new pieces added !!

http://music-tyros.com/

Just click on them and hear the fantastic sound.


[This message has been edited by kla4 (edited 07-15-2008).]

http://www.yamahapkowner.com/index.php

I'm not bashing any other manufactuers but I think this speaks very well to a point Diki has often alluded to.....the importance of having a quality demo. Without it, you're never going to be able to compete with the big boys, no matter how technologically advanced your product is. I think this is a big reason Yamaha has been so successful despite some technological and 'feature' issues and the fact that they rarely listen to their users. Demos like this are going to sell a lot of Tyros 3's (by convincing buyers that they too, can sound just like the demo......though they never do).

chas

Seems they removed some lkeys... only 49 left..

Sorry to say, but for me, that second demo is awful, and the worst I have heard of that type of music for a long time.

However as the perfect keyboard has yet to be built, you will always get a few dodgy sounds, but most will probably be fine

Bill

Being somewhat of a fan of Irish folk and post-folk music, all I can say is, I hope that awful finger-flutter 'tremolo' on the Uilleann Pipes sound is defeat-able... Just like vibrato on a voice, or sax, or anything else, it is NOT applied to every single note, only at specific points. This one had it delayed on every note. Awful...

I think the Uilleann Pipes on my G70 are better, at least...

Here we go again its Tyros 3 bashing time & it hasn't even been released......nit pick away!
I love it......can't wait till all the puzzle pieces are released then we'll be at a fever pitch at each others throat.Why can't we just embrace new technology instead of trying to knock the top dog all the time?

This whole puzzle hype is a bit kiddish to me. It's one thing to hype a totally new look, but come on, the same old interface again?

Not all of us embrace technology BEFORE it has proved to be the top dog (whatever that means!) like you, Donny....

If anything, surely this year should have proved to you that you don't have the slightest ability to predict what is going to suit you best until you have bought it and played it for yourself? You certainly went through enough of them before settling for an incremental upgrade over what you started out with...

So far, all I hear is a better piano, and an inferior Irish Bagpipe. Wow! You can tell so much from so little!

Of course, YOU will love it, as you have already proved that Yamaha arrangers are the only thing you are capable of settling down with for any length of time, but for the rest of us that have already decided that Yamaha does not have the sound, or form factor that we need, this new one will have to work a little harder for us than you to get us to go all doe-eyed about it...

So far... one strike, one ball. But we're at the top of the first. You want to call the game already?

It's the middle pieces that will reveal the exciting parts

well we know what T2 has so I doubt it will be any lesser...yes I tried a few more then most & Im lucky I can.....each had their strong points, some even were better then what I now have feature wise only....they just couldnt hold my attention in the sound & style dept where it counts for me...
But I'm always open to change down the road for sure......Diki thank you so much for your concern

Diki, I agree that vibrato was WAY over the top and the constant use on every note really took away from the "realism" IMO. The piano sounds nice on the second one though (I still personally prefer the piano on the G-70 though)...

This brings up something interesting Diki..., this is a problem I've had with Yamaha's signature voices for a while now. These signature voices sound great, but so many have FIXED LFO'S. The voice sounds good, but how boring a solo gets when EVERY note modulates at the exact same time! One of my favorite Yamaha voices is the Sweet Saprano.., the pure sound itself is freakin beautiful (shoot me now.., but I'm still a Kenny-G fan) BUT, and a BIG BUT.., that sound has a crescendo and modulates at the exact same place on every single note. These modulation settings are fixed within the voices and that IMO really takes away from a convincing performance, and takes a chunk of the performance aspect and lets the keyboard make the decision for the player. A sax player does not use a crescendo and modulate at the same place and time on every note. I wish Yamaha would stop making these voices this way.

"Sounds like the new Super Articulation2 bagpipe! No kidding! This is rumored to have been included in the new SA2 voices and now we can hear it. I am not sure we will get much use from this voice.

I also think what you are hearing is one of the new Movie/Film styles. There are said to be two new movie/film styles, one of them sounding like something from Gladiator. I will bet that is what you hear in the bagpipe piece.

Tom G."

Sorry, I have to agree with Squeak,
the bagpipe sounds like the player has Parkinson's desease.

Well, I have heard that the head sound designer, who was responsible for all signature sounds in the past, has left Yamaha several months ago. Possibly the reason?

From what I was able to tell, I think the finger vibrato is controllable. For instance, the low D didnt have any. And in the B section, there is a G note where it sounds like the vibrato starts, and then actually stops before the next F note. Also, there is a B-flat somewhere in the song that has no vibrato. I think the demo maker was just over-emphasizing the vibrato, hopefully; but that is what my ears were telling me anyway.

http://www.yamahapkowner.com/?p=470

I also note a new Vocal Pad sound that sounds pretty good. The strings are as sweet (no pun intended) as ever. Anyone here a difference in the drums?

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

hmmm, it looks like they can fit another 50 keys between those pieces - LOL

------------------
Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

I hope they are smart enough this time to use the darn aftertouch!
Many effects including and especially vibrato SHOULD be controllable from aftertouch. NOT included in the sample. When it is in the sample you can't turn it off AND t rarely is correctly done (vary's too much from note to note). Don't include any vibrato in the darn samples... I want control of it as I play.

Other things should be controlled by velocity and/or aftertouch. Switches... Nah!

My T2 has some of this screwed up and so does my PA2... can't these guys get this right... it's not rocket science!

Lee

I get the same piano/strings sounds on both phase 1 and phase 2 ?????
t.

Lee..., I couldn't agree with you more. Vibrato and modulation should be left up to the "person playing the keyboard". It's one thing to have a voice that self modulates, but to then have that modulation in the sample itself is even worse. I don't want the keyboard telling me where the voice should modulate. last time I checked there was a wheel or joystick that did this.., or aftertouch.

Strange ... using Mozilla Firefox, I only see the pieces for Phase 1 ... and when I click on the 'audio' icon on the T 3 site, it shows Phase 1 followed by Phase 2, but clicking on Phase 2 only gives me the Phase 1 sounds ...
Using Internet Explorer, I see the additional pieces for phase 2 and when I click on the audio icon, Phase 2 is listed before Phase 1 ... I click on Phase 2 and I hear the bagpipes ... I like REAL bagpipes, but did not care for the sample ...
t.

Hi All
Are you sure the vibrato cant be transferred to after touch, as all Wersi instruments built since 1984 (The first digital versions) have the vibrato built into the voice, but when you activate after touch it automatically gets transferred to player control.
I would check on this, as I find it most unusual that manufactures would not allow the vibrato to be transferred. (Also check in settings as there may be various options available for after touch control)
Enjoy whatever instrument you play

Bill

It would be nice if you could control it with an Aftertouch effect so the user could enable it only when needed. It sounds like it is built into the sample though because you'll notice when he holds the key down for a certain length of time it "always" triggers the effect, and unfortunately Yamaha arrangers are notorious for their mediocre editing capability which probably means there would be no way to remove it - through editing the voice; hence users will most likely be stuck with it and their only other course of action would be to release the key "before" it kicks in and that could be problematic if you needed to hold the key down longer for some reason.



Hopefully he got picked up by Roland and company and they will pay him what he's worth.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-16-2008).]

Very interesting. It has more rounded edges which is a plus, but somehow it just doesn't have that "high-end" look to me. The styling and design is something you'd see maybe on like a mid-range keyboard not a $4,500 one.

Best,
Mike

Probably plastic again too I would assume.

Best,
Mike

No you can not alter the vibrato IF it is in the sample. No matter which keyboard. If it is in the sample you get what you get. And unfortunately the vibrato will more than likely vary by note or at least you will have a different speed and/or depth. Even if there is a board that does allow you to eliminate the vibrato in the sample ( some one mentioned is Wersi can do this??? HOW?) the vibrato will vary by note IF it was sampled with the sound as played by the performer.

Nothing worse than playing a slow piece... holding notes of course and BANG...vibrato is different. Ruins the performane.

No board should leave the factory with this problem.

Also, the other biggy is when you are playing and all of a sudden you hit a key or range of keys that sound different (tone wise). Ruins the performance for me. This is just very sloppy sound engineering work.

Also, if they try to s t r e t c h the multisamples across too many keys the sound starts to get crappy in some ways.

With todays technology and less expensive RAM... the TOFL arrangers should not have any of this.

By the way the PRO Korg M3 also has these problems, I had one and returned it a week later.

Kurzweil boards do not have these problems.
At least the K2600X I once owned and the PC3 I have now, don't.
They care about each sound and know how to do it right. Unfortunately they don't build arrangers.

Here's hoping T3 will not have any of these problems? It's the quality sound above all were after isn't it?

Lee

People were complaining about sharp corners on T2...so a rounded look would make sense....in fact my T2 ripped thru my Gator bag & its quality made for a soft case.

One of the buttons on the right-hand side (or 1st piece) changes position when the picture completes.

Could be a "fluke".

-mike

All I have to say is Yamaha needs to get a clue and start building their bloody pro arrangers better. When I played the Tyros II, I was impressed with the sounds, styles, ect..., but geez I could not get past that cheap plastic body and cheap buttons. The key action was like butter though. There's no excuse for a $3,500 pro arranger to be built so cheaply.

I highly doubt Yamaha will change the construction quality of the Tyros III. People complained about it on the first model, they didn't listen, and most likely will build the new model with the same cheapness.

I know I'll take heat from T2 owners, but if you want to see what I'm talking about.., put your hands on a Yamaha Motif and compare the quality there.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-17-2008).]

What strikes me as daft is that, if you look at it, there is enough wasted space, particularly at the top end, to put in those extra keys so many so desperately want, without altering the overall size...

For a 61, it sure is big

61 keys are fine for me.....whats under all that space is the question?...
I love the new design for sure. Should be lightweight too yeah!

as far as the NEW sliders & the omission of the original display knobs underneath, Hmmmmmm? what do they actually control...?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-16-2008).]

It sure better not be for a CDR or HD (or a floppy )...

All you really need is a few USB2 ports, nowadays, and you should be set. A decent sized RAMDisk on board, and USB2 master capability for a thumb drive or two should be all you need on a gig. The rest is usually best dealt with on your computer, at home, IMO.

Who is going to have a $4000 arranger and NOT at least a laptop?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 07-16-2008).]

The demo does sound very polished and pretty. It is curious, I have never heard that kind of fast vibrato on the bagpipe either.

Beakybird

Beaky, that's not strictly a vibrato, but more of a tremolo, done only on the Irish Bagpipe (or Uilleann Pipes), not the Scottish ones, in general, and is done by fluttering your fingers over open lower holes on the chanter.

But it is definitely a sound that is not employed to every note in a phrase, but picked and chosen carefully, like a good use of the Leslie... (and if some notes require most of your fingers, you have none to spare for the flutter). Absolutely NEVER on just about every note, like the Yamaha demo.

Check out some early music by the Chieftains, for some pretty authentic playing (amongst many others )

Hi Leeboy
Additional sample editing features on OAS 6, Note the vibrato controls at the bottom.
http://www.4shared.com/file/55504443/6ee19930/Sound_Edit.html

Regards

Bill

In principle Bill that's how modulation can be added to Yamaha voices too. But it's ADDED by oscillators on top of the wave sample.

If say vibrato is already recorded into the sample we can't reach in and subtract it- at least not with the usual editing facilities supplied.

John

If the vibrato is part of the raw sample you can't change it. Now if the vibrato was simply applied by the makers use of the internal LFO settings, then you can go into patch edit and adjust this. Over the years I've noticed that (primarily on arrangers by all the makers) patches are being produced with fixed LFO's on acoustic instruments. My only assumption is that the keyboard makers go on their own assumption that the average arranger player doesn't use patch editing on their keyboards. I think that's true to a certain point.., as arrangers have always been known for that "out of box" sound. I'm sure many players here don't go too deep into patch editing on their arrangers too, but loading a keyboard with samples that have fixed LFO's is a bit too much. I can understand if the average arranger player may not go in and twist up a patch beyond all reason, but I'm quite sure many arranger players have a basic understand of adjusting the LFO or vibrato setting on patches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFzkWsMrNfk

As it happens the Ty2 (and possibly Ty1 and others) have a "Hichiriki" in the GM/XG section that sounds very close to the basic voice used here. It has no inherent vibrato.
With DSP added to provide ambience, vibrato on demand with after touch and portamento on demand with a pedal it can be made to sound very close to the demo.
John

This has to be the least sound I would ever use on my Keyboard...why all the hoopla?

Anyway, if this is a Super Articulation bagpipe voice, the tremelo would be initiated by a footswitch, just like fret noise is made with many of the S.A. guitars and inhaling breath sounds are made with many S.A. saxes and wind instruments. So if you don't like the tremelo on the bagpipe, you can program a footswitch for some other effect to make it sound realistic, like wah wah or to add distortion.

Beakybird

However it works, it'll require a fair bit of special knowledge and effort on the part of the player for it to sound authentic.

Can't help feeling it's a niche market rather than a general home arranger market sound.

John

Anybody remember (or ever heard of) Rufus Harley. He is (or was) from the Philly area. I met him once or twice. Interesting guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_Harley

chas

Guess you don't have St. Patrick's Day as a big deal in NJ, Donny?

It's a great sound to use on slow ballads if you have the technique down, as Celine Dion and the Titanic soundtrack have shown, I use it myself on a Sting song...

Admittedly, it won't fit in on a doo-wop song, but there ARE other forms of music than big-band and oldies, you know...

I have an album with Rufus Harley and Georges Arvanitas Trio. Kind of novelty in my estimation. Interesting for what it is.

Hi John
I see your point, but in the case of Wersi OAS instruments up to OAS 6, (OAS 7 is totally a different format using a combination of sampling and Sound Modelling) if it isn’t in the sample then you can’t edit it.
As an example:
Let’s say the attack of the Piano is 20ms, then while the editor can increase the attack, it can’t decrease the attack beyond 20ms as this information is not contained in the voice/sample.
The same applies to modulation, if it is not contained within the voice/sample, then it cannot be added or modified.
Samples themselves come in many forms, some sample the whole instrument and some in sections, e.g. the sound is sampled separately from the modulation and the 2 are combined at a later stage. (Hence the modulation becomes editable separately from the sound)
There are many ways to sample, and just because you can’t edit something on one type of sample, doesn’t mean that it can’t be altered on other types of sample.
In the end it all comes down to the designer who has to provide what the musician wants.

Regards

Bill

The thing is, Bill, if the sample is sampled with vibrato on it, that's it... you can't take it off. Let's not get confused with sounds sampled 'straight', and then an LFO is used to make the vibrato (which you CAN edit).

Real instruments' vibratos are FAR more complex than a simple LFO on the pitch. Volume, timbre AND phase are ALL modulated in a 'real' vibrato, much of it under physical control of the player. It is different from player to player (you can often tell who you are listening to solely by the way they use their vibrato), and from song to song (vibrato is often altered depending on tempo).

But sampling them has it's Achilles heel... First of all, if you don't sample each and every note separately, they speed up when the sample is transposed (or slow down), you can't control when they come in, and this changes as it is transposed, too, and you can do nothing about the depth and speed. This is all made less important if you have a GIGA sized set of samples, but on the regular ROM of most arrangers, there's just not enough space for all that. Would that you COULD take sampled vibrato off when needed, but it's just not doable.

I prefer samples without vibrato, most of the time, and use a pitch strip to induce a real vibrato (one that isn't mechanically regular, like an LFO) for the best sound, if I can. But I LOVE vibrato'd samples as layers for straight ones (or two different vibrato'd samples together). It gives a great thick sound..

The T3 picture looks authentic, but is absolutely isn't.
My dealer saw/played the T3 an he tells me the pic is NOT the Tyros 3

The picture on page 1 of this thread isn't authentic, it's a "fluke".

For explanation see the penultimate post on this page:
http://www.yamahapkowner.com/forum/index.php?topic=13546.75

John

http://flukeworld.com/

Fields of Barley ?
t.

Fields of Gold...

Here is a link of a real bagpipe player using that type of vibrato.
http://www.yamahapkowner.com/?p=470


I think Yamaha knows what they are doing.

Beakybird

Ooooooooooooops ... my bad ...

t.

Wow I can tell everyone is so excited about the Tyros 3......there's an underlying curiosity inside...can you feel it?
And now Im hearing the T3 will have 8 OTS buttons & massive size styles? Wonder if they will work in the T1/T2? If not that will be a good way to make people buy the T3.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-20-2008).]

Everybody would be excited if a new Casio arranger hit the streets...

Sure beats talking about (or, Heaven forbid! actually LISTENING to any) music, don't it!

Hey guys!

I saw the image you posted on the first page here.

Here is an updated one from phase 3.


http://www.flukeworld.com/Yamaha-Tyros-3-phase-3.gif

I couldn't get the image to show up here... sorry for the constant editing of this post.

If you want to see a comparison between the Tyros 2 and Tyros 3 go to my webpage - there is an image with the both ontop of each others.
http://www.flukeworld.com/

[This message has been edited by Fluke73 (edited 07-28-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Fluke73 (edited 07-28-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Fluke73 (edited 07-28-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Fluke73 (edited 07-28-2008).]

Yamaha again added some new pieces & audio-sample.

I wonder if these sliders are of a sturdy construction like Ketron has and have NO Wiggle in them?
I also would assume they play a dual purpose controlling organs besides Volume & different Perimeter levels in real time too? Am I hearing NEW Drums also in this latest reveal? Also as yu can see the full pic above doesn't have the little buttons above the sliders



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-19-2008).]

Guys:

Price of new T2 after spending 70 hours cruising the net for discounts: $4200.00

Cost to replace wife’s front teeth that fell out because you postponed her dental work to save for the T3: $3,000.00

Price of newest video game to appease your 18-year old kid who accused YOU of never growing up: $500.00

Marriage counselor fees resulting from your crazed obsession with new keyboard: $1800.00

Raw unbridled excitement of laying in bed every night just knowing that you now OWN the T3’s “extreme articulation” bagpipe voice with non-changeable vibrato and that neat clarinet patch: PRICELESS!!!!!!


HA HA HA.

Randy

Hi Everyone!
Could anybody tell me, Do you hear a REAL difference in sound between the Tyros2 Drums and the one ones? (if any...)
I´m a Tyros2 owner and I think the drums are the weakest part of this keyboard. Hoping for an improvment in this department but until now I think is hopeless. The new sounds also didn´t ring my bell...
Anybody knows when will be the Audya available in Europe?
Thanks!!

Hey guys!
Here's my usual fake:


http://www.flukeworld.com/Yamaha-Tyros-3-phase-5.gif



For a comparison with the Tyros 2:
click here

It's one of the reasons my Tyros and I parted company within weeks and I subsequently went back to Roland. I just didn't have confidence in the the Tyros surviving the rigours of regular gigging. (I couldn't adapt to the Yamaha user interface either, but it was the keyboard's general sense of fragility that sealed its fate).

In fairness, I've no doubt they're fine for home use only, which I guess is the worst 99% of them will ever have to contend with.

And the next piece is added...

Im in the same boat as you....

Wow. Even though in *@#*^$# Youtube-mono... Just wow.

Not only the flawless singer, but also the way this guy played the pipes. It is impossible to ever capture that in any keyboard, I'm convinced.

Thanks for posting the link! I watched the video three times and even looked up the lyrics :-)

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl