My Take On The Bickering On The Forum.......

I personally think that the ZONE is a very valuable forum for all all pro, semi pro, hobbyist, amateur or wanna-be musician and no one should have to undergo the disrespect or bashing that goes on here from time to time....if you don't like the topic, don't read or respond to it. There is nothing written that says that you have to read or respond to all posts.

If there are people here with anger and animosity toward other members, take it OFF THE BOARD and into private messages or email. Settle it between yourselves privately not on an open public forum. Handle it like men and not children and Nigel shouldn't have to appoint anyone to oversee what is being posted, as if he don't have anything else to do. I have a travel forum about Cozumel Mexico with about 3,500 members and would not put up with this type of activity on my forum. http://www.cozumel-hotels.net/yabbse/index.php
Why can't we all get along and just pull together to keep this forum what it was made for sharing our knowledge and our love for making music...please let's not destroy
this forum and the camaraderie that it brings together. Leave the hate behind or as I said before take it off the board and go private with all of the verbal abuse.
this is my email address in case anyone wants to voice anything at me..
tonyrome@prodigy.net.mx
Hope this doesn't offend anyone....
Thank You......

That's a pretty good take on things Tony.
It seems very logical.
However, like Paul Harvey says:
"Self Government wont work, without self discipline."


Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

Hi Tony. I agree with what you said, but to ask the membership to 'simply behave' might work in a utopian world , but the reality of the human condition throughout time, has always included contention & then unfortunately war, and the reason rules & laws are enacted to hopefully curb the later. I still stand by my opinion that this could have all been all avoided long ago if only the Synthzone 'rules of conduct' were enforced and acted on following repeated warnings of a permanent ban for future infractions. Tony, curious how you moderate your forum?

Scott

Dennis....Thank you for your post.....I agree with what you say....however "SELF DISCIPLINE" here is much like that elusive butterfly of love....if there were self discipline, we would not have these problems or be in this situation.....you like others are correct, but how do we help make this a better place to live????
Thanks again, I enjoy your demos.
TR



[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 09-29-2007).]

Hi Tony. I agree with what you said, but to ask the membership to 'simply behave' might work in a utopian world , but the reality of the human condition throughout time, has always included contention & then unfortunately war, and the reason rules & laws are enacted to hopefully curb the later. I still stand by my opinion that this could have all been all avoided long ago if only the Synthzone 'rules of conduct' were enforced and acted on following repeated warnings of a permanent ban for future infractions. Tony, curious how you moderate your forum?
Scott


Scott.....I know how you feel and you are correct about the rules of conduct...they are what guides us through the endless problems in the world....Myself, on my forum
would not tolerate any disrespect or verbal abuse to other members, I first give the abuser 2 weeks ban for 1st offence, 4 weeks ban for 2nd and the full Monty after that...
a permanent ban is sometimes needed to control the respect, dignity and decorum of the forum....I have 3,485 active members and don't have these type problems with verbal abuse or disrespect toward other members of the forum....I take pride in it being more like family and friends than strangers with something in common. There is no reason that the forum members can't get along with each other and respect and share other than the fact that THEY DON"T WANT TO....and if that is the case, leave these members to their on demise. Thanks for asking...
TR

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 09-29-2007).]

Sammy Davis Jr.:


“Real success is not on the stage, but off the stage as a human being, and how you get along with your fellow man.”



------------------
Larry
SynthZone Frapper

If you can't handle a dig, then top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.

Ian

Larry, A really class man ...I had the pleasure of meeting Sammy in Las Vegas and
sharing a stage with him and Buddy Rich in Hawaii with Don Ho.....Yes, he was a class act and treated all people with respect even though he went through some very hard racial times in his life time....Thank you for bringing back good memories and a valuable quote.
TR

Ian....There shouldn't have to be a situation where you have to go into one upsmanship again, we are into who struck john and mine is better than which id what put as all here in the first place....I'm sure that you have a better take on things than to promote give me a dig and I'll dig ya back school yard attitude....I've read some of your previous post and know that you have more to offer than this..thanks for responding....
TR

It's not a point of one-upmanship, Tony, but rather knowing when and how to respond to a dig...they do happen here occasionally, you know....unfortunately.

I'm all for peace, but not at the price of becoming a doormat.

Ian

Ok Ian......yes, you are correct some digs do happen, as digs go, however out and out
verbal abuse and disrespect and bringing to the forum personal attacks should not be permitted or accepted on this forum....take
it off the board and face each other through
emails and not subject anyone else to the
horse dung that gets shoveled around here from time to time by people that can't control their emotions and personal hatred for some of the other members of this forum.
We can all still learn from and teach each
other many things yet...let us do that and keep the hatred off here....thanks again for your contribution to this thread....
TR

I agree with you 100%, Tony.

Unfortunately some people do not want to take it off the board and into private e-mail...I think they get some vicarious thrill out of hurting someone publicly, or being a smart-ass show-off.

There seem to be a few long brewing feuds between some people on this forum...some of them here longer than I, and consequently, I don't know the reasons why things got that way.

Hopefully peace will reign again and for a much longer period of time.

Thanks for your great response.

Ian

If anyone's interested in how other forums handle personal abuse/insults/stupid topics etc etc, I belong to a video gaming forum (!) in Australia, where the majority of the members are young - from 14/15 upwards to my age (30-ish) and a couple older.

Anyway.

The forum is moderated by a number of long standing members appointed by the site owner.

When there is personal abuse or something really distasteful the following happens:

1. A moderator (or the site owner) identifies the culprit(s) and gives a warning.

2. if the warning is not heeded then either -

a. The thread is deleted

or
b. The offender is banned (usually for "life" depending on how serious the behaviour is and whether or not it's been a long standing problem.


Sometimes a thread deletion/locking AND a banning is handed out.

I must say, it's quite a swift and decisive punishment system - but fair.

So here's my point -

There is (usually) very little trouble in our forum and what trouble there is disappears fairly quickly BECAUSE the disciplines handed out are consistent, fast and, often, far reaching and permanent.

I guess it's a much smaller community here then the games forum, so "every member counts" so to speak, and granted, the forum members in that same forum are MUCH younger than many of the members on this forum, but I guess we've all found that chronological age doesn't always equal maturity.


I really feel that the stricter a forum is, the better it runs.


I must also point out though, that I've emailed Nigel a few times, and found him to be an intelligent, thoughtful and insightful man (typical Aussie - lol), and he's probably too busy with his career (in video games co-incidentally!) to feel he has to babysit this forum.

I can understand that.

2cents...

Hellboy,

Thank you for your intelligent & enlightening insights.

In addition to emails & telephone chats, I've also had the pleasure of meeting Nigel in person (Synthzone Jam San Jose,CA) and can confirm that he's everything you said: intelligent, thoughtful, and insightful, and real easy going nice guy (typical aussie) I also appreciate everything he's done for us with the General Arranger Forum, but it's OBVIOUS that his career & life contraints just don't allow the time required to keep some people here in line, especially because many of the fights are allowed to escalate for too long before Nigel finally has a chance to catch them.

I realize it's a time consuming job, but if Nigel doesn't have the time (or interest) to more closely monitor this forum, then I suggest it's time for him to appoint a 'neutral moderator(s)" (not me of course) to take on/share in this task.

Yes, we could (yet again) plead for people to simply behave and act civil, but that has 'never worked' for very long, always with the same few people back to misbehave again, sometimes merely a few days, or week or two later. It's obvious (at least to me) that strict enforcement of the rules already in place is needed, and of which needs to include, after initial warning, permanently banning repeat offenders, similar to what was outlined in the rules enforcement Tony Rome uses on his "Cozemel" internet forum.

In a true Utopian World, strict rule enforcement wouldn't be necessary, but it's time to "wake up" to the real world of PUBLIC forums, where just about anyone (with a verifible email address) can join & post on Synthzone.

I realize that "it's Nigel's gig" afterall (as Diki so well pointed out), and will accept whatever he decides to do, but that said, my future participation here will also be based in part on how future offending Synthzone member are dealt with.

Respectfully,

Scott

Hellboy.....Thank you for your participation
in this thread. You have brought out some good points, however, the size of the membership of the forum should not dictate the civility of the membership to it's members. The rules of conduct should maintain decorum from the membership, should that decorum be breached then the owner or moderator should exercise their powers of containment where ever that may lead. With all due respect to Nigel, as I have stated before, he should not have to be subjected to this behavior while giving us a place to reside also the membership in general should not have to put up with the disruption that is so blatant on this forum.
Nigel, I apologize if I seem to overstep
my bounds as a member of this forum, I also
understand that it is not my place to dictate policy, however we have lost a good deal of good members and it's about time that the EXEDOUS stopped.
TR

It still amaises me how little it takes for some people to show their A**! When there is a bad post of member music here, I assume one of a few senarios is happening:

1. The player is so moderately skilled, he/she isn't aware of the level of incompetence.

2. Individual ego is driving written comments (bragging) and mediocre performances. It's a self-centered attention issue, not a music issue.

Either way, I have a really good chuckle and wish the person doing the posting well. Members with experience and talent know the score. Negative comments are really not necessary for me. The poster may not have enough ability to even understand constructive criticism. And, if we're dealing with a marginal performance by a good person really trying to learn, the obvious thing to do is encourage.

Thanks, Tony, for a well reasoned approach to
understanding some really childish behavior.


And, as always, thanks goes to Nigel for the unselfish way he keept this thing going.


Russ

I'm afraid I've got to stand by my earlier comments...

For this forum to have any value, especially to visitors and new members, that may be inexperienced enough to actually take some of the posted demos seriously, it is our obligation to at least call a poor demo from a self-appointed 'expert' for what it is. Otherwise, WE start to look like idiots that can't recognize sh!t from shinola

I'm not really talking about the day-to-day things that get posted by most of the members, most of which A) are fine and B) are posted with a genuine desire to hear what other members think (good or bad, as long as it's constructive), but when a member takes on that mantle of 'expertise', or is VERY vocal in criticism either of others' works, or others' equipment, then their posted demos and advice should be up to the scrutiny and criticism that they give others...

The thought that, when we actually DO have a forum where amateurs, beginners AND professionals all hang out together (mostly civilly!), someone can post anything they feel like, claim they are some kind of professional 'expert', and none of us will say anything just doesn't sit right with me. We don't have to be vitriolic about it, but SOMETHING needs to be said....

Diki, I understand your opinion on this issue and don't necessarily disagree. I just do it a different way. Your dedication to the art form and willingness to post somewhat controversial but well articulated opinions is, in most part, a good thing.


Regards,


Russ

Mmmmm, tonight I made a grilled chicken, walnut, & apple salad. I enjoy eating it at my desk where I partake of Nigel's "haven for the musical minds" !
I don't care how anyone else does their forum - this place is home for me. Show a little respect, contribute and enjoy.
There is absolutely nthing wrong with the forum or the moderation. There are momentary lapses of judgement, but hey - that's life. Let's minimise the lapses and move on.

Reading this post from Tony Rome I think that it's time to came back to SZ home.
Cheers for ALL my friends here.
Chico

CHEERS and Bravo Chico......welcome home, I've missed you and your music...Hope you're feeling better.....

Hi Chico. Wow . . . what a terrific homecoming this is today to see you back, and also to see SZ vetrans DonM & Gary back posting here again more often as well.

I'm feeling more optimistic than ever now, that our Synthzone Gen Arranger forum will finally return as a truly supportive place where members share & support one another in what we ALL have in common: arranger keyboards and arranger keyboard produced music, irregardless of brand, make, model, or level of music and/or arranger expertise. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Scott

Dave....Well, I'm glad you enjoyed your salad....sounded like a good one, maybe if I ate more of those I wouldn't be so heavy.
I agree with you when you say we should show
respect, contribute and enjoy and also that there are lapses in judgement and that's also a part of life, however, we should all
learn from those "momentary lapses in judgement" that appear to have been all to frequent of late. Dave, not to prolong this
discussion, I value your posts, your music
and your knowledge and I think that you will have to agree that the disrespect and verbal abuse has escalated over the past few
months and has disrupted the forum. As good as the forum is, it can and should be better while exercising decorum from it's membership. I'm glad that you feel that this forum is like your home, mine also, hopefully, you will help to preserve the peace in our home. Now I'm going to try one of those salads you built. Thanks for your input. Peace
TR

Welcome back Chico it really is great to see you posting again.

Cheers,
Nigel

Russ....always a pleasure hearing for you...
thanks for your participation on this subject....We are all human and as such, we are all subject to the frails of being human. The good thing is that as humans, we
have the capacity to know right from wrong
and to own up to our errors and learn from them, when we ignore them and don't learn,
we move down the ladder of humanity. Insults and disrespect to each other do not
benefit any one but cause to promote more insults and disrespect, this behaviour is detrimental to the existence of the forum.
I agree with your take on the negative post
discouraging others to stay from posting
Remembering that we all started some where at a lesser level of competence and should
temper our criticism accordingly. Thanks again Russ, peace.
TR

Diki... Man you are on the money with this one, I agree, let's all be civil with or comments weather they be good or bad...there is a way to critique a demo or song posted by a member looking for honest
feedback and this should be foremost in the mind of the person critiquing the music post. Just be honest and fair while being civil....Thank you for your participation.
TR

Chico.. SO good to hear from you ... I hope you are well ....
t.

Sure Diki I agree. But the criticism needs to be given in a manner that indicates the critic also has a clue about what they are talking about. To simply say something is "bad" means nothing at all and shows no musical understanding. They could talk about keyboard performance and vocal tone, pitch and phrasing etc. Then that would actually show some thought and musical insight and actually could provide constructive feedback to the performer. Plus it may then not come across as seeming like a personal attack.

In all fairness, these negative critiques that sound like personal attacks don't happen to everybody; usually, only to those that have themselves committed the same offense. I think this is much more about a personality that a musical performance. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword". It's been that way for a long time and is likely to stay that way.

chas

...there's NO place like home
.......there's No place like home
..........There's NO place like home ......
*
Welcome home Chico !

Just let the ones who want to bicker go ahead and bicker. You'll soon find it's the same few involved every time. Don't comment. They are mostly doing it for attention. If they don't get it, maybe they will quit.
DonM

Don good to see you back in the fold .....how's the S900 working out for you so far? btw I still got Benton in my sites for Jan

I have never left. I just don't respond to the garbage. Love to have you come down!
The S900 is doing the job. There was some damage during shipping and George is replacing it for me. Should have the new one around Friday.
DonM

How true that is.

I posted this in the thread that got deleted but it went something like this. Even with all the pissing contests this is still the best forum around. There are a lot of interesting personalities here and none of them are short on opinions. That tends to keep things lively. Even though I don't post a lot, I'm on here several times everyday. I really look forward to it. In the words of Uncle Dave, it's home.

Ciao,

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

Hey Chico mi amigo, good to hear from you again.

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Hello friends.

I am truly happy with welcome wishes.
Thanks to all SZ friends for welcome msgs.
With my humble participation I want to collaborate with my knowledge about kbds, records and live performances.

God bless all
Chico

Chico's, back...how GREAT!~


Russ

Hello friends...

I've been lurking for a while. I grew weary of the bickering in previous months and gave myself some distance.

There is such a wealth of quality people and information on this site. Nigel continues to provide a top end quality forum on the net.

I don't think I can really say anything that hasn't been said before about the tensions on the site. IMO, its probably divided 60/40 between overly sensitive members and people who could've and should've found a less flammatory way to post their thoughts on others work.

Anyway, just thought I'd say hi and hope everyone is well and doing good work...

Regards-

One of the things I learnt when supervising people in my job was to find something I could praise and then point out the thing that I wanted the staff member to correct.

Worked for me.

Wasn't Thumpers mother that said,"if you can't say something nice don't say nuthin at all"

Cousin Ken

Bill and Chico:

Glad you guys made the return, I sure enjoy your music, and comments. Will be listening and reading.....pose

------------------
www.posemusic.com

Hey pose how come you didn't use your old forum name?

Actually, I think she said "If you can't play something nice, don't post nuthin' at all" after Thumper took arranger lessons for a while

Who the heck is Thumper?

More importantly, who's his mother? I mean, think about it. Who the heck knows who Whistler is?

chas

A delicacy in some countries.

Ian

I believe a Disney character??

Bambi is a 1942 animated feature produced by Walt Disney.

The main characters are Bambi, the young prince of the forest, his parents (the Great Prince of the forest and his unnamed mother), and his friends Thumper (a pink-nosed rabbit),..from wikipedia

I fully agree with you Bill.
While we are glad Nigel continues, I would like all of you to click once in while on the button at the bottom of each of these pages..

Fred
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=General+Arran ger+Keyboard+Forum

Funny notice by the way if you click on this link..


[This message has been edited by freddynl (edited 10-10-2007).]

Yeah, but how's your SHORT-TERM memory?


chas

Thanks!

You should sign this one

"Ian the cynical"

I cheated, I googled it!

What's up with the link ??

This is what I get

We have noted your attempt to hack this forum. Authorities will be notified if you persist.