My first gigs - gear questions

Hi,

After long months of work with my vocal teacher, I performed my first so-called gig during last New Year's day's night.

It wasn't really prepared (a friend's idea who made installed for me an old PSR keyboard) but was a encouraging experience, as people were apparently satisfied and enjoyed the hour I spent playing and singing (without mic, so, no risk .

Now, I'm working on much more prepared events, the first one being early May and the second one mid-July.

But I'm asking myself a lot of questions and I'd like to get the feedback from professional gigers.

For the first one, I'll have the opportunity to sing and play in a little restaurant. I'll sing while playing the accompaniment with an upright piano provided on the stage.

It will be "double stress" for me (singing and playing the piano in a public venue) so I'd like to eliminate most additional stress. In particular, I don't feel very comfortable playing and singing with a dynamic microphone in front of me and think it'll be easier to use a headset mic, being completely free (more over, I know from other people’s past gigs that positioning the mic boom is very hard because of lack of space on this stage). The standard mic used on this place is a classical SM58 and I'd like to get at least the same "level of sound's quality".

Q1) Do you think using an headset mic is a good idea in the previously explained context?

I studied my favourite mic manufacturer's web site (Shure) and identified two models that should fit my needs: WH30 and Beta 54. It seems that the Beta 54 is more sensitive than the WH30 but don't know if it may lead to problems with the piano's sound??

I'm also thinking about getting wireless mics and the fact that these models are available in wireless versions is a good point for me (I planning to purchase an ULX S4 system with probably a Beta 58A mic, for my second gig).

Q2) Your opinion on WH30 vs Beta 54 and between wireless vs wire models?

For my second gig, it's a completely different context: I'll play and sing for a 40-50 people friend's party with my own gear. I own a PSR 2000 keyboard and will use it for this gig. I'm planning to sing and play about 10 songs.

It will be a mix of MIDI playbacks, chords with auto-accompaniment and piano solos (depending on the song).

Concerning the PSR use, I'm far from being an expert and recently begun to use its mic features with an SM58. It sounds rather good but I'm not sure I configured it in the right way: I only activated the compressor and disable VH and effects as I was unable to get something usable.

Q3) Have you got some VH/mic settings recommendations for my PSR2000?

Q3bis) Is there a significant interest to use a better mic like Beta 58 or 87? I think wireless mics would be better to interact with the audience too...(I'll play POP and Disco songs, if it's of interest).

Also, maybe some people would like to sing with me.

Q3ter) How to manage multiple mics with a PSR? Bring a small mixer and connect it the PSR's input at Line level?

About PSR control, I own a good piano-like Roland pedal (DP-6) and would like to get a second one in order to control, for instance, the OTS+ feature (my goal is to change the style while playing).

Q4) Have you got any advices on the kind of pedal I should get for this?

I don't have any PA system.

Q5) Do you think PSR's own amp/speakers is enough for a 40/50 people audience?

Finally, I'll have to bring by car all my stuff and only have a keyboard stand (Quiklok double-X) with a mic boom.

I don't have any flight case nor "travelling" seat.

Q6) Any advices for PSR flight cases? Thomann.de is providing specific cases for all kind of keyboard, is somebody know if it's good and not too heavy?

Q7) Are there more portable stands than the one I use? I found K&M 18950 that seems easy to fold and transport. And about seats?

Q8) Any recommendation on sheet stands? (I'm having problems using PSR's one).

Okay, that's all for this time, thanks for your answers. If you have any additional advices, don't hesitate!!

Thanks.

Earl.

Hi,
I have good experience with headsets (I use a Shure WH20XLR not wireless).
If the audience is wondering, I can say "thousands of pilots and millions of telephonists can't be wrong".
About PSR 2000 mic setting. Try to eliminate feedback. First midboost, you tune the mid frequency, when you notice feedback, stop and cut (6 to 10 dB). Reduce Hi EQ a little and bass a little more.
Use compressor and gate if available (I have the 9000 pro).
About VH, depending to the kind of song, in case of high tuned songs (tenor) I would try something like "Men Choir" in case of low tuned, I would use settings with backing voices above, like women choir, CountryX etc.
Record your voice, play it back to the mic in (line position) and check all kinds of vocalist presets.
The only way to manage multiple mics with a PSR is a small mixer. Connect it with aux in, not mic in. If you don't have aux in, connect the PSR to the mixer line in.
For PSR control, a piano-like Roland/ Technics or Yamaha pedal will give maximum comfort, but a cheap switch is ok. too. Your feet may decide.
I don't think PSR's own amp/speakers is enough for a 40/50 people audience?
I used the build in PSR 8000 speakers for 30 old people but did insert a compressor (Alesis nanocompressor).
You may use a PA system. Easy to handle and easy to transport, the HK Audio XT. Very small, sounds very large, easy to transport, sounds like a good studio monitor speaker, no mid cut like cheap HiFi speaker, no mid boost like the usual PA systems.
I used the Thomann cases for a while. They are well but heavy (keyboard plus case 30 kg), therefore I changed to bags. It's cheaper too.
It's not easy to find the best answer to you, because we don't know where you are from.
A good global advice. Use the SPL vitalizer jack, makes a bad sound good and a good sound better. Go to your musicstore and ask for demonstration.
For sheet stands, use a professional sheet stand for orchestras, it's not cheap but reliable and able to hold a LARGE fake book with 1000 songs.

Regards RF

I have a Psr2000....Can I use 2 ( or 3 )Microphones and , via Mixer, go from Mixer directly to the Vocal Harmonizer?
Thanks for any advice

RonP

Head-sets are nice, but forget about dynamics, If you can't get away from the mic, dynamics are all but lost. Harmonizers are an interesting tool, they're also as easy to identify as lip-syncing.Other than the Throat Singers from Tibet (or where-ever) not too many people can sing in more than one pitch at one time, so why bother. If your voice is capable of pleasing an audience, then leave it alone (literally). You can become innundated with midi controlled toys, and you can end up being buried in the mix.
In my solo gigs, I use a drum machine for rhythm and accompanyment. Try the simple route, before things get to complicated.
just my thots..
http://members.shaw.ca/shboom

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...L

Yes you can use a mixer with multiple mic inputs. It helps to have matching mics, but not essential. If more than one person is singing at the same time, don't use the vocal harmonizer.
I find it's more believable on a lot of songs to use the simple vocal harmonies, such as duet, rather than the choirs. Use the harmonizer sparingly--it's easy to overdo it.
I find the factory preset mic e.q. works quite well with SM58.
I've tried just about every mic there is on the 2000 (and others). Most of the time you can e.q. any of them to sound good, but individual voices may sound better with certain mics. Only way is to try them out.
I tried a head-set mic that Gary Diamond loves, but couldn't get it to sound like I wanted for my voice. Gary sounds good on it though. I also missed the dynamics of moving away and closer to the mic, including the proximity effect.
DonM www.donmasonmusic.com

Thank you Don....I will use your advice..It sure is nice to know that we can get advice and help here

RonP

Hi All,

Thanks a lot for your answers. I think I'm going to get a headset mic but it probably won't be for me my "primary" mic (we'll see with the experience .

I'll try the mic and VH setting adviced, I'll tell you.

For the PA, which HK Audio model are you speaking about?

I don't know Vitalizer, I'll have on look on this.

Thanks for your answers.

Earl.

PS: UD and Scott, any advices?

Hi Earl: For uptempo contemporary pop & dance tunes where varying vocal volume & traditional vocal-mic techniques aren't required, a headset mic can be very convenient, but for vocal dynamics are essential, espeically those intimate ballads and torch songs, I strongly recommend learning how to utilize a standard mic mounted on a mic boom. Only a traditional mic allows you easily get close up and personal, as well as slowly or quickly pulling away from the mic as needed as well.




I recommend a mic with an adjustable polar pattern which is relatively small so you don't pick up to much ambient sound.




If you can afford going wireless, by all means do, Just remember that the UHF models offer less possibility of interference than VHF models do. I myself, when I eventually go wireless will go with a UHF model for this reason.




Sorry, no longer own the PSR2000 so can't help you there, but I somehow remember one of the preset default settings worked well for me.




I personally would go with the Beta 87 if you can afford it. Better clarity, and more detail? But, BEFORE purchasing any microphone, I STRONGLY recommend you audition in a store both models, as well as other brands/models in your affordable price range. Every mic sounds different with everyone as no two people sound the same. Our voice is like a hand print, individually unique. For this reason, Choosing a mic is possibly the most personal piece of music equipment you can buy.

Earl, sorry can't answer any MORE of your questions tonight, It's time for bed. Perhaps Uncle Dave and others will be able to answer your other many questions here. Good luck on your upcoming project and gigs.

Scott

Scott, what mic and boom are you using in the video of your San Francisco Chinese New Year "job"?

Thanks,
Tom

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Bigger is not always better

Hi,

Thanks Scott your advices. I'm now convinced that an headset mic is interesting but doesn't replace a standard one on all situations...

Concerning the Beta 87, I'm having a look on this. But which model would be recommended when using it on a mic boom just above a PSR 2000? I mean, there are two types, on Supercardioid (87A) and another Cardiod (87C). The later is recommended for people using in-ear monitors but I'm asking myself if when the mic is very close to the keyboard's speakers there is any risk of feedback with such a sensitive mic?

Thanks.

bye

PS: Shure is starting to deliver their new Wireless mic system, named SLX. It seems easier to use than the ULX series, at a less expensive price...

Earl,
Don't buy a mic by specs. LISTEN to everyone you are auditioning TYHROUGH the psr2000, if that's the way you will use it. The condenser mics will need phantom power too, so be aware of that little addition to your rig. You'll need some external power sourse to power the mic first if you go the condenser route.
I have had great success with the EV N/Dym series. The 757 and 767 are terrific stage mics and won't break the bank either.
They are hotter than most non-condenser mics, and rugged as all get out.

Earl,

Send me an email at gary_diamond@hotmail.com and I'll send you the mic set-up in a registration file that seems to work best for those currently performing with the PSR-2000.

Gary

EV N/Dyn D757.

It's an old workhorse I've been using for stage work for over 10 years. I particularly like it for for its very 'high' signal ouput to optimally drive my keyboard's built in vocalizer. Though I still like , I'm in the market for another hand held style performance mic which has a similar 'high' signal output level. Any recommendations? Which other mic brands (Audix, Sennheiser, AKG, etc) provide the high signal output as EV mics do. I'm looking for a smooth yet unhyped mic sound.

I know Donny Pesce uses an Sennheiser Evolution 885, Uncle Dave an EV 767, and Don Mason & Uncle Dave (also) use Shure Beta 87 condenser mics. Donny, I assume the Evolution 885 provides more than adequate signal output to optimally drive the built in harmonizer on your PSR2000 for clean/clear harmonies, right?

DonM and Uncle Dave: What mic pre-amp (phantom power) are you guys using to boost the Shure Beta 87's mic signal? I'm looking for a small as possible but quality sounding mic preamp box to take for live gigging. I want to be able to plug my condenser mic (AKG C3000) into the mic preamp (hopefully small enought to be placed/mounted on top of the keyboard) and then go from there directly into the Tyros' mic input jack.

Ok, I'm headed south for the weekend now to do a show in Pismo Beach and also meet up with Synthzone buddies Frank Bez, Paul Curzan, Eric Bott, and Richard Peck. See you all back here next week. - Scott

I use the SM 87 condenser mic when I use an external mixer with phantom power. Other times, I use a Shure SM58. I think that's a new mic that nobody knows much about.
I did try my friend Hank's Sennheiser and I like it a lot too, but can't find enough difference between the 58 and it to merit making a change.
DonM

The SM 58 has been out for a while Don. What's nice about the SM 58 is it's really rugged and holds up to abuse. You can drop it, kick it, spit on it (unintentionally of course ) use it in foul weather and windy conditions, expose it to extreme feedback or even dust or other airborne particles and it keeps on ticking. Being a Dynamic Mic it isn't near as delicate as a Condenser Mic can and oftentimes is.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-13-2004).]

Scott....First off, correction its the Senn model Evolution 855. After A/B'ing so many mics including your EV767 which I used for a few weeks also, I found that the Senn 855 has a much more Robust sound all around for my voice, giving me the searing vocals I need in my show. I suggest you do an A/B also. I highly recomend the Senn 855.



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www.donnypesce.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by keybplayer:
[B]The SM 58 has been out for a while Don. What's nice about the SM 58 is it's really rugged and holds up to abuse. You can drop it, kick it, spit on it (unintentionally of course ) use it in foul weather and windy conditions, expose it to extreme feedback or even dust or other airborne particles and it keeps on ticking. Being a Dynamic Mic it isn't near as delicate as a Condenser Mic can and oftentimes is.

Best regards,
Mike

I was being sarcastic, Mike, I've used SM58s on and off for 30 years.
DonM

My two cents on this one. I own the following three mics: EV 767, Shure Beta 58, Shure Beta 87. THe EV is the one with the hottest signal, but I prefer the Shure Beta 58 (I have the impression that the high frequency response is better), which is the one I use in most of my live performances. They are both dynamic, which means more simplicity and robustness. For Tyros owners: with these two mics, the mic gain knob (back pannel) is at 2/3 of max position. The condenser Beta 87 has better detail. I use it with an inexpensive (this is for Scott) tube preamp from Behringer http://www.behringer.com/MIC100/index.cfm?lang=ENG , which has phantom power included, and with the Tyros mic gain at 1/3 of the max.


-- José.

Hi All,

Following to this post and your answers, I'm back to the forum.

I'd like to thank you again for providing so useful information that helped me a lot!

Here is my feedback.

I finally had three gigs during the past months.

During the first one, in May in a small American restaurant in Paris (!), I only song two songs (one with a pianist, another one myself playing the piano), it was BIG stress but the overall result was rather good for a first time (no lyrics forgotten, no real piano mistakes). There were a big feedback during one of my performances but I kept in beat and it was okay!

The second one was held at a great venue in Paris. Wonderful room with a real stage, with sound engineer, lights, return, wireless mic...70 people were there. I also song two songs, again one with a pianist, another one with me playing the piano. Big stress on the first one, I wasn't sure to remember the lyrics and didn't start on time at the beginning... But I did me job correctly.
For the second one, I was playing the piano so it was different (not facing the people). Still some stress but I was very focused on my job and there wasn't any real problem. The audience acclaimed me at the end, it was really strong and I was so surprised!

The last one was this summer during a friend's birthday party (around 40 people). This time, it was completely different because I had the opportunity to do a "real full show" alone on the "stage". I brought my keyboard and the required stuff.
It begun bad because I didn't have the opportunity to sing at all during the week before the show and of course, my voice wasn't trained enough to sing without problems the songs I prepared...

I practiced anyway my voice in the afternoon, before a rehearsal and balance, but wasn't really confident.

At 10PM, my "show" begun. I again did 15 minutes vocal practices and, this time, it was going really better...

I started playing and singing some quiet ballads, the audience was half-listening (while eating . After some songs, some people came to sing with my (I brought a second mic with a stand): it was become more hot and interesting.

After a small break, I started singing more "dance" tunes and it worked fine. People requested songs to sing on, I had 5 floppies of MIDI files so it was great!

Near the end, the whole audience was singing with me in chorus on a song, it was fantastic...

I finally song during about two hours / two hours and half (really don't know after a so long night)...

So, in conclusion, I'm very satisfied my these experiences and I'm waiting to go back to the stage asap!!

On a technical point a view, here is the gear I bought and setup I defined):
- Mic: I now have a SM58, Beta58 and EV 767. The later is now my favourite (thanks to Scott). Good "sound" and output signal. The beta 58 is also not too bad. I use the SM58 for guest singers singing with me.
- I bought a small Yamaha mixer, very convenient for travelling.
- For the PA, I bought an Altec Lansing 622 (?) multimedia system but hadn't the opportunity to use it. I use PSR speakers for my own monitoring.
- For the case, I bought a keyboard bag at Thomann. Great and not too expensive.

Finally, I'm rather happy with my setup. I've got the project to buy a PSR3K, a wireless Beta 87 mic and a real PA and it will be perfect for me!!

Bye
Earl.

I already assumed you meant instead of
I looked it up The SM58 has been with us from 1968. Amazing, isn't it.
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drdalet

[This message has been edited by drdalet (edited 09-06-2004).]

Earl,

It sounds as if you're heading in the right direction. You will really love the PSR-3000.

Good Luck,

Gary

Thanks Gary, I hope so. I'm planning to get it before the end of the year...

Earl.