (whihc overides these settings) it will revert back to the default after you turn the PA off.

Dennis

May I suggest if you are new to the pa800 you go to:- http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/support/tutorials.html?en
where there is a video tutorial.
I have viewed it and have found it helpful

Cousin ken

[This message has been edited by Caragabal (edited 07-17-2008).]

Thanks Ken .

I also suggested that in another thread, so hopefully we can drag Marco over there

Marco, it really is the place to go, all your questions have probably already been answered!!
Cheers
Dennis

Fran's right. I never let a midi file trigger harmonies. That's the most fun I have all night is singing like the Four Freshman!

I have to do it myself, or I feel lazy.

A different approach to utilizing the vocal harmonizer with smf:

Set up your midi file to a performance, using the split mode in arranger play. When you play the correct chords (I simply mute the LH), you can add harmony ANY TIME you want in the song. You can use whatever RH you want also - works like a charm. You don't have to use the stock harmonies provided by someone else.

A different approach to utilizing the vocal harmonizer with smf:

Set up your midi file to a performance, using the split mode in arranger play. When you play the correct chords (I simply mute the LH), you can add harmony ANY TIME you want in the song. You can use whatever RH you want also - works like a charm. You don't have to use the stock harmonies provided by someone else.

Also...

If you decided to do a medley (which I do), you can set these songs up in the jukebox under themes (Elvis, Roy, etc) and they will play in succession. It's easy to tab back to lyrics, performance setups, etc, which are right on the screen - very cool feature.

Zuki, we heard you the first time...

Well Fran,

It was buried in another thread and this is a new fellow trying to get ideas - sorry it wasn't related to Roland.

A little tired and grumpy from all that window shopping yesterday?

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 07-18-2008).]

Jckeeys and Dennis, thank you.

I have followed your instructions, here what I did:

Jckeeyes, you said “go into menu/Midi settings (no global).
The only “Midi” page I have found in the PA 800 is on MENU - GLOBAL: Midi, but in that page I have not found any Harmonizer button.
I then found a “Midi Set Up” on SONG PLAY - SEQ1:PREFERENCES. In that page the Midi set up is set on Default (other options are master keyboard, squencer 1, 2, Accordion 1,2,3 and Extern. Seq.) I don't think I have identified the page you suggested yet...

Dennis, I followed your instructions and went to Song mode - menu - preferences and on the page SONG PLAY-SEQ1:Preferences on the Harmony button I selected Seq 1 Track 5, I have actually already done this before. Question: should I select Seq 1+2 Track 5? (it seems that in that way both seq would make work the harmonizer on track 5)

At this time the harmonizer still is not playing the correct notes when I play an Tune 1000 SMF. But I have faith :-)

Thank you for the tutorials suggestion, I am studying them right now...

Dennis, good morning,

I have made a search for "EXTERNAL MIDI SET UP GUIDE" on the Korg forum but I cannot find it... can you maybe send me the link?

thank you

Marco

Sorry Fran,

I know what you meant now. I didn't see my double post

BTW, I can't get tune 1000 harmonies to work on T5 either???

Hi Marco,

Yes you can set it for Player 1, 2 OR 1+2 which siimply means all your MIDI is the same for both players. I have a couple of MIDI setups which vary for either player so it gives me an instant new set of MIDI parameters. More so for what I am playing on the upper three tracks. Here is the link you asked for.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36187

Marco I strongly suggest you get registered and onto the Korg forums, as SZ is more for general arranger stuff. You could post in the Korg section on SZ, but it's rather, well lets just say, less inhabited than this one

Cheers
Dennis

Marco,
Just an addendum... Not ALL Tune 1000 songs have harmonies. Also, if you have got the files from someone else ( or from the NET), they MAY have tweaked them and put that data onto another channel. Its a bit difficult for me without actually seeing the file/s in question.

But these are things you need to be aware of.

Also check out Zuki's posts above, as those methods he described are also very good for getting the harmonies you want.

Cheers
Dennis