Just been asked by Korg to a sit down for suggestions on arrangers

Just got off the phone with my Rep, apparantley I have sold a pretty good amount of PA800s that they want me to go to Korg's Headquarters in New York for training and discussions on improvments and other suggestions for current and upcoming arrangers.

Any thing i should ask?

Hi Frankiev
Congratulations on being chosen. As a relatively new dealer, you are doing a bang up business for Korg. Of course, the great line doesn't hurt.

The only thing I can think of is the lack of additional styles, like Christmas. I know one can make their own, but some are not so inclined.

BTW I saw your picture and you look like a nice guy. That coupled with the good comments I've seen, indicates you will be much larger soon.

Bernie

Thanks for the kind words.

That was one of my suggestions of certain lacking styles in the Korg line.

Let's see if they actually listen, I think they will

I know styles change and even Roland and Yamaha try to make their arrangers look cutting edge, BUT I would prefer keyboard styling that was more professional looking than showy. Blue is OK, so is silver or black, even that deep cherry Korg had on the Karma, but to mix colors begs for a sense of fashion, which I don't think should be part of the arranger. FWIW.

Angular lines as opposed to bubbles and big rounded edges.

Ask Korg to address the audio input problem and the loss of one of the 4 effect blocks while using the harmonizer....Also improve the key touch..it should be better in this price range...maybe then I will take another look at the PA800..

Way to go Frank, congratulations. Let's see wasn't there a band named Frankie goes to........never mind that was Hollywood not New York. I agree with Bernie maybe a few more Christmas styles, but then again I found work arounds and other styles that work for Christmas.

You MIGHT suggest they take a look at re-voicing ALL their styles to avoid the 'jumpy fill' problem, much discussed...

In fact, upping the fills from a meager three might be the main thing to get them above the competition...

Oh, and while you are at it, how about them bringing back the Chord Sequencer they USED to have in the i-series, or even better, take a look at how Roland implemented it...

And how about a Karma arpeggiator?

How about a buy one get one free promotion..

Pa800 is perfect nuff said.

yes the the chord seq, should be back ,benno

Replace the bender/mod lever with pitch and mod wheels.

Frank,

Don't forget to stop in Manhattan and we can do lunch!! Korg is in Melville Long Island I think, so it's out of the way of the city.

Please suggest to them to somehow link the Karma functionality to the Style Maker so that you can let the keyboard dynamically create styles on the fly and then tweak them during a live performance; that would be killer!!!



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Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland SPD-S.

Oh Frank,
How fortunate thou art - well you earned it obviously.
Please, please ask the Korg people to offer an arranger module based on PA tech - a PA800M or PA2XProM would be sooo sweet.
Ciao,
Jerry

1.fix the fill problem.add more fills,2 in not enough.Fill problem is one of the 2 problems that keep korg beaten by yammy.

2.Don't over do styles .Keep it clean and simple so that you can sing/play over it without having to mute tracks.

3.Need more Western good 8 beats,16s,rumba type latin beats and good simple dance beats.Again listen to a S900(take their less is more approach) and you can do better.BUT again Don't over do it(which seems to be Korg problem).Ehnics beats are good but Korg should wonder why in US most arranger only players prefer Yammy than Korg (unlike in mid east and EU).Yes ,need SIMPLE good 8 beats that fits most songs.

4.Chord sequencer

5.Maybe Yammy type arranger drum track sychronizing with SMF play(that'll fix all poorly written /incorrected mapped drum track SMFs).

6.keep the bender, put arpgtr like Tritons and real time knob controls (even $200 yammy E403 has it).

7.Improve Acoustic guitar (also electric),more pure strings(less synthy),and better EFX routing.


Hardware and overall sound ,feature wise Korg is hard to beat.BUT suffers in arranger play(where Yammy shines)Take good examples and beat them.


Once your arrnger play is fixed,you'll sell more and 3rd party support will follow.

i was going to post some suggestion, but jamman put it just right!

+1 about number of fills and "jumpy" transitions.

If Korg want to create the ultimate arranger workstation please tell them to have the same effects set up as they have on the triton extreme with inedpendant routing . the group block effects on the pa series is limiting for work as a production tool.

funny how this is turning into the some old wish list scenario.....with everyone with their own personal wish FOR THEM.....what one needs & wants the next never uses or even thinks about. I for one love the PA800 as is FOR MY NEEDS...I hear no fill problems when Im playing & there's more then enough features For My Needs. Look what you had just a few years ago & look what you have now with these amazing instruments.......

Hey, a fellow Triton owner! I agree with you on the block effects of the Triton, but I think we should aim higher and ask for the Oasys effects processer!!! How do you like your TE? Which model do you have 61, 76, 88?

I currently have my TE76 on Ebay and purchased the new M373. I can't wait for the new one.

Regards,
Al





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Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland SPD-S.

Remember the more you ask for the more it costs.....then everyone will complain about the price.

Bring the prices down.

Frank,
FWIW, I think Korg have got it about right for a pro arranger in the PA2x/PA800 maybe just add the ability to read word files instead of just text, might make a bit of difference to the lyrics function, or even the ability to add bmp's as the Rolands do. But overall its the best one out there, and I have played them all to some degree, except the s900, but the yammies' are all so, bland and lifeless I didn't bother.

Another suggestion is that Korg add some arranger functionality to the M3, now THAT would make for a killer board, which would truly be "cross-platform".
Dennis

Good suggestions Dennis

hahahahahhahahahah yeah right

My biggest complaint with PA800 is the main volumne control is combined with right hand volumne.. I hate that ...

I would love to see a shorter endings, like the "to end" button on the SD1..( a feature I can't like with out ! )

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Every time... whatever Donny has is perfect, needs no improvement, blah blah blah...

Of course, as soon as ANY of our suggested improvements get implemented, he'll trade the PA800 in a flash, and get the next model (or jump manufacturers completely!).

Somehow, perfection seems to wear off, slowly, eh Donny?

You are missing an obvious opportunity to help direct the development of your current favorite. An audience with Korg R&D themselves, no less. But you are still playing 'defender' games, as if this thread is just another chewing the fat between members. THIS one goes directly to Korg (via frankieve).

Are you SURE you can't come up with ANYTHING to improve...?

diki, it works FOR ME when it don't I dump it....stop dreamin, play the Kb and enjoy & make money, its just a freakin tool of the trade nothing more nothing less...wake up.

I agree with Donny ... it's a wonderful keyboard. I would like to have it as a module so I can use it with various controllers. I now have wireless midi and I would like to move away from the board for certain tunes. Yeah! gimme a PA800M - Please!
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry dont be surprised with success of the Pa series units a Module could be around the corner for sure.....accordion players will love it!

Hi,
I think I would like an additional 2 fills, I rather liked the yamaha system.

I'd like some more ballad styles, especially piano ballads, I'm not overly fussed about the onboard ones.
Additional commercial style disks in general would be great.
Can't really complain though, to me the PA800 is brilliant.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Dan,
The PA2x/PA800 does. It now has an ending 3 button which does just that.
Dennis

I understand some people's frustration with the way the FX are used (block) but I hope no-one is complaining about the FX themselves.

They are SO diverse, realistic and above all editable to an AMAZING degree.

I'm still finding new stuff I can do with them!

No doubt Hellboy, the Korg efx are up with the best alright.

I'd would love to be able "to end" a midi sequence in real time ....

LOL, you can Dan...just push the stop button

I don't know why this would surprise you, Diki, given all the historical precedents. While the entire board is trying to come up with constructive suggestions for functional and innovative improvements, you've got one guy proclaiming it "perfect". Strange, coming from someone who can't even settle on a keyboard BENCH.

In an age where advancements in technology increase at an exponential rate almost daily, how can any product of technology EVER be considered perfect. We will probably never reach the limits of technology. More likely, what we WILL see is the limit of one's talent or the inability to see beyond one's own immediate environment (or the next day).

Sorry, Diki. No surprise here.

chas

No surprises, chas...

It's just that few of us EVER get the opportunity to get suggestions to the powers that be. Seems a pity to waste one...

Powers that be? what a joke!!.....its all about the money...they couldn't give a crap about the end owner.....they'll bait you along like they have been for years with refurbished updates, so called new features, & on & on.....if you think we'll make a big difference I feel sorry for y'all.....they want you to think that they already know whats coming to market years from now ....its a slow bleeding pattern that will never stop taking the consumer for a ride..enjoy.....Im glad Im in a restrain mode out of respect for Nigel or Id say something to a few that wouldn't be nice during the holidays.

An arranger module based on the PA1X2. But not as big as the Genesys xp.
The ability to connect to a computer and set-up the keyboard for live play, create styles and transfer files.

Hi there frankieve,
Congratulations. Please ask Korg if they are thinking about making their keyboards more accessible to blind and visually impaired musicians. I have tried bothte Korg Pa1X as well as te Korg Pa800, but I was just able to change styles and sounds. We want to do more like you sighted people. Especially for that price its not worth for just being able to change styles and sounds.
There could be a touch screen but also buttons. One thing that me and others have been waiting for is a keyboard with talking menus or simular. What do you think?
Thanks,
Christian

I think that is where computer connectivity would be helpful in this area. Yes talking menus would be grate, but perhaps the second best thing would be the ability to access all the programming and set-up features where the computer is connected to the keyboard (or module) and through a simple and non graphical interface, you can do most things from the computer rather than the keyboard itself. Almost like an editor. I know the Novation x-station can do this.

And while it would be helpful for blind persons, it would also make things more convenient for sighted persons as well. So Korg would make things better for all.

Well, maybe frankieve could pass along THOSE sentiments, Donny. And then, best of luck if you have a problem.

I realize you come from having had Yamaha's for quite a while (despite the last year or so of Ketron, then Korg, and are no doubt accustomed to their complete and total ignoring of the customer requests. Possibly this is where your attitude comes from. But I can assure you that, despite your bitterness towards them, the manufacturers (at least, other than Yamaha) DO listen, and DO respond. A LOT more frequently than you make out.

There are at least FOUR 'features' or improvements to features that have come from Roland listening just to me alone (nowhere else were any of the suggestions posted at the old G70 site), and MANY of our member requests were rolled into the last two MAJOR OS upgrades. They DO listen...

You might also take a look at the history of OS upgrades to the PA1X/PRO series over the last few years. Many bugs were squashed, many new features added, including the brand new Guitar Mode. So it seems fair to assume that when they ask for user feedback (even if only via a dealer), they actually DO want it.

Just because Yamaha turn a deaf ear to their users does NOT mean the rest are the same.

But, never mind. Remain bitter and defeated. Let OTHERS shape the direction of any OS improvements to YOUR arranger. Just, don't let us hear you complain when future OS upgrades don't address any of your issues (we know you SAY the PA800 is perfect - but you said that of every other arranger during the 'honeymoon' period!) that you will talk about after you buy your NEXT arranger (which will have probably at least SIX fills).

Despite HATING the industry that makes it

Just keep saying to yourself, Donny;

It's not a Yamaha any more....
It's not a Yamaha any more....
It's not a Yamaha any more....
It's not a Yamaha any more....

Frank, another suggestion for the Korg techies...
Can they please PLEASE allow you to enter scrolling markers with a text file.
At the moment you are still limited to page changing only via a footpedal or assignable button...Roland and Ketron can both scroll text files with the MIDI as its playing.

And I re-iterate on another one, get the opertaing system to recognise word .doc files, at least then the Korg will allow lyrics files to have spaces where you want, which would enable the placing of chord symbols ( ie C7, Bbmaj7, etc etc) above the lyric line.
At present if you do that in a text file, when its imported it simply squahes them all together at the start of the line .

As i said apart from that, i'ts probably a very complete keyboard.
Thanks
Dennis

Diki......

At this time the PA800 IS perfect FOR ME....
it does all I need to work & enjoy.....
why shouldn't I praise it as such FOR ME!

NO matter what anyone comes out with it will never be enough for ALL peoples needs....there will always be complaints....& wish lists.

what & how I use an arranger FOR ME might be very different from the next guy...what you think is the greatest thing that needs to be implemented may NOT be what myself or the next persons cup of tea....or ever uses like many of the useless features I don’t use but the next guy does.

as for the business practices of these companies, there's always an underlying motive & that's MONEY no way around it, believe what you want, it is, what it is plain & simple.

as for Yamaha I enjoyed my time with their units, made a living with them performing , But I always had to settle for workarounds for my needed features, made them work in some form navigationally, but with the Korg Pa800 almost all of the workarounds are now a thing of the past FOR ME....and that makes me happy, & that’s why its Perfect
FOR ME......
oh excuse me, did I say "FOR ME" again?

Oh, excuse me.... Did you say 'AT THIS TIME' again???

Wouldn't it be nice to say, in the future, that, because of the improvements to the OS that you helped guide, it is STILL perfect. 'for ME' 'at THIS time' too??

Rather than have to go out and give up your hard earned money to an industry that you loathe for yet another arranger?

And your main complaint? That improvements are incremental, at best...

One can imagine you listening to someone criticize YOUR act by going 'Well, he's only added a few more songs to his repertoire, rather than completely re-doing it from scratch every time... It's all about the money, and doing as little for it as possible!'

YOU know your audience wants to hear a lot of the same songs over and over. Must be tough to listen to someone criticize you for not completely reinventing yourself every time you play... Or is that just arranger manufacturers' responsibility?

OK OK I'll call Korg & aske them to make the Pa800 in RED too

Fran,
The 4 effects blocs are available during vox harmony. It was misleading at first, but the TC unit has it's own effects.

* ability to tweak from a computer GUI would be nice specially when you edit voices. But don't leave the Mac users out.

* I also miss YAMAHA's way of muting the auto accompaniment by pressing three adjacent keys on LHS. That's a nice feature I think.

* I also find 4 STS per style insufficient sometimes.

* voices switching as soon as the button is pressed (while playing) is sometimes a problem. If the voice change from the next note you press, that would be more convenient. This becomes particularly problematic when you need to press a fill, change the STS, and change the chord at the same beat. (fills have to be pressed exactly at the beat on KORGs to sound good)

* not being able to do tempo changes while programing styles is really inconvenient when you have an ending that slows down to rest. You have to painstakingly drag the MIDI notes to emulate the slowdown which is really cumbersome.

* Inability to have pitch bend on percussion tracks is also limiting when programming some hand drums. There's no way to emulate a strike immediately followed by a slide.

* Though KORG's way of switching from variation to fill is not as smooth as YAMAHA's, it does come handy sometimes. It could be more useful if one can switch between the tow modes of behavior and set the mode per each fill within the style setting.

* I don't know if it has improved in PA800, but on PA80, the break is useless. It should have more than bass drum and cymbal.

* 'Hold' assigned to the pedal is sometimes useful, but some other times a sustain with a decay is more useful. Maybe fast switching between these modes or assigning this in the voice/STS/etc. setting would help.

Thanks
Shiral

It's great that korg have asked for your comments .
I agree with jerry Trecoce , produce an arranger module (they used to make them a few years ago )
Must be fully midi compatable for use with midi accordions .
Size smaller than the Gem XP and the latest Ketron expander far to big )
Friendly logical O.S
Floppy Drive . USb terminals 2 (as the tyros )
Music finder lists
Right 1, Right2, Right3 (as Tyros)
Flip up / screen as (tyros)
Hard drive
most important fully range of song specific styles i.e Proper Glenn miller styles with all the correct intros, endings !! as per the styles produced by Technics !!!
good choir and female soprano opera singer voice (as per the Technics KN7000) never heard anything as good as this Technics feature .
Wav import of sounds
Top class organ sounds ( from Jazz to the mighty wurlitzer sound of the Blackpool tower ballroom organ !!
Sound technology in the Uk have proper sampled sounds from the Blackpool theatre organ ,and have produced them for the Yamaha T2 and they sound so real and life like it is unbelieveable !!

ability to work with EMc style conversion Software to convert Technics styles to Korg accurately with out having to spend hours tweaking the styles to sound right !!!
Plus all the usual things that you would expect a leading manufacturer to include on the products .

Regards to you all ........Giovanni

Hi Giovanni
I am afraid that sound samples of the Blackpool Wurlitzer are copyrighted and only 1 manufacture has the rights to them. The previous Blackpool Wurlitzer samples provided by Total Transformation Technology have pretty much vanished, as they do not have the rights to them. (According to reports? the Tower Team discarded the samples as not being of good enough quality, and they were later picked up by TTT)
Other Wurlitzer’s can be sampled without problems. (Providing you get the owners permission)

Bill