Stupid stereo question

Is there any dis/advantage to plugging in the left and right 'outs' of a keyboard into a mono amp. Specifically, does it help or hurt the sound if I put my E-60 into my Mackie 808s PA, either in two separate channels or into channel 8, where there are R/L inputs? I use the Mackie as a mains & monitor amp, not as a stereo mains.

BTW, I think I like my e60 even better than the g70. I only wish it had the harmonizer section. Getting around the keyboard is a lot easier. There are less onboard styles, but they are on the money, very little trash.

Cassp... Mono is mono. Whether the channels are summed in the keyboard, or in the mixer SHOULD make no difference. If the keyboard has inferior electronics (summing buss prone to distortion) then maybe it would be better at the mixer, but in your E60's case, I wouldn't worry.

Plus, when using the mono out, you make sure that any EQ applied at the mixer is identical on both L & R, which if you use two channels of the mixer, you can't guarantee that. Any phase canceling problems (you probably already noticed the main piano sounds a little different in mono than it does in stereo) will be the same if the summing is internal or external, as well.

Save yourself a cable (and potentially, halve your chances of a bad one - tough to track down if you monitor in mono) and just use the mono out....

I agree with Diki. It is simply easier and less error prone to just use the mono output from the keyboard. I do that myself with the Motif 6 I use with a live band.

Thanks, guys. I thought I was wrong, but I made a mistake.

Ive always noticed a "FULLER" sound using TWO cables L/R versus One........I would try both ways and use your ears to determine what sounds better to you.

Try it.

btw ....Cass what are your first impressions of the Roland E60 so far?

Donny, I have tried one and two cables, and I really don't think I hear a difference. I'll try again.

As for the E-60, Roland is making a big mistake by not promoting this arranger (and their others) better. Having owned a G70, I find the E-60 OS so simple to navigate. It seems that some of the menu tasks are simplified, which for me and probably many players is a welcome step. As a medium-priced board with 76 keys, this is one impressive instrument.

I hesitantly bought the G70 because of all its features, but overlooked two important things. The darn thing is heavy and I really wasn't sold on the drawbar section. Eventually, I sold it for the same reasons. The E-60, on the other hand has neither feature. It's 28 lbs. and very easy to carry and move around. The drawbar (VK) section is missing, but the organ patches that are available are more than acceptable; some are downright good.

There are only two features that I feel I can criticize at this time; volume and lack of harmonizer. I'm a little disappointed in the onboard speaker volume, but that's a minor issue, as I will mostly be playing thru an amp. The other criticism is the global complaint - WHERE'S THE HARMONIZER? The Roland harmonizer is not only great, it's inspiring IMHO. An E-65 with a harmonizer might be the only keyboard that would coax me to sell this baby - it's a real keeper.

I've bought and sold about 7-8 keyboards in the last year. Now, with the E-60 and XK-1 I feel I have a near-perfect setup. The two are very simple to play together; the closest to a two-manual-in-one keyboard setup I've come across yet. I am very glad and satisfied with the E-60. It is not a PA800 or maybe even an S900 when you compare features (maybe it should be compared to a PA500 or a S700), BUT the 76 note feature is one big plus for me. For more features you can get an E-80 or G-70, but then you don't get - lower price, lighter weight or 76 notes. I like it - a lot!


[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 01-31-2008).]

Yeah, Cass !! That's great to hear you're happy with the E60, certainly sounds like it's the board for you!! Good luck with it.

Because Yamaha stubbornly wish to keep a 76 note arranger off their product list, I have been recommending the E-60 to some clients who desire the larger and roomier keybed.

I was basing it on my own experience, but now I have Cassp and Fran's reviews to support the recommendation.

I liked the organs in the E-60 a lot, as well as the styles...and I was really surprised at it's light weight considering it has 76 keys AND speakers.

If you don't need all the "extras" in the G70...and a lot of people won't, the E-60 is a bargain.

I suspect the next generation (E-65?) will have a harmonizer...maybe a less extensive/programmable one than the G70's in order to keep the cost down...just a guess.

Glad you're having fun Cassp...the XK-1 and the E-60 sound like a great combination.

Ian

I promised myself I was going to be laid back on this keyboard, but there are a few more things I'd like to add without editing my original reply.
* The keyboard is relatively thinner in width and height than the TOTL arrangers nowadays. It fits nicely on a stand and permits me to stack the XK-1 closer to it, giving me a better two-manual feel.
* The SMF Cover features remains one of my favorite features. Sometimes I change the sound of a file based on the type of audience or the mood I wish to achieve. And if you don't find something you really like, it at least gives you ideas of what you might want to edit.
* The key feel is not the same as the G70, but it is good, comfortable and very easy to get used to.
* I don't think the piano sample is the same as the G70, but again it is very good.
*I'm still looking for a convenient way to have my main SMF library always available and an additional list of songs (100's) on reserve if ever needed. I've reverted to using two CF cards; it works.
* Because I've already mentioned this twice, it should be obvious that this is an excellent keyboard for guys who play SMFs. I guess the other E's and G70 are excellent too.
* Lastly for now, the G70 and E80 styles seem to transfer into the E-60 seemlessly. That makes up for the lesser number of styles onboard. But having said that, some of the onboard styles are unique and very good.

The Yamahas I've played with the Bose L1 most definitely sound better to me when sends from the left and right outputs are used, rather than using a single mono cable. Couldn't tell much difference with Ketron, Roland or Korg.
DonM

Don,

I've had several clients with 3K and S900 that tried Bose L1 and complained about the Live! Grand Piano being "thin".

Not sure if they used two cables to provide left and right...probably not.

Thanks for the tip...I'll pass it on.

Ian

Its a simple test.....

Plug Two in L/R....Listen.......

Take one out Listen

no more mystery regarding fullness.....


as far as Phase, or Thin Piano sounds or any others that's a whole different story of Stereo vs Mono etc.

There is one VERY important point when doing the 'one cable, two cables' thing...

Humans have remarkably different experiences of exactly the same sound when it it at surprisingly little different volume. You may not even consciously notice a volume difference, but even as little as .5db (or less!) can change your perception of a sound.

Two cables into two channels gives you an increase in gain, unless you are clinical in making sure the final output compares IDENTICALLY to the 'one cable, one channel' attempt. And sadly, few mixer's output meters provide that resolution.

As the trend towards louder and louder CD's over the last few years have shown us, even the record companies are aware of the 'louder just sounds better' factor. When you mix, master, or just gain stage your rigs, you have to be VERY aware of this phenomenon.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-31-2008).]

Hi Cassp

I'm glad to hear you're liking and getting along so well with your new E60. The reasons you like it are tempting.

I'm curious as to your comparison between the PSR3000 and the E60, minus the number of keys of course.

Scott

I'm not sure how the mono output of the E60 is configured. However, with the PSR and T1 series of keyboard, Yamaha's mono output is not a true combined, or summed mono. Instead, it's a psuedo mono that seems to loose some of the information from the unused channel. All it takes is one glance at the wiring diagram and you can see how the keyboard's output is routed when using mono V/S stero. When fired through two separate inputs, the difference in Yamaha's sound quality is substantial.

Good luck with the E60--it's a good keyboard.

Gary

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